FloridaMan78 wrote: Yea I think that’s what his reasonable value is right now. Young player, future draft pick and filler.
Really? I mean the Bulls forum is pondering Pwill, one of Coby White of Ayo Dosunmu and the Portland pick for Grant... Pwill has been much better than Jalen before the injury, and either one of the guards could be a good scorer off the bench by the looks of them so far. Add the Portland pick (could be gold in the future), and I think none of the offers we can make snifs that... Just my 2c... if you guys rather want our package, so be it...
Yea honestly most Pistons fans would be happy with just Pwill lol. I think Grant’s value is a bit overstated
Not for a contender. I think you are pessimistic on his value, but I guess we'll see if/when he eventually gets moved.
FloridaMan78 wrote:Pistons fan here, I come in peace. I hope the Pistons are scouting Smith closely. We have a hole at center, Isaiah Stewart is showing to be more of an energy guy off the bench. We signed Olynyk to a 3year 37 mil contract. I could see us overpaying for Jalen Smith. Is there a trade possible for him?
The Suns or whichever team trades for him now will not be able to offer him more than $4.6M next season, so I would recommend the Pistons to stay pat an offer him a contract as an UFA in the summer.
Well that’s pretty important.
Yeah, I don't know why many here think Jalen has much trade value. He is an UFA after this year and the team that trades for him is at a disadvantage on what they can offer. I don't think he will be offered more than that, but it's possible given his age and upside..he was top rebounder in summer league and can block shots and has range...pretty nice skills for a PF.
But Pistons could just sign him outright in offseason without trading for him if they wanted him (unless he wants to stay with the Suns or go elsewhere, but that would be the case even if you traded for him).
Ghost of Kleine wrote: Actually I had a 3 team trade that would benefit everyone that I was discussing with some people on the trade board. Phoenix/ Detroit/ Atlanta:
Detroit- Shamet and Smith. Shamet is a perfect offensive compliment to Cades' defense. Smith is a great frontcourt compliment to Stewart and adds center depth.
Atlanta- Cory Joseph/ Payton /(PHX 2024 lotto protected first). Atlanta needs legitimate point guard depth.
Phoenix- Delon Wright/ Hamidou Diallo/ Trey Lyles/ Shariffe Cooper. - Delon Wright is an upgrade to Payton, he's got solid sizeat 6'5, is good defensively, is a decent passer, and is shooting37% from three. Which Payton can'tdo for us. ( 9 million expiring).
- Diallo is a strong at driving to the rim, is a very good defender and has supreme athleticism and great length at 6'5 with a 6'11 wingspan.
- Tre Lyles is an adequate big with food size at 6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan. He's a decent floor spacing big, and is a good rotational defender and defensive rebounder.
- Shariffe Cooper is an absolute genius orchestrator and playmaking savant. Very fast with an elite handle. He'd be the perfect prodigy for Paul to mentor. Best of all, All are expiring contracts. So with all of these contracts coming off the books next season, We'd save around $15 million in cap space next season.
This is a horrible trade for the Suns IMO.
Yeah...we are leading the NBA next to the Warriors with an amazing 29W-8L record and we need to bring FOUR new players, three of them who can't play decent minutes at all on the Pistons or Hawks. Oh my...
We can't even fit 4 new guys with only 2 going out into our roster. So luckily a small thing called reailty is usually in the way of most of these trades...
Boy! You're just all kinds of salty these days when it comes to my posts huh?...lol I don't want you to suffer so much anguish though, So maybe try not reading them if they give you such stress.
As for fitting 4 guys with only two going out, You might want to check the post again. You might have missed the part wherein it had 3 players going out ( Smith/ Shamet/ Payton) not two. Also, Cooper represents a minimum two-way salary option. He's making just over $400,000 total. So in case the math in this is somewhat difficult, it breaks down like this:
1 - Diallo would replace Shamet. 2 - Lyles would replace Smith. 3 - Wright would replace Payton. ( 3 outgoing for 3 incoming)! See how that works? ** Cooper could occupy (for now at least) the other available two way spot (vacated by Hutchinson). **And if someone we like better comes along, we simply waive Cooper from our two way slot. And Biyombo is already signed to our available roster spot. So is that really so difficult to digest? BONUS!! At the end of the season, all of these players come off the books. So we now have around 15 million in additional cap space to resign Mcgee ( unless that's no longer important)?? Make roster alterations, put towards Johnson's extension, etc. Whilst potentially getting us further under the LT.
Good thing reality also allows for people to re read things for better understanding and clarity sometimes too.
