2017 Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion

[bwgood77]

I have Isaac sixth for various reasons, none of which may be good. But as between Tatum and Fox, I have:

In Fox's favor, (a) the budding rivalry between Ball and Fox and (b) the idea that taking Fox would serve as a pretense for trading Eric, which appears prudent based on several factors.
In Tatum's favor, I have only BPA, if indeed he is BPA.

I have imagined a scenario in which TJ can be moved as part of a large deal, perhaps along with Knight and Chandler, that returns us real value. Depending on the return, I could see taking Tatum in that scenario. Otherwise, if our scouts are on the fence as between Fox and Tatum, I draft Fox and trade Eric.

I'm going to go back and reconsider my take on DSJ. I've stated elsewhere that TJ is the core player whose future I'm most immediately concerned about after the draft. DSJ and TJ attended the same school. Though ball-dominant, if DSJ were truly effective, perhaps he could help open things up for TJ. I've just never bought into that style of PG, and I doubt his mental makeup. I'll look one last time; otherwise, I've ended up close to where the rest of the world has landed, with Ball/Fultz/Jackson top 3, then Tatum/Fox, then Collins, then Isaac/Monk.

It is going to be very hard to move Knight. He is unmovable in sims....even sometimes if protected first is attached. If you were to try to move Knight and Chandler together, because someone wanted Chandler (of which those teams that might is probably very short)...it would be very hard to move them together because that is a lot of money for someone to take on. Furthermore, I think Chandler would probably be moved to a competitive team looking to possibly contend, and that type of team would not take on Knight. I don't even know if the real value of all three together in trade if positive. It's probably more like neutral.

We will be lucky to move Knight without giving up something, and we will be lucky to move Chandler for much. We could move them in separate deals that, I'm guessing at best, would end up a wash...get a couple seconds for Chandler and use them to move Knight if possible..but that would still be tough. So that just leaves whatever Warren's value is worth. Maybe a late first...potentially a mid first, but if that's the case, why not keep him? Even with the people like you, who want to move him, if we did move him, it would probably be better to do so mid season to see how the team is going.

But I don't imagine he is moved unless it's with a few picks for a big piece because they flip the script again and decide to make a splash and try to compete soon.

I hope that's not the case.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I have Isaac sixth for various reasons, none of which may be good. But as between Tatum and Fox, I have:

In Fox's favor, (a) the budding rivalry between Ball and Fox and (b) the idea that taking Fox would serve as a pretense for trading Eric, which appears prudent based on several factors.
In Tatum's favor, I have only BPA, if indeed he is BPA.

I have imagined a scenario in which TJ can be moved as part of a large deal, perhaps along with Knight and Chandler, that returns us real value. Depending on the return, I could see taking Tatum in that scenario. Otherwise, if our scouts are on the fence as between Fox and Tatum, I draft Fox and trade Eric.

I'm going to go back and reconsider my take on DSJ. I've stated elsewhere that TJ is the core player whose future I'm most immediately concerned about after the draft. DSJ and TJ attended the same school. Though ball-dominant, if DSJ were truly effective, perhaps he could help open things up for TJ. I've just never bought into that style of PG, and I doubt his mental makeup. I'll look one last time; otherwise, I've ended up close to where the rest of the world has landed, with Ball/Fultz/Jackson top 3, then Tatum/Fox, then Collins, then Isaac/Monk.

It is going to be very hard to move Knight. He is unmovable in sims....even sometimes if protected first is attached. If you were to try to move Knight and Chandler together, because someone wanted Chandler (of which those teams that might is probably very short)...it would be very hard to move them together because that is a lot of money for someone to take on. Furthermore, I think Chandler would probably be moved to a competitive team looking to possibly contend, and that type of team would not take on Knight. I don't even know if the real value of all three together in trade if positive. It's probably more like neutral.

