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Ranking the best young core's in the League right now

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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#41 » by Zelaznyrules » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:10 am

batsmasher wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:And while his defense is scary bad at times, I think it's all fixable.

I don't buy it's a lack of twitch or effort or slow feet or anything like that; he falls for every pump fake and he's indecisive in PnR situations and with his defensive rotations. But with his label as a pure shooter, I think it's clear no one has really focused on developing him defensively. Warren, for similar reasons, was just as bad but this past season he finally showed significant improvement there. Devin will never be a lockdown defender but I expect him to at least be an average team defender, while continuing to display his ability to make the occasional highlight chase-down block.

Also, if you're one of those that tends to devalue the mid-range game, consider his free throws. He gets to his shooting point so quickly that he's already drawing almost 6 free throws per game and that's without an understanding of how to work the referees. He's just doing this naturally, he's not even looking for contact but players keep thinking they can block that shot and all they can find is his wrist.

Booker's efficiency numbers aren't pretty but IMO they become less of an issue when you consider his age, the defensive attention he received because of a lack of talent around him and the fact that he was hampered by that turf toe/ankle for much of the season. And the year before, as the youngest rookie in the game, he had even less talent around him and had to adjust to playing with Knight for part of the season while also having to adjust to running the offense at times. These things aren't revealed by stats and while some people, I'm sure, will write them off as excuses, they'd be quite wrong to do so IMO.


The same can be said for Ulis, re: stats. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NBA defender. Sure, he pressures like crazy and you could argue that's why he gets beat so easily. You could also argue his lack of weight is hurting him heavily (it definitely is - needs at least 15-20lbs more because of his limiting frame). To see him figuring it all out given how far away he is at this time is why I'm not high on in. Then you add in the shooting struggles and it becomes a much harder sell.


Maybe he doesn't but I don't think he looked all that that hot as a defender his first year at Kentucky either. And remember, his second year there, he was not just the SEC Player of the Year, he was also the SEC Defensive Player of the Year. He needs to fill out and get stronger and many of his problems will disappear. Maybe he can't get much stronger but that's a wait and see for me.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#42 » by Mattya » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:16 am

DirtyDez wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:There's only 4 teams worth ranking; Sixers, Wolves, Bucks and Suns. Phoenix may have the deepest talent down the line but Philly has legit superstar star talent. Simmons is the next Magic and Embiid is the best big in the game at 100%. Fultz fits perfectly.

Giannis is the best player overall and Maker has upside. Towns/Wiggins offensively is hard to beat.

Sixers
Bucks
Suns/Wolves - Towns will put up numbers but will never have a Duncan/KG effect

Probably underrating the Nuggets if Murray becomes something.


quick to anoint Sixers players who haven't even played an NBA game but not KAT?

second year stats:

KG: 17 ppg/8 rpg/3 apg/2.6 bpg 50% fg
TD: 21.7 ppg/11.4 rpg/2.4 apg/2.5 bpg 50% fg
KAT: 25.1 ppg/12.2 rpg/2.7 apg/1.3 bpg 54% fg AND .37% 3fg

and Embiid is still a relatively big IF. a 7 footer playing in only 12.6% of games in 3 year is reason for concern.


Everyone would take Towns over Embiid based on durability but Embiid is on another level as a complete player. Cousins was putting up better scoring numbers than Duncan/KG but nobody is confusing their impact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theringer.com/amp/p/8e14d8e954c0


You are selling Towns efficiency on offense very very short here if you are comparing his offense to Towns. Cousins and Embiid are only dreaming of being the offensive options Towns is currently and they are both older than KAT. His eFG last season was 57.6% on a usage of 27.5. Embiid and Cousins have never sniffed that. The last 45 games(more games than Joel Embiid even played) of the season KAT was putting up 28 ppg on roughly 60'40/85.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#43 » by DirtyDez » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:53 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:
quick to anoint Sixers players who haven't even played an NBA game but not KAT?

second year stats:

KG: 17 ppg/8 rpg/3 apg/2.6 bpg 50% fg
TD: 21.7 ppg/11.4 rpg/2.4 apg/2.5 bpg 50% fg
KAT: 25.1 ppg/12.2 rpg/2.7 apg/1.3 bpg 54% fg AND .37% 3fg

and Embiid is still a relatively big IF. a 7 footer playing in only 12.6% of games in 3 year is reason for concern.


Everyone would take Towns over Embiid based on durability but Embiid is on another level as a complete player. Cousins was putting up better scoring numbers than Duncan/KG but nobody is confusing their impact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theringer.com/amp/p/8e14d8e954c0


agreed about Embiid, but it's hypothetical at this point. I wasn't saying Towns has Duncan/KG impact, but there certainly is more evidence that he's closer to attaining such a level compared to someone who hasn't played in the NBA yet as becoming the next Magic Johnson.


You got me. He's the next "Pistol"...

I think that with the Simmons/Fultz additions they could probably make the playoffs without Embiid considering Saric, Covington and Holmes are pretty good players and Brett Brown can coach. As the Ringer article indicated though, they're a juggernaut with Embiid on the court. I think it'll be Philly vs Boston by 2019 if nobody else goes down.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#44 » by sunsbg » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:35 am

All listed teams except the Suns are almost certain to make the playoffs, so we will be adding better talent in the following drafts. Just draft/trade for one of Ayton/Bamba next year and the Suns are pretty much equal if not better for the future than all those teams.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#45 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:37 am

I wouldn't swap our position as long we execute the end of our game plan correctly.

Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Denver are probably done for top 10 picks this cycle.

I think we have one more elite prospect to come in 2018 to finish it off and make us the equal of any of them (hopefully).

Drafted Big 3 (on rookie contracts):
Booker, Jackson, 2018
Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
Giannis, Parker, Maker
Towns, Wiggins, Mohammad
Jokic, Murray, Harris
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#46 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:33 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I wouldn't swap our position as long we execute the end of our game plan correctly.

Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Denver are probably done for top 10 picks this cycle.

I think we have one more elite prospect to come in 2018 to finish it off and make us the equal of any of them (hopefully).

Drafted Big 3 (on rookie contracts):
Booker, Jackson, 2018
Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
Giannis, Parker, Maker
Towns, Wiggins, Mohammad
Jokic, Murray, Harris


I don't know how you can think that none of Bender, Chriss, Warren or Ulis is "the equal" of Maker, Muhammad or Harris for the purposes of such a list...
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#47 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:07 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:I wouldn't swap our position as long we execute the end of our game plan correctly.

Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Denver are probably done for top 10 picks this cycle.

I think we have one more elite prospect to come in 2018 to finish it off and make us the equal of any of them (hopefully).

Drafted Big 3 (on rookie contracts):
Booker, Jackson, 2018
Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
Giannis, Parker, Maker
Towns, Wiggins, Mohammad
Jokic, Murray, Harris


I don't know how you can think that none of Bender, Chriss, Warren or Ulis is "the equal" of Maker, Muhammad or Harris for the purposes of such a list...


Especially with the unknown of what that 2018 pick ends up being.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#48 » by Cutter » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

#4 looks about right for Phoenix as it stands now. We will have something special going on if the young Suns are looked at as being a Top 2 core at the end of next season. That means multiple guys improved significantly and one player, Booker maybe, had a breakout season and looms large on the NBA radar.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#49 » by JMac1 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:48 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown


That is how I look at it too. CORE was the word. Not one player or two.

Potential

1. Minny
2. Milwaukee
3. Phoenix
4. Philly purely on potential....dudes haven't played yet
5. Sac
6. LAL
7. Bos
8. Denver

Jokic is worthless defensively.....less than Booker by a mile. I'm not sold on him one bit. He is old school.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#50 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:53 am

One thing I didn't realise was Embiid is eligible for a 4-5 year extension and 76ers have to give it to him or someone else will. If that goes wrong it could be a major problem for them.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#51 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:00 am

Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#52 » by ATTL » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:04 am

MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


If they had their picks they'd be right there. Right now they have role players surrounding Russell. Russell may grow into something.
Luckily they only owe one more pick.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#53 » by DirtyDez » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:19 am

MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


What's brewing is Boston getting the #1 pick again.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#54 » by NTB » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:11 am

MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


Really? Goodwin? I don't understand the love for him.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#55 » by TOO » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:11 am

JMac1 wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown


That is how I look at it too. CORE was the word. Not one player or two.

Potential

1. Minny
2. Milwaukee
3. Phoenix
4. Philly purely on potential....dudes haven't played yet
5. Sac
6. LAL
7. Bos
8. Denver

Jokic is worthless defensively.....less than Booker by a mile. I'm not sold on him one bit. He is old school.


SMH, you need to watch more Jokic. Just because he's not the most athletic guy doesnt mean he doesn't defend. And he's certainly not old school, dude can do everything on the court but jump high. I hope one day Booker can put up a 26PER like Jokic did this season, but that will probably never happen. Jokic is a monster.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#56 » by TOO » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:12 am

NTB wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


Really? Goodwin? I don't understand the love for him.


Rondae? Meh, DLo? Meh, Allen is unknown, LeVert looks solid, Goodwin is a nobody. Brooklyn is bad, like really really bad.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#57 » by Zelaznyrules » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:13 am

NTB wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


Really? Goodwin? I don't understand the love for him.


I thought it was sarcasm but I didn't know for sure. So I figured I'd let someone else test the waters. Given that I think that's a very weak core and given that I almost always agree with MrM, I'm still leaning towards sarcasm.
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#58 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:31 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:
NTB wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


Really? Goodwin? I don't understand the love for him.


I thought it was sarcasm but I didn't know for sure. So I figured I'd let someone else test the waters. Given that I think that's a very weak core and given that I almost always agree with MrM, I'm still leaning towards sarcasm.

Zelazny, you get me :lol:

I was torn on green fonting it. I like the legs it got without it. I think I should've put Archie 1st.
SHAZAM!

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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#59 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:33 am

TOO wrote:
NTB wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Are we sure we aren't sleeping on the Nets in this conversation?
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
D'Angelo Russell
Jarrett Allen
Chris LeVert
Archie Goodwin

Something might be brewing in Brooklyn.


Really? Goodwin? I don't understand the love for him.


Rondae? Meh, DLo? Meh, Allen is unknown, LeVert looks solid, Goodwin is a nobody. Brooklyn is bad, like really really bad.


HOW DARE YOU!!!!!
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Re: Ranking the best young core's in the League right now 

Post#60 » by TOO » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:04 am

I'm not an Arizona fan, I don't fall under that spell. :D

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