Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[Saberestar]

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[cberry78]

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TrAdE hIm He SuCkS!

[Saberestar]

I would say that Ayton is already the fourth (probably the third, I have doubts about it) best rebounder in the history of the franchise.

1. Charles Barkley.
11.5 rpg, 4 seasons on the Suns.

2. Paul Silas.
12.1 rpg, 3 seasons on the Suns.

3. Shawn Marion.
10.0 rpg, 9 seasons on the Suns.

He is there next to Matrix already. I can not decide clearly who is the better one, but for now I would say Marion. Different type of rebounders but both pretty effective.

Marion's rebounding helped us to play an uptempo offense with him at PF.

Marion was a better rebounder out of his area and Ayton is better clearing space around him to grab boards.

[spanishninja]

Marion has had the advantage of not playing at the center position. Really opened up all the different angles to getting a rebound. Ayton is mostly limited to boxing out for his.

I would say that Ayton is already the fourth (probably the third, I have doubts about it) best rebounder in the history of the franchise.

1. Charles Barkley.
11.5 rpg, 4 seasons on the Suns.

2. Paul Silas.
12.1 rpg, 3 seasons on the Suns.

3. Shawn Marion.
10.0 rpg, 9 seasons on the Suns.

He is there next to Matrix already. I can not decide clearly who is the better one, but for now I would say Marion. Different type of rebounders but both pretty effective.

Marion's rebounding helped us to play an uptempo offense with him at PF.

Marion was a better rebounder out of his area and Ayton is better clearing space around him to grab boards.

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[bwgood77]

I would say that Ayton is already the fourth (probably the third, I have doubts about it) best rebounder in the history of the franchise.

1. Charles Barkley.
11.5 rpg, 4 seasons on the Suns.

2. Paul Silas.
12.1 rpg, 3 seasons on the Suns.

3. Shawn Marion.
10.0 rpg, 9 seasons on the Suns.

He is there next to Matrix already. I can not decide clearly who is the better one, but for now I would say Marion. Different type of rebounders but both pretty effective.

Marion's rebounding helped us to play an uptempo offense with him at PF.

Marion was a better rebounder out of his area and Ayton is better clearing space around him to grab boards.

Marion is better..Ayton averages more but Marion was 6'7 and relentless. I don't know about Silas...didn't watch those years, but it was likely a lot faster pace...should compare per 100 possessions. Same as with Marion and probably Barkley. Ayton might really beat them all in # of rebounds when considering pace.

However, no chance he is a better rebounder than Barkley, who, given his size is probably a top 5 rebounder ever. And Marion, for his size, is probably vastly underrated.

I bet given their size, they could both be #1. Barkley was only like 6'5 or some say 6'4

[phx#7]

Marion's high rebounds per 100 possessions was his 2nd year at 15.3, Ayton's low so far was his rookie year and it was 15.9 and is currently at 19.5 this year(Barkley 's high was 18.7).

I was too young to really pay attention to the nuance of Barkley when he played but I do remember him be great a boxing out which neither Marion or Ayton do.

I feel Ayton's presence on the boards is more impactful than Marion's because he's usually occupying multiple opponents and still controlling the boards while Marion was better at chase down boards

[Saberestar]

I would say that Ayton is already the fourth (probably the third, I have doubts about it) best rebounder in the history of the franchise.

1. Charles Barkley.
11.5 rpg, 4 seasons on the Suns.

2. Paul Silas.
12.1 rpg, 3 seasons on the Suns.

3. Shawn Marion.
10.0 rpg, 9 seasons on the Suns.

He is there next to Matrix already. I can not decide clearly who is the better one, but for now I would say Marion. Different type of rebounders but both pretty effective.

Marion's rebounding helped us to play an uptempo offense with him at PF.

Marion was a better rebounder out of his area and Ayton is better clearing space around him to grab boards.

Marion is better..Ayton averages more but Marion was 6'7 and relentless. I don't know about Silas...didn't watch those years, but it was likely a lot faster pace...should compare per 100 possessions. Same as with Marion and probably Barkley. Ayton might really beat them all in # of rebounds when considering pace.

