Game 73: Boston Celtics (53-19) @ Phoenix Suns (35-37) | Mar 26 | 7:00 PM

[sunsbg]

More of the same if we play OKC in 1st round. As I said previously after some of the recent wins, that got a few dreaming about championship, these teams are still at least two levels above the Suns. They play a different type of basketball both offensively(no ISO bs) and defensively. Thinking Suns will be a contender in next few seasons with aging ISO star(s) is laughable.

[Saberestar]

More of the same if we play OKC in 1st round. As I said previously after some of the recent wins, that got a few dreaming about championship, these teams are still at least two levels above the Suns. They play a different type of basketball both offensively(no ISO bs) and defensively. Thinking Suns will be a contender in next few seasons with aging ISO star(s) is laughable.

Our ISO plays aren't the problem.

The Thunder play ISO for Shai multiple times per game. And Tatum&Brown play ISOs for the Celtics.

KD&Book
Shai&Jalen W
Tatum&Brown

Now look at their teammates. Yeah, that's the difference. From 3 to 10 the Celtics and Thunder have better players.

[sunsbg]

More of the same if we play OKC in 1st round. As I said previously after some of the recent wins, that got a few dreaming about championship, these teams are still at least two levels above the Suns. They play a different type of basketball both offensively(no ISO bs) and defensively. Thinking Suns will be a contender in next few seasons with aging ISO star(s) is laughable.

Our ISO plays aren't the problem.

The Thunder play ISO for Shai multiple times per game. And Tatum&Brown play ISOs for the Celtics.

KD&Book
Shai&Jalen W
Tatum&Brown

Now look at their teammates. Yeah, that's the difference. From 3 to 10 the Celtics and Thunder have better players.

Suns system is force ISO with KD and Booker ,which we know leads to a lot of TOs, and some 3s. Celtics system is force 3s and some ISO from Tatum and Brown. Players like Allen and Royce will fit pretty well on that team. The personnel matters of course but that's where a good FO comes into play. Bottom line, Suns a few levels below teams like Celtics and OKC and there is no easy way for that to change in near future.

[Hitachi77]

More of the same if we play OKC in 1st round. As I said previously after some of the recent wins, that got a few dreaming about championship, these teams are still at least two levels above the Suns. They play a different type of basketball both offensively(no ISO bs) and defensively. Thinking Suns will be a contender in next few seasons with aging ISO star(s) is laughable.

Our ISO plays aren't the problem.

The Thunder play ISO for Shai multiple times per game. And Tatum&Brown play ISOs for the Celtics.

KD&Book
Shai&Jalen W
Tatum&Brown

Now look at their teammates. Yeah, that's the difference. From 3 to 10 the Celtics and Thunder have better players.

Suns system is force ISO with KD and Booker ,which we know leads to a lot of TOs, and some 3s. Celtics system is force 3s and some ISO from Tatum and Brown. Players like Allen and Royce will fit pretty well on that team. The personnel matters of course but that's where a good FO comes into play. Bottom line, Suns a few levels below teams like Celtics and OKC and there is no easy way for that to change in near future.

While I don’t really disagree, 2 years ago an 8 seed beat the Celtics ass, and also beat the Bucks ass, the two finals favorites going into the playoffs. Last year a 5 seed Mavs team got to the finals fairly easily, and the Celtics never had to play a team seeded higher than 4.

And I get it, that Heat team was the polar opposite of us in terms of mental toughness, and they have the best coach in the league. But the point is crazy stuff happens pretty much every year, very different from what it used to be. And while it’s obvious that the odds are against us to even make the playoffs (win 2 playin games), there just isn’t that bulletproof team sitting out there. The closest thing would be the Celtics but they’ve proven to be capable of solid choke jobs. And OKC is unproven in the playoffs. And after that, you have only good teams left, not great.

[sunsbg]

While I don’t really disagree, 2 years ago an 8 seed beat the Celtics ass, and also beat the Bucks ass, the two finals favorites going into the playoffs. Last year a 5 seed Mavs team got to the finals fairly easily, and the Celtics never had to play a team seeded higher than 4.

And I get it, that Heat team was the polar opposite of us in terms of mental toughness, and they have the best coach in the league. But the point is crazy stuff happens pretty much every year, very different from what it used to be. And while it’s obvious that the odds are against us to even make the playoffs (win 2 playin games), there just isn’t that bulletproof team sitting out there. The closest thing would be the Celtics but they’ve proven to be capable of solid choke jobs. And OKC is unproven in the playoffs. And after that, you have only good teams left, not great.

I can also agree there is 1.025% chance(though bookies say less) Suns win a championship this season. Let's stay positive.

