Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[Qwigglez]

I know this isn't a Bledsoe vs Westbrook debate but I wanted to discuss a bit about both of em.
I think Bledsoe has the talent and athleticism equal to Westbrook. What separates Westbrook from others is his high motor and high energy. Westbrook loves the game of basketball, and you can tell by the way he plays.
I'm just waiting for Bledsoe to want to take his game to the next level to All-NBA status. By the looks of his offseason work, I think we might see some improvement from him this upcoming year. Hoping for it at least.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn7K_D3vMT0[/youtube]

[Safety Pickle]

I know this isn't a Bledsoe vs Westbrook debate but I wanted to discuss a bit about both of em.
I think Bledsoe has the talent and athleticism equal to Westbrook. What separates Westbrook from others is his high motor and high energy. Westbrook loves the game of basketball, and you can tell by the way he plays.
I'm just waiting for Bledsoe to want to take his game to the next level to All-NBA status. By the looks of his offseason work, I think we might see some improvement from him this upcoming year. Hoping for it at least.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn7K_D3vMT0[/youtube]

Gotta hit all-star before you can reach all-nba. But yeah I agree that we'll see some big improvements this year. He's got all the physical attributes to be an all star, he's just got to put it all together and find a way to be more consistent and assertive

[batsmasher]

A lot can change in a year. Bled's ambassadorial work this off-season has made me completely forget about the broken bread. He really is growing into that role we hoped for and that points to good progress on the court too, hopefully.

With that being said, it hasn't been 6 months since he organised that stripper event they all drank at, and then proceeded to lose the game the next night to the Spurs by 27.

[bwgood77]

A lot can change in a year. Bled's ambassadorial work this off-season has made me completely forget about the broken bread. He really is growing into that role we hoped for and that points to good progress on the court too, hopefully.

With that being said, it hasn't been 6 months since he organised that stripper event they all drank at, and then proceeded to lose the game the next night to the Spurs by 27.

Wow, that was walking distance from my old place in Scottsdale. I wish I was there and able to attend. Maybe I wouldn't have minded the game as much the next night.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Good research and solid numbers to back up your points, however I think a big reason Westbrook's %s were not better was because OKC was SO banged up for so much of the year with like all of their other best players out, and he was playing with scrubs and the other team's defensive focus was to throw everything at him.

See above, he made **** up.

I guess I didn't fact check.

We should probably get back to Suns talk. This has gone from Bledsoe is better than Wall to Wall would be better than Westbrook for OKC to Westbrook isn't a winner. I think we have definitely gotten off track.

Which is hilarious to begin with, as no one said such a thing to begin with. I stated the following:

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1403816&start=160#start_here

...in response to 1UPZ pronouncing that in order to have HOPE, it's best to 'tank'. What I was pointing out, essentially, was that Wall was taken 1st overall, while EB was taken 18th (and no, not by us even), so is it worth it to 'tank' and possibly end up with a John Wall-caliber player, who isn't going to carry a team to a championship, vice put forth a reasonable effort, have a decent season, draft 18th, and come away with a player that is not THAT MUCH worse than Wall.

And I'm not even talking position-wise, just simply, as an NBA player. I contend that it's not necessary to 'tank' in order to have HOPE. You might end up with a John Wall-esque player just as easily as ending up with an Anthony Davis-esque player.

A fan can have just as much HOPE that Booker will have the level of impact that a John Wall has...or Evan Turner...

For instance, in 2010, the Nets finished with the worst record, yet drafted 3rd, so they didn't even get to select Wall. The Wolves finished with the 2nd worst record, drafted 4th, and took Wesley Johnson. And not that they intentionally 'tanked', but assuming they did, they won 15 games, drafted 4th, and got Wesley Johnson, whereas the Clippers, via trade, selected Bledsoe at 18th. Or how about the Pacers, who won 32 games, ended up with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day. The point is, that tanking guarantees you NOTHING. You are as likely to end up with John Wall, as you are with Anthony Davis, as you are with Andrea Bargnani. And if that is what one as a fan needs, in order to have HOPE for a player, then fair enough.