However, no chance he is a better rebounder than Barkley, who, given his size is probably a top 5 rebounder ever. And Marion, for his size, is probably vastly underrated.

I bet given their size, they could both be #1. Barkley was only like 6'5 or some say 6'4

Yeah, no doubt, Barkley is hands down the best rebounder in the history of the franchise.

The Suns have not had too many great frontcourt players. Shaq and Chandler were old when they arrived and A. Adams, Chambers and Stoudemire were not great rebounders.

So it is "easy" for Ayton to be considered already one of the best rebounders in the history of the franchise and hopefully he will be known as one of the best (if not the best) Cs in a short period of time.

[Wilber85]

Ayton Better Rebounder than Marion!

Think how many Ayton would avg if he hustled and was aggressive!

[Saberestar]

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[Mulhollanddrive]

Ayton is 4th in rebound percentage for starting centers behind Drummond, Gobert, Capela.

He allows us to play a small ball PF otherwise we'd be smashed on the glass.

[Biff]

His rebounding is elite. His timidness on offense still massively frustrates me. When KP blocked him in the 4th last night, he only blocked him because Ayton hesitated and then went up soft. Had he immediately went up strong and slammed it home, it would have been 2 points and a ball to KP's face. It ended up not being a huge deal because he got the ball back and immediately threw it out to Booker, who hit the shot, but it's still a concerning long-term trend. Guy just is missing some key attributes necessary to be truly dominate. I get that KP is tall and long but Ayton is also tall and long and much stronger and more athletic. Letting KP intimidate him so much is just silly. Suns need to get this guy the best sports psychologist in the business.

[bwgood77]

His rebounding is elite. His timidness on offense still massively frustrates me. When KP blocked him in the 4th last night, he only blocked him because Ayton hesitated and then went up soft. Had he immediately went up strong and slammed it home, it would have been 2 points and a ball to KP's face. It ended up not being a huge deal because he got the ball back and immediately threw it out to Booker, who hit the shot, but it's still a concerning long-term trend. Guy just is missing some key attributes necessary to be truly dominate. I get that KP is tall and long but Ayton is also tall and long and much stronger and more athletic. Letting KP intimidate him so much is just silly. Suns need to get this guy the best sports psychologist in the business.

Hmmm..I came away thinking he responded well on that play..figured he just isn't used to a guy a few inches taller than him so easily having his hand above him going up. Wasn't KP behind him? Anyway, I didn't get the impression he could have avoided that block with KP right on him. But ended up keeping the ball as you said and turning it into an assist on a 3, which ended up being even better.

[bigfoot]

Marion's high rebounds per 100 possessions was his 2nd year at 15.3, Ayton's low so far was his rookie year and it was 15.9 and is currently at 19.5 this year(Barkley 's high was 18.7).

I was too young to really pay attention to the nuance of Barkley when he played but I do remember him be great a boxing out which neither Marion or Ayton do.

I feel Ayton's presence on the boards is more impactful than Marion's because he's usually occupying multiple opponents and still controlling the boards while Marion was better at chase down boards

Barkley could just jump out of the gym. He had massive glutes and could win the ball from almost anyone no matter how tall they were. The main thing was he just wanted the damn ball more than anyone else.

Watch on YouTube

[Slim Charless]

Marion's high rebounds per 100 possessions was his 2nd year at 15.3, Ayton's low so far was his rookie year and it was 15.9 and is currently at 19.5 this year(Barkley 's high was 18.7).

I was too young to really pay attention to the nuance of Barkley when he played but I do remember him be great a boxing out which neither Marion or Ayton do.

I feel Ayton's presence on the boards is more impactful than Marion's because he's usually occupying multiple opponents and still controlling the boards while Marion was better at chase down boards

Barkley could just jump out of the gym. He had massive glutes and could win the ball from almost anyone no matter how tall they were. The main thing was he just wanted the damn ball more than anyone else.

Watch on YouTube

I'm not taking away from anything Sir Charles did since he's probably my all-time favorite Sun....BUT back then they had some real scrubs. The difference in players and their talent and ability is night and day. Guys are much more athletic and smarter with how they play then back in the 90s.

