The Boogie Watch

[bwgood77]

Straight up, the value wise is fair IMO. If Cousins was inked for three more years than yes. But since he's going to a free agent I'd say no.

It's fair based on performance, but not based on popularity of Booker, how long we hold is rights, the fact he loves it here with his best friend Ulis, we are better served to compete in 2-3 years with more young talent with even more good picks after that, and Boogie being a free agent soon.

Really, I don't mind which direction we go. If we don't get Cousins then we stay the course and suck for another couple years. I don't mind. If we wanted to trade our assets to push for the playoffs next year I'm down for that too.
You really don't believe next year we'd be a top 3 team in the West with Bledsoe/Booker/Cousins and whoever else we can sign in the offseason? Maybe go after Gallinari, Hayward, or even Bojan Bogdanovic who seems to be a decent catch and shoot player.

No, not top 3. Maybe top 5 with weakened west. Or top 6. Not better than a healthy Warriors, Spurs, Clips or Rockets team. Not sure about Utah. Maybe get to 2nd round.

[Frank Lee]

That's a deal in my book. No questions asked. A mid level center who will need to be signed.... a role player and two projects. What's not to like? Seems almost a underpay except for Sactown driving their tank straight into the drink. With Boogie, they run the risk of a mid pick. And I think they lose it if it's 11 or higher.

If it's below 11, Philly has the right to swap though so that would still end up with the lower pick. Also, Philly holds their unconditional 2019 pick - so not much incentive for the Kings to tank.

And if it's 11 or above it goes to Chicago. 10 or below philly can swap.

It's a tight spot for them.... they keep Boogie, they could easily have no pick.... they trade and tank, philly swaps and they end up with a higher pick. If the deal is made, players aside, our pick will certainly be devalued as we should win more games.

No doubt, the big prize on the board is Bostons/Brooklyn pick... but the booger is in control, he wants to play with his buds... create his own big three. He needs a franchise that is desperate enough and willing to cater to him. I don't think Boston does that... nor Sac can....where as McD can honestly say that he will make it possible that DMC, Bled, and Wahl can all play together. That is their plan. You put Boogie here, it will happen. I'd love to see Chandler, DMC, Tucker, Bled, and Booker sneak into the play offs. That is a bruising team that, if gelling, could be a handful to deal with. You roll them out, and they make the playoffs,... the town explodes. Boogie is a savior to Sarver..... and McD. IMO, no way they pass up a true chance to get him. And some would balk on A deal including Bender and Warren.... LOL..... it won't stop The Front Office.

And nuts to y'all that think that Golden State is some unbeatable group for the next couple years. They didn't win last yr did they? They can be manhandled and beat.

[RaisingArizona]

I trust Gambo over some RealGM mod. No offense, RealGM mod.

These are just my opinions. I don't know anything for sure, and obviously he knows more than I do, and someone probably told him that...not a real source within the Suns organization, but someone else.

Where is JellyRolling btw

I think he fell off the bandwagon

[jcsunsfan]

The types of offers being suggested are way over the top. If the Kings are talking it's because THEY are motivated. There is no point in bidding against yourself. Look at what teams gave up for similar players in the past.

Gasol to Lakers
Garnett to Celtics
Barkley to Suns

Cousins is not more highly regarded than any of these at the time.


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[jcsunsfan]

If we were to trade for Cousins, I would expect it to be in the offseason where, as some have mentioned, the Suns would have a higher pick than if we were to get Cousins now.
I'm sure if we offered them Our first, both of Miamis, Chriss, and Booker, they wouldn't balk, but since that'll never happen (thankfully), it'd have to be something after the season.

Yep. Right now, that pick is not worth as much as when it lands in the top 3 later.