I personally hold out better HOPE that the Suns are more likely to find talent via trade or FA, than via tanking and drafting, but that's just my opinion--doesn't mean my way of HOPE is any better than another's. I'm just personally a happier fan as an 8th seed drafting 15th, than I am as the team with the worst record drafting, say 3rd.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

See above, he made **** up.

I guess I didn't fact check.

We should probably get back to Suns talk. This has gone from Bledsoe is better than Wall to Wall would be better than Westbrook for OKC to Westbrook isn't a winner. I think we have definitely gotten off track.

Which is hilarious to begin with, as no one said such a thing to begin with. I stated the following:

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1403816&start=160#start_here

...in response to 1UPZ pronouncing that in order to have HOPE, it's best to 'tank'. What I was pointing out, essentially, was that Wall was taken 1st overall, while EB was taken 18th (and no, not by us even), so is it worth it to 'tank' and possibly end up with a John Wall-caliber player, who isn't going to carry a team to a championship, vice put forth a reasonable effort, have a decent season, draft 18th, and come away with a player that is not THAT MUCH worse than Wall.

And I'm not even talking position-wise, just simply, as an NBA player. I contend that it's not necessary to 'tank' in order to have HOPE. You might end up with a John Wall-esque player just as easily as ending up with an Anthony Davis-esque player.

A fan can have just as much HOPE that Booker will have the level of impact that a John Wall has...or Evan Turner...

For instance, in 2010, the Nets finished with the worst record, yet drafted 3rd, so they didn't even get to select Wall. The Wolves finished with the 2nd worst record, drafted 4th, and took Wesley Johnson. And not that they intentionally 'tanked', but assuming they did, they won 15 games, drafted 4th, and got Wesley Johnson, whereas the Clippers, via trade, selected Bledsoe at 18th. Or how about the Pacers, who won 32 games, ended up with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day. The point is, that tanking guarantees you NOTHING. You are as likely to end up with John Wall, as you are with Anthony Davis, as you are with Andrea Bargnani. And if that is what one as a fan needs, in order to have HOPE for a player, then fair enough.

I personally hold out better HOPE that the Suns are more likely to find talent via trade or FA, than via tanking and drafting, but that's just my opinion--doesn't mean my way of HOPE is any better than another's. I'm just personally a happier fan as an 8th seed drafting 15th, than I am as the team with the worst record drafting, say 3rd.

I could have sworn someone (I think Natural Buns said Bledsoe is better than Wall) but maybe a post was edited. Looking back he did say he is just as good, if not slightly worse.

But my point was that the thread veered into strange directions, but mostly I said it because it seemed to be getting personal. I wasn't calling you out. I hadn't even remembered you saying anything regarding that.

But I do agree with your tanking thoughts.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

I guess I didn't fact check.

We should probably get back to Suns talk. This has gone from Bledsoe is better than Wall to Wall would be better than Westbrook for OKC to Westbrook isn't a winner. I think we have definitely gotten off track.

Which is hilarious to begin with, as no one said such a thing to begin with. I stated the following:

2010--Is Wall THAT much better than Bledsoe, selected 18th? Evan Turner, maybe?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1403816&start=160#start_here

...in response to 1UPZ pronouncing that in order to have HOPE, it's best to 'tank'. What I was pointing out, essentially, was that Wall was taken 1st overall, while EB was taken 18th (and no, not by us even), so is it worth it to 'tank' and possibly end up with a John Wall-caliber player, who isn't going to carry a team to a championship, vice put forth a reasonable effort, have a decent season, draft 18th, and come away with a player that is not THAT MUCH worse than Wall.

And I'm not even talking position-wise, just simply, as an NBA player. I contend that it's not necessary to 'tank' in order to have HOPE. You might end up with a John Wall-esque player just as easily as ending up with an Anthony Davis-esque player.

A fan can have just as much HOPE that Booker will have the level of impact that a John Wall has...or Evan Turner...

For instance, in 2010, the Nets finished with the worst record, yet drafted 3rd, so they didn't even get to select Wall. The Wolves finished with the 2nd worst record, drafted 4th, and took Wesley Johnson. And not that they intentionally 'tanked', but assuming they did, they won 15 games, drafted 4th, and got Wesley Johnson, whereas the Clippers, via trade, selected Bledsoe at 18th. Or how about the Pacers, who won 32 games, ended up with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.

