2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

Ghost of Kleine · Post #4341 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 am

The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Post #4342 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:52 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I am not THAT high about Mikal because the gap between his current role and a secondary scoring option is too big and not too many players are successful doing that transition.

For one Jerami Grant there are a bunch of Trevor Arizas.

I remember when Ariza went to the Rockets after winning the championship with the Lakers and they gave him a much bigger role on offense. Yeah, he averaged 15 points per game that season but his efficiency was terrible and it was obvious that being a primary option on offense wasn't on his DNA.

Mikal has played the same role since his first year in college and he is already 25 years old. He is very good doing what he does for us and I would be happy with him playing the same role on the Suns for the next decade.

Mikal was the second option (many might say first) on that Villanova championship team...and that had solid NBA players on it. He even shot a higher % from 3 in his last year, at like 43.5%.

I think he may be a more willing scorer than Ayton, for example, on creating, etc. The thing is, with Booker, Paul, Ayton, being behind Oubre last year, etc, he just hasn't gotten too much opportunity. The difference between guys like Grant and Ariza are elite efficiency and a much higher offensive bbiq.

Just being a perimeter guy and having ball handling/shot creation abilities that is ahead of Ayton's development, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could peak as our #2 option. I've never thought that about him during his first couple of seasons in the league but just based on the flashes I've seen over the past season and in the playoffs, he should continue his development on that end of the court and could be a 18-20ppg scorer on above average efficiency. Not to say Ayton couldn't catch up and end up being a low 20ppg scorer and establishing himself as the #2 guy.

Right now he's the 4th leading scorer on our team while being 2nd last on the entire team on usage rate. He's also in the 88% percentile in the NBA on isolation scoring based on his 1.09pts per possession. The guy CAN do a lot more but doesn't have the opportunity currently. I think I mentioned it in another post a month or so ago but I expect Mikal to take on a slightly bigger offensive role with his shot creation this season while I expect CP3's offensive output to decrease (by design).

Oh yeah, i could see him being the #2 option easily. I don't really like to classify guys into some sort of scoring option pecking order, but I think any of the core 3 (not counting Paul) could be go to scoring options...and even Cam Johnson could enter that as well in time.

Post #4343 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:57 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

I don't think that's really that much disrespect. With fewer COVID issues and healthier Lakers and Warriors teams along with more of the younger up n coming teams, I think records will be more evenly distributed. Also the Clips were I believe in striking distance of the 2 seed before they decided they didn't want it. I believe when the Lakers were healthy they had the 1st or 2nd best record.

3rd in the west is pretty good in my opinion. That's a drop of one spot with healthier Lakers and Warriors teams. This season will really again come down to health for a lot of teams too. I could see us finish 1st or as low as 4th. If the Clips and Nuggets were healthy I might say we could finish as low as 6th. those top 6 teams, if healthy, are pretty tight.

bwoolf2 · Post #4344 » by **bwoolf2** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:47 am

matt131 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Where would y'all rank Cameron Johnson in a redraft?

It's laughable some of the people in front of cam including Horton tucker he hasn't been anywhere near as good.

And to have Dort that low as well he has been light years better than tht , herro who had a good rookie year and struggled since, top 5 for him

Post #4345 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:51 am

bwoolf2 wrote:
matt131 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Where would y'all rank Cameron Johnson in a redraft?

It's laughable some of the people in front of cam including Horton tucker he hasn't been anywhere near as good.

And to have Dort that low as well he has been light years better than tht , herro who had a good rookie year and struggled since, top 5 for him

Which guys do you put him above? THT is pretty good though he can't shoot. Part of their reasoning might be the 4 year age difference since TNT is only 20. NAW had similar #s to Cam with more assists and steals and is two years younger. I think Herro is a bit overhyped but he has had better #s across the board and is 3 years younger.