[nashrambler13]

Guys, what is the endgame here? Do we honestly think that getting Bledsoe/Booker/PJ/Chriss/Boogie is that good of a team? With what it would take to get him, that team has:

- Absolutely, positively no bench
- A wildly inexperienced coach
- No pick this year (to add young, cheap talent)
- Soon to be no cap space with the impending Boogie extension (there is no chance that he takes a discount, which is, in most examples, crucial for the construction of a championship team--look at every recent championship, and there are star players across the board taking a significant discount early on.)

I understand the impulse completely-- a month ago I was all in on getting Boogie (for the right price). The Booker-Boogie combo was, in my (likely) biased mind, a sort of Shaq-Kobe-lite (fun fact, the age difference between Book/DMC and Shaq/Kobe is the same!), and that was very exciting.

In a vacuum, the Bledsoe/Booker/Boogie combo sounds incredible, and perhaps it is, with the right players. However, who are those right players? And even if they exist, and are available THIS free agency (as next would likely be too late), are they REALLY going to sign with us? WE are going to be the "most desirable team" for those players? And that is just in a vacuum! Consider the landscape of the league right now! There is no way that team can beat the Warriors or even the Spurs/Cavs in the next two, three, four years.

This is not the time to make "the splash". I do think Boogie is an incredible player, but he is still a question mark. He will not propel us, short-term or long-term, to championship contention. The West is too deep, and Devin is, as good as I think he is and will be, not ready. Chriss is even further- I think he could be a good player, but he's about 4 years (at least) from getting close to his peak (if he reaches it), and by that time Boogie is 30, and Bledsoe is probably further ravaged by knee injuries. This moves starts a ticking clock that I do not think will tick in our favor.

I know it is hard to be patient in this drought, I feel it too. However, we are so very close to having a near FULL core that can grow together and give us time to find the right vets and continue to make the right moves.

[nashrambler13]

All that being said, if we do trade for him (which I think is unlikely- there is no world in which our offer is better than Boston's, and I don't think Boogie wants out THAT badly. Even if the talks are ongoing, we do not have too much leverage here.), I will immediately flip sides and fully board the homer-train as I am wont to do. #ShaqKobeLite #ButwithagreatPG

[jcsunsfan]

Nash. Boogie won't be over the hill at 30. He will have 5 years of very high level production ahead of him at that time. I just think the packages being offered are way over the top for an emotionally unpredictable player. I also think that Sacramento wants to keep him, and when they want to move him they will do so because they have to. In that case, the price will be lower. Also, no verbal contract agreement is binding. A player like Cousins is the LAST person I would trust to keep a verbal promise to sign an extension.

There is just too much risk. Wait til summer.

[jredsaz]

I don't recall the last time an Arizona radio personality spoke at such length and with such confidence about a trade rumor. It's been several years. This is smoke. I bet there's fire. Objectively, it makes sense: my BSometer's not going off.

I don't think we'll need to give up the farm to get him like some are suggesting. To my mind, the "farm" is both MIA picks and Bender. Because Chriss isn't going anywhere - believe that.

Len, TJ, PHX '17, MIA '18/19

To my mind, the questions are, can we keep Bender? Can we keep MIA '21? Can anyone beat that package as it stands without those assets? I'm not sure about these things. If Boston isn't willing to trade one of the BKN picks, we probably don't have much competition for Cousins. Plus, Vivek Ranadive owns that team, so who knows what they're thinking.

There may have been talks, and McD may feel his job is on the line, but there has been no indication that Sac wants to trade him. Maybe after their 5 game losing streak they feel their playoff hopes are gone and they should rebuild but I think Cousins wants that enormous extension. I can guarantee that they would want Booker, Warren, our unprotected first and more picks/swaps though at least...not sure why they would want a big with Skal, WCS, Papa and Koufos.

I understand your point regarding their expected return but two factors remain. How bad do they want to get rid of him and where is the market?

I disagree there has been no sign that the Kings are interested in moving Cousins. The Lakers talk last year and Gambos recent report indicate that there are people in the organization that are ready to move on.

