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Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24)

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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#401 » by Revived » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:06 am

TexansFanatic wrote:
SF88 wrote:I'll still take Curry, Griffin and Davis before him. This season he's top 3, sure but overall he still isn't top 5.

LeBron
Durant
Curry
Davis
Griffin


Griffin? Really? Come on. The other ones I understand.

It's close but my rational is because Blake's a slightly better defender (props to Harden for improving so much on this end) and Blake's a tremendous rebounder.

Griffin's also one of the best passing big men in the league so considering all that, I give him the nod.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#402 » by grumpysaddle » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:11 am

This board used to be a decent place to kill time. Now it reminds me of the ESPN board ten years ago before I realized how annoying and awful it was.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#403 » by Honey Bear » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:13 am

SF88 wrote:
TexansFanatic wrote:
SF88 wrote:I'll still take Curry, Griffin and Davis before him. This season he's top 3, sure but overall he still isn't top 5.

LeBron
Durant
Curry
Davis
Griffin


Griffin? Really? Come on. The other ones I understand.

It's close but my rational is because Blake's a slightly better defender (props to Harden for improving so much on this end) and Blake's a tremendous rebounder.

Griffin's also one of the best passing big men in the league so considering all that, I give him the nod.


Fair enough.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#404 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:13 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
SF88 wrote:Haha


I love Kieff catching that in the corner of his eye and probably thinking "FML"

I bet that's what they are laughing at in the locker room.



In fairness, Tucker got punked there lol. Bledsoe heading out to the baseline, Tucker head down not thinking straight, Bledsoe changes his mind half way through his action, waves Tucker out, too late lol...

Not as bad as the Cole and Whiteside bungle.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#405 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:17 am

In Len We Trust wrote:Damn I am so sick of people bringing up Frye.

Every time somebody misses a shot it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Hornacek makes a dumb **** decision it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Bledsoe turns the ball over it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time we play terrible defense it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time other teams outbound the **** out of us it is because we don't have Frye.

It is such an easy cop out argument but when I watch the games I do not see the lack of a stretch 4 as a significant problem.



Frye wasnt a very good stretch 4, nonetheless he was a stretch 4 by definition.
He'd go 0/17 for several games.....

But he helped Dragic a lot because he set screens, stayed up top, drew the defense out, left the paint open.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#406 » by Mr Puddles » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:19 am

Positives from the game
    Attacking the basket
    Getting to the foul line
    That girl in the ASU T-shirt
    Intensity in the 3rd quarter
    Eric Bledsoe's continuing improvement

Negatives from the game
    Rebounds. There is no reason why the Rockets, without Howard and without Motiejunas for most of the game should out rebound us the way they did. They aren't bigger, stronger, or more athletic, they're just out hustling and blocking out. The Suns had to wait 6 minutes to get their first defence rebound.
    Ball movement. Goran Dragic was on a roll early, and the Suns were avoiding him. There were two plays in a row where first Bledsoe, and then PJ passed-up a wide open Goran at the corner three for a lesser (wasted) option, followed by a clearly frustrating Dragic throwing his hands up in frustration.
    Early turnovers.
    One of one offense. I gringe everytime I see Marcus or Green take a few dribbles and then chuck up a contested shot with no rebound.
    Bench productivity.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#407 » by grumpysaddle » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:20 am

1UPZ wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:Damn I am so sick of people bringing up Frye.

Every time somebody misses a shot it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Hornacek makes a dumb **** decision it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Bledsoe turns the ball over it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time we play terrible defense it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time other teams outbound the **** out of us it is because we don't have Frye.

It is such an easy cop out argument but when I watch the games I do not see the lack of a stretch 4 as a significant problem.



Frye wasnt a very good stretch 4, nonetheless he was a stretch 4 by definition.
He'd go 0/17 for several games.....

But he helped Dragic a lot because he set screens, stayed up top, drew the defense out, left the paint open.


Which is exactly what the Suns need. By that definition, Frye was a great stretch 4. Just him being on the floor made the entire team so much better.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#408 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:25 am

grumpysaddle wrote:
1UPZ wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:Damn I am so sick of people bringing up Frye.

Every time somebody misses a shot it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Hornacek makes a dumb **** decision it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time Bledsoe turns the ball over it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time we play terrible defense it is because we don't have Frye.
Every time other teams outbound the **** out of us it is because we don't have Frye.

It is such an easy cop out argument but when I watch the games I do not see the lack of a stretch 4 as a significant problem.