FloridaMan78 wrote: Yea not much lol. Hami Diallo has played well lately, but he still can’t shoot. It would probably have to be a three team trade with someone that wants Grant or we wait for free agency.
Actually I had a 3 team trade that would benefit everyone that I was discussing with some people on the trade board. Phoenix/ Detroit/ Atlanta:
Detroit- Shamet and Smith. Shamet is a perfect offensive compliment to Cades' defense. Smith is a great frontcourt compliment to Stewart and adds center depth.
Atlanta- Cory Joseph/ Payton /(PHX 2024 lotto protected first). Atlanta needs legitimate point guard depth.
Phoenix- Delon Wright/ Hamidou Diallo/ Trey Lyles/ Shariffe Cooper. - Delon Wright is an upgrade to Payton, he's got solid sizeat 6'5, is good defensively, is a decent passer, and is shooting37% from three. Which Payton can'tdo for us. ( 9 million expiring).
- Diallo is a strong at driving to the rim, is a very good defender and has supreme athleticism and great length at 6'5 with a 6'11 wingspan.
- Tre Lyles is an adequate big with food size at 6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan. He's a decent floor spacing big, and is a good rotational defender and defensive rebounder.
- Shariffe Cooper is an absolute genius orchestrator and playmaking savant. Very fast with an elite handle. He'd be the perfect prodigy for Paul to mentor. Best of all, All are expiring contracts. So with all of these contracts coming off the books next season, We'd save around $15 million in cap space next season.
Although that Shamet contract is a negative, I think that’s a tough deal to pass up for Det.
Actually after this season's 3.7 million, His contract is only guaranteed for his first two yrs. Then it's unguaranteed in yr 3 and a club option in yr 4. So you guys would really only be on the hook for the two yrs. And if he reclaims his value/ shooting ( which he surely will) then his contract will be considered value. I also love his offensive fit next to Cade. They could form a very solid young backcourt I believe.
Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted: The Suns had two surprising pieces step up when called upon: Bismack Biyombo and Jalen Smith.
After Phoenix signed Biyombo to a new deal today, attention now turns to what happens with the 2020 lottery pick before the trade deadline (via @basketbllnews): https://t.co/PLti8FzRMD
Kellan Olson (@KellanOlson) Tweeted: Chris Paul said he's in Jalen Smith's ear all game long and that he's the most proud of him with what they've had to go through the last few weeks. Is glad Smith is getting a chance to see all the little details and co-signed the progress he's making each game at those things.
Bad luck Jalen was not scoring like that in summer league and both DA and McGee are out at the same time so he can showcase the improvement in his game and put big numbers. I doubt Suns have many options to keep him now. Maybe backload his next contract and promise him 20+ mins. They would need to get rid of Saric, Crowder and Shamet to pay for DA, Jalen and Cam J.
Lol, some reverse common sense?!.! We can only offer him like 4.7 or something like that, this off-season, because we didn't pick up his option but another team can offer whatever!! So we need to trade him, SO WE can offer him whatever this off-season!!! LMFAO!!
sunsbg wrote:Bad luck Jalen was not scoring like that in summer league and both DA and McGee are out at the same time so he can showcase the improvement in his game and put big numbers. I doubt Suns have many options to keep him now. Maybe backload his next contract and promise him 20+ mins. They would need to get rid of Saric, Crowder and Shamet to pay for DA, Jalen and Cam J.
To be fair, we had garbage for point guards in the summer league. Jalen is benefitting greatly from playing with Paul and Booker, with wings like Mikal and Johnson. Players have to honor all those shooters, which gives Jalen a ton of room to work inside. And then when he is outside, all those guys can drive and dish.
Q ....what’s worse than a stinker Ghost trade post ? A ....the repeated ones justifying the deal
Not a salcap guy, so may be this is wrong. We are over the cap right? So we have vet minimums, a biAnnual exception, and a Mid level deal to offer. Smith would either take the vet min or we’d have to use one of those exceptions? And furthermore, we can’t pay him more than his original deal? Can the MLE be split among two players?
There are a lot of back up Cs making less than 5 mill per.
Might come down to how much he wants to be here more so than how bad we want him. Doesn’t quite look like this one was in Jones’ playbook.
Fo-Real wrote:Lol, some reverse common sense?!.! We can only offer him like 4.7 or something like that, this off-season, because we didn't pick up his option but another team can offer whatever!! So we need to trade him, SO WE can offer him whatever this off-season!!! LMFAO!!
But we can't offer him a significant role here. Other teams could. We can't afford to overpay Jalen. We still have DA and a Johnson extension. If we were to trade him, its highly unlikely we would be in any position to offer him anything. But it seems pretty moot right now, since I don't think we are trading him.