Cam has impressed, but it's a pretty good list...I agree about THT though. I might move him one up based strictly on #s. I simply don't see enough of the other guys to not let my bias creep in. Cam was a solid pick and a few of those who went higher, specifically guys people on the board wanted, like Coby White and Jarrett Culver. But also guys like Rui, Hayes and Reddish went higher.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #4346 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:13 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

I don't think that's really that much disrespect. With fewer COVID issues and healthier Lakers and Warriors teams along with more of the younger up n coming teams, I think records will be more evenly distributed. Also the Clips were I believe in striking distance of the 2 seed before they decided they didn't want it. I believe when the Lakers were healthy they had the 1st or 2nd best record.

3rd in the west is pretty good in my opinion. That's a drop of one spot with healthier Lakers and Warriors teams. This season will really again come down to health for a lot of teams too. I could see us finish 1st or as low as 4th. If the Clips and Nuggets were healthy I might say we could finish as low as 6th. those top 6 teams, if healthy, are pretty tight.

I don't have any issues really with the 3rd seed premise, As I honestly have us in the three to 5 range due to the very reasons that you had mentioned. I do partially attribute our success last season to many teams injuries, Especially in the playoffs. I think IF those teams were fully healthy, They would of given us some real challenges. However, I still think we'd have had the same outcome of making the finals. Just would've been significantly more difficult.

My issues wherein I percieve disrespect is in the lack of any representation for our team categorically towards things like:
- MVP votes ( IF healthy).
- DPOY.
- 6Th MOTY.
- COTY Has Williams fall all the way to 6th in voting.
- MIP Has Mikal Bridges way down around 14th on the list. I mean c'mon! I get that we had a lot of things break our way last season, But we still had the 2nd best record in the league. And also made the finals with some of our own key players injured too. To not even have any single modicum of representation in 3 of the 5 categories, And then being near the bottom of the list on the other two ?? How could that not be percieved as disrespect to what our team and players have accomplished. :dontknow:

Unless people really believe that the progress our team and young players made last season was a blatantly anomalous situation.

Post #4347 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:48 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

I don't think that's really that much disrespect. With fewer COVID issues and healthier Lakers and Warriors teams along with more of the younger up n coming teams, I think records will be more evenly distributed. Also the Clips were I believe in striking distance of the 2 seed before they decided they didn't want it. I believe when the Lakers were healthy they had the 1st or 2nd best record.

3rd in the west is pretty good in my opinion. That's a drop of one spot with healthier Lakers and Warriors teams. This season will really again come down to health for a lot of teams too. I could see us finish 1st or as low as 4th. If the Clips and Nuggets were healthy I might say we could finish as low as 6th. those top 6 teams, if healthy, are pretty tight.

I don't have any issues really with the 3rd seed premise, As I honestly have us in the three to 5 range due to the very reasons that you had mentioned. I do partially attribute our success last season to many teams injuries, Especially in the playoffs. I think IF those teams were fully healthy, They would of given us some real challenges. However, I still think we'd have had the same outcome of making the finals. Just would've been significantly more difficult.

My issues wherein I percieve disrespect is in the lack of any representation for our team categorically towards things like:
- MVP votes ( IF healthy). y
- DPOY.
- 6Th MOTY.
- COTY Has Williams fall all the way to 6th in voting.
- MIP Has Mikal Bridges way down around 14th on the list. I mean c'mon! I get that we had a lot of things break our way last season, But we still had the 2nd best record in the league. And also made the finals with some of our own key players injured too. To not even have any single modicum of representation in 3 of the 5 categories, And then being near the bottom of the list on the other two ?? How could that not be percieved as disrespect to what our team and players have accomplished.
Unless people really believe that the progress our team and young players made last season was a blatantly anomalous situation.

Oh, I didn't look at those things. Well, I don't think anyone expects we have a real MVP candidate. That is almost always one of the very best players in the league, and then with injuries to some of the top candidates last year a guy like Paul, because he took the Suns from what they had been to what they were, but he didn't have a real chance to win it, so for people to vote on him or anyone else on our team to be MVP next year would be extremely surprising to me.

