Trade Deadline Countdown Pre-Febuary Deadline

[bwgood77]

Speaking of trades, I just came across something that left me feeling a little sick..

Feb 2004:
Phoenix traded Tom Gugliotta, 2004 #1 (Kirk Snyder), 2010 #1 (Gordon Hayward), and a #2 (Alex Acker) for Keon Clark and Ben Handlogten

From post #5 here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1425341&p=45827950#p45827950

So I HAD to research, and yes....

Utah receives New York's 2010 first-round pick (unproteced) (Tom Gugliotta trade 021904) via Phoenix (Marbury trade) Phoenix receives a 2005 New York Knicks first-round pick. (010504 Marbury trade).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010draftnotes.html

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2010

So who says picks WAY in the future like our Miami pick in 2021 can't be valuable? When we traded Marbury in 2004 to NY we got an unprotected 2010 pick from NY, who we traded to dump Goog's contract.

So had we not dumped Goog's and Kurt Thomas' contracts, trading firsts in the process, and taken the same players (the teams who got the picks did), we would have Serge Ibaka and Gordon Hayward on the team.

Excellent.

I wonder if that Goog's dump had anything to do with Sarver getting ready to buy the team.....to avoid paying taxes they couldn't afford as a requirement Sarver buying.

[8on]

that is, of course, if Steve Kerr had picked Ibaka and Hayward. but they were at least available.

Sarver's not selling the team. We've had success despite him. I think we can again.

[dremill24]

I can*kind of* understand selling picks late in the 1st/2nd round in certain situations...but man who trades a top 10 pick for nothing tangible the way we did with Deng at #7?! That one still bothers the hell outta me lol

[carey]

Calderon? He passes the ball. He could help us win a game or two. He is 34, will be 35 next year with next year the last on his deal a $7.7M. He'd make a fine back up PG if we trade one of the Bledsoe/Knight duo to roll with a more traditional guard rotation.

[jredsaz]

It's tough to even think about the draft now that we fired our coach. Anyone coming in will want to do their best and have the team do its best. And if it Watson, he has already been in camp witThe these guys, he should have a good idea how and when to use each guy, even our bench. This may change everything, or it may do nothing.

Yeah. I'm not too worried about Watson coming in and winning games at a higher rate than Horny. We don't have the talent. Period. John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a .400 winning percentage.

[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

Lets not pretend we loved the Knight deal from the beginning. It was horrible then, and its horrible now. We only talked ourselves into liking Knight because of this great play at the start of the season, and because we had to for our own mental health. Giving up that pick and young players in Plumlee and Ennis too? Well thats just gravy.

IT had to be chased out of town because of the chaos he "caused". Dragic was crying, and the front office had to look for someone who was responsible (even though it was their fault). The suns fandom would riot had we kept the supposedly "ballhog" and napoleon complex IT over their homegrown hero Goran.

Personally id have neither of the three PG's. Draft picks are sexier because if they pan out, you get control of a young player for low cost for a long time. If you dont wanna take it, you can always trade it for good value. And really, Bled is good enough. The fiasco at last years trade deadline should have been a sign for the FO to ditch the two PG lineup. Now im just glad its gonna be forcibly gone because of our lights-out SG rook.

I'm with you and Frank on this. I've made no secret that I strongly disliked the Knight trade from the beginning. I don't disagree that Knight is probably a better fit next to Bledsoe because of his size and in that respect, McD did the right thing by getting your "star" player a team mate that is a better fit. But I never thought Knight was that guy. I didn't like how he got points, I didn't like his offense and I didn't like that he couldn't run an offense. I especially didn't like that he's coming off

And that's all my point is. At the time, McD did what he needed to do. I never claimed that Knight was our savior, or that I even like his play. But claiming NOW, that somehow we KNEW back then, that McD made a bad deal, is 100% "Hindsight". And by somehow trying to say that IT would be an All-Star were he still on the Suns is ridiculous, too, or that Knight wouldn't likely be better on the Bucks right now. Neither Ennis, nor Plumlee are tearing it up right now, either.

Again, all I'm saying is the Knight was almost an All-Star, and was a better fit than IT was on this team. Dragic forced McD's hand; and while he was able to get good value for Dragic, his haul for Knight wasn't great value. But the draft pick for IT was not a bad deal, and most here liked that deal.

