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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#401 » by SunsRback4Good » Sat Mar 22, 2025 5:31 pm

sunsfan1o1 wrote:I think this team is 2nd or best team in the West. However we had a bad 2.5 months due to injuries and coach panicking because of early season struggles.
Took Beal out the starting lineup. Stopped playing Dunn and Oso.
Strange rotations.
Looks like coach might be figuring it out finally although it might be too late to save the season. Then we will make more roster changes and more employee turnover equals more early season struggles.
Need to keep KD and Booker.
Test the Beal waters again but keep him if teams try to disrespect.
Make small changes like trading Allen for more length and 3 and D type of player.
Add more energy/hustle players to make up for Booker and KDs laziness since they only seem to play with energy on offense they can save more of their energy for scoring.


Yes, 2nd best in the west when we started the season 9-2 in first couple of weeks. But after that we been playing like garbage, but kind of picked it up last few weeks chasing for the final play-in spot.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#402 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Mar 22, 2025 5:39 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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I don't know how the Suns can catch anymore incredible breaks as they're catching currently! But this stretch is theirs to lose if they keep being this lucky with opponent's being injured or missing a ton of shots they'd normally make.

They'd really better cash in on these gifts from the basketball gods! And not throw away any more golden opportunities as they have all season.

That’s not true at all.

On back-to-back the Kings rested Sabonis on one game and he played against the Suns on the other one.

The same happened with the Bulls and Giddey. They played him @ Phoenix and rested him @Sacramento.

And tonight we played against a FULLY healthy Cavaliers.

Yeah, most teams have injures and some are resting players but that's happening for every team in the league.


How can you not say it's a true statement man.

1- Sacramento. The night that Sabonis played he WAS ABSOLUTELY STILL INJURED with hamstring issues and was a shadow of himself. Couldn't even move well. He only had 12 points, well below his season average, And the team wasn't even playing well either.

They couldn't hit threes to save their life (only shot 25% on the night). And obviously were gassed with having almost 20 turnovers. Those are clearly breaks in our favor!

2- The Bulls. Is Josh Giddey at all a star level player or franchise level talent? Does Chicago even have that after the Lavine trade? No! Their star player is Buzelis. They are a lottery team with solid rotation level players but no true superstars or franchise level talent like we have.

Also, They missed a bunch of free throws only shooting 66% on the night, but the clear disparity that should be considered here is the huge talent gap between the two teams. We beat them in number of shots, in rebounds, in number of FTs, in assists, in steals, had almost 10 more points made from FTs, etc.

But again, we're on a whole different level talent wise! DBook going nuclear is a very clear example of this. We beat a lottery team with no true stars or superstars. And even then, we only beat them by 6 freaking points with Booker scoring 41 points. And beating them in all those categories.

3- Cleveland. A great and inspiring game that is a very solid win. But context is important in all things! This game was a great win, HOWEVER, Did we play the Cavs at their true strength/ best levels of play? How often do they struggle shooting like they did against us last night? How often does D Mitchell only score 7 points or Mobley struggle as he did or the majority of their team only score in single digits??

Every team has off nights! And to claim that Cleveland was any where near their best playing as they did and coming in off a 3 game losing streak last night would be wholly disingenuous.

Don't get things twisted though man! Am I glad they won in dominant fashion? Again.... YES!!!! It's great to see it happen. But were we also lucky that their stars and team struggled and had an off night against us ( with their team in a recent funk)?

Also yes! We handled our business last night! But again context matters. And the very obvious much much larger sample size speaks to what this team truly is.

I mean you do understand that we're 71 games in already and still an under .500 team just fighting to make the play in!!! What should that key detail tell you? We gave some great inspiring wins for sure here and there.


But we have absolutely caught a lot of lucky breaks throughout this recent 3 game win streak! The facts are what they are.

As the saying goes, two things can be true at once! We have had some really good anomalous wins! But our overall record and context of our few great wins indicates that we're not a true playoff team/ contender. Sure every team has or has had injuries, but we caught teams without their star players being healthy or playing without any true superstars or talent close to ours.

Or clearly struggling/ having an off night shooting, rebounding, etc. But our off nights (as indicated by our record) are clearly much more frequent! So we've caught incredible breaks against certain teams) if this wasn't true in any capacity, our record would reflect much differently man!


So yes, we've caught some lucky breaks contextually in these 3 recent wins! We can celebrate more competitive showings and trending in a more positive direction.