Same with DPOY. We have some solid defenders and an elite wing defender in Bridges, but no one that you could expect to be a DPOY candidate. Ayton made major strides and defended some good bigs very well, and I see people mention stuff like that, but best defender in the NBA? I don't see it for anyone on our team..not close.

6th man...this is tough. Cam obviously feels like a great candidate to me but I don't watch every game of all the other teams so I can't judge him against others.

Coach - Monty will have a hard time getting it when he just got it. That's just reality.

To vote on most improved before the season feels weird. Our players are all solid enough that I wouldn't expect it from anyone really. Unless a guy like Jalen Smith was a huge difference maker suddenly.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #4348 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:49 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:

I don't think that's really that much disrespect. With fewer COVID issues and healthier Lakers and Warriors teams along with more of the younger up n coming teams, I think records will be more evenly distributed. Also the Clips were I believe in striking distance of the 2 seed before they decided they didn't want it. I believe when the Lakers were healthy they had the 1st or 2nd best record.

3rd in the west is pretty good in my opinion. That's a drop of one spot with healthier Lakers and Warriors teams. This season will really again come down to health for a lot of teams too. I could see us finish 1st or as low as 4th. If the Clips and Nuggets were healthy I might say we could finish as low as 6th. those top 6 teams, if healthy, are pretty tight.

I don't have any issues really with the 3rd seed premise, As I honestly have us in the three to 5 range due to the very reasons that you had mentioned. I do partially attribute our success last season to many teams injuries, Especially in the playoffs. I think IF those teams were fully healthy, They would of given us some real challenges. However, I still think we'd have had the same outcome of making the finals. Just would've been significantly more difficult.

My issues wherein I percieve disrespect is in the lack of any representation for our team categorically towards things like:
- MVP votes ( IF healthy).
- DPOY.
- 6Th MOTY.
- COTY Has Williams fall all the way to 6th in voting.
- MIP Has Mikal Bridges way down around 14th on the list. I mean c'mon! I get that we had a lot of things break our way last season, But we still had the 2nd best record in the league. And also made the finals with some of our own key players injured too. To not even have any single modicum of representation in 3 of the 5 categories, And then being near the bottom of the list on the other two ?? How could that not be percieved as disrespect to what our team and players have accomplished.
Unless people really believe that the progress our team and young players made last season was a blatantly anomalous situation.

Oh, I didn't look at those things. Well, I don't think anyone expects we have a real MVP candidate. That is almost always one of the very best players in the league, and then with injuries to some of the top candidates last year a guy like Paul, because he took the Suns from what they had been to what they were, but he didn't have a real chance to win it, so for people to vote on him or anyone else on our team to be MVP next year would be extremely surprising to me.

Same with DPOY. We have some solid defenders and an elite wing defender in Bridges, but no one that you could expect to be a DPOY candidate. Ayton made major strides and defended some good bigs very well, and I see people mention stuff like that, but best defender in the NBA? I don't see it for anyone on our team..not close.

6th man...this is tough. Cam obviously feels like a great candidate to me but I don't watch every game of all the other teams so I can't judge him against others.

Coach - Monty will have a hard time getting it when he just got it. That's just reality.

To vote on most improved before the season feels weird. Our players are all solid enough that I wouldn't expect it from anyone really. Unless a guy like Jalen Smith was a huge difference maker suddenly.

I hear ya! But for MVP, IF Booker or Paul plays up to or beyond what they did this last season, At the very least they should be in play for votes as opposed to not even being listed in the running.

Same with DPOTY. It's not important to me that Bridges wins it, But rather that he's at least on the list for consideration as opposed to not even in contention anywhere. With the 6th man of the year, Cam Payne should absolutely be a consideration after they way he played for us this last season. Even if not chosen, He at least deserves some votes honestly. For MIP, I can agree that the winner could be up in the air in comparison to players from other teams. But the premise of being held off the list when a case could be made for a number of our players, And not one is listed, is again, Just baffling. There should be at least one legitimate consideration from our team represented for that category somewhere on the list??