Guys were tougher in Chuck's era but not as "good" at basketball. Crowder would've had a team back then to himself, much less someone like Ayton-who would've been 2nd all pro in the big man centric offenses of Barkley's day.

[Frank Lee]

No way marshmallow Ayton ‘dominates’ the glass in 70s 80s and into the 90s. Too many flat out beasts who were allowed the physical play not seen in today’s NBA. Was Ayton a better rebounder than Mo Lucas? Truck Robinson? Adams? Mark West? He might be leading in statland... but the pace and level of post/ interior play is far different than yrs ago, where there were actual ‘Power Forwards’ on about every team...along with even bigger Centers. So not on the same page Slim*

The way this game has changed/evolved makes it almost impossible to compare rebounding across decades. Shooting/scoring even needs an adjustment consideration from the reduced physicality. Perhaps the only true comparable stat from era to era is FT %.


* a nice list of big dudes who played in the 90s.... where would you rank our little big man?
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-90s-centers/ranker-nba

Ayton is doing what we need him to do. Rimjobbing him to up to another level (all NBA?) isn’t necessary.

[Revived]

Ayton is physically impressive and has offensive skills but plays with no effort and has no idea what's going on on the court 80% of the time. I'd have to imagine he's a frustrating player to watch if he's on your team.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2047599&start=220#p88493166

This was posted by a non Suns fan (NYK fan maybe?) during the game on Monday.

I just sort of laughed at the last sentence because it’s so true. Ayton has gotta be one of the most polarizing players we’ve had. Makes sense since he was a #1 overall pick. I’d guess roughly two thirds of the Suns fan base on the internet (here, twitter, reddit, other forums, ig etc) is beyond frustrated with him. And then there’s a third that tries to defend him every time with legit reason or whataboutism (again across all different internet platforms).

One thing I’ve noticed though is that Ayton doesn’t seem to be well respected at all really besides that one third of Suns fans. I’ve heard opposing teams commentators clown Ayton about every other game and opposing fans don’t think much of him based on what I’ve seen social media. Well our commentators like EJ and Chambers also routinely call out his effort, focus and softness as well. Even here, on the trade forum and GB, I don’t think anyone thinks Ayton is worth trading a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft (hypothetically if he was on the block). This can actually help us when it comes to contract extension time as he likely won’t be getting any big offers from other teams so should be able to keep him on a reasonable team friendly deal imo.

Ayton’s amazing physical characteristics almost work against him. Offensively he doesn’t dominate the way that a player with his strength and size should so he’s always going to look underwhelming taking fadeaway jumpers (which didn’t look bad when Dirk or LMA was taking them which again shows the difference that physical appearance makes).

He’s shown that he is capable of being aggressive offensively but just in very spurts. This was a play I noted when watching the game and if he can just consistently play with this type of mentality for even half of his 30 mins/game then he can be an All Star big.

Spoiler:

Defensively, he’s been pretty good. His individual defense has gotten better and he’s giving more effort to protect the rim. One thing he still needs to is not guard his man off ball so tight and drop down instead to protect the rim when his guy doesn’t have the ball. Even if it’s a shooter (like Porzingis) he has to trust his close out or the rotation imo. I noticed Eddie Johnson talking about this few games ago and then CP3 was apparently yelling at him about it on it the court as well (one of the Suns media guys tweeted about it). This confusion was what led to 3 or 4 wide open layups for the Mavs where it was obvious there was a breakdown.

If he can fix that, then there really aren’t any defensive holes in his game.

Considering how awful he looked a week or two ago when most of Arizona wanted him gone and Gambo of all people had to come to his defense, I think he’s improved quite a bit.

[Saberestar]

No way marshmallow Ayton ‘dominates’ the glass in 70s 80s and into the 90s. Too many flat out beasts who were allowed the physical play not seen in today’s NBA. Was Ayton a better rebounder than Mo Lucas? Truck Robinson? Adams? Mark West? He might be leading in statland... but the pace and level of post/ interior play is far different than yrs ago, where there were actual ‘Power Forwards’ on about every team...along with even bigger Centers. So not on the same page Slim*

The way this game has changed/evolved makes it almost impossible to compare rebounding across decades. Shooting/scoring even needs an adjustment consideration from the reduced physicality. Perhaps the only true comparable stat from era to era is FT %.


