The 2016 Offseason Thread

[bigfoot]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Apparently some fans think we don't even have players that are marginal starters.

[saintEscaton]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class? Its an easy choice for me.

[saintEscaton]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Apparently some fans think we don't even have players that are marginal starters.

Excluding Bledsoe its a fair assessment

[Fo-Real]

Mac, I wouldn't so much call that guy a troll, but yet another negative unless fan ( how you call yourself a fan and have such a negative outlook, I don't know). Looking forward to Booker taking the next step. Looking forward to Len doing the same. I actually want to see what healthy Bledsoe, Tj, and Knight bring, Bledsoe and Knight were VERY fun to watch to start last season. Barbosa will be a breath of fresh air, love him back in the Valley. If team chemistry is right, unlike last year's start (queen Quief, Jeff and the front office), we could surprise some people. Let's suit up and play games before turning our backs, it's called optimism.

Definition of a troll to me is some one who hasn't posted much and comes in spouting negative crap before introducing themselves or contributing the board in any meaningful way. I'd welcome the dude to hang around ... maybe just start off with a bit more tact.

Well then Mac is right and should not have been warned in your opinion, I agree with you.

[bigfoot]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class?

I'd rather get swept by the Dubs and then trust McD to make another great pick because you might end up with Beasley or Odom or Morrison or the Candyman or Brown. Plus we have those Miami picks that will be looking pretty good in the future.

[NavLDO]

I really believe the Suns are going to start the season with an eye on the playoffs. Our situation is so much more positive this year than last without the distraction of the Morri and the players not responding to Horny. Vegas has the Suns and Nets as the worst two teams in the league. That gives fuel to the players.

I don't see a league worst team with Bledsoe back and Dudley replacing the malcontent Kief. Remember that Kief played absolutely horrible last year until Watson took over. Before Bledsoe was injured and while Kief was playing poorly the Suns went 12-19. Booker wasn't playing any substantial minutes either.

Add in a healthy Chandler, Knight, and our new acquisitions in Barbosa, Ulis, Bender, and Chriss plus Alan Williams emergence and we should be very competitive if everyone stays healthy. The team chemistry should be infinitely better than last year. Factoring in all these changes I really don't think playing .500 ball is unrealistic.

So in the case of competing for the playoffs, Bender and Chriss fight for minutes at the backup PF spot. That competition is a good thing. One of them will earn 15-20 minutes per game while Dudley plays 28-30. It's likely both will get an opportunity in the game depending on how they are playing and the match ups.

In the unlikely event we are horrible after 40 games then we can look to move some vets (Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker, Dudley, Chandler, and Barbs) at the trade deadline and give the rooks more burn.

The Suns are hated by the media, if and when we win the Pacific, that means we beat out four teams from California, two being from LA and one from SF/Oak two huge NBA markets. They could care less about us. 2nd worst team in the league? Ridiculous.

Bledsoe, Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, and Booker are all solid players, then you add in PJ. I wonder what the over/under win total is in Vegas, that will tell you what they really think. We are definitely better than the LAL.

Well, it's not just the media that thinks we will be bad. It's Vegas, and obviously that's not bias because they are in the business of making money. And besides the media and Vegas, you have general basketball fans, as you can see here. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1462460

I'm with JMac on this one...ALL he said in his original post was enlarged above. Vegas, like the media, is often wrong, and it's clear they are not taking a lot of what happened to us last season into consideration. Heck, last year we were the 4th worst team, and you can't tell me we are in a worse position/have a worse roster than last year. We all knew we were going to 'stink up the joint' last year at the start of the season; we all saw the problems we were facing. No one here thinks we are playoff squad as is, but we sure as heck are in a better position than we were last year.

Duds>>>Malcontent-Morrris
Watson>>Lame-Duck Horny
Barbosa>>Price

We were 12-19 when Bledsoe went down. Assuming he didn't, and the fact that we were 8-15 (once Watson had a month to figure stuff out) in Mar-Apr, that puts us at 20-34. We were 3-25 between those two time periods. I highly doubt we are closer to that 3-25 team than the 20-34 team, as we sit right now, which if you extrapolate that 20-34 out to a full season, that's close to a 31-51 squad, and would've put us around 7th worst record, which is what you are saying we'll end up with this season.