For the coach of the year, Williams falling from 2nd place just behind Thibodeau ( who won it this last season) :wink:

all the way to 6th after leading our team to the freaking finals from being a lottery team the season prior seems (at least to me) to be a pretty poor assessment on there part at best and a gross oversight at worst.

So for me, it's not even really about winning it as much as then actually giving recognition to our team/ players for the improvements and progression. Not winning is fine, But to be left off the list entirely seems like gross negligence on their part when considering the jump we made in comparison to our previous season before last. :dontknow:

Saberestar · Post #4349 » by **Saberestar** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:38 am

A couple players out of the market who will not play in the NBA next season:

Noah Vonleh - Shanghai Sharks.
Mike James - Monaco Basket.

alamin330 · Post #4350 » by **alamin330** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:15 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #4351 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:40 pm

alamin330 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

In all fairness, keeping things stable was probably the best way for us to maximize the # of wins we would get this season. I do think the Jazz improved by adding Paschall, Whiteside and Gay (and Ilyasova... how is he still playing?). The Lakers have a lot of star power, but TBH, the only addition that really concerns me is Nunn. Having a capable scoring bench PG has always seemed, to me, a hidden key to success.

I have no problem being projected #3. The win total is a bit surprising, though. I think we'll get into the mid-50s barring a major injury. IMO, the key to us winning the west is Ayton taking that next step, but I'm not counting on it. BTW, y'all see that Mitchell Robinson is up to 280? Dayum. Never thought he'd end up bigger than Ayton!

Ghost of Kleine · Post #4352 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:17 pm

alamin330 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

Yeah!
I honestly don't really have any issues with our projected seed as I personally have us in the 3-5 range. And ( not to inflame anyone) but also a 3rd round exit IF we catch injuries at the wrong time and don't add a significant piece for our final roster spot. I don't view Thaddeus Young as a legitimate x factor or needle mover either in that context by the way. But would understand the trade interest for our front office in being able to clear 15 million in salary prior to extensions.

But back to the point, My issue is predominantly in that we have almost no categorical representation at all for our team in multiple award contention such as MVP, DPOTY, 6THMOTY, MIP. Also Williams has now fallen all the way to 6th in coach of the year voting. Given our meteoric rise from obscurity last season, it just feels like an unecessary slight to our team/ players. Or simply gross negligence in considering our monumental (historic) by current nba standards progression from a lottery team to a finals team.

For me, Having them exclude our players from such considerations infers that what we accomplished was an anomaly or situational abberation. I just feel that we should recieve some sort of legitimate recognition for our recent ascent back to relevance, As any other franchise that experienced such achievements would. Other NBA media entities seem capable of this assessment. But ESPN has just really become a subpar disappointment in contrast to how they used to operate. :-?

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #4353 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:39 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
alamin330 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

Yeah!
I honestly don't really have any issues with our projected seed as I personally have us in the 3-5 range. And ( not to inflame anyone) but also a 3rd round exit IF we catch injuries at the wrong time and don't add a significant piece for our final roster spot. I don't view Thaddeus Young as a legitimate x factor or needle mover either in that context by the way. But would understand the trade interest for our front office in being able to clear 15 million in salary prior to extensions.

But back to the point, My issue is predominantly in that we have almost no categorical representation at all for our team in multiple award contention such as MVP, DPOTY, 6THMOTY, MIP. Also Williams has now fallen all the way to 6th in coach of the year voting. Given our meteoric rise from obscurity last season, it just feels like an unecessary slight to our team/ players. Or simply gross negligence in considering our monumental (historic) by current nba standards progression from a lottery team to a finals team.