[Saberestar]

More of the same if we play OKC in 1st round. As I said previously after some of the recent wins, that got a few dreaming about championship, these teams are still at least two levels above the Suns. They play a different type of basketball both offensively(no ISO bs) and defensively. Thinking Suns will be a contender in next few seasons with aging ISO star(s) is laughable.

Our ISO plays aren't the problem.

The Thunder play ISO for Shai multiple times per game. And Tatum&Brown play ISOs for the Celtics.

KD&Book
Shai&Jalen W
Tatum&Brown

Now look at their teammates. Yeah, that's the difference. From 3 to 10 the Celtics and Thunder have better players.

Suns system is force ISO with KD and Booker ,which we know leads to a lot of TOs, and some 3s. Celtics system is force 3s and some ISO from Tatum and Brown. Players like Allen and Royce will fit pretty well on that team. The personnel matters of course but that's where a good FO comes into play. Bottom line, Suns a few levels below teams like Celtics and OKC and there is no easy way for that to change in near future.

What I meant is that KD and Book and their occasional ISOs actions aren't the issue here. It's the players next to them.

Just imagine for a second KD and Book with teammates like Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Porzingis, Al Horford, Pritchard....

And what about next to Holgrem, Hartenstein, Dort, Caruso, Wallace...

That's the biggest diference. KD and Book are fine as your two best players on any roster.

We made a mistake trading for Beal because he has been much worse than expected and that trade puts us in a tough situation because of his NTC and constant injuries.

[sunsbg]

What I meant is that KD and Book and their occasional ISOs actions aren't the issue here. It's the players next to them.

Just imagine for a second KD and Book with teammates like Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Porzingis, Al Horford, Pritchard....

And what about next to Holgrem, Hartenstein, Dort, Caruso, Wallace...

That's the biggest diference. KD and Book are fine as your two best players on any roster.

We made a mistake trading for Beal because he has been much worse than expected and that trade puts us in a tough situation because of his NTC and constant injuries.

Suns won't have good role players targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc. which you've been a big fan of. Dunn was basically a steal and he has his own flaws being a streaky shooter who can't hit FTs.

[MrMiyagi]

Preview of our Round 1 matchup

[Saberestar]

What I meant is that KD and Book and their occasional ISOs actions aren't the issue here. It's the players next to them.

Just imagine for a second KD and Book with teammates like Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Porzingis, Al Horford, Pritchard....

And what about next to Holgrem, Hartenstein, Dort, Caruso, Wallace...

That's the biggest diference. KD and Book are fine as your two best players on any roster.

We made a mistake trading for Beal because he has been much worse than expected and that trade puts us in a tough situation because of his NTC and constant injuries.

Suns won't have good role players targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc. which you've been a big fan of. Dunn was basically a steal and he has his own flaws being a streaky shooter who can't hit FTs.

Are you comparing KD to Beal? Lol.

We would be much better with Butler than Beal, look at his performance with the Warriors. Like I said Beal with his NTC and his bad production it’s the biggest problem (not the only one) for our 35-38 record.

We have some good role players. Royce O'Neale is a good role player. Tyus is a good backup PG. We have Dunn who is young starting SF. But we needed Beal to play much better and Nurkic needed to be a solid starting C. Those two as our 3rd and 4th best players failed badly.

[sunsbg]

Suns won't have good role players targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc. which you've been a big fan of. Dunn was basically a steal and he has his own flaws being a streaky shooter who can't hit FTs.

Are you comparing KD to Beal? Lol.

We would be much better with Butler than Beal, look at his performance with the Warriors. Like I said Beal with his NTC and his bad production it’s the biggest problem (not the only one) for our 35-38 record.

We have some good role players. Royce O'Neale is a good role player. Tyus is a good backup PG. We have Dunn who is young starting SF. But we needed Beal to play much better and Nurkic needed to be a solid starting C. Those two as our 3rd and 4th best players failed badly.

Where do you see me comparing KD and Beal ? KD was an overpay like Beal though a better player obviously. Overpaying in trades will lead to lack of depth is all I'm saying. It's an incompetent FO and being a contender in the future looks rather bleak because of that.

[Saberestar]

Suns won't have good role players targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc. which you've been a big fan of. Dunn was basically a steal and he has his own flaws being a streaky shooter who can't hit FTs.

Are you comparing KD to Beal? Lol.

We would be much better with Butler than Beal, look at his performance with the Warriors. Like I said Beal with his NTC and his bad production it’s the biggest problem (not the only one) for our 35-38 record.

We have some good role players. Royce O'Neale is a good role player. Tyus is a good backup PG. We have Dunn who is young starting SF. But we needed Beal to play much better and Nurkic needed to be a solid starting C. Those two as our 3rd and 4th best players failed badly.