But to act like we knew that getting Knight was a bad deal is MMQBing at it's best. And by trying to combine the deals, as well as the contract Knight signed, is disingenuous as well. They were two separate deals, and again, many were thrilled to get IT off this team. The fact we got a 1st Round Draft pick for the previously 60th overall, 5'10" PG, was viewed by many Suns' as good value.

Knight was also playing pretty well with Bledsoe, overall. In November he was 22pts, .400 3PT%, 6 assts. Since Bledsoe went down, he's fallen off. Why don't we wait to condemn him until Bledsoe is healthy?

I strongly felt it was the wrong trade to make and I know quite a few of us here do as well. Not so much because he's not a better fit next to Bledsoe but because of his style, overall fit with the team, his contract status, what we gave up in the trade for him and his potential. Everything considered, I think I was right to think it was a bad deal then. Sure he looked good early in the season and if anything that just made me think I was wrong about the trade but now that we are where we are, it just confirms what I felt about the trade in the beginning. I didn't think much of IT so I'm happy he's an all-star with the C's but I still don't think he's right for this team going forward.

[Weemsickew14]

Hopefully big Earl is more forgiving with Tony Buckets. He should be getting 30 min every night. He's the best basketball player we got skill wise. Sure hes not the best defender but neither is Booker and hes going almost 40 a night. If TJ made one mistake, Jeff would pull him. Hes young and needs playing time to develop!! He can become a star scorer if given consistent minutes. Our starting lineup should be:
Archie
Book
Tony Warren
PJ
Chandler
#FreeTJ

[RunDogGun]

It's tough to even think about the draft now that we fired our coach. Anyone coming in will want to do their best and have the team do its best. And if it Watson, he has already been in camp witThe these guys, he should have a good idea how and when to use each guy, even our bench. This may change everything, or it may do nothing.

Yeah. I'm not too worried about Watson coming in and winning games at a higher rate than Horny. We don't have the talent. Period. John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a .400 winning percentage.

We have a few guys with stuff to prove, and some solid vets, we could easily string together effort and hustle and catch a few teams napping on us, thinking similar to you about lack of talent. Just as losing is contagious, so is winning, and a change in leadership could easily change the balance of power in the win and loss column.

Now I'm not saying it will definitely change everything, but it could make an impact. Heck a few games where Mirza, Tucker and Booker get into a rhythm shooting threes, and we keep the turnovers down, and we could be a scary team.

[saintEscaton]

It's tough to even think about the draft now that we fired our coach. Anyone coming in will want to do their best and have the team do its best. And if it Watson, he has already been in camp witThe these guys, he should have a good idea how and when to use each guy, even our bench. This may change everything, or it may do nothing.

Yeah. I'm not too worried about Watson coming in and winning games at a higher rate than Horny. We don't have the talent. Period. John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a .400 winning percentage.

We have a few guys with stuff to prove, and some solid vets, we could easily string together effort and hustle and catch a few teams napping on us, thinking similar to you about lack of talent. Just as losing is contagious, so is winning, and a change in leadership could easily change the balance of power in the win and loss column.

Now I'm not saying it will definitely change everything, but it could make an impact. Heck a few games where Mirza, Tucker and Booker get into a rhythm shooting threes, and we keep the turnovers down, and we could be a scary team.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better

[DirtyDez]

How can we get one of Boston's picks via Brooklyn? Let's help out the Celts!

[RunDogGun]

Yeah. I'm not too worried about Watson coming in and winning games at a higher rate than Horny. We don't have the talent. Period. John Wooden couldn't coach this roster to a .400 winning percentage.

We have a few guys with stuff to prove, and some solid vets, we could easily string together effort and hustle and catch a few teams napping on us, thinking similar to you about lack of talent. Just as losing is contagious, so is winning, and a change in leadership could easily change the balance of power in the win and loss column.

Now I'm not saying it will definitely change everything, but it could make an impact. Heck a few games where Mirza, Tucker and Booker get into a rhythm shooting threes, and we keep the turnovers down, and we could be a scary team.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better

Dude, you're ugly.

[AtheJ415]

Thats a lot to give up for Hayward imo.

Yeah, initially I was going to leave Warren out of it, but I thought that wouldn't be enough. Trying not to be too homerish. We'd go with:

Bledsoe/FA/Cleveland pick
Booker/Bogdanvic
Hayward
Free Agent/Leuer (hopefully)/Len
Chandler/Len

I am not sure Utah does that trade. I think they have a nice core and Hayward is a known part of that core.