That's all JMac is really saying; we aren't the worst, or 2nd worst team in the league, regardless of what Vegas or the media think. And yes, we are fans and think our team is better, blah, blah, blah, but realistically speaking, fan or no fan, you can't tell me we are worse at the start of this season than we were at the start of last season. If someone put up a poll in the GB and, without emotion, simply laid out the facts from the beginning of last season to the beginning of this season, and asked which team was better starting off, I'd venture to say more would say we are a better team this year than last.

[letsgosuns]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class?

I would rather go into the season with a positive attitude and try to win games rather than say we cannot win the championship this year so let's tank for the number one pick. Plus, do you really think a team that has as much talent as the Suns is going to get a top-five pick? The team should be so much better it is not even comparable to last year.

Look at the differences between last year and this year:

Last year- Markieff destroying the season, Hornacek doing a terrible job, Lots of injuries

This year- No more Markieff as he has been replaced by two top-ten picks and Jared Dudley, A coach in Watson that players love playing for, Winning veterans that bring leadership, A rising star in Booker, Overall more positive energy surrounding the team, Bledsoe building chemistry as a leader

It is pretty obvious to me the differences between this upcoming season versus last season. Just the fact that the Suns will not have a power forward out there actively trying to lose games and tanking on purpose will do wonders for them. The Suns now have players with great attitudes that want to win.

I am not saying the Suns will the championship. But when you have so many young players, I think it is an enormous mistake to say hey guys let's suck so we can add one more draft pick. That creates a losing culture and that is not the way I believe an organization should behave. Look at the 76ers. Absolutely suck every year. No free agents want to go there and most players want nothing to do with them. I have no interest in becoming like them. I doubt any fan does. Is that what you want?

[NavLDO]

The Suns are hated by the media, if and when we win the Pacific, that means we beat out four teams from California, two being from LA and one from SF/Oak two huge NBA markets. They could care less about us. 2nd worst team in the league? Ridiculous.

Bledsoe, Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, and Booker are all solid players, then you add in PJ. I wonder what the over/under win total is in Vegas, that will tell you what they really think. We are definitely better than the LAL.

Well, it's not just the media that thinks we will be bad. It's Vegas, and obviously that's not bias because they are in the business of making money. And besides the media and Vegas, you have general basketball fans, as you can see here. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1462460

This is just a bad roster without a lot of upside. The best young talent on the roster has an upside of being adequate starters at best. There are no young superstars or potential stars who can be the building blocks of a contending team.

Ah, another 'crystal baller' who can see into the future and knows exactly what a young talent's future holds. Awesome. I need to know what kind of job I'm going to have when I retire from the Navy within the next two years. Are you able to tell me what my prospects are for a job in a certain location, and whether I'll be competitive or not?? Thanks!

So, Booker, at best, is an adequate starter? Same with Warren? Bender? Chriss? Ulis? Even Len? None of these guys have any potential to breakout into All-Star status? Hell, Knight was just a few votes shy of being an All-Star, so you are saying that none of our young talent has the ability to be an even better prospect than Knight? Ok, buddy, whatever...I love people who think they know what's going to happen in 2-3 years, especially regarding 18-19 YO players. Heck even 21-23 YOs in their 2nd/-4th seasons in the league.

[bigfoot]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class?

I would rather go into the season with a positive attitude and try to win games rather than say we cannot win the championship this year so let's tank for the number one pick. Plus, do you really think a team that has as much talent as the Suns is going to get a top-five pick? The team should be so much better it is not even comparable to last year.

Look at the differences between last year and this year:

Last year- Markieff destroying the season, Hornacek doing a terrible job, Lots of injuries

This year- No more Markieff as he has been replaced by two top-ten picks and Jared Dudley, A coach in Watson that players love playing for, Winning veterans that bring leadership, A rising star in Booker, Overall more positive energy surrounding the team, Bledsoe building chemistry as a leader

It is pretty obvious to me the differences between this upcoming season versus last season. Just the fact that the Suns will not have a power forward out there actively trying to lose games and tanking on purpose will do wonders for them. The Suns now have players with great attitudes that want to win.