Where do you see me comparing KD and Beal ? KD was an overpay like Beal though a better player obviously. Overpaying in trades will lead to lack of depth is all I'm saying. It's an incompetent FO and being a contender in the future looks rather bleak because of that.

In the sentence "targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc."

Well, I just say that we need to keep building around KD and Book putting better defensive/active players around them.

Gillespie, Royce, Cody Martin, Dunn and Oso fits nicely and we can add to them in the summer.

[sunsbg]

In the sentence "targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc."

Well, I just say that we need to keep building around KD and Book putting better defensive/active players around them.

Gillespie, Royce, Cody Martin, Dunn and Oso fits nicely and we can add to them in the summer.

All these players will get exposed in the playoffs unfortunately. Gillespie for being undersized and unathletic. Royce is just ok nothing special, a streaky shooter. Martin is just someone who plays with energy, not even a 3&D, just D. Dunn is better but kinda similar, can't shoot FTs. Oso can't shoot and is undersized. Teams will take advantage in the playoffs of their weaknesses more than they do in a regular season game. Every asset to make some good deal was burned in KD and Beal trades. I don't know how you expect big improvement in role player additions. Wishful thinking.

[SkyBill40]

Boston played without Tatum.

Suns played without Beal. It cancels out both players. We shouldn’t be getting dominated after our excellent performances against Cavs & Bucks.

Gotta disagree here. In no way does Beal's absence cancel out their missing of Tatum. NO WAY. We would have been smoked by BOS regardless given how lackadaisical we played in stretches. Doesn't help that Budenholzer failed to read the flow of the game several times and make appropriate substitutions sooner. I felt like I was watching a Williams or Vogel led team.

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[sunsbg]

Boston played without Tatum.

Suns played without Beal. It cancels out both players. We shouldn’t be getting dominated after our excellent performances against Cavs & Bucks.

Gotta disagree here. In no way does Beal's absence cancel out their missing of Tatum. NO WAY. We would have been smoked by BOS regardless given how lackadaisical we played in stretches. Doesn't help that Budenholzer failed to read the flow of the game several times and make appropriate substitutions sooner. I felt like I was watching a Williams or Vogel led team.

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Almost all of SRB4G posts these days are sarcasm.

[SkyBill40]

Suns played without Beal. It cancels out both players. We shouldn’t be getting dominated after our excellent performances against Cavs & Bucks.

Gotta disagree here. In no way does Beal's absence cancel out their missing of Tatum. NO WAY. We would have been smoked by BOS regardless given how lackadaisical we played in stretches. Doesn't help that Budenholzer failed to read the flow of the game several times and make appropriate substitutions sooner. I felt like I was watching a Williams or Vogel led team.

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Almost all of SRB4G posts these days are sarcasm.

Maybe he should have the green font sent by default, no?

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Are you comparing KD to Beal? Lol.

We would be much better with Butler than Beal, look at his performance with the Warriors. Like I said Beal with his NTC and his bad production it’s the biggest problem (not the only one) for our 35-38 record.

We have some good role players. Royce O'Neale is a good role player. Tyus is a good backup PG. We have Dunn who is young starting SF. But we needed Beal to play much better and Nurkic needed to be a solid starting C. Those two as our 3rd and 4th best players failed badly.

Where do you see me comparing KD and Beal ? KD was an overpay like Beal though a better player obviously. Overpaying in trades will lead to lack of depth is all I'm saying. It's an incompetent FO and being a contender in the future looks rather bleak because of that.

In the sentence "targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc."

Well, I just say that we need to keep building around KD and Book putting better defensive/active players around them.

Gillespie, Royce, Cody Martin, Dunn and Oso fits nicely and we can add to them in the summer.

While I do agree with you on the premise of adding around what we have because we obviously need more key pieces to address positional issues, I'm curious as to how we'll accomplish this without assets if we're keeping KD?

Acknowledging that KD has been truly amazing and we'd be obviously worse without him, but absent of utilizing KDs' value in a trade, what other legitimate assets do we have to add these key pieces this summer? Maybe Allen and O'neale and our CLE picks? But to what end?


Allen hasn't been playing very well since returning from injury. Those picks aren't considered very good if having positive value beyond neutral. What would O'neale really get us as a streaky undersized forward on a multiyear deal. Our assets are just severely limited and not all that good. And if keeping KD which would be somewhat logical given his play, we again won't have cap flexibility to get under the 2nd apron.


So beyond minimum players, we won't have cap space to sign good players. And if we give up our CLE picks in trades, then we surrender our v er r last options for long term cost control talent on a team already severely limited in that context.

You're right man that we need to try and add around KD and Booker if KD chooses to stay, but I'm fairly skeptical of our abilities or mechanisms to do so?