I'd do it, but I'd try to keep Archie. He isn't some proven commodity or that well thought of league wide. In one of the worst drafts ever he went late. He has more value to Phoenix than Utah. I'd try to sub in a future 2nd rounder instead.

Hayward is a beast. He's not the same type of player, but he's as good as we could reasonably expect Warren to become.

[AtheJ415]

BAM!

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240630/Tyson-Chandler-Not-Jumping-Ship-From-Suns

I'm not jumping ship,” Chandler said before Sunday's game. “If the organization decides to move me or something like that, then clearly that’s something that’s out of my control. But I came here and I came here for a reason.

“I thought it was a young, promising team, and I wanted to be a part of helping turn this around and go to the next level. I still feel like I’m capable of doing that, and I feel like this organization is capable of doing that. It’s just clearly some things have to change.

LOVE this guy.

It's tough to teach attitude, and he has the right one. If he can produce, I would rather keep another year, and get the super young under his wing.

It's easy to teach effort. And Tyson, until his recent rebounding phenomenon streak, was jogging his lazy ass up the court and barely jumping or moving for passes, all while playing the worst defense on the team (yes, the worst). He was our worst player all year for a reason, and that reason was he couldn't be bothered to play hard. Tyson can say all he wants, but unless he shows he can play with the effort he has the past 2 weeks or so for a full season, it falls on deaf ears to me.

[AtheJ415]

Calderon? He passes the ball. He could help us win a game or two. He is 34, will be 35 next year with next year the last on his deal a $7.7M. He'd make a fine back up PG if we trade one of the Bledsoe/Knight duo to roll with a more traditional guard rotation.

I'd rather trade for an expiring. Calderon does 2 things--re-sits Archie on the bench, and eats up cap space for another year while helping us in the long-run. He's a lose lose lose. If it's for Calderon, we better be getting more back in return like some type of pick.


The trade you make with NYK, if a pick isn't involved, is Markieff for Derrick Williams (having a good year, with an above average PER of 18.2 and some highlight real plays. Still young enough to improve.) and Kevin Seraphin (playing horrible ball and expiring), or else DWill and Sasha Vujacic and any of their low salary guys (whichever they want to dump).

DWill would be a more positive step forward than Calderon.

[Saberestar]

The demand for Tyson Chandler is low. Even with a rising cap this summer, Chandler, who is still owed $39 million over the next three years, is not a desirable option for many teams. Factor in a strong free-agent center class, and Chandler’s poor play has many teams wary of acquiring that contract.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/guide-to-the-trade-deadline--suns-011141015.html

[Donald_Trade]

Why would the Suns want to trade Chandler? He is a needed veteran and the extra cap space that it could generate is worth next to nothing.

Almost the entire NBA will have caproom, Phoenix already included but the amount of FAs is going to be as limited as always. Free Agency for the next 2-3 years will be all about overpaying players that are not worth it.

[m1chal]

Why would the Suns want to trade Chandler?

Because:
1. He's been playing much worse ball than expected, especially his defense is disappointing,
2. Now that we seem to be finally forced to do some rebuild his >30 years of age and declining production is out of place,
3. You can have chepaer veteran presence than M13 per year.

[Donald_Trade]

Why would the Suns want to trade Chandler?

Because:
1. He's been playing much worse ball than expected, especially his defense is disappointing,
2. Now that we seem to be finally forced to do some rebuild his >30 years of age and declining production is out of place,
3. You can have chepaer veteran presence than M13 per year.

The value per dollar is pointless.

The Suns salary cap situation is no problem regardless of paying Chandler. Besides Robin Lopez makes more than Chandler. Good luck finding a servicable veteran center without paying big or giving up assets.

Not to mention Chandler actually wants to be here and wants to take the young guys under his wing.

There is no reason for the Suns to trade Chandler unless someone gave them great value.

His actual play is hard to judge. Defense is a team job and on offense Tyson Chandler has never been a creator. It is hardly surprising that he does not stand out on a team struggling like this.