For me, Having them exclude our players from such considerations infers that what we accomplished was an anomaly or situational abberation. I just feel that we should recieve some sort of legitimate recognition for our recent ascent back to relevance, As any other franchise that experienced such achievements would. Other NBA media entities seem capable of this assessment. But ESPN has just really become a subpar disappointment in contrast to how they used to operate.

Honestly though, I don't see why anyone would think our guys have a shot at any of the individual awards next season. Maaaybe Cam Jo for MIP or either Cam for 6MOY.

Bridges can't be DPOY if he's averaging 2 stocks, and Ayton can't get DPOY averaging 1.8 stocks. Counting stats DO matter, and not just for awards. They matter because they freaking matter. You can be a lockdown defender and also steal other teams' possessions. Live ball turnovers (ie steals) give you the highest percentage looks going the other way. And just to say it, IMO, FWIW, Ayton is the most valuable defensive player on our roster.

Paul ain't getting MVP putting up the stats he put up last season, and it's hard to see those increasing - especially considering he should get fewer minutes in favor of Payne. Booker ain't getting MVP when the only way he stands out statistically is in PPG. If he wants MVP, he'll need to start hitting threes at a 45% clip on high volume, and we'll need 60+ wins.

COTY goes to the coach whose team surprises most to the upside. We ain't cinderellas no more. So for Monty to get COTY, we'll need the best record in the league - and even that won't guarantee it.

Slim Charless · Post #4354 » by **Slim Charless** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:16 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Even as big of a Bridges fan as I am, I was a little surprised on the trade forum in the thread about Mikal's next contract that there were almost double the votes at that it would be over $25 a year as there were at $20 million a year.

This is my concern towards Bridges percieved market value, As with Paul ( I realize his contract is declining in yr 3 ), Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Cam at probably around 16-18 million range ( my anticipated market range for him * If he continues to show progress this season) and then trying to fill out the rest of the roster. IF SAVER Is truly willing to pay the luxury tax in 23, Then everything should be stable and doable. But his inclination so far to not yet secure Ayton/ Bridges along with the proposed 15 million salary dump proposal for Thad Young, Does make me curious as to the extent of his full commitment towards keeping our core together.

All in all I'm probably worried over nothing! But what if these other teams absent of stars in a underwhelming 22' free agency do consider throwing a max offer in the 25-29 million range? Either we pay that ( significantly hampering imminent future roster moves, Or do we seek a trade at a slightly diminished return? And how would this affect team chemistry, Should we lose him?

I do think that our front office is smart and absolutely planned around this contingency though with the way they specifically structured Paul's contract. But it's still slightly concerning to me as to the potential ripple effects of either scenario playing out?

I don't really want to play the "what if" game unless he does not get the extension. If he does, it's moot. I don't think luxury tax will be a big issue outside of next year, the first year the new contracts for Ayton and Bridges kick in. But the next year, there is no Jae, no Saric (assuming we keep him), and if we did trade for Thad, no Smith (and probably no Thad as he would get more money elsewhere next summer).

Paul is also VERY likely gone after 2 years and has a $15 million cap hit to help absorb a Cam 2nd contract amount.

Sarver may be worried about luxury tax, and it is dumb to get too far into it or have repeater years, but he also has the gambling in the arena and will likely have full arenas for the first time in awhile..as well as playoff revenue, etc...this is a HUGE difference in revenue. He also got the taste of being a contender after being one of the worst teams for the better part of a decade.

Not sure if people realize, but if you let Mikal walk due to another offer, it's not like we suddenly have that much money to spend elsewhere...we would still be far enough over the cap that it might only drop us to like $10-15 million under the cap with no MLE, so it's like losing an elite starter for almost nothing. Now you could do a S&T but you very rarely get too much back in that circumstance, and if you were willing to take a big salary back I doubt you are getting nearly the caliber of player. There could be a pick involved, but not sure we are concerned with those right now.