[bwgood77]

Just goes to show the gap between the Suns and the upper echelon of the league we are in no way close to being contenders.

This is the same team that beat the Cavs and Bucks. The Celtics are great but they caught fire tonight and KP after years all of sudden played like the Knicks KP. With the way the Suns are playing lately I wouldn't say its a huge gap but I think the Suns are a terrible matchup going up against the Celtics because we don't have a stretch 5 who can also plays defense.

The Bucks are not great. They would be the 9th seed in the west. And they were without their 2nd best player, Lillard. So it was a nice win, but we were at home against a good but not great team missing a star player.

Cleveland was a nice win but they had lost 3 in a row coming in and were coming off a b2b. We will see how we do in the next 7 games which is a pretty tough schedule.

[Calvin Klein]

Reality check. It was nice while it lasted though

[Saberestar]

Where do you see me comparing KD and Beal ? KD was an overpay like Beal though a better player obviously. Overpaying in trades will lead to lack of depth is all I'm saying. It's an incompetent FO and being a contender in the future looks rather bleak because of that.

In the sentence "targeting merchenaries on big contracts like KD, Beal, Butler, PG, etc."

Well, I just say that we need to keep building around KD and Book putting better defensive/active players around them.

Gillespie, Royce, Cody Martin, Dunn and Oso fits nicely and we can add to them in the summer.

While I do agree with you on the premise of adding around what we have because we obviously need more key pieces to address positional issues, I'm curious as to how we'll accomplish this without assets if we're keeping KD?

Acknowledging that KD has been truly amazing and we'd be obviously worse without him, but absent of utilizing KDs' value in a trade, what other legitimate assets do we have to add these key pieces this summer? Maybe Allen and O'neale and our CLE picks? But to what end?


Allen hasn't been playing very well since returning from injury. Those picks aren't considered very good if having positive value beyond neutral. What would O'neale really get us as a streaky undersized forward on a multiyear deal. Our assets are just severely limited and not all that good. And if keeping KD which would be somewhat logical given his play, we again won't have cap flexibility to get under the 2nd apron.


So beyond minimum players, we won't have cap space to sign good players. And if we give up our CLE picks in trades, then we surrender our v er r last options for long term cost control talent on a team already severely limited in that context.

You're right man that we need to try and add around KD and Booker if KD chooses to stay, but I'm fairly skeptical of our abilities or mechanisms to do so?

First and foremost I would try to trade Beal adding a late FRP to his contract. Not more than that.
If that's not possible I would waive and stretch Beal (most likely outcome) to get us under the 2nd apron and It's possible that we can get even under the 1st apron with a couple of easy roster moves.

I would try to get Marcus Smart (around $20M) who is on the Wizards just waiting to be traded. Grayson Allen + Nick Richards + 2nd. Frank Lee talked about this option.

He would be our own Jrue Holiday to play next to Book, Dunn and KD. The fit looks perfect on paper.

Then we can sign a C with the full Mid-Level exception. Clint Capela, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, andd another veteran Cs will be UFAs. And we can use the Biannual Exception on another role player. Then we would add a rookie with #29.

Well, that's a quick answer but enough to explain you that there will be good options with KD and Book on the team next year.

[Hitachi77]

Just goes to show the gap between the Suns and the upper echelon of the league we are in no way close to being contenders.

This is the same team that beat the Cavs and Bucks. The Celtics are great but they caught fire tonight and KP after years all of sudden played like the Knicks KP. With the way the Suns are playing lately I wouldn't say its a huge gap but I think the Suns are a terrible matchup going up against the Celtics because we don't have a stretch 5 who can also plays defense.

The Bucks are not great. They would be the 9th seed in the west. And they were without their 2nd best player, Lillard. So it was a nice win, but we were at home against a good but not great team missing a star player.

Cleveland was a nice win but they had lost 3 in a row coming in and were coming off a b2b. We will see how we do in the next 7 games which is a pretty tough schedule.

Agreed we should see what happens the next 7 games, but a lot of people here will think of any reason to dismiss a win. You can’t dismiss the Cavs win because they were struggling but then dismiss the Bulls win because…..they are a bad team? The Bulls are 8-2 in their last 10, including destroying the Lakers. Their only losses were a close loss at Houston and to us, which was not close. So they certainly aren’t struggling. And a 40 point win, like we had vs Toronto, should never be dismissed.

Anyone who thinks this should be a .500 team is crazy. It’s very rare for .500 teams to have 7 game win streaks like we did early in the season. We should be in the mix with the 2-6 seeds. Yes, a level or two below Boston and OKC, but they have their issues too. And I’d love to see us matchup with them with KD at the 5. They likely would have to match our small lineup and Horford wouldn’t be able to stay on the floor. And they are welcome to try to post up KD instead of getting open 3s.