Frye wasnt a very good stretch 4, nonetheless he was a stretch 4 by definition.
He'd go 0/17 for several games.....

But he helped Dragic a lot because he set screens, stayed up top, drew the defense out, left the paint open.


Which is exactly what the Suns need. By that definition, Frye was a great stretch 4. Just him being on the floor made the entire team so much better.



A good decoy indeed, which Markief and Marcus can easily be... had they been staying at the 3pt line instead of rolling into the paint or dribbling into the paint after receiving a pass.

A good stretch 4 by definition is Ryan Anderson... Al Harington....prime Rashard Lewis, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitski etc.. guys who nail shots from out there on a regular basis.... Frye is so-so, but he was a good decoy definitely.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#409 » by grumpysaddle » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:30 am

I can use this 10 day break as much as the team. Here's what needs to happen over the break...

1) IT needs to go. His trade value is probably not super high, but he'll still bring some sort of asset back on his contract/PPG alone. This is more about addition by subtraction.
2) Take a flyer on Stoudemire. If the training staff can keep his body from falling apart, there is no reason to not pick him up for peanuts on the dollar.
3) Find a way to pick up a reliable stretch 4, starting caliber would be optimal (which doesn't even have to mean that they need to be better than Kieff, they just need to stretch the floor for the rest of the team). This sort of goes with 2 though. Kieff and Stat would be coming off the bench. But Stat has a great midrange jumper, as well as Kieff (until recently). They may be able to coexist in certain lineups.
4) Find a trade partner for Green. I miss Green from last year, but he'll never be that again on this team. Free up some minutes for the young ones.
5) Work on passing and moving without the ball. With IT out of the way, Dragic and Bledsoe can go back to last year's form that was working, especially if they are able to find that stretch 4.
6) Bury Marcus on the bench. Warren brings ten times the hustle, and that seems to be a large component to what the Suns are missing for large stretches of games.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#410 » by grumpysaddle » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:33 am

1UPZ wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
1UPZ wrote:

Frye wasnt a very good stretch 4, nonetheless he was a stretch 4 by definition.
He'd go 0/17 for several games.....

But he helped Dragic a lot because he set screens, stayed up top, drew the defense out, left the paint open.


Which is exactly what the Suns need. By that definition, Frye was a great stretch 4. Just him being on the floor made the entire team so much better.



A good decoy indeed, which Markief and Marcus can easily be... had they been staying at the 3pt line instead of rolling into the paint or dribbling into the paint after receiving a pass.

A good stretch 4 by definition is Ryan Anderson... Al Harington....prime Rashard Lewis, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitski etc.. guys who nail shots from out there on a regular basis.... Frye is so-so, but he was a good decoy definitely.


Frye had some great stretches where he couldn't miss. Unfortunately, neither of the Morrii have had one of those. They can't replicate what Frye did until they do. If Kieff could hit 3s at 38-40%, he would be exactly what the Suns need, but he plays far better in the lane and from midrange, and teams know this. Frye literally had one purpose on offense, which was to set screens and pop out for 3s, or set and shoot quick 3s. Frye's release was super quick as well, something the Morrii do not have either.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#411 » by SunsFanSSOL » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 am

Frye was only acceptable because of his reputation. Teams knew all he did was shoot 3's and absolutely nothing else, so it would be put in the scouting report to watch this guy on the perimeter, allowing our guards room to drive. Similar to how Curry always gets defenders to fly by him on the perimeter due to his reputation of always pulling up for a 3 in transition. No one fears Markieff shooting a 3 at the top of the key (well, maybe the Suns do) and they know he is most likely to post up and iso, so he doesn't space the floor well. He will never have that reputation Frye, or someone like Ryan Anderson has.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#412 » by gaspar » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:02 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bjyork/status/565366559053709313[/tweet]

Also, we just scored 118 **** points and all people complain about is our offense... Really?
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#413 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:37 am

There is probably a trade for Dragic that's will go down by deadline.

One of Thomas and Green too, just a guy feeling. Based on recent rotations, player body language and locker room feedback (As gaspar posted and as is shown in Brightsideofthesun info.)

Or the trades could all fall apart, takes two to tango. :)
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#414 » by BurningHeart » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:52 am

Blaming the team being an offensive disaster on Frye being gone is only a copout to anyone who doesn't understand how basketball works.

