ImageImageImage

Is Hornacek the problem?

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,245
And1: 24,601
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#441 » by lilfishi22 » Tue May 12, 2015 11:03 pm

suns91fan wrote:
SF88 wrote:Monty made playoffs at least once in his first 2 years which gave him the leash for another 3 years.


CP3 made the playoffs, not him. Hornacek had a better rookie year than him, with a far worse team at his disposal.

Bingo! Monty walked into a team with a young CP3, prime D. West, prime OK4 and a bunch of solid role players like Ariza, Landry, Bellinelli, Jarret Jack and Willie Green.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 17,004
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#442 » by Saberestar » Wed May 13, 2015 11:22 pm

Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg is widely believed to be the Bulls' preferred replacement, but who would replace him in Ames, Iowa? There's a growing belief that Iowa State would try to lure another Cyclones great from the NBA: Suns coach Jeff Hornacek, currently making less than Hoiberg's average salary with less security than college jobs offer.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1833716/Iow ... oenix-Suns
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#443 » by Revived » Fri May 15, 2015 6:55 am

Looks like we can end all the Thibs pipe dreams...

Tom Thibodeau, Pelicans Have Mutual Interest


With the Chicago Bulls eliminated from the playoffs, the future of Tom Thibodeau becomes a pressing question for several franchises.

Thibodeau is widely expected to not return as head coach of the Bulls.

The Orlando Magic are interested in Thibodeau and sources say there is mutual interest with the New Orleans Pelicans.

Thibodeau has two seasons and $9 million remaining on his contract with the Bulls.

When asked after the game if he expects to remain with the Bulls, Thibodeau sounded unwilling to step down.

"Until they tell me I'm not, I expect to be here," said Thibodeau.

Derrick Rose said he would like Thibodeau to return.

https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/statu ... 1115470848


Man, assuming he hires a good offense assistant coach and since NOP has good scoring guards anyway, it would be a terrific hire. Anthony Davis with Thibs would just be unfair imo.
Luciferswings
Banned User
Posts: 393
And1: 66
Joined: May 16, 2015

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#444 » by Luciferswings » Sun May 17, 2015 1:09 am

If the Suns played in the East Hornacek would have been in the running for COY the last 2 years. He wouldn't have won, but he'd be in the mix. The problem is not Hornacek, who seems a fine coach, the problem is the talent level and a tough conference. It doesn't seem like either is easy to fix.
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#445 » by Revived » Tue May 19, 2015 7:13 am

Luciferswings wrote:If the Suns played in the East Hornacek would have been in the running for COY the last 2 years. He wouldn't have won, but he'd be in the mix. The problem is not Hornacek, who seems a fine coach, the problem is the talent level and a tough conference. It doesn't seem like either is easy to fix.

The problem is his philosophy of running a gimmick 2 PG offense blows. That's the primary problem. I don't you would be happy if the Hawks ran a dual PG offense either.

The Suns don't run any screens, cuts or back door movement. Its either "run" and score on fast break or some god awful iso play.
Luciferswings
Banned User
Posts: 393
And1: 66
Joined: May 16, 2015

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#446 » by Luciferswings » Tue May 19, 2015 7:16 am

It doesn't have to be his philosophy, those are just the players he ended up with. He's not making the personnel moves. If the front office doesn't want him to have 2 point guards, just change the roster so he doesn't (which they've kind of just done, since BK isn't a point guard).
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#447 » by Revived » Tue May 19, 2015 6:59 pm

Luciferswings wrote:It doesn't have to be his philosophy, those are just the players he ended up with. He's not making the personnel moves. If the front office doesn't want him to have 2 point guards, just change the roster so he doesn't (which they've kind of just done, since BK isn't a point guard).

BK has been a PG his entire career. And the Suns FO already said that Hornacek wanted to run a dual PG offense and that he said he could try to replicate the days of the KJ-Hornacek backcourt when he was hired.

So yea he is the one making personnel moves he's telling McD that he wants 2 PGs and that's what he's getting.
Cutter
Head Coach
Posts: 6,776
And1: 2,012
Joined: Nov 25, 2010
   

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#448 » by Cutter » Thu May 21, 2015 3:14 am

Luciferswings wrote:It doesn't have to be his philosophy, those are just the players he ended up with. He's not making the personnel moves. If the front office doesn't want him to have 2 point guards, just change the roster so he doesn't (which they've kind of just done, since BK isn't a point guard).