We will be lucky to move Knight without giving up something, and we will be lucky to move Chandler for much. We could move them in separate deals that, I'm guessing at best, would end up a wash...get a couple seconds for Chandler and use them to move Knight if possible..but that would still be tough. So that just leaves whatever Warren's value is worth. Maybe a late first...potentially a mid first, but if that's the case, why not keep him? Even with the people like you, who want to move him, if we did move him, it would probably be better to do so mid season to see how the team is going.

But I don't imagine he is moved unless it's with a few picks for a big piece because they flip the script again and decide to make a splash and try to compete soon.

I hope that's not the case.

Very true and a great example of why you need to be careful handing out contracts this summer. They can become immovable anchors really quickly.

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[thamadkant]

Knight is immovable until his value goes up.
If Suns can trade Bledsoe for good value and for a spot where they need talent... Knight can get minutes and a role he thrives at, get his value up then you trade him to a team like Thunder who needs offense outside of Westbrook.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Playing against the weaker players on the bench must be more difficult than it seems.

[AtheJ415]

You have to unload Chandler if you pay Sauce and Len. We cant have $30mil+ tied up in three centers that aren't starting caliber players.

You can though. We aren't contenders and won't be in the next few years.

[thamadkant]

Playing against the weaker players on the bench must be more difficult than it seems.

Doesnt work like that though.

James Harden was an excellent bench player but a superstar against starters.

Confidence, playing with better team mates etc.

Knight as a starter worked for him. But off the bench he is clearly half the player he was.

[Midnight_Suns]

You have to unload Chandler if you pay Sauce and Len. We cant have $30mil+ tied up in three centers that aren't starting caliber players.

You can though. We aren't contenders and won't be in the next few years.

You should always be smart with your money.

[AtheJ415]

You have to unload Chandler if you pay Sauce and Len. We cant have $30mil+ tied up in three centers that aren't starting caliber players.

You can though. We aren't contenders and won't be in the next few years.

You should always be smart with your money.

Being smart with your money is different than letting talent go at a position of need or forcibly moving a player to your team's detriment simply because of dollars at the position group, particularly when the rest of the team is mostly on rookie deals.

[Midnight_Suns]

You can though. We aren't contenders and won't be in the next few years.

You should always be smart with your money.

Being smart with your money is different than letting talent go at a position of need or forcibly moving a player to your team's detriment simply because of dollars at the position group, particularly when the rest of the team is mostly on rookie deals.

For the record, I would rather keep Len and trade Tyson to anyone who's interested. There's a difference between forcing a detrimental trade and listening to offers. There's no reason for Tyson to take minutes away from Len and Sauce if we invest big contracts in them. A backloaded $12mil+/year contract for Chandler is a bad deal. Period. You can find "veteran leadership" for cheaper.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

You should always be smart with your money.

Being smart with your money is different than letting talent go at a position of need or forcibly moving a player to your team's detriment simply because of dollars at the position group, particularly when the rest of the team is mostly on rookie deals.

For the record, I would rather keep Len and trade Tyson to anyone who's interested. There's a difference between forcing a detrimental trade and listening to offers. There's no reason for Tyson to take minutes away from Len and Sauce if we invest big contracts in them. A backloaded $12mil+/year contract for Chandler is a bad deal. Period. You can find "veteran leadership" for cheaper.

I prefer watching Len play to watching Tyson play, fwiw.

[Fo-Real]

Being smart with your money is different than letting talent go at a position of need or forcibly moving a player to your team's detriment simply because of dollars at the position group, particularly when the rest of the team is mostly on rookie deals.

For the record, I would rather keep Len and trade Tyson to anyone who's interested. There's a difference between forcing a detrimental trade and listening to offers. There's no reason for Tyson to take minutes away from Len and Sauce if we invest big contracts in them. A backloaded $12mil+/year contract for Chandler is a bad deal. Period. You can find "veteran leadership" for cheaper.

I prefer watching Len play to watching Tyson play, fwiw.

Im on the other side. Watching Len clumsily run around, watching him get pushed around and watching great passes bounce off of those wet pancake hands frustrates the hell out of me. Watching Chandler set picks, rebound, push people around and finish lobs makes me happy.

