Is Hornacek the problem?

Post #421 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:07 pm

I wouldn't want Thibs at all. But McD and him have worked together before. As an assistant I'd be ok with.

Revived · Post #422 » by **Revived** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:40 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I wouldn't want Thibs at all. But McD and him have worked together before. As an assistant I'd be ok with.

Why not? He's an authoritarian coach and that's exactly what we need for our immature and young players. Plus he's a proven coach who has both regular season and playoff success.

We would be lucky to have him but again, I highly doubt Thibs would even consider the Suns.

DirtyDez · Post #423 » by **DirtyDez** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:14 am

You either have to fire Hornacek or get rid of the players that don't respect him. The rift cannot continue.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #424 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:10 am

Would Sarver let his team be run by an authoritarian defense first coach?

That would seem like his worst nightmare and the opposite of Hornacek.

Post #425 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:57 am

SF88 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I wouldn't want Thibs at all. But McD and him have worked together before. As an assistant I'd be ok with.

Why not? He's an authoritarian coach and that's exactly what we need for our immature and young players. Plus he's a proven coach who has both regular season and playoff success.

We would be lucky to have him but again, I highly doubt Thibs would even consider the Suns.

He's a good defensive coach, but he's played in the east when it has been the weakest it has ever been. They are finally at full strength and blowing a couple of games to MCW and the Greek Freak...not exactly savvy playoff veterans.

I'm just not a big fan.

Revived · Post #426 » by **Revived** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:18 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Would Sarver let his team be run by an authoritarian defense first coach?

That would seem like his worst nightmare and the opposite of Hornacek.

What's so bad about an authoritarian HC?

Post #427 » by **batsmasher** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:19 pm

SF88 wrote:Why not? He's an authoritarian coach and that's exactly what we need for our immature and young players. Plus he's a proven coach who has both regular season and playoff success.

I think we're beyond the point where we continue catering for our 'immature young guys'. Ship them off if Horny can't get them to fire. He can certainly coach.

Matt1979 · Post #428 » by **Matt1979** » Mon May 4, 2015 11:14 am

I think Hornacek is definitely the problem. The basketball the team play is dreadful.

The team I follow in the British Basketball League, which is mainly US ex-college players and Brits also play at a fast pace but the plays they run and the way they run them is way better than I've seen the Suns play in the last year.

Hornacek out.

drewsprocket · Post #429 » by **drewsprocket** » Tue May 5, 2015 2:34 am

Bad roster mgt...a three pg system ripped a hole in team solidarity from the year before and left leadership to whoever was the the loudest and most frustrated on the team. Hornacek isn't going to reign that in. Greg Popp with our roster last year wouldn't have had any difference. Honry will lead this team if he has at least some wise players and youth who want to grow under them. The most encouraging thing was our team has **** balls and passion (something missing on other squads). Hell, I'd offer KD a one year deal as much as we can offer just to teach our players how to win and channel their passion.

Mr-Al · Post #430 » by **Mr-Al** » Tue May 5, 2015 11:27 am

Most of the year I saw Philly playing with more energy, hustle, and effort than the Suns

only difference between the two teams was talent

If they got a bunch of Dleaguers to play like that, Horny should have been able to do the same with the Suns

TheBledShow · Post #431 » by **TheBledShow** » Tue May 5, 2015 4:26 pm

Suns are young most teams keep there whole team together and then make trades if they can get a superstar or star that upgrades and fits into there blue print. Should of kept frye, ish. A stretch 4 was huge in our offense last year for spacing, offensive sets, and mis matches. Ish was a good defender. No point in signing Isaiah I still don't get that. Than put 3 guards on a team with a clogged offense it's turnover city. Pj could of been replaced because of how similar sfs like Ariza and Deng are. But to be honest who wanted to come here?

Revived · Post #432 » by **Revived** » Wed May 6, 2015 6:31 am

bwgood77 wrote:
SF88 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I wouldn't want Thibs at all. But McD and him have worked together before. As an assistant I'd be ok with.

Why not? He's an authoritarian coach and that's exactly what we need for our immature and young players. Plus he's a proven coach who has both regular season and playoff success.

We would be lucky to have him but again, I highly doubt Thibs would even consider the Suns.

He's a good defensive coach, but he's played in the east when it has been the weakest it has ever been. They are finally at full strength and blowing a couple of games to MCW and the Greek Freak...not exactly savvy playoff veterans.

I'm just not a big fan.

Still he's responsible for making the Bulls relevant for the first time since the Jordan years.

I think the work that he could do with guys like Len and Bledsoe (if we keep him) would be special.