Lastly, I've stated that we can't throw away any more Golden opportunities, which we clearly have throughout the majority of the season up until recently! If this wasn't true, we wouldn't be fighting to hold onto the 10th seed and just trying to make the play in tournament.

So no lies detected in what I've said. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#403 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Mar 22, 2025 6:13 pm

dcoop wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


I don't know how the Suns can catch anymore incredible breaks as they're catching currently! But this stretch is theirs to lose if they keep being this lucky with opponent's being injured or missing a ton of shots they'd normally make.

They'd really better cash in on these gifts from.the basketball gods! And not throw away any more Golden opportunities as they have all season.



They didn’t catch a break with Cleveland. We were actually down big Nick.

Bud finally playing better rotations. This team finally looks like they should. KD will be gone this summer and hopefully Beal. Add some good young players around Book.


They didn't huh?
So The Cavs this season have had how many 3 game losing streaks? Donovan Mitchell has only scored 7 points in a game? How many times has Jarrett Allen been a single digit non factor for them, how often has Mobley struggled through multiple quarters to score efficiently and/ or struggled defensively? How often this season has their teams starters struggled to reach double digit scoring in the first 3 quarters?

As many say..................... Two things can be true at the same time! We played an awesome and exceptional inspiring game. Also, The Cavs team we played last night were not at their true best form. Bow can we still celebrate it as a great win? Absolutely yes! We came in and took care of business! Which is what we should have done all season but haven't!

But context is still important. And anyone claiming that the Cavs team we beat last night is the same team that win 16 straight games is either deluding themselves or being deliberately disingenuous. We beat a team with the best record in the NBA that is currently clearly in a funk.

And although I completely agree with you that Bud finally playing the younger players and better rotations played a huge part in our winning in impressive fashion. If any of those contextual factors mentioned above hadn't happened as they did, then our outcome would've likely been much different. And ultimately similar to our first meeting??

So yeah, we beat the Cavs and showed much better potential for competitive improvement! But we absolutely have caught some incredible breaks in our favor too.

And again, as I previously stated, we'd better not continue giving away Golden opportunities, because we clearly have all season. This is one example of us actually capitalizing on a distinct advantage as we absolutely should be doing! Nothing I've said should be at all controversial for this team given what they've shown in a much larger sample.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#404 » by They_Them_Hatin » Sat Mar 22, 2025 6:30 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dcoop wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


I don't know how the Suns can catch anymore incredible breaks as they're catching currently! But this stretch is theirs to lose if they keep being this lucky with opponent's being injured or missing a ton of shots they'd normally make.

They'd really better cash in on these gifts from.the basketball gods! And not throw away any more Golden opportunities as they have all season.



They didn’t catch a break with Cleveland. We were actually down big Nick.

Bud finally playing better rotations. This team finally looks like they should. KD will be gone this summer and hopefully Beal. Add some good young players around Book.


They didn't huh?
So The Cavs this season have had how many 3 game losing streaks? Donovan Mitchell has only scored 7 points in a game? How many times has Jarrett Allen been a single digit non factor for them, how often has Mobley struggled through multiple quarters to score efficiently and/ or struggled defensively? How often this season has their teams starters struggled to reach double digit scoring in the first 3 quarters?

As many say..................... Two things can be true at the same time! We played an awesome and exceptional inspiring game. Also, The Cavs team we played last night were not at their true best form. Bow can we still celebrate it as a great win? Absolutely yes! We came in and took care of business! Which is what we should have done all season but haven't!

But context is still important. And anyone claiming that the Cavs team we beat last night is the same team that win 16 straight games is either deluding themselves or being deliberately disingenuous. We beat a team with the best record in the NBA that is currently clearly in a funk.

And although I completely agree with you that Bud finally playing the younger players and better rotations played a huge part in our winning in impressive fashion. If any of those contextual factors mentioned above hadn't happened as they did, then our outcome would've likely been much different. And ultimately similar to our first meeting??

So yeah, we beat the Cavs and showed much better potential for competitive improvement! But we absolutely have caught some incredible breaks in our favor too.

And again, as I previously stated, we'd better not continue giving away Golden opportunities, because we clearly have all season. This is one example of us actually capitalizing on a distinct advantage as we absolutely should be doing! Nothing I've said should be at all controversial for this team given what they've shown in a much larger sample.

