College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

Zelaznyrules · Post #421 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:56 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:It's like if a player is 50/50 to be an All-Star, but another guy is 10/90 to be the MVP.

Who would you take.

Yeah, that's always part of the challenge when you're trying to grab the best player available. And you have to add floor in there too. What if the MVP possible has a slightly above average floor and the likely All Star has work ethic problems? Or reverse it? Things like that get GMs and coaches fired.

DirtyDez · Post #422 » by **DirtyDez** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:35 am

Guys with those MVP odds are all-stars. No need to overthink it unless you want to...

Conclusion = BPA

Phoenix-Sons · Post #423 » by **Phoenix-Sons** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:19 am

hypothetically if Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball were available with our pick that would be a really tough decision.

gaspar · Post #424 » by **gaspar** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:06 pm

Phoenix-Sons wrote:hypothetically if Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball were available with our pick that would be a really tough decision.

It wouldn't be a tough decision if Malik Monk was also available 8-)

Post #425 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:18 pm

gaspar wrote:
Phoenix-Sons wrote:hypothetically if Josh Jackson and Lonzo Ball were available with our pick that would be a really tough decision.

It wouldn't be a tough decision if Malik Monk was also available

Please no. I don't want another short Kentucky guard, especially one that is a SG, which we already have, who unlikely can turn into a PG. Ulis and him together would not work well against teams with bigger guards.

darealjuice · Post #426 » by **darealjuice** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Malik Monk reminds me too much of Brandon Knight. Do not want.

gaspar · Post #427 » by **gaspar** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Naaaaaaah. Monk is a special talent. A cross between Steph Curry and JJ Redick with hops. You guys should read THIS and THIS.

darealjuice · Post #428 » by **darealjuice** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:51 pm

gaspar wrote:Naaaaaaah. Monk is a special talent. A cross between Steph Curry and JJ Redick with hops. You guys should read THIS and THIS.

That's like his absolute best case scenario ceiling lol. Monk is a scoring guard, and that's it. I'm not even sold on him scoring like this consistently yet. Not to mention he's undersized for a 2 guard and calling him a combo guard able to play the point is a big stretch. He's towards the tail end of my top 10 for this draft right now, I'm not a big fan of his game and don't think we have any need for him.

MathiasPW · Post #429 » by **MathiasPW** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:03 pm

Second article says Booker is not quick. Okay...

MrMiyagi · Post #430 » by **MrMiyagi** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:53 pm

MathiasPW wrote:Second article says Booker is not quick. Okay...

If you ain't John Wall, you slow.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #431 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 am

That's what I've been discussing, Ball, Jackson, Tatum are safer, older, have all-round skills and college production on winning teams.

Then you have more boom-bust guys like Isaac, Ntilkina, Fox, Monk, Giles, knowing if any one of them reaches their ceiling they'll be spectacularly great, so which way does a GM go.

MrMiyagi · Post #432 » by **MrMiyagi** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:36 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:That's what I've been discussing, Ball, Jackson, Tatum are safer, older, have all-round skills and college production on winning teams.

Then you have more boom-bust guys like Isaac, Ntilkina, Fox, Monk, Giles, knowing if any one of them reaches their ceiling they'll be spectacularly great, so which way does a GM go.

I don't see really see Fox and Monk as having a higher ceiling than Ball, Jackson, and Tatum. And they're all around the same age, it's not like the latter are grown men among boys. There all only a few months apart form each other other than Jackson being almost 20, but I'm not going to knock him like he's a 4 year prospect (and I don't even knock 4 year prospects unless they aren't productive). Does Giles even have knees? Nothing I've seen of Isaac makes me think the guy has superstar potential. Tall and long doesn't equal superstar potential - he doesn't seem like a stand out athlete and he doesn't seem to have a stand out skill set. I still haven't seen Ntilkina, but I'm always wary of misinformation on international prospects.

Phoenix-Sons · Post #433 » by **Phoenix-Sons** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:41 pm

So, gun pointed to your head and you have to choose between Ball and Jackson?

darealjuice · Post #434 » by **darealjuice** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:58 pm

I'd flip a coin. Honestly you wouldn't be wrong with either, they're both top tier prospects with the only real knock against them being shot mechanics. Markelle Fultz is really the only clear standout of this already very talented draft class in my opinion, and I'd put at least 4 players in the tier directly below him, including Jackson and Ball.

Part of me does wonder if the Suns would shy away from going with a PG so early with how much they trust Bledsoe and want him here. He's incredibly underrated by the national media and it's hard to knock Bledsoe for being injury prone and having bad knees in favor of Dennis Smith Jr, who has already torn his ACL.