I am not saying the Suns will the championship. But when you have so many young players, I think it is an enormous mistake to say hey guys let's suck so we can add one more draft pick. That creates a losing culture and that is not the way I believe an organization should behave. Look at the 76ers. Absolutely suck every year. No free agents want to go there and most players want nothing to do with them. I have no interest in becoming like them. I doubt any fan does. Is that what you want?

Well said ... some folks need to open their eyes and realize that last year we won 23 games. We will absolutely win more this year based on the differences you gave.

[saintEscaton]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class?

I would rather go into the season with a positive attitude and try to win games rather than say we cannot win the championship this year so let's tank for the number one pick. Plus, do you really think a team that has as much talent as the Suns is going to get a top-five pick? The team should be so much better it is not even comparable to last year.

Look at the differences between last year and this year:

Last year- Markieff destroying the season, Hornacek doing a terrible job, Lots of injuries

This year- No more Markieff as he has been replaced by two top-ten picks and Jared Dudley, A coach in Watson that players love playing for, Winning veterans that bring leadership, A rising star in Booker, Overall more positive energy surrounding the team, Bledsoe building chemistry as a leader

It is pretty obvious to me the differences between this upcoming season versus last season. Just the fact that the Suns will not have a power forward out there actively trying to lose games and tanking on purpose will do wonders for them. The Suns now have players with great attitudes that want to win.

I am not saying the Suns will the championship. But when you have so many young players, I think it is an enormous mistake to say hey guys let's suck so we can add one more draft pick. That creates a losing culture and that is not the way I believe an organization should behave. Look at the 76ers. Absolutely suck every year. No free agents want to go there and most players want nothing to do with them. I have no interest in becoming like them. I doubt any fan does. Is that what you want?

Yes I am a staunch advocate of embracing a full rebuild, may not have to gut the roster but at least organically bottom out, we didn't make any stopgap treadmill moves so I think we are gunna suck regardless. Hinkie had to take the fall and didn't get to reap the fruits of the Process but he has set up Philly for the forseeable future and BC only has him to thank. Anyways I think the West gets even deeper now, everyone is gunna beat up on each other so maybe a .500 record is enough to sneak in but doubt Portland/ Houston/Grizz aren taking a step back, Pels/Jazz look to resurge and Minny could make finally make the jump

[bigfoot]

The Suns are hated by the media, if and when we win the Pacific, that means we beat out four teams from California, two being from LA and one from SF/Oak two huge NBA markets. They could care less about us. 2nd worst team in the league? Ridiculous.

Bledsoe, Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, and Booker are all solid players, then you add in PJ. I wonder what the over/under win total is in Vegas, that will tell you what they really think. We are definitely better than the LAL.

Well, it's not just the media that thinks we will be bad. It's Vegas, and obviously that's not bias because they are in the business of making money. And besides the media and Vegas, you have general basketball fans, as you can see here. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1462460

This is just a bad roster without a lot of upside. The best young talent on the roster has an upside of being adequate starters at best. There are no young superstars or potential stars who can be the building blocks of a contending team.

I swear this dude is just a Lakers fan looking for some fun.

[letsgosuns]

Here is my view of the league. There are only two teams that can win the title assuming they stay healthy. The Cavaliers and Warriors. The other 28 teams, it is already over. The Grizzlies, Rockets, Jazz, Raptors, Pacers, Bulls, Celtics, Clippers, Thunder, they are all in the same boat. The third best team, the Spurs, I do not think even they have a chance. None of these teams do.

Now I look at the young teams in the league with the potential of becoming the next great teams and I see two teams in particular. The Suns and Timberwolves. That is not me being a homer. That is me being completely unbiased and looking at the rosters. Huge young talent on both teams with positive role models surrounding the young players. I do not consider the Lakers or 76ers to be like that at all. Have some big time talent but organizations that are not in a great place and have major issues.

The key is I think the Suns already have their foundation. They do not need any more young guys. Rave all you want about the upcoming 2017 draft class but there are no guarantees regarding anything. Telling young players on the Suns or Timberwolves to tank rather than strive to make the playoffs is probably the worst possible thing an organization could do. Talk about destroying a young player's will. I do not want that.

[DirtyDez]

People on here talking about playoffs. The best move for this franchise is to tank to a top 7 pick or so.