You don’t bet I see. Mitchell has scored under 12 a lot this year. :lol: He’s been banned.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#405 » by They_Them_Hatin » Sat Mar 22, 2025 6:47 pm

Speaking of Mitchell, didn’t all the “experts” say last year he was gone? That him and Garland hated each other and couldn’t play with each other? He wanted to play with his bff Bam in Miami? Not only did he resign with Cleveland, him and Garland learned to play with each other, he’s sacrificed his stats and took a backseat to Mobley and Garland and now the Cavs are the number one team in the league. So I don’t think it’s a done deal KD will be traded in the off season. Especially if Philly comes knocking about a PG & picks for Beal swap.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#406 » by Saberestar » Sat Mar 22, 2025 7:45 pm

Sam Cooper from The Timeline

This data is just really hard to stomach.

Book, KD, Beal together: -3.6 net rating
Book, KD, no Beal: +5.8
Beal, Book, no KD: -15.4
Beal, KD, no Book: -16.2

300+ min sample size for each combo. And 1 common denominator.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#407 » by Saberestar » Sat Mar 22, 2025 7:46 pm

Gillespie + Dunn + Oso = The Gauchos.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#408 » by Slim Charless » Sat Mar 22, 2025 10:09 pm

KdoubleDees23 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I get that. But if the goal is to win a title and trading Booker gets you closer to that title-- why not explore it

I wouldn't trade Booker just to trade him. The trade has to make sense. But as you wrote above, they will be a tread mill team


I am saying to trade him. It was kind of a joke to say he led a bunch of bad teams. Paul brought the team and players together to play smart team ball with great chemistry, but Ishbia blew that team up that had gone to the championship and won 64 games and had a young core with all their picks.

I think a lot of people actually do have an affinity for Book because he was the only bright spot through like 5-6 of a very bad time for the Suns. Then he finally was great in a nice playoff run to the finals and some other series.


Trading booker doesn't get us closer to the title. Trading book gets us 2 players that aren't as good as Booker, and 2 first round picks that we will need to develop and make into stars. Having a foundation with Book, and trading KD for 1 role player and 1 above average on the verge of all star younger player that fit around book and 2 draft picks, gets you closer to the championship


Durant is done here. Hopefully Ish has a little bit if business acumen and is downplaying the Booker issue to build up value. Detroit would likely give any non Cade asset for him.

3 firsts plus Ausar, Stewart and Ivey seems completely doable to me. Add in there Durant to HOU for Jabari, Reed and 2 of our firsts back also seems realistic.

Ivey
Beal
Ausar
Jabari
Stewart

Dunn/Grayson/Oso/Reed off the bench with whoever we draft this year (maybe a shooter like Koby?). That's a pretty good team to me. Let Beal gun his way to 25ppg or so and hopefully move him to a contender next trade deadline.

We can only hope.

Need to make the play-in/playoffs this year....and get humiliated on a national scale. Swept and beaten by double digits each game.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#409 » by Hitachi77 » Sat Mar 22, 2025 10:25 pm

Hopefully we all agree that Beal shouldn’t start when he gets back. At this point he probably shouldn’t even come off the bench. Just ride the run we are on and see what happens. It’s unfortunate because we should be a 4/5 seed, but now we have to beat Sac then a very tough road game vs either Minnesota or LAC (assuming we keep the 10). Again, not saying we are a contender, but would have been fun to see what they can do at least. Still can, just in a very tough spot.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#410 » by SunsRback4Good » Sat Mar 22, 2025 10:41 pm

Hitachi77 wrote:Hopefully we all agree that Beal shouldn’t start when he gets back. At this point he probably shouldn’t even come off the bench. Just ride the run we are on and see what happens. It’s unfortunate because we should be a 4/5 seed, but now we have to beat Sac then a very tough road game vs either Minnesota or LAC (assuming we keep the 10). Again, not saying we are a contender, but would have been fun to see what they can do at least. Still can, just in a very tough spot.


Do you think we can upset OKC if we manage to finish 8th?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#411 » by Puff » Sat Mar 22, 2025 11:14 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
KdoubleDees23 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I am saying to trade him. It was kind of a joke to say he led a bunch of bad teams. Paul brought the team and players together to play smart team ball with great chemistry, but Ishbia blew that team up that had gone to the championship and won 64 games and had a young core with all their picks.

I think a lot of people actually do have an affinity for Book because he was the only bright spot through like 5-6 of a very bad time for the Suns. Then he finally was great in a nice playoff run to the finals and some other series.