Post #433 » by **bwgood77** » Wed May 6, 2015 12:54 pm

SF88 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
SF88 wrote:Why not? He's an authoritarian coach and that's exactly what we need for our immature and young players. Plus he's a proven coach who has both regular season and playoff success.

We would be lucky to have him but again, I highly doubt Thibs would even consider the Suns.

He's a good defensive coach, but he's played in the east when it has been the weakest it has ever been. They are finally at full strength and blowing a couple of games to MCW and the Greek Freak...not exactly savvy playoff veterans.

I'm just not a big fan.

Still he's responsible for making the Bulls relevant for the first time since the Jordan years.

I think the work that he could do with guys like Len and Bledsoe (if we keep him) would be special.

Well, and so are the former MVP, Noah, Butler, Gasol, Mirotic, and last year we had the same record as them when they also had Deng. When they were the 1 seed their bench was stellar with Gibson, Asik and Korver.

I think we probably had less talent, or at a minimum a MUCH younger team than them last year and finished with the same record.

Revived · Post #434 » by **Revived** » Tue May 12, 2015 7:23 pm

Monty Williams fired after taking his team to playoffs....yet Hornacek is still here.

Matt1979 · Post #435 » by **Matt1979** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:02 pm

SF88 wrote:Monty Williams fired after taking his team to playoffs....yet Hornacek is still here.

Exactly what I'm thinking!!! Not sure if they have massive faith in Hornacek or if it's just lack of ambition?!

suns91fan · Post #436 » by **suns91fan** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:18 pm

Monty Williams spent five seasons with the Pelicans. In his first season, he had CP3. In the last three he had Anthony Davis. And despite all that, his coaching record is at abysmal 43%. I don't get what this has to do with Hornacek at all. If you want to compare these two, then you'll have to give Hornacek three more years with the Suns, right?

There is nothing worse than changing for the sake of change. That's not how you build anything.

Revived · Post #437 » by **Revived** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:33 pm

Monty made playoffs at least once in his first 2 years which gave him the leash for another 3 years.

suns91fan · Post #438 » by **suns91fan** » Tue May 12, 2015 10:17 pm

SF88 wrote:Monty made playoffs at least once in his first 2 years which gave him the leash for another 3 years.

CP3 made the playoffs, not him. Hornacek had a better rookie year than him, with a far worse team at his disposal.

Scutt · Post #439 » by **Scutt** » Tue May 12, 2015 10:54 pm

Matt1979 wrote:
SF88 wrote:Monty Williams fired after taking his team to playoffs....yet Hornacek is still here.

Exactly what I'm thinking!!! Not sure if they have massive faith in Hornacek or if it's just lack of ambition?!

Look, I will be the first to say that Jeff Hornacek has some coaching flaws, but not getting the Suns into the playoffs in on the bottom of my list of complaints. The Suns are in the 2nd year of a rebuild, in a brutal Western Conference, AND they lack a true star player. With all things considered, I would say Jeff Hornacek has done has done better than expected in terms of getting wins, yet that is what I have an issue with. The Suns and Jeff seem more concerned with getting wins than developing players, but I get the feeling there is pressure from Robert Sarver to win at all costs, future be damned, so I cannot blame Hornacek completely for that.

My main gripe with Jeff Hornacek is that he is not the disciplinarian that a rebuilding team needs. His job is to get players to buy into the system and play together, and that is something that he fails miserably at. If your philosophy is to give players the freedom to operate, and the result is nothing but ugly selfish isolation basketball, then you need to adjust your philosophy or get different players.

Being slow to change or adapt and being reactive, instead of proactive, are signs of a bad coach. So far Jeff has showed a lot of this. Whether it be, refusing to start Alex Len for the first 25 games, when it was painfully clear, even to casual fans that he should have done so much earlier. Or that he is trying to implement a system that relies on having a floor general, like Steve Nash, when he has Eric Bledsoe running the show.

Post #440 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue May 12, 2015 10:59 pm

suns91fan wrote:Monty Williams spent five seasons with the Pelicans. In his first season, he had CP3. In the last three he had Anthony Davis. And despite all that, his coaching record is at abysmal 43%. I don't get what this has to do with Hornacek at all. If you want to compare these two, then you'll have to give Hornacek three more years with the Suns, right?

There is nothing worse than changing for the sake of change. That's not how you build anything.

To be fair, The pelicans have been a bit of a train wreck roster-wise outside of AD.

But I agree, Hornacek should get some leeway. He had a phenomenal first season, setting the bar for this season which was hampered by personnel mismatch and turnover.