It doesn't matter, at the end of the day. The point is, that tanking guarantees you NOTHING. You are as likely to end up with John Wall, as you are with Anthony Davis, as you are with Andrea Bargnani. And if that is what one as a fan needs, in order to have HOPE for a player, then fair enough.

I personally hold out better HOPE that the Suns are more likely to find talent via trade or FA, than via tanking and drafting, but that's just my opinion--doesn't mean my way of HOPE is any better than another's. I'm just personally a happier fan as an 8th seed drafting 15th, than I am as the team with the worst record drafting, say 3rd.

I could have sworn someone (I think Natural Buns said Bledsoe is better than Wall) but maybe a post was edited. Looking back he did say he is just as good, if not slightly worse.

But my point was that the thread veered into strange directions, but mostly I said it because it seemed to be getting personal. I wasn't calling you out. I hadn't even remembered you saying anything regarding that.

But I do agree with your tanking thoughts.

.

Oh, I didn't feel you were calling me out, or anything. Just wanted to clarify where this all came from. Frank was trying emphasize that Wall is that much better, then Sundeuce picked it up from there, making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

And I'm glad some see how incredibly 'iffy' it can get by trying to tank--Philly's been doing it for 3 years running and still haven't gotten it right yet. Their best player was, yep, you guessed it, via a trade. They had good players in Jrue and MCW, traded them. Had the #2 overall pick in 2010, traded him.

I mean, the only 'top 5 pick' players they've gotten via their own draft picks have been Evan Turner (bust), Embiid (still broken), and Okafor (Unknown as of yet). The only for sure, "good" other players were via trade (Noel, Wroton), then the maybe-es in Stauskus, Saric, Covington, and Canaan. Then you have a bunch of unknowns in Grant, Holmes, Tokoto, and some others. I mean, the Sixers can't even 'tank' properly, and that is the team some fans want us to model after? Three top 5 picks and not a sure fire player in the bunch? Their best players are Noel and Wroton, who again, weren't even their original picks.

[saintEscaton]

In my book he's a troll and I'll continue to call it as I see it. I don't care if he argues pro-Suns or not.

Well don't personally attack people. It's against forum rules, and I'm here to make sure people follow them.

I agree. I crossed the line, but then I did apologize to Bondman. However, I am wondering why you didn't step in to address his personal attacks on saintescation and others on this board? In one of his posts Bondman said a post he disagreed with was a "flat out lie", basically calling saintescation a liar. He then immediately referred to the two people who And1 the post as "not being able to think for themselves". That fact that he was ratcheting up the rhetoric and then calling people a liar was what set me off. I over responded then apologized. You tell me not to attack personally, butwhy didn't you call out another mod for his posts on this forum?

Yup thanks for having my back Cutter. Bondom came off as a condescending prick and obviously has a vested intererested in defending his guy no matter what. He needs to get off his self-appointed high horse as the foremost authority nd not just discredit anything that paints another side of the story APBR is not the end all be all, And as fact I did NOT make up any of those stats. I just countered and brougth into question his choice to cherry pick BPM an other preferential metrics that did not even support his conclusion that "Westbrook is a high volume good efficiency guy"

[Cutter]

I'll just end it with this. But in the future, please just don't make stuff up, really annoying. And dishonest.

#foolishness

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

[LukasBMW]

Back on track.

Apparently the Blazers and Wolves got close to a trade. I wonder who was involved?

Twitter now says that the Celtics are looking to make a blockbuster. I wonder if we can get in on the action.

I want young talent or another proven PF if we ship out Keef.

No more draft picks or spare parts. We have enough of those.

[shakendfries]

Back on track.

Apparently the Blazers and Wolves got close to a trade. I wonder who was involved?

Twitter now says that the Celtics are looking to make a blockbuster. I wonder if we can get in on the action.

I want young talent or another proven PF if we ship out Keef.

No more draft picks or spare parts. We have enough of those.

How do you feel about Terrence Ross and James Johnson?

[franksredhot]

Good Ol' Nashty

[Saberestar]

Back on track.

Apparently the Blazers and Wolves got close to a trade. I wonder who was involved?

Twitter now says that the Celtics are looking to make a blockbuster. I wonder if we can get in on the action.