+1

I don't see tax being as big of an issue as some make it out to be. During the SSOL days, Sarver had just purchased the Suns and pouring millions and millions following the purchase just to fund the roster and operations. It's been well over a decade since and he's more than recouped the value and operational expenses he put into running that SSOL team and I think we're well positioned with the added revenue sources you've mentioned to go into the tax for a couple of seasons if we continue to be an elite contender.

I love the positivity guys and hope you're right but facts and facts and everything we've seen from Sarver has shown that he won't be paying all this tax. I forgot the #### but someone laid it out earlier this summer and threw price tag to resign everyone is MASSIVE.

Ghost is right and it's a very good question if we can trust Sarver to pay up. I don't need to remind long time posters like yourselves that only 2 short years ago we were having conversations about Sarver being the worst(and cheapest) owner in sports. Now, everyone thinks he gonna open up the wallet and make it rain like Nelly in a strip club. I'm hesitant to believe that.

Why haven't we gotten the Ayton extension yet? Even the haters of Ayton, admit that he's likely due a max....and yet. Nothing. Every Suns fan needs to be very concerned about our cheapass owner. Now, I don't think there's anyway that DA is going anywhere, but this Mikal situation is something that can break bad.

Bogyo · Post #4355 » by **Bogyo** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:25 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
alamin330 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
ESPN has little faith in Suns repeat

(by @DaveKingNBA) https://t.co/sSmlVhav5i https://t.co/EVS28Ef80O

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Typical disrespect from ESPN. They really are straight azz these days. Nevertheless, it should make for really good motivation out the gate!

Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

In all fairness, keeping things stable was probably the best way for us to maximize the # of wins we would get this season. I do think the Jazz improved by adding Paschall, Whiteside and Gay (and Ilyasova... how is he still playing?). The Lakers have a lot of star power, but TBH, the only addition that really concerns me is Nunn. Having a capable scoring bench PG has always seemed, to me, a hidden key to success.

I have no problem being projected #3. The win total is a bit surprising, though. I think we'll get into the mid-50s barring a major injury. IMO, the key to us winning the west is Ayton taking that next step, but I'm not counting on it. BTW, y'all see that Mitchell Robinson is up to 280? Dayum. Never thought he'd end up bigger than Ayton!

Monk was a better signing for them than Nunn imho. Those are the type of moves that would make me believe that Jones is actually breaking a sweat trying to get this team to win it all. Now, he is just the statue of the "doing the least" in my eyes as Alamin put it.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #4356 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:36 pm

Bogyo wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
alamin330 wrote:Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

In all fairness, keeping things stable was probably the best way for us to maximize the # of wins we would get this season. I do think the Jazz improved by adding Paschall, Whiteside and Gay (and Ilyasova... how is he still playing?). The Lakers have a lot of star power, but TBH, the only addition that really concerns me is Nunn. Having a capable scoring bench PG has always seemed, to me, a hidden key to success.

I have no problem being projected #3. The win total is a bit surprising, though. I think we'll get into the mid-50s barring a major injury. IMO, the key to us winning the west is Ayton taking that next step, but I'm not counting on it. BTW, y'all see that Mitchell Robinson is up to 280? Dayum. Never thought he'd end up bigger than Ayton!

Monk was a better signing for them than Nunn imho. Those are the type of moves that would make me believe that Jones is actually breaking a sweat trying to get this team to win it all. Now, he is just the statue of the "doing the least" in my eyes as Alamin put it.

Yeah, I should have mentioned Monk as well. He really tore us up last year.

TBF, we added Shamet, who I prefer to Monk all things considered. You just can't compare our free agency to the Lakers. Players go there on a huge discount just because it's LA and Lebron is there. Not much you can do about that.