[Zelaznyrules]

For the record, I would rather keep Len and trade Tyson to anyone who's interested. There's a difference between forcing a detrimental trade and listening to offers. There's no reason for Tyson to take minutes away from Len and Sauce if we invest big contracts in them. A backloaded $12mil+/year contract for Chandler is a bad deal. Period. You can find "veteran leadership" for cheaper.

I prefer watching Len play to watching Tyson play, fwiw.

Im on the other side. Watching Len clumsily run around, watching him get pushed around and watching great passes bounce off of those wet pancake hands frustrates the hell out of me. Watching Chandler set picks, rebound, push people around and finish lobs makes me happy.

Tyson had a couple of great rebounding games this season but for the most part I was disappointed by his play, especially defensively. It wasn't lack of effort, it wasn't him being overworked and it wasn't conditioning which, leads me to be believe we are watching age take it's toll. Len was frustrating at times but his defense at the rim and on the blocks is already equal if not superior to Tyson and Len's advantage is likely to continue to grow. And if memory serves, Tyson's offense at Len's age was probably even worse that what Alex is right now. Now, I'm not arguing in favor of keeping Len, I just don't think that Chandler should enter the conversation. His value is mostly during practice, in the locker room and in very short spurts as a backup center IMO.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Was looking at potential Knight trades and it's tough. It would be awesome if a team like Brooklyn or Phily with cap space would take him for free but chances are they won't and if the suns want to move brandon they will be taking a bad contract back. Some of those options would be:

Washington for Mahimini. The suns would actually be adding salary in this deal but in theory you would probably get more on the court from Mahimini than Knight. I could see Washington do this to shave a little salary and Knight could be useful as a back up guard for them. I don't love this deal but would have to at least consider it.

Pelicans for either Solomon Hill or Asic - not great options but it would shed a little salary and again maybe these guys can give you 15 minutes a night. Heck Asic is so bad maybe the suns could even get another asset back in that deal.

Toronto for Demarre Carroll. Toronto would only do this if they lost Lowery and didn't want to tear it down. For the suns it would clear an extra year of salary from the books.

Milwaukee for Jon Henson - Henson has fallen out of favor and Knight did have his best year as a pro under Kidd. This too would clear a year of salary.

Indi for Monta Ellis - Ellis stunk last year and maybe they would take a flier on Knight as they try to win and keep George. If the suns did this they should just buy out Ellis which would cost around 21M but would save the suns about 15 Mil on the knight deal.


As you can see not too many great options.

[Fo-Real]

I prefer watching Len play to watching Tyson play, fwiw.

Im on the other side. Watching Len clumsily run around, watching him get pushed around and watching great passes bounce off of those wet pancake hands frustrates the hell out of me. Watching Chandler set picks, rebound, push people around and finish lobs makes me happy.

Tyson had a couple of great rebounding games this season but for the most part I was disappointed by his play, especially defensively. It wasn't lack of effort, it wasn't him being overworked and it wasn't conditioning which, leads me to be believe we are watching age take it's toll. Len was frustrating at times but his defense at the rim and on the blocks is already equal if not superior to Tyson and Len's advantage is likely to continue to grow. And if memory serves, Tyson's offense at Len's age was probably even worse that what Alex is right now. Now, I'm not arguing in favor of keeping Len, I just don't think that Chandler should enter the conversation. His value is mostly during practice, in the locker room and in very short spurts as a backup center IMO.

I think even at his advanced age that Ty Chandler is flat out a better basketball player than Len is, witch sucks considering Len was the 5th pick and is 4 years in. Not only will Alex never be what Ty was, but frustratingly I dont think he can be better than his old ass in the near future. And this makes me sad, and think hell no on paying Alex.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not to beat a dead horse but man was that Chandler signing dumb as hell. Some of us said it the day it happened. IMO it stunted Len's development and has added literally NOTHING to wins and losses. I get he's a good dude and it's nice to have him around but come on now is that really worth $50M? Was a nice little retirement present to Tyson I guess.