We need to trade Tucker and Chandler. Bledsoe may be too good to keep us that bad if he's healthy all year. But that would be the best move.

Draft a PG, SF, or C of those available in the top 7 of this next draft and our cast of youngsters looks amazing

I'm ok with a top-10 pick b/c there's still a chance you could jump into the top-3. IIRC the Orlando Magic lost the tie-breaker to make the playoffs in 93' and still jumped to #1 in the Chris Webber draft. So it's possible.

If the Suns' pick in the 7-14 range I find it hard to believe they'd keep the pick.

[saintEscaton]

Well, it's not just the media that thinks we will be bad. It's Vegas, and obviously that's not bias because they are in the business of making money. And besides the media and Vegas, you have general basketball fans, as you can see here. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1462460

This is just a bad roster without a lot of upside. The best young talent on the roster has an upside of being adequate starters at best. There are no young superstars or potential stars who can be the building blocks of a contending team.

I swear this dude is just a Lakers fan looking for some fun.

"Hot takes" are a bannable but regurgitating the same koolaid sipping platitutudes are perfectly acceptable

[NTB]

Philly absolutely have no future better than us with that roster structure. They have some good talents but I don't think they rebuilded properly. Yea Simmons is a great talent, but they need to trade one of Noel or Okafor if they choose to continue with Embiid, which we couldn't see how he plays yet. With other teams know that they have to trade one of their big men, they won't offer too much and it will turn to Philly as a one year wasted by tanking, because they won't be able to make use of their pick when they trade it for lesser value.

They added veteran guards because they have a big hole at guard position, but those moves were temporary solutions and they still have no guard for future.

They have Simmons-Embiid-Saric(which I'm not sure if he will succeed in NBA) and one of Noel-Okafor. Btw Philly has no shooting at all with that core. I really don't like their core, they are really good individually but not very much when they combine.

Suns have talent and prospects at every position.

Ulis-Bledsoe(still not too old) - Booker - Warren - Bender/Chriss - Len

[NavLDO]

The Suns are hated by the media, if and when we win the Pacific, that means we beat out four teams from California, two being from LA and one from SF/Oak two huge NBA markets. They could care less about us. 2nd worst team in the league? Ridiculous.

Bledsoe, Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler, Knight, and Booker are all solid players, then you add in PJ. I wonder what the over/under win total is in Vegas, that will tell you what they really think. We are definitely better than the LAL.

I think you're a classic case of a fan overrating their teams own players. There isn't a player on the team who is more than a marginal starter. It's a team full of role players and guys who should be coming off the bench for at a decent team.

Welcome and don't mind the "seasoned vets", you are probably wiser than those who look down upon you. JMac is as guilty as anyone of your accused offense

It all makes sense now, saint. So you agree with that assessment then, since you said he was 'wiser' than the other 'seasoned vets' on this forum? A guy that's made all of 6 posts?? OK, then, again, makes sense. You are a fan of discounting young players and their abilities, based solely upon, what, exactly?? How they played in college/Europe as teenagers??

At least Frank shows some sense of reason and moments of positivity, yet you would rather claim a new poster with 6 posts 'wiser' than the forum Vets. Similar to how you view our players, right? Off of extremely limited evidence?? What exactly do you know about Mr. Joe Pong that leads you to believe he's so much wiser?? Because he makes one post that you are in agreement with??? Awesome. Like I said, it all makes sense now, with your 'Len-hate' and such.

[darealjuice]

He's so much smarter than everyone here because he agrees with Saint lol how predictable

[NavLDO]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Apparently some 'rookie posters' think we don't even have players that are marginal starters.

FIFY. Pong isn't a fan. Not sure what I'd classify him as, other than what I just did...he's a 'rookie poster' who can either, apparently see into the future...OR...makes assessments of players off of less than 3 years, and apparently, in some cases, absolutely ZERO NBA experience. Yep, as saint said, Mr. Pong is 'wise'...

[bigfoot]

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class?

I would rather go into the season with a positive attitude and try to win games rather than say we cannot win the championship this year so let's tank for the number one pick. Plus, do you really think a team that has as much talent as the Suns is going to get a top-five pick? The team should be so much better it is not even comparable to last year.