Bogyo · Post #4357 » by **Bogyo** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:43 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
In all fairness, keeping things stable was probably the best way for us to maximize the # of wins we would get this season. I do think the Jazz improved by adding Paschall, Whiteside and Gay (and Ilyasova... how is he still playing?). The Lakers have a lot of star power, but TBH, the only addition that really concerns me is Nunn. Having a capable scoring bench PG has always seemed, to me, a hidden key to success.

I have no problem being projected #3. The win total is a bit surprising, though. I think we'll get into the mid-50s barring a major injury. IMO, the key to us winning the west is Ayton taking that next step, but I'm not counting on it. BTW, y'all see that Mitchell Robinson is up to 280? Dayum. Never thought he'd end up bigger than Ayton!

Monk was a better signing for them than Nunn imho. Those are the type of moves that would make me believe that Jones is actually breaking a sweat trying to get this team to win it all. Now, he is just the statue of the "doing the least" in my eyes as Alamin put it.

Yeah, I should have mentioned Monk as well. He really tore us up last year.

TBF, we added Shamet, who I prefer to Monk all things considered. You just can't compare our free agency to the Lakers. Players go there on a huge discount just because it's LA and Lebron is there. Not much you can do about that.

While there is truth in that, I think that by now Phoenix metro area is also a pretty hot place, and we are a legit contender, and would be even more if our GM could (would even try) to talk these type free agents to join us instead of them. If he succeded we could have had a much better offseason, as there were quite a few outstanding deals made by others. Our truly good deals were CP and Payne.

Post #4358 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:39 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
alamin330 wrote:Doesnt seem that disrespectful to be ranked 3rd lol considering the team made minimal upgrades this off-season.
If doing the least was a person James Jones would be it.

Yeah!
I honestly don't really have any issues with our projected seed as I personally have us in the 3-5 range. And ( not to inflame anyone) but also a 3rd round exit IF we catch injuries at the wrong time and don't add a significant piece for our final roster spot. I don't view Thaddeus Young as a legitimate x factor or needle mover either in that context by the way. But would understand the trade interest for our front office in being able to clear 15 million in salary prior to extensions.

But back to the point, My issue is predominantly in that we have almost no categorical representation at all for our team in multiple award contention such as MVP, DPOTY, 6THMOTY, MIP. Also Williams has now fallen all the way to 6th in coach of the year voting. Given our meteoric rise from obscurity last season, it just feels like an unecessary slight to our team/ players. Or simply gross negligence in considering our monumental (historic) by current nba standards progression from a lottery team to a finals team.

For me, Having them exclude our players from such considerations infers that what we accomplished was an anomaly or situational abberation. I just feel that we should recieve some sort of legitimate recognition for our recent ascent back to relevance, As any other franchise that experienced such achievements would. Other NBA media entities seem capable of this assessment. But ESPN has just really become a subpar disappointment in contrast to how they used to operate.

Honestly though, I don't see why anyone would think our guys have a shot at any of the individual awards next season. Maaaybe Cam Jo for MIP or either Cam for 6MOY.

Bridges can't be DPOY averaging if he's averaging 2 stocks, and Ayton can't get DPOY averaging 1.8 stocks. Counting stats DO matter, and not just for awards. They matter because they freaking matter. You can be a lockdown defender and also steal other teams' possessions. Live ball turnovers (ie steals) give you the highest percentage looks going the other way. And just to say it, IMO, FWIW, Ayton is the most valuable defensive player on our roster.

Paul ain't getting MVP putting up the stats he put up last season, and it's hard to see those increasing - especially considering he should get fewer minutes in favor of Payne. Booker ain't getting MVP when the only way he stands out statistically is in PPG. If he wants MVP, he'll need to start hitting threes at a 45% clip on high volume, and we'll need 60+ wins.

COTY goes to the coach whose team surprises most to the upside. We ain't cinderellas no more. So for Monty to get COTY, we'll need the best record in the league - and even that won't guarantee it.

Yeah, I agree with most of this...maybe not quite as much with stocks if they effectively show we are loads better on defense when they are on the floor and they guard the best players extremely effectively.