Every time I see some media member say something about adding veteran leadership this off-season I seriously want to scream. The suns will be paying around $27M next year for Dudley, Chandler, and Barbossa.... how much more **** money do they want to burn on babysitters???

[Zelaznyrules]

Im on the other side. Watching Len clumsily run around, watching him get pushed around and watching great passes bounce off of those wet pancake hands frustrates the hell out of me. Watching Chandler set picks, rebound, push people around and finish lobs makes me happy.

Tyson had a couple of great rebounding games this season but for the most part I was disappointed by his play, especially defensively. It wasn't lack of effort, it wasn't him being overworked and it wasn't conditioning which, leads me to be believe we are watching age take it's toll. Len was frustrating at times but his defense at the rim and on the blocks is already equal if not superior to Tyson and Len's advantage is likely to continue to grow. And if memory serves, Tyson's offense at Len's age was probably even worse that what Alex is right now. Now, I'm not arguing in favor of keeping Len, I just don't think that Chandler should enter the conversation. His value is mostly during practice, in the locker room and in very short spurts as a backup center IMO.

I think even at his advanced age that Ty Chandler is flat out a better basketball player than Len is, witch sucks considering Len was the 5th pick and is 4 years in. Not only will Alex never be what Ty was, but frustratingly I dont think he can be better than his old ass in the near future. And this makes me sad, and think hell no on paying Alex.

Chandler at his best was certainly a better player than Alex but he wasn't much different 4 years into his career than Len currently is. Tyson only averaged double digits one season in his first 9 years. And I disagree about the two today, neither player is currently playing well enough to be a starter in the NBA but the difference in effectiveness between them is marginal at best.

I don't see the relevance of Len's draft position but for whatever it's worth, Tyson was drafted straight out of high school and was the second pick overall He frustrated fans to an even greater degree than Len has to date (IMO) especially as Pau Gasol came into his own (drafted just behind Tyson). Bulls fans used to console themselves back then with the knowledge that at least he wasn't Kwame Brown, the player drafted first that season.

[carey]

Every time I see some media member say something about adding veteran leadership this off-season I seriously want to scream. The suns will be paying around $27M next year for Dudley, Chandler, and Barbossa.... how much more **** money do they want to burn on babysitters???

Not to mention Knight is in his 7th season and Bledsoe his 8th. They are both veterans & provide the intangibles one would be looking for.

I don't see Barbs sticking around this year because his buyout is so low & we can use the roster spot with 3 rookies potentially joining the team.

[Damkac]

Only type of veteran that Suns should bring is high BBIQ, high character guard who was great defender in his prime. Somebody who could teach Booker few things.

[SideSwipe]

Not to beat a dead horse but man was that Chandler signing dumb as hell. Some of us said it the day it happened. IMO it stunted Len's development and has added literally NOTHING to wins and losses. I get he's a good dude and it's nice to have him around but come on now is that really worth $50M? Was a nice little retirement present to Tyson I guess.

Every time I see some media member say something about adding veteran leadership this off-season I seriously want to scream. The suns will be paying around $27M next year for Dudley, Chandler, and Barbossa.... how much more **** money do they want to burn on babysitters???

I hate to be the contrarian, but I disagree with this. I think Chandler was a great signing, for multiple reasons. One is the effect he has had in paving the way for the youngsters. He is there for chemistry first and foremost. He has delivered on that, despite the w/l record. He has also played great. Last year, not so much, but this year you can't touch his play. This year he was underpaid. Its hard to come up with a clearly better player that isn't either max or making significantly more that is better than him. Even with his degraded defense. Tyson will play harder once there is something to play for also, I don't think father time has caught up fully yet. He was playing some of his best basketball late in the year before he was shut down.

The next question is who would you have signed instead that would have had more impact? The Suns must hit the salary floor, or get close so someone is getting that money. The question is who? Evan Turner? Meyers Leonard? Al Jefferson? What other player would you have rather had at the price all things considered?

[Kerrsed]

Only type of veteran that Suns should bring is high BBIQ, high character guard who was great defender in his prime. Somebody who could teach Booker few things.