Secondly, how many young teams with the type of assets we have are interested in adding a player with Cousins issues? Bucks, Wolves probably not. Nuggets maybe but they are in playoff contention with their young core. Celtics, Magic, Blazers are probably our competition and we don't know what assets they are offering.

I would venture that 2017 1st, Warren, Bender (or MIA 2018), and Len is one of the stronger packages they could be offered. But that is entirely speculation. Lol. And I'm not sure it's a good move for the organization at any rate.

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[sunsbum]

^ I love Bender but done.

Ray ray, what do you think the chances are this gets done? Is McD under pressure to make a splash in his last contract year?

It's unsure to be honest... the Kings are not completely sold on trading Cousins.. but they're also not sure if he's the answer since they haven't made the playoffs with him .. But the Kings poor decisions making and lack of drafting quality players from college hasn't help Cousins.. so let's not put it ALL on him... In addition, the Kings haven't made the playoffs since 2006 .. meanwhile the Suns haven't made it since 2010.. both organizations are desperate to make a splash.

There isn't a big man in the NBA this very movement that is better than Demarcus Cousins when he's on his A game.. Some within the Suns FO believe that if the trade happens now, they'll make the playoffs and possibly push the #1 seed in the first round.

So are you a suns insider or a kings insider? Or both?

If any of this is true, I'm not terribly excited to get rid of Bender or Chriss. I think the suns would be foolish to trade away either of them. 2 1st rounders a young capable 20pt scorer (warren) and a decent backup/starter Center is pretty decent haul. I still think Len has time to turn his offensive game around. Heck we can throw in brandon knight and maybe they can flip him next year when his numbers rise.

[wordsenuff]

According to Jason Jones of the Sacramento Bee, there is nothing to the King-Suns DeMarcus Cousins trade rumor.
Jones contends that the Kings are not actively looking to deal Cousins, particularly if they don't get a high-level player in return, so the lottery picks from Phoenix reportedly will not be enough to move the needle for Sacramento. It needs to be noted that this most recent rumor was based on a discussion that happened between the two teams prior to Christmas, but ever since the Kings announced that they are planning to sign Boogie to a massive extension this summer, they have not engaged with any teams on the trade front.

doesn't look like it's happening fellas

[BobbieL]

Good stuff Ray Ray. I look at it this way. If Knight is NOT traded and Len is resigned next year, that is about 26m in salary for two guys that really are not difference makers.

Chriss and Bender - they are both similar, really only need one and I agree, keep Chriss

Warren is a nice player but expendable

This is really where the rubber meets the road - the top pick this year. Could be a special player - but for Cousins, if he signs long term, worth it

Cousins, Dudley, Chriss, Booker, Bledsoe, Chandler, Ulis, Barbosa, Williams - rest of the roster can be veteran role players. They will come to the Suns - they are out there.

I would trade Tucker to try to get back a late first rounder being lost in this trade - its good to have rookies on 4 year deals that are cheap

If you could move Knight for Rondo and a1st - again, getting back that first rounder

I think I do it.

[m1chal]

It would be illogical for the Kings to do it now. Maybe on draft day.

[Qwigglez]

According to Jason Jones of the Sacramento Bee, there is nothing to the King-Suns DeMarcus Cousins trade rumor.
Jones contends that the Kings are not actively looking to deal Cousins, particularly if they don't get a high-level player in return, so the lottery picks from Phoenix reportedly will not be enough to move the needle for Sacramento. It needs to be noted that this most recent rumor was based on a discussion that happened between the two teams prior to Christmas, but ever since the Kings announced that they are planning to sign Boogie to a massive extension this summer, they have not engaged with any teams on the trade front.

doesn't look like it's happening fellas

Of course they say that. What are they suppose to say? Yeah, we're trying to move Cousins before the summer because he might walk and we're scared to lose him for nothing.
Good way to protect themselves. Didn't expect anything less.
And I'm off to Mt Hood guys. Someone better unfreeze me!