I love the idea of Jackson on the Suns, and not just because he's a Jayhawk. I've said it multiple times, but I think he would be the most impactful, versatile defensive player on the team the day he gets drafted. Not to mention he has elite athleticism, the ball handling skills of a guard, great court vision and passing skills, very high basketball IQ, and a soft touch around the rim. It's cliche, but he just wants to win and be great so bad. You rarely see top tier prospects like him that do all of the dirty work on defense, attack the boards, always hit the ground going for loose balls, are always focused and in top gear, play unselfish team basketball, and do all of the other subtle things that make you win games. If Kansas was his team (like Wiggins) instead of Frank Mason's, I think he could easily be a 20-8-5-2-2 guy for them. Even now Jackson's Per 40 stats as the 2nd/3rd option on offense are 21.5 pts/9.6 rebs/4.4 asts/2.2 stls/2.1 blks. The jump shot will only improve when basketball is his career, hell even Bill Self (who is one of the best and more honest coaches in college basketball) has only had glowing reviews of Josh Jackson, namely his on work ethic, coach-ability, and passion for learning the game. As long as he gets his 3-point shooting in the mid 30's then he'll be fine, because he doesn't need to be a knock down shooter to contribute when he can do literally everything else on the court at a high level. He's Scottie Pippen-esque, not to say he will definitely be that caliber but he definitely reminds me of him at times.

MrMiyagi · Post #435 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:00 am

Phoenix-Sons wrote:So, gun pointed to your head and you have to choose between Ball and Jackson?

I don't think you could really lose in that scenario. I'm really high on Ball, though Jackson is probably a better plan considering Bledsoe is a good point guard and we need to improve defensively. We're likely to trade Tucker and we're still not certain whether Bender is good enough to defend wings consistently. Both have issues with their jump shots, though Ball is hitting at a high clip. Jackson gives us the potential to roll out Bledsoe/Jackson/Bender/Chriss/Chandler(Len) which could be an insanely good defensive lineup, Ball gives us the potential to roll out Ball/Booker/TJ/Bender/Chriss which could be an insanely good offensive lineup. If we get Ball, Bledsoe is likely to be traded, which leads to more roster turn over, whereas Jackson probably makes TJ a sixth man and we maintain greater roster consistency.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #436 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:15 am

I think draft projections at the moment are too focused on current college production.

If Ball and Jackson don't improve their offensive weaknesses at NBA level, they'll struggle to be one of the best 6 players in this draft.

MrMiyagi · Post #437 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:32 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I think draft projections at the moment are too focused on current college production.

If Ball and Jackson don't improve their offensive weaknesses at NBA level, they'll struggle to be one of the best 6 players in this draft.

So you'd rather project for guys who haven't showed skills via their college production?

DirtyDez · Post #438 » by **DirtyDez** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:54 am

The status of Arizona sophomore guard Allonzo Trier, who has yet to play this season, remains in limbo after he tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug during the preseason, multiple sources told ESPN.

According to a source, the NCAA performed a random drug test on Trier in September, and the school was informed in early October that he had failed it.

Trier was suspended but appealed the decision. He won the appeal, but the NCAA prohibited him from playing until the drug was completely out of his system, according to sources. He has been allowed to practice and travel with the team.

The PED thing was kinda known but it's crazy that's it's not out of his system yet.

darealjuice · Post #439 » by **darealjuice** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:35 am

I wouldn't sleep on Jonathan Isaac, he's had a very good stretch of games for FSU and is starting to find his groove. I'd like to see him be a bit more aggressive with the ball, but I do like how he plays within the offense and isn't forcing bad shots. There's a lot to like about him: great size and length, solid defender, hits the boards hard, and nice looking stroke. He needs more polish on his game, particularly consistency on defense and his ball handling/shot creation skills, but he's got a nice ceiling and the improvement he's shown through the season is definitely encouraging. I'm keeping an eye on him for sure.

Watching Washington and Markelle Fultz right now, and man that team stinks outside of him. So many stupid mistakes, bad shots, missed open shots, no defense. Not sure how Romar is able to get such good recruits to such a mediocre program. Fultz is the real deal though, it's obvious he's the best player on the court just about every time he plays.

Zelaznyrules · Post #440 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:54 am

darealjuice wrote:I wouldn't sleep on Jonathan Isaac, he's had a very good stretch of games for FSU and is starting to find his groove. I'd like to see him be a bit more aggressive with the ball, but I do like how he plays within the offense and isn't forcing bad shots. There's a lot to like about him: great size and length, solid defender, hits the boards hard, and nice looking stroke. He needs more polish on his game, particularly consistency on defense and his ball handling/shot creation skills, but he's got a nice ceiling and the improvement he's shown through the season is definitely encouraging. I'm keeping an eye on him for sure.

Watching Washington and Markelle Fultz right now, and man that team stinks outside of him. So many stupid mistakes, bad shots, missed open shots, no defense. Not sure how Romar is able to get such good recruits to such a mediocre program. Fultz is the real deal though, it's obvious he's the best player on the court just about every time he plays.

He has a very good eye for talent, just not much in the way of developing them.

If we have the 1st or 2nd pick, and take Ball, how will you feel