It was both a mistake to draft him and a mistake to decline his option and kill all trade value. That said, Jalen Smith is not worth more than 4.7 million regardless of his hot streak. If someone wants to pay him that then good for them but he will never be more than a backup C for this team.
sunsbg wrote:Bad luck Jalen was not scoring like that in summer league and both DA and McGee are out at the same time so he can showcase the improvement in his game and put big numbers. I doubt Suns have many options to keep him now. Maybe backload his next contract and promise him 20+ mins. They would need to get rid of Saric, Crowder and Shamet to pay for DA, Jalen and Cam J.
It is crazy though because he was basically averaging a double/ double still. And even made all summer league first team too. But you're absolutely right that he wasn't shooting as well or hitting threes to the extent (percentages) that he is currently. It was truly a poor choice by Monty to not find minutes for him right out of the gate. But in fairness, he was most likely feeling the pressure from Saver and to a lesser extent Jones being a mouthpiece for Savers' directives. Instructing him to prioritize veterans getting all of the minutes in interest of contention!
What's even crazier is in that absent of the Covid protocols, Smith still would've likely been anchored to the bench without us ever knowing how good he truly can be until we see him perform on another team after he leaves in free agency.
Frank Lee wrote:Q ....what’s worse than a stinker Ghost trade post ? A ....the repeated ones justifying the deal
Not a salcap guy, so may be this is wrong. We are over the cap right? So we have vet minimums, a biAnnual exception, and a Mid level deal to offer. Smith would either take the vet min or we’d have to use one of those exceptions? And furthermore, we can’t pay him more than his original deal? Can the MLE be split among two players?
There are a lot of back up Cs making less than 5 mill per.
Might come down to how much he wants to be here more so than how bad we want him. Doesn’t quite look like this one was in Jones’ playbook.
Q ....what’s worse than a stinker Ghost trade post ? A ....the repeated ones justifying the deal
Thank you for sharing your perspective! Duly noted and disregarded.
Fo-Real wrote:Lol, some reverse common sense?!.! We can only offer him like 4.7 or something like that, this off-season, because we didn't pick up his option but another team can offer whatever!! So we need to trade him, SO WE can offer him whatever this off-season!!! LMFAO!!
But we can't offer him a significant role here. Other teams could. We can't afford to overpay Jalen. We still have DA and a Johnson extension. If we were to trade him, its highly unlikely we would be in any position to offer him anything. But it seems pretty moot right now, since I don't think we are trading him.
...and that's a mistake if we're just gonna lose him for nothing. You can say keep him for our playoff run but the reality is he won't be getting mins behind Ayton and McGee. The best option is to make chicken salad out of chicken **** (our chicken **** owner would be great but can't trade him).
We have 2 big holes PF and a true PGOTF.
So, Detroit is an obvious destination for him but they wouldn't trade him for Grant. However they probably would trade 20 yr old former top 6 Killian Hayes for him.
I'd do that. Hayes is young and can learn behind CP3. Won't get much burn this year, but in the summer we move Payne and let Hayes take over. He still doesn't turn 21 till June (!!!!) So he'll have plenty of time left and we will have his rookie rights.
I think Detroit does it too as they aren't using him and Cade plays the same position.
I don't see a team giving up assets for Jalen right now, especially a team on track to get a high pick in the draft. They could just ride the season out, and offer Smith a decent contract (if they really like him). We may very well lose him for nothing, and I agree that sucks. But we put ourselves in that position by not picking up the option.
At this point, we can only hope that he continues to give productive minutes when called upon, that he enjoys learning from our coaches and players, and is willing to return for that $4.6 mil we can offer him.
RunDogGun wrote:I don't see a team giving up assets for Jalen right now, especially a team on track to get a high pick in the draft. They could just ride the season out, and offer Smith a decent contract (if they really like him). We may very well lose him for nothing, and I agree that sucks. But we put ourselves in that position by not picking up the option.
At this point, we can only hope that he continues to give productive minutes when called upon, that he enjoys learning from our coaches and players, and is willing to return for that $4.6 mil we can offer him.
Is Hayes that much of an asset for them? They aren't benching Cade and it's not like he's shown that much. Honestly its similar to our situation with Stix-before he started to show off. Only difference is Hayes has gotten more mins.
He's a sunk cost if he stays there imo, but with us under Chris he can be a reclamation project.
Detroit does it to avoid exactly what you said about him wanting to stay and wins titles, they also can get him on the team so maybe he'll like it there. Then maybe they won't have to overpay in the summer.
See how that works? 