Trading booker doesn't get us closer to the title. Trading book gets us 2 players that aren't as good as Booker, and 2 first round picks that we will need to develop and make into stars. Having a foundation with Book, and trading KD for 1 role player and 1 above average on the verge of all star younger player that fit around book and 2 draft picks, gets you closer to the championship


Durant is done here. Hopefully Ish has a little bit if business acumen and is downplaying the Booker issue to build up value. Detroit would likely give any non Cade asset for him.

3 firsts plus Ausar, Stewart and Ivey seems completely doable to me. Add in there Durant to HOU for Jabari, Reed and 2 of our firsts back also seems realistic.

Ivey
Beal
Ausar
Jabari
Stewart

Dunn/Grayson/Oso/Reed off the bench with whoever we draft this year (maybe a shooter like Koby?). That's a pretty good team to me. Let Beal gun his way to 25ppg or so and hopefully move him to a contender next trade deadline.

We can only hope.

Need to make the play-in/playoffs this year....and get humiliated on a national scale. Swept and beaten by double digits each game.


And you suggest that you support the Phoenix Suns. All you want to do is trade everyone.

We have just played the best week of basketball that we have seen all season. Bud, the coach you want to keep. Finally started a group of players that want to play defense and rebound. Why did it take him so long to put this group on the floor? KD is playing like he is 30. I do not care what they do I will support them. I can see Ishbia keeping KD and letting the youngsters grow with him and Booker. To decimate the team down to only keeping Beal could be a disaster. Keeping KD and Book with a few good additions to the group of Dunn, Oso, Gillespie, Martin and possibly Richards could be pretty good with the right coach. KD would be the only player over 30 and he is fun to watch when he is not making stupid turnovers. He is one of the greatest players of all time and we have him. I know that is not a popular decision, so be it.

Before this week we had no one crashing the boards and our opponents were shooting wide open 3 pointers. We now are rebounding and not allowing wide open looks for 48 minutes. We are playing winning basketball. Who knows, we could lose the 11 or 12 games that we play. I prefer to watch and make the decisions on the roster when the season is over. Right now, I could care less about trades or the draft. I just hope they continue playing like they have been for the past 5 games.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#412 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Mar 22, 2025 11:20 pm

They_Them_Hatin wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
dcoop wrote:

They didn’t catch a break with Cleveland. We were actually down big Nick.

Bud finally playing better rotations. This team finally looks like they should. KD will be gone this summer and hopefully Beal. Add some good young players around Book.


They didn't huh?
So The Cavs this season have had how many 3 game losing streaks? Donovan Mitchell has only scored 7 points in a game? How many times has Jarrett Allen been a single digit non factor for them, how often has Mobley struggled through multiple quarters to score efficiently and/ or struggled defensively? How often this season has their teams starters struggled to reach double digit scoring in the first 3 quarters?

As many say..................... Two things can be true at the same time! We played an awesome and exceptional inspiring game. Also, The Cavs team we played last night were not at their true best form. Bow can we still celebrate it as a great win? Absolutely yes! We came in and took care of business! Which is what we should have done all season but haven't!

But context is still important. And anyone claiming that the Cavs team we beat last night is the same team that win 16 straight games is either deluding themselves or being deliberately disingenuous. We beat a team with the best record in the NBA that is currently clearly in a funk.

And although I completely agree with you that Bud finally playing the younger players and better rotations played a huge part in our winning in impressive fashion. If any of those contextual factors mentioned above hadn't happened as they did, then our outcome would've likely been much different. And ultimately similar to our first meeting??

So yeah, we beat the Cavs and showed much better potential for competitive improvement! But we absolutely have caught some incredible breaks in our favor too.

And again, as I previously stated, we'd better not continue giving away Golden opportunities, because we clearly have all season. This is one example of us actually capitalizing on a distinct advantage as we absolutely should be doing! Nothing I've said should be at all controversial for this team given what they've shown in a much larger sample.


"You don’t bet I see. Mitchell has scored under 12 a lot this year. :lol: He’s been banned.


You don’t bet I see." ( I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say here man?

But to your statement that he's scored under 12 points a lot this year.
..............What's his season average again man?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html

Pretty close to 24 points 4 rebounds and 5 assists.

So yeah, again not close to his regular output. And he's scored under 12 points a total of 5 times in 71 games! So not at all a lot this year unless you're saying 5 times out of 71 is a lot or something? That's only 7.04% of the time.