[NavLDO]

I'm with you and Frank on this. I've made no secret that I strongly disliked the Knight trade from the beginning. I don't disagree that Knight is probably a better fit next to Bledsoe because of his size and in that respect, McD did the right thing by getting your "star" player a team mate that is a better fit. But I never thought Knight was that guy. I didn't like how he got points, I didn't like his offense and I didn't like that he couldn't run an offense. I especially didn't like that he's coming off

And that's all my point is. At the time, McD did what he needed to do. I never claimed that Knight was our savior, or that I even like his play. But claiming NOW, that somehow we KNEW back then, that McD made a bad deal, is 100% "Hindsight". And by somehow trying to say that IT would be an All-Star were he still on the Suns is ridiculous, too, or that Knight wouldn't likely be better on the Bucks right now. Neither Ennis, nor Plumlee are tearing it up right now, either.

Again, all I'm saying is the Knight was almost an All-Star, and was a better fit than IT was on this team. Dragic forced McD's hand; and while he was able to get good value for Dragic, his haul for Knight wasn't great value. But the draft pick for IT was not a bad deal, and most here liked that deal.

But to act like we knew that getting Knight was a bad deal is MMQBing at it's best. And by trying to combine the deals, as well as the contract Knight signed, is disingenuous as well. They were two separate deals, and again, many were thrilled to get IT off this team. The fact we got a 1st Round Draft pick for the previously 60th overall, 5'10" PG, was viewed by many Suns' as good value.

Knight was also playing pretty well with Bledsoe, overall. In November he was 22pts, .400 3PT%, 6 assts. Since Bledsoe went down, he's fallen off. Why don't we wait to condemn him until Bledsoe is healthy?

I strongly felt it was the wrong trade to make and I know quite a few of us here do as well. Not so much because he's not a better fit next to Bledsoe but because of his style, overall fit with the team, his contract status, what we gave up in the trade for him and his potential. Everything considered, I think I was right to think it was a bad deal then. Sure he looked good early in the season and if anything that just made me think I was wrong about the trade but now that we are where we are, it just confirms what I felt about the trade in the beginning. I didn't think much of IT so I'm happy he's an all-star with the C's but I still don't think he's right for this team going forward.

Understood, and why I said 'many' or 'most', not 'all', when making my assertion. I'm sure there were quite a few fans that had a bad feeling about the trades, or thought Knight was 'over-hyped' when we traded for him. All I was saying was that nobody knew for sure that this is how things would workout, and honestly, Knight has more 'good' games with Bledsoe, than 'poor' games with Bledsoe, so we still do not know for a fact, that Knight won't end up being a good fit.

But mostly, my point was that at the time IT was traded, roughly 75% of the fans were 'thank the heavens, IT is traded' and now? It's basically swung the other way around, where more fans are acting like we should've kept IT, vice trading him.

My point? This wasn't aimed at fans that didn't like it from the beginning, it's aimed at those that look back and say: "Yeah, I knew it was a mistake, we should have kept IT." Because that wasn't even CLOSE to the sentiment on these forums, and if we go back and look at the threads/posts from back then, you will see VERY few fans who thought keeping IT was the better move than trading him.

[RunDogGun]

Speaking of trades, I just came across something that left me feeling a little sick..

Feb 2004:
Phoenix traded Tom Gugliotta, 2004 #1 (Kirk Snyder), 2010 #1 (Gordon Hayward), and a #2 (Alex Acker) for Keon Clark and Ben Handlogten

From post #5 here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1425341&p=45827950#p45827950

So I HAD to research, and yes....

Utah receives New York's 2010 first-round pick (unproteced) (Tom Gugliotta trade 021904) via Phoenix (Marbury trade) Phoenix receives a 2005 New York Knicks first-round pick. (010504 Marbury trade).

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010draftnotes.html

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2010

So who says picks WAY in the future like our Miami pick in 2021 can't be valuable? When we traded Marbury in 2004 to NY we got an unprotected 2010 pick from NY, who we traded to dump Goog's contract.

So had we not dumped Goog's and Kurt Thomas' contracts, trading firsts in the process, and taken the same players (the teams who got the picks did), we would have Serge Ibaka and Gordon Hayward on the team.

Excellent.

I wonder if that Goog's dump had anything to do with Sarver getting ready to buy the team.....to avoid paying taxes they couldn't afford as a requirement Sarver buying.

I've brought up the Goog's trade many times. As far as Ibaka, we could have picked him at 15 instead of Lopez, so we can't really cry about not getting him, for we passed on him 11 picks earlier. Now trading three unconditional picks...that was dumb, and shows that we have had dumb moves by previous FOs.

As far as speculating to buying requirements...none of us will probably ever know.