Look at the differences between last year and this year:

Last year- Markieff destroying the season, Hornacek doing a terrible job, Lots of injuries

This year- No more Markieff as he has been replaced by two top-ten picks and Jared Dudley, A coach in Watson that players love playing for, Winning veterans that bring leadership, A rising star in Booker, Overall more positive energy surrounding the team, Bledsoe building chemistry as a leader

It is pretty obvious to me the differences between this upcoming season versus last season. Just the fact that the Suns will not have a power forward out there actively trying to lose games and tanking on purpose will do wonders for them. The Suns now have players with great attitudes that want to win.

I am not saying the Suns will the championship. But when you have so many young players, I think it is an enormous mistake to say hey guys let's suck so we can add one more draft pick. That creates a losing culture and that is not the way I believe an organization should behave. Look at the 76ers. Absolutely suck every year. No free agents want to go there and most players want nothing to do with them. I have no interest in becoming like them. I doubt any fan does. Is that what you want?

Yes I am a staunch advocate of embracing a full rebuild, may not have to gut the roster but at least organically bottom out, we didn't make any stopgap treadmill moves so I think we are gunna suck regardless. Hinkie had to take the fall and didn't get to reap the fruits of the Process but he has set up Philly for the forseeable future and BC only has him to thank. Anyways I think the West gets even deeper now, everyone is gunna beat up on each other so maybe a .500 record is enough to sneak in but doubt Portland/ Houston/Grizz aren taking a step back, Pels/Jazz look to resurge and Minny could make finally make the jump

But what is the reality. Last year we had a 3-25 stretch where we had a disgruntled player, a lame-duck coach, a new coach, Bledsoe injured, Knight injured, and Warren injured. Do you really expect we will have a stretch like that again with the changes that were made this off season? Dudley replacing Kief is huge. Kief's offensive and defensive ratings were the worst of his career last season. He shot .280 for three pointers. It will be impossible to bottom out unless 1) we have major injuries again, 2) we decide to start all the rookies and second year players, or 3) we trade all the vets. None of those are happening so be prepared for a 33-45 win season.

[NavLDO]

I hope the Suns make the playoffs, even as an 8th seed. They already have enough young players that I believe are a great foundation to become a contending team one day. It is time they start growing and winning games. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Booker, Len, Warren, Goodwin, Bender, Chriss, and Ulis are all between 18-23. Seven players that age is a lot of young guys. And I think they all have potential to be impact players. I also think some of them have a chance to be all stars, and I am not talking many years from now. I think within a couple years from now.

The fact some fans already want to tank a full season blows me away. It is only July. I was all for tanking last year halfway through the season because the team was terrible and we all knew they sucked. The makeup of the team was awful. It was the worst Suns season I ever saw. I feel the complete opposite about the team now. These are the most exciting Suns young players since 2004. Apparently the national media even sees it more than some of you fans. Lots of praise from writers of different teams and analysts about the Summer Suns.

Some people said it is not even fair that Booker was playing in the Summer League because he is the best player out there and runs circles around everyone else. Funny because I do not recall any media guy saying that about D'Angelo Russell who was the number two pick in the draft last year. Yet literally everyone was going crazy for Booker. Pretty awesome when people say a 19 year old player is way too good to play in the Summer League. Then there are people saying Bender is the most impressive rookie in the draft. So the Suns have multiple young guys that many people are super high on yet some fans want the team to purposefully lose games before training camp starts. Idk what to say to those fans. I guess they like having high lottery picks every year and reading mock drafts more than watching their own team win games.

Well would you rather get swept by the Dubs on national television or have a chance at one of the crown jewels of a coveted 2017 class? Its an easy choice for me.

Yep, me too, seeing as we have ZERO idea of how many of those Freshman will either play well, play much at all, or will decide to declare for the draft. Skal was supposed to be a superstar; drafted 28th overall after a poor Freshman showing. We saw a guy that no one even new his name last year at this time go 10th overall. But yeah, let's 'tank' some more so we can hope the ping-pong balls fall in our favor, and we get a TRUE prospect...you know, one that is better than just a 'marginal starter', like the rest of our team. At least getting swept by the Dubs would put us on Nat'l TV and maybe, just maybe, entice a non-'marginal starter' to want to come in an lead/grow with our young squad. Naw, we wouldn't want that, would we...