Nice couple of posts LW. Hope to see you around more often.

At this stage of the current Suns team development, Hornacek is not the problem. It's the level of talent on the team. He's making the best of the players he's been given. I don't like the 2 PG system personally, but I get why he runs it as this gives the team the best opportunity to win. Archie is not very good right now, and I have diminishing hope that he ever turns out to be a good player.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,245
And1: 24,601
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#449 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 21, 2015 5:00 am

Cutter wrote:
Luciferswings wrote:It doesn't have to be his philosophy, those are just the players he ended up with. He's not making the personnel moves. If the front office doesn't want him to have 2 point guards, just change the roster so he doesn't (which they've kind of just done, since BK isn't a point guard).

Nice couple of posts LW. Hope to see you around more often.

At this stage of the current Suns team development, Hornacek is not the problem. It's the level of talent on the team. He's making the best of the players he's been given. I don't like the 2 PG system personally, but I get why he runs it as this gives the team the best opportunity to win. Archie is not very good right now, and I have diminishing hope that he ever turns out to be a good player.

Agreed LW and Cutter. This was always a situation in which Hornacek walked into rather than it being the system Hornacek wanted to run or envisaged. I'm not a fan of the 2 PG system because it really does require a certain type of personality/style/skillset for it to work. So you can't just put two PG's together and expect to run a successful 2 PG system.
RunDogGun
No Sham, More Cam
Posts: 17,891
And1: 5,437
Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Location: Beyond the Sun

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#450 » by RunDogGun » Thu May 21, 2015 5:33 am

I don't know. I think Hornacek envisioned a Bledsoe/ Goran backcourt to be like his KJ/Hornacek back court, where either guard could run the offense.mit opened up the fastbreak and it gave freedom for either guard to attack the defense before it was set. And it worked in a similar fashion. When IT was introduced, it changed things, and while it may have been thought that competition at the guard position would stretch those players to give their best, it created a bad atmosphere where players played more selfishly, instead of a positive competitive situation.

Could a Bledsoe/Knight be even closer to a KJ/Hornacek back court? Maybe, but we only saw a limited pool in which to swim. The heights are similar, but maybe the leadership is what is lacking. If both commit to the offense, I think we could return to the success we saw two years ago, but everyone would have to buy in. We can't have youngins questioning their roles.
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#451 » by Revived » Mon May 25, 2015 10:48 am

Saberestar wrote:
Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg is widely believed to be the Bulls' preferred replacement, but who would replace him in Ames, Iowa? There's a growing belief that Iowa State would try to lure another Cyclones great from the NBA: Suns coach Jeff Hornacek, currently making less than Hoiberg's average salary with less security than college jobs offer.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1833716/Iow ... oenix-Suns

Boy how great would this be if it went down! :D
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 22,370
And1: 17,004
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#452 » by Saberestar » Fri May 29, 2015 10:19 pm

Assistant coach Kenny Gattison's two-year tenure on the Suns staff ended as he was informed that his contract, set to expire June 30, would not be renewed. The Suns also will reassign assistant coach Mark West to the front office, promote player development coach Corey Gaines to assistant coach and hire D-League affiliate head coach Nate Bjorkgren as a player-development coach.

Director of Player Personnel John Treloar, who ran most of the basketball operation for former Suns General Manager Lance Blanks, also will leave after the June 25 NBA draft to become the associate head coach at Louisiana State, where he was an assistant coach from 2004-08. Treloar has scouted prospects and organized draft workouts for the Suns since Ryan McDonough became general manager in 2013, the same time assistant GM Pat Connelly was hired.

The Suns intend to have a more energetic staff by adding Bjorkgren to run the player development side and by promoting Gaines, the former Phoenix Mercury head coach who has worked in Suns player development since 2010. The Suns will add at least another player development coach to go with Bjorkgren, a veteran D-League head coach who ran the Suns' system for a 34-16 Bakersfield playoff team this season.