[wordsenuff]

According to Jason Jones of the Sacramento Bee, there is nothing to the King-Suns DeMarcus Cousins trade rumor.
Jones contends that the Kings are not actively looking to deal Cousins, particularly if they don't get a high-level player in return, so the lottery picks from Phoenix reportedly will not be enough to move the needle for Sacramento. It needs to be noted that this most recent rumor was based on a discussion that happened between the two teams prior to Christmas, but ever since the Kings announced that they are planning to sign Boogie to a massive extension this summer, they have not engaged with any teams on the trade front.

doesn't look like it's happening fellas

Of course they say that. What are they suppose to say? Yeah, we're trying to move Cousins before the summer because he might walk and we're scared to lose him for nothing.
Good way to protect themselves. Didn't expect anything less.
And I'm off to Mt Hood guys. Someone better unfreeze me!

Well I hope it's true. I would love to have cousins but not for all the assets that have been said to be included in the proposed trade.

[LukasBMW]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j4wyl55

+ we send Sacramento our unprotected 17 first and the unprotected Miami pick

Bledsoe
Booker/Barbosa
Melo/PJ
Boogie/Chriss
Tyson

Ulis, Price, and Sauce on the deep bench.

Then we try to snag a vet backup PG and vet backup center either cheap at the deadline or on a buyout.

[BobbieL]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j4wyl55

+ we send Sacramento our unprotected 17 first and the unprotected Miami pick

Bledsoe
Booker/Barbosa
Melo/PJ
Boogie/Chriss
Tyson

Ulis, Price, and Sauce on the deep bench.

Then we try to snag a vet backup PG and vet backup center either cheap at the deadline or on a buyout.

I actually think you need to keep Dudley to keep Boogie in line
Melo wouldn't fit - Booker, Bledsoe, Boogie, Chriss - that's the core of your team for five years moving

I am okay with Len, Warren, Bender and this years pick for Boogie
Knight and Tucker traded

[LukasBMW]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=grlvvxp

+ We send our unprotected 2017 1st and a Miami pick to the Kings
+ Warriors send two 1st rounders to the Kings.

Kings get 4 (Four) 1st rounders, Bender, and Warren. Plus Knight to make the salaries match.

Warriors get a rim protector to strengthen their front line AND more importantly, they squeeze him in under the cap so they can go way way over the cap in the future. Adding Len and extending him also gives them the option to move him for another high dollar player in the future.

Tell me the Kings wouldn't get excited about building around Bender, Warren, WCS, Skal, + 2 lottery picks in the Guard rich 2017 draft + 3 more future 1sts.

And Knight is a throw in. Maybe he returns to old form, maybe they just flip him for something else.

[jcsunsfan]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=grlvvxp

+ We send our unprotected 2017 1st and a Miami pick to the Kings
+ Warriors send two 1st rounders to the Kings.

Kings get 4 (Four) 1st rounders, Bender, and Warren. Plus Knight to make the salaries match.

Warriors get a rim protector to strengthen their front line AND more importantly, they squeeze him in under the cap so they can go way way over the cap in the future. Adding Len and extending him also gives them the option to move him for another high dollar player in the future.

Tell me the Kings wouldn't get excited about building around Bender, Warren, WCS, Skal, + 2 lottery picks in the Guard rich 2017 draft + 3 more future 1sts.

And Knight is a throw in. Maybe he returns to old form, maybe they just flip him for something else.

Knight, Bender, Warren, Len, 2017 first and a Miami first for Cousins.

I hate to give up Bender. Warren is fine with me. My big concern would be Cousins signing next summer. He is the last guy I would trust to keep a verbal commitment. I might do this in June/July.

[gaspar]

Outside a Star for Star trade there's only really 2 teams who could win a serious bidding contest:

Phoenix - Phoenix 1st, Miami 1st, Len, Warren, Chriss, Knight.
Boston - Brooklyn 1st, Brooklyn 1st, Brown, Olynck, Johnson.

And that would be if it needed to, possible to do it for less.

Kinda relevant:

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