The Dragic/Frye pairing was unbelievable last year and Frye hit just enough threes for the defense to respect it. For a guard like Dragic, all that spacing is unconscionably important. All those HPBasketball, Grantland-types have done numerous breakdowns of the Dragic/Frye pairing and what made it so special.

Now, not only is Bledsoe running the offense more because he's a slasher and an ISO guy and doesn't do the pick-and-roll/pop thing that much, leaving less touches for Dragic since he doesn't have pick-and-roll/pop partners (why we don't use Len in more PNR/P is beyond me, not like Frye but more like Amare), but when Dragic DOES get the ball, he's more limited in what he can do BECAUSE that spacing is so important and there's nobody there to give it to him as consistently or effectively as Frye did. This year, the defense just camps and waits for Bledsoe or Dragic or whoever to just try and drive in and create something and since there's nobody reliable to pass it out to, they're forced to throw up a stupid flip shot or something or they turn the ball over because they got caught dribbling with nowhere to go. And we try to counteract this conundrum by running down and taking ill-advised mid-range shots by unreliable shooters and since they don't wait to have someone down to rebound the misses, our possession is one-and-done and we get nothing out of it except further frustration.

You people look at Frye and you see his inconsistency shooting or his often subpar defense and think that that's what made him so valuable to the Suns. When people say those things it reveals a COMPLETE lack of fundamental understanding of how basketball works.

Why we did nothing to address the loss of Frye is **** beyond me. You obviously can't pay him 8 million dollars a year but you sure as dick need to get someone who can do the exact same thing so that your third team all-NBA player doesn't get castrated.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#415 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:51 pm

SF88 wrote:I'll still take Curry, Griffin and Davis before him. This season he's top 3, sure but overall he still isn't top 5.

LeBron
Durant
Curry
Davis
Griffin


Yeah, no way on Griffin.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#416 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:53 pm

BurningHeart wrote:

Why we did nothing to address the loss of Frye is **** beyond me. You obviously can't pay him 8 million dollars a year but you sure as dick need to get someone who can do the exact same thing so that your third team all-NBA player doesn't get castrated.


Well I think we did try to sign Hawes. Not that he would have been as effective as Frye, but he would have stretched the floor, hit 3s, and can also block shots. And I guess we kind of tried to address it with Tolliver.

Interesting thing is that Tolliver is really helping Detroit.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#417 » by rsavaj » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:20 pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBk3YFUfozQ[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdlYRML_Gyw[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE3UDPsmBcw[/youtube]

Dragic speaks the truth about the small lineup. You can't play 3 PGs without a rim protector, especially when Kieff has regressed as a rebounder(check out his rebounds/minute)
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#418 » by RunDogGun » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:28 pm

The other thing about Frye, that both Morris brothers can't do, Frye had a very quick release. Not only did guys have to respect his shot, they had to get out there quickly. Both MOs have a much slower release. They give defenders more time to recover. It's probably why they like to shoot fade aways so much. $8 million is too much, but it made everything work.

I wonder if Bledsoe didn't drag everything out, could things have been different. We pass on IT, we sign Frye for the same price we signed IT? F*ck you Bledsoe!! Half joking.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#419 » by rsavaj » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:35 pm

RunDogGun wrote:The other thing about Frye, that both Morris brothers can't do, Frye had a very quick release. Not only did guys have to respect his shot, they had to get out there quickly. Both MOs have a much slower release. They give defenders more time to recover. It's probably why they like to shoot fade aways so much. $8 million is too much, but it made everything work.

I wonder if Bledsoe didn't drag everything out, could things have been different. We pass on IT, we sign Frye for the same price we signed IT? F*ck you Bledsoe!! Half joking.


Forgot where I read it but apparently we offered the same $/yr as Orlando, just one year less.
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Re: Game 54: Houston Rockets (35-16) @ Phoenix Suns (29-24) 

Post#420 » by RunDogGun » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:42 pm

rsavaj wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:The other thing about Frye, that both Morris brothers can't do, Frye had a very quick release. Not only did guys have to respect his shot, they had to get out there quickly. Both MOs have a much slower release. They give defenders more time to recover. It's probably why they like to shoot fade aways so much. $8 million is too much, but it made everything work.

I wonder if Bledsoe didn't drag everything out, could things have been different. We pass on IT, we sign Frye for the same price we signed IT? F*ck you Bledsoe!! Half joking.


Forgot where I read it but apparently we offered the same $/yr as Orlando, just one year less.

We'll you can't blame Frye for taking the cash.

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