* a nice list of big dudes who played in the 90s.... where would you rank our little big man?
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-90s-centers/ranker-nba

Ayton is doing what we need him to do. Rimjobbing him to up to another level (all NBA?) isn’t necessary.

Every era has his pros and his cons, now the league is way more talented but less physical.

To be a great rebounder nowadays you need to have a nice mobility, there are a lot of 3p shots attempted every game. At the 80s and 90s rebounding was more about pushing and grabbing bodies around the rim. That is not allowed anymore, so some players from those years would not be successful these days.

Players like Capela and Gobert would have been considered thin and would have struggled to rebound in the 90s, but NOW they are perfect to rebound consistently.

Ayton is right there with them and he helps a lot every single game on that aspect of the game. And he does that for 32 mpg, not like some specialists that only help primary in one area for around 18 mpg (Robert Williams now or Mark West in the past...for example).

[bwgood77]

As for other teams, I saw that post on the Knicks forum, but have been reading all analysts and other game threads and the vast majority...probably 80% of neutral or the best analysts love what they see from him, even the best Suns ones like David Kevin and others though the analysts admit inconsistencies.

But most of the analysts focus on things like defensive improvement in areas, great passer and vision at finding the open man, the improved staying in front of guys at the rim, blocking the shot and holding onto the ball after the block, the impressive rebounding at his age, etc. And we've seen the offensive aggression vastly improving over the the last 8 games or so.

Most fans still focus strictly on offense though and that isn't what I care most about with centers, so I and most of the analysts look at that, as the league has gone away from offensive centers and wanted defensive guys that can switch and don't get useless in the playoffs like Gobert or Capela.

They also know he is better than all but about 2 centers to come in the league at his age, which is impressive.

There are frustrating things, especially before the recent stretch like lack of dunking, and his hands have regressed, but he is also facing way more defensive attention and gravity that helps the team immensely.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Marion's high rebounds per 100 possessions was his 2nd year at 15.3, Ayton's low so far was his rookie year and it was 15.9 and is currently at 19.5 this year(Barkley 's high was 18.7).

I was too young to really pay attention to the nuance of Barkley when he played but I do remember him be great a boxing out which neither Marion or Ayton do.

I feel Ayton's presence on the boards is more impactful than Marion's because he's usually occupying multiple opponents and still controlling the boards while Marion was better at chase down boards

Barkley could just jump out of the gym. He had massive glutes and could win the ball from almost anyone no matter how tall they were. The main thing was he just wanted the damn ball more than anyone else.

Watch on YouTube

Chuck had an awesome feel for rebounding. Some guys just have an inate sense for the timing and positioning needed to get the ball. I think people sometimes underestimate rebounding as an actual skill. It's one of the stats that best translate from college to pros because guys who can board can just board no matter the competition.



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[bwgood77]

Marion's high rebounds per 100 possessions was his 2nd year at 15.3, Ayton's low so far was his rookie year and it was 15.9 and is currently at 19.5 this year(Barkley 's high was 18.7).

I was too young to really pay attention to the nuance of Barkley when he played but I do remember him be great a boxing out which neither Marion or Ayton do.

I feel Ayton's presence on the boards is more impactful than Marion's because he's usually occupying multiple opponents and still controlling the boards while Marion was better at chase down boards

Barkley could just jump out of the gym. He had massive glutes and could win the ball from almost anyone no matter how tall they were. The main thing was he just wanted the damn ball more than anyone else.

Watch on YouTube

Chuck had an awesome feel for rebounding. Some guys just have an inate sense for the timing and positioning needed to get the ball. I think people sometimes underestimate rebounding as an actual skill. It's one of the stats that best translate from college to pros because guys who can board can just board no matter the competition.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

He had a unique way of using his butt to knock the guy he was going against for the rebound too. His wingspan was 5 inches longer than his height as well which obviously helped.