I want young talent or another proven PF if we ship out Keef.

No more draft picks or spare parts. We have enough of those.

How do you feel about Terrence Ross and James Johnson?

I do not like them. They are not better than Warren or P.J. , they are not needed.

Boston have the pieces to make a big trade...they have a ton of frontcourt players. With David Lee and Amir Johnson now on their team, Sullinger can be traded ...but I think he is worse than Markieff and a really poor defender, so I do not want him like a Sun.

[Cutter]

Good Ol' Nashty

Hahaha! I used to love Nash, and used this exact same picture as my avatar for several years. I clipped it down to just show Steve and his hairy chest holding a beer. I liked it because it showed a different side of him that most people didn't see. I just assumed it was him out partying and drinking beer. However looking at it from a different perspective, maybe there were other chemicals in his system beside alchohol.

[bigfoot]

Good Ol' Nashty

Hahaha! I used to love Nash, and used this exact same picture as my avatar for several years. I clipped it down to just show Steve and his hairy chest holding a beer. I liked it because it showed a different side of him that most people didn't see. I just assumed it was him out partying and drinking beer. However looking at it from a different perspective, maybe there were other chemicals in his system beside alchohol.

Hmmm ... looks like a bunch of guys drinking beer ... no chicks ... other than the hand with the nice manicure.

[saintEscaton]

Good Ol' Nashty

Hahaha! I used to love Nash, and used this exact same picture as my avatar for several years. I clipped it down to just show Steve and his hairy chest holding a beer. I liked it because it showed a different side of him that most people didn't see. I just assumed it was him out partying and drinking beer. However looking at it from a different perspective, maybe there were other chemicals in his system beside alchohol.

Popped a molly and I ain't even sweatin'

[bondom34]

I'll just end it with this. But in the future, please just don't make stuff up, really annoying. And dishonest.

#foolishness

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

[saintEscaton]

I'll just end it with this. But in the future, please just don't make stuff up, really annoying. And dishonest.

#foolishness

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

He does have an on court NetRtg of .5. See for yourself. http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612760/onoffcourt/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&DateFrom=02%2F21%2F2015

[bondom34]

I want to be be polite when I ask this, but why are you coming back today trying to stir things up again? Your a mod and supposed to be above this.

Nobody that I am aware of made anything up, or lied in a post. They may have posted something you disagree with, they might have made a mistake in posting numbers or stats, or they may just look at the world of basketball completely different from you. Yet you took the liberty of saying the post was a lie and proceeded to attack based on that view. When you keep calling a post a lie, you are basically calling the poster a liar. That is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board. You said that people who and1'd the post couldn't think for themselves, that is a personal attack and will get you banned from this board.

BWGood or other mods what do you think of this? Do you feel Bondom should be held accountable for his personal attacks yesterday, and then coming back today trying to stir things up again? Have any of you forwarded his comments to Howard Mass for review? I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear your reply.

Thanks.

OK. I'm going to reply to this because it was asked but a few things:
1. I never attacked anyone, I attacked the post.
2. I pointed out, in my own reply, what was false about Saint's reply. He posted numbers which were, by the links provided, false. Not true. That is made up, or a lie as you say.
3. The foolishness post was a joke, a reference to Morris made lightheartedly. And if you'd like me held accountable for something, I have zero idea what it is.

Again, I provided links. He has a net rating of .5 (false) is the first that comes to mind, along with multiple others. I'm tired of this and really don't care to be here anymore, they're not paying me to do this and its quite tiresome getting into a debate when not only can that happen but then I'm attacked multiple times for refuting it. So that's it. Stuff was made up and I showed it, yet I somehow was the one who attacked others when I was multiple times attacked myself. I'm done here, carry on with your offseason.

He does have an on court NetRtg of .5. See for yourself. http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612760/onoffcourt/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&DateFrom=02%2F21%2F2015

You only searched from 2/21/15 on. If you change it to the entire season its 4.1.

I posted the on/off which was the difference in the team's ratings when he played or not, so when he sat they were a net negative (and bbrs numbers differ by a couple decimals).

[tdjm]

I never realized how little I cared about Russell Westbrook until I had to read three pages of this trash. You guys done yet?