And only 2 games total in single digits this season as well!

Obviously 7% just isn't much at all man. But even then, he's still obviously scoring well below his season average as I've shared.


So if he's not playing as well as he usually would (his season average), then that's a clear advantage. And so I don't misunderstand you, what has Mitchell been banned from exactly??
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#413 » by Hitachi77 » Sat Mar 22, 2025 11:27 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
Hitachi77 wrote:Hopefully we all agree that Beal shouldn’t start when he gets back. At this point he probably shouldn’t even come off the bench. Just ride the run we are on and see what happens. It’s unfortunate because we should be a 4/5 seed, but now we have to beat Sac then a very tough road game vs either Minnesota or LAC (assuming we keep the 10). Again, not saying we are a contender, but would have been fun to see what they can do at least. Still can, just in a very tough spot.


Do you think we can upset OKC if we manage to finish 8th?


Well it’s certainly a non zero chance. Keep in mind OKC is still unproven in the playoffs. They bowed out early last year.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#414 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sat Mar 22, 2025 11:36 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#415 » by Saberestar » Sat Mar 22, 2025 11:41 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
KdoubleDees23 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I am saying to trade him. It was kind of a joke to say he led a bunch of bad teams. Paul brought the team and players together to play smart team ball with great chemistry, but Ishbia blew that team up that had gone to the championship and won 64 games and had a young core with all their picks.

I think a lot of people actually do have an affinity for Book because he was the only bright spot through like 5-6 of a very bad time for the Suns. Then he finally was great in a nice playoff run to the finals and some other series.


Trading booker doesn't get us closer to the title. Trading book gets us 2 players that aren't as good as Booker, and 2 first round picks that we will need to develop and make into stars. Having a foundation with Book, and trading KD for 1 role player and 1 above average on the verge of all star younger player that fit around book and 2 draft picks, gets you closer to the championship


Durant is done here. Hopefully Ish has a little bit if business acumen and is downplaying the Booker issue to build up value. Detroit would likely give any non Cade asset for him.

3 firsts plus Ausar, Stewart and Ivey seems completely doable to me. Add in there Durant to HOU for Jabari, Reed and 2 of our firsts back also seems realistic.

Ivey
Beal
Ausar
Jabari
Stewart

Dunn/Grayson/Oso/Reed off the bench with whoever we draft this year (maybe a shooter like Koby?). That's a pretty good team to me. Let Beal gun his way to 25ppg or so and hopefully move him to a contender next trade deadline.

We can only hope.

Need to make the play-in/playoffs this year....and get humiliated on a national scale. Swept and beaten by double digits each game.

I wouldn't make any of these trades.

We need to pay attention to the present. The Suns are playing at a high level NOW. The new group on the court can change every decision in the summer.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#416 » by Slim Charless » Sun Mar 23, 2025 12:33 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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No Ware makes them less attractive an option.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#417 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Mar 23, 2025 1:06 am

Why do people post Evan Sidery, stop it get some help
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#418 » by Sunsdeuce » Sun Mar 23, 2025 1:28 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Why do people post Evan Sidery, stop it get some help

Thank you. I liked him when he began but he has become a regurgitator of information already out there.
I am such a lucky NBA fan. 8647 My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports fdt.

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#419 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Mar 23, 2025 1:54 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Why do people post Evan Sidery, stop it get some help


It's just information man! No need to get triggered by a simple tweet, so just get over it. Or if you don't like it so much simply scroll down and past it :wink:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#420 » by Ghost of Kleine » Sun Mar 23, 2025 2:06 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


No Ware makes them less attractive an option.


Yep! Without Ware, I'm much less interested in accommodating a KD/ Miami trade. And I sure as sh** wouldn't do a KD trade their taking back Wiggins 3 years either. If no ware is involved, the only way they're getting KD is if BOTH of their 25' 1sts (8th and 21st picks) are coming back and their 29' Miami 1st too alongside a package of:

Rozier- 24 million expiring.
Robinson- 19 million expiring.
Jovic.
Jacquez.
** That would give us $44 million in expirings to get under the 2nd apron or to use in other trades for other pieces ( players) and picks. And Jacquez and Jovic could also be trade assets ( maybe to Brooklyn or San Antonio)??? For more picks??

But without Ware, Miami would not be a top choice for me in a KD trade.
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