Guys who chase blocks (Whiteside for example) or steals (maybe off the top of my head someone like Oubre..not as a great example) often get out of defensive position trying to gamble too much and it hurts their effectiviness.

I think DFG% and contesting more shots, effectively switching, etc, is more important then getting 2 blocks a game rather than 1. And always staying in front of your guy, like Bridges does, can be important. They may still get their points but on far worse efficiency which makes a huge difference when they are taking many more possessions/shots to get those points hurting their team. Bridges may have gotten fewer steals than before but also suddenly got voted awfully close to an all defensive team.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #4359 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:44 pm

Bogyo wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
Monk was a better signing for them than Nunn imho. Those are the type of moves that would make me believe that Jones is actually breaking a sweat trying to get this team to win it all. Now, he is just the statue of the "doing the least" in my eyes as Alamin put it.

Yeah, I should have mentioned Monk as well. He really tore us up last year.

TBF, we added Shamet, who I prefer to Monk all things considered. You just can't compare our free agency to the Lakers. Players go there on a huge discount just because it's LA and Lebron is there. Not much you can do about that.

While there is truth in that, I think that by now Phoenix metro area is also a pretty hot place, and we are a legit contender, and would be even more if our GM could (would even try) to talk these type free agents to join us instead of them. If he succeded we could have had a much better offseason, as there were quite a few outstanding deals made by others. Our truly good deals were CP and Payne.

IDK. The whole culture Champ has built seems to be: find high character professionals who fit our needs and have a role to play. It seems that approach has something to do with Payne signing his marvelous contract and Paul re-signing as well (for less than what the Pels' were offering). I think we passed on Halliburton to give Payne and Carter the best opportunity, and Payne outperformed Halliburton last season (though obviously Tyrese's upside would be preferred). Now we've added Shamet, and he really could be our long-term backup 2 and a really interesting next to Booker.

It's hard for me to hate on this approach until it starts to really cost us. I don't see the deal we should have gotten that would have really helped us.

I think this is why we're hearing talk of Smith and Saric for Thad. Saric's time here may be done, as it's clear he's not a perfect fit as our backup 5 - and Frank is basically nailed down to that third spot on our depth chart. And the reason I think we're looking to move Smith rather than a future pick is that if Thad is here, there would be no role for Smith - that is, no opportunity to learn on the job, which is what he needs. By carving out a role for Thad, Jones - and all this is speculation, but it seems to fit the MO - puts us in the best position to get Thad to agree to a team-friendly deal.

Now trading your recent #10 and Saric for a 32-year-old Thad Young might seem like a bad deal value-wise, but over the life of their respective contracts (assuming Young re-ups as I'm presuming here), you'll get more valuable minutes out of Thad's. And that should open you up to being able to sign other, core pieces to relatively team-friendly deals, because they're successful here and the team is built for each player to succeed individually as well as collectively.

The Lakers have a team of mercenaries. But that will only work for as long as the King reigns. And any star that shines too bright will inevitably depart for more dollars. Maybe we could have taken that approach, but a team of mercenaries will always be more expensive and less durable. I'm glad we've taken the opposite approach, but we'll see how it goes.

Post #4360 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:44 pm

I don't see what more people expected out of Jones...or much more. We used most of our available space, preserved a little of the MLE and BAE (which we perhaps want available next year) but more importantly filled our two major holes people complained about not having a reliable big and rebounding/defense behind Ayton and having a better guard than Moore and company to be that 4th guard, and MOST importantly, getting killer deals for Payne and Paul. What do people expect? It's not like we have a ton of cap space. No other teams had major needle moving moves..I think the Lakers got worse, a few teams made marginal moves. GS maybe the best, but not much else. I think the teams retaining solid contributors like the Clippers and us while plugging a few holes are teams that might be underrated on moves because they didn't try to fix something that wasn't broken.

Grade the Suns off-season moves so far