West will continue to work with the Suns' big men on the floor, particularly when they are in Phoenix. He has a successful, strong relationship with Alex Len and Markieff Morris. His new role as a director of player relations will focus on mentoring a young Suns team that had behavioral issues on and off the court last season.West's intelligence, communications ability and background as a 17-year NBA player will be used more off the court with players, but his versatility will be used in scouting draft prospects and free agents and in community relations.

Assistant coaches Mike Longabardi and Jerry Sichting retain their bench roles with Gaines joining them on the front row.

In the future, the franchise also might pick up the 2016-17 option year in Hornacek's contract or extend him. He is entering the final guaranteed year of his contract after his teams went 48-34 (Hornacek was NBA Coach of the Year runner-up) in 2013-14 and 39-43 in a tumultuous second season with 23 players used.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /28170329/
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#453 » by kennydorglas » Sat May 30, 2015 2:45 am

Based oh his last comments... I think if IowaSt offers the job for him, he'll take it.
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
JacobHoward
Sophomore
Posts: 118
And1: 38
Joined: Nov 15, 2014
 

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#454 » by JacobHoward » Sat May 30, 2015 7:43 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Based oh his last comments... I think if IowaSt offers the job for him, he'll take it.


"It would be an honor, and it'd be fun, to coach your alma mater, but Ryan and I came here with a purpose and the purpose is to get the Phoenix Suns back on track. We had a good start the first year and some bumps last year but we're committed to being here and get this thing going."

I don't know if you saw this, but he said that yesterday at the draft workouts.
letsgosuns
Veteran
Posts: 2,885
And1: 2,167
Joined: Jan 28, 2014

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#455 » by letsgosuns » Sat May 30, 2015 11:48 pm

Pelicans hired Gentry tonight. Magic hired Skiles. It was reported earlier today that Hoiberg and the Bulls have a 5 year, 25 million deal in place. Iowa State needs a new head coach and I think they are going to call Hornacek. Thibodeau is out there and I wonder who is going to pick him up. Gonna be interesting. I really hope he at least joins the Suns as an assistant coach.
BobbieL
RealGM
Posts: 15,353
And1: 8,997
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#456 » by BobbieL » Sat May 30, 2015 11:48 pm

I am not sure if Hornacek is the problem but I don't like how he handled Marcus yelling at him? But maybe that's the team chemistry issue that Ryan McD needs to fix (it starts with finding a buyer for the Morri and possibly Tucker).

Gentry is being hired by the Pelicans - good hire, OKC should have hired him

Hoiberg is going to the Bulls - hmm

Where is Thibs going? I wish Hornacek wanted to go to Iowa State as I like Thibs.
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#457 » by kennydorglas » Sun May 31, 2015 2:18 am

Oh, we have Longabardi (Thibs 'crappy' ast), McD worked w/ him in Boston.
This can definitely happen.

Like I said, if Iowa St. offer Hornacek the job, he'll take it... he's more like a NCAA coach anyway (job security, high salary, alma mater).
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#458 » by Revived » Sun May 31, 2015 6:31 am

letsgosuns wrote:Pelicans hired Gentry tonight. Magic hired Skiles. It was reported earlier today that Hoiberg and the Bulls have a 5 year, 25 million deal in place. Iowa State needs a new head coach and I think they are going to call Hornacek. Thibodeau is out there and I wonder who is going to pick him up. Gonna be interesting. I really hope he at least joins the Suns as an assistant coach.

Thibs probably won't even consider the Suns to be the HC here (even despite the McD connection) much less being an assistant coach for a team that can't make playoffs.

Worst case scenario, he will follow the Alvin Gentry path and go join a rising playoff team.
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#459 » by Revived » Sun May 31, 2015 6:33 am

BobbieL wrote:I wish Hornacek wanted to go to Iowa State as I like Thibs.

I think that's the dream for most Suns fans. But that's all it is, a dream.
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 37,451
And1: 22,229
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Is Hornacek the problem? 

Post#460 » by Revived » Sun May 31, 2015 6:33 am

kennydorglas wrote:Like I said, if Iowa St. offer Hornacek the job, he'll take it... he's more like a NCAA coach anyway (job security, high salary, alma mater).

Plus college players probably won't walk all over him either.

But can he just leave just like that? Don't the Suns have to agree to it or fire him to accept another coaching offer?

Return to Phoenix Suns