The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[Kerrsed]

My order of importance: 1. Skills. 2. IQ 3. Intangibles. 4. Athleticism.

Its tough to put an order to it, because i know plenty of guys why had them in that order and...well....didnt last too long in the league due to not having the Athleticism.

Spoiler:

Skills and IQ you can learn, but you cant learn athleticism!

Is Doncic really that unathletic for someone 6'8"+, 230+ lbs? This is 2 years old measurements in P3.

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

Did i say anything about Doncic? NOPE!

Was just responding to "The Formula" and trying to state that there really is no formula or order of importance when it comes to things like Skills/Athleticism/Intangibles/IQ.

Just because im currently Pro-Ayton doesnt mean i dont like Doncic or arnt interested in him. It also doesnt mean that every post i make is some how trying to slight him, so you need to relax a bit my friend.

[Mjee]

There's different types of basketball players. Having no other way to describe it. The Athletes. The Skilled. The Intangibles. The Cerebral. And combinations of the above. Larry Bird; skilled, intangibles, cerebral. Kobe Bryant; athletes, skilled, cerebral. Jordan, Russell, Jabbar; all of the above.

My order of importance: 1. Skills. 2. IQ 3. Intangibles. 4. Athleticism.

I’m a little higher on Doncic due to the combination of skills, IQ and intangibles.

Hahahah Ayton has the best skills for a big man, he’s also pretty smart, he’s a great passer for a center, and he’s the most athletic big man since AD

[kennydorglas]

I hadn't seen this. I think I just fell in love.

Watch on YouTube

I might need a third option on this survey, y'all.

I absolutely love Mo Bamba.

And great comment by Ayton aiming to be a 4 in the NBA lol

[sunsbg]

Ayton will realize soon enough that he is not a 4.

[Damkac]

So now Luka leads the poll again? I guess it's Euroleague MVP effect.

I can't vote. I was Doncic guy all the time but now I already think of Ayton as a Sun. I will be happy with either and hope for the best.

As somebody said earlier, I wish Ayton hadn't played for Arizona because now Suns FO MUST draft him. I'm not saying he is worse than Luka but I wish they could judge them both objectively and choose who they think is better prospect and I feel that even IF they like Doncic more they will still have to go with Ayton to not make Arizona fans mad.

[DaleyBlind]

Im fairly confident we will take Ayton, id be fine with either though.

[Mischa]

There's different types of basketball players. Having no other way to describe it. The Athletes. The Skilled. The Intangibles. The Cerebral. And combinations of the above. Larry Bird; skilled, intangibles, cerebral. Kobe Bryant; athletes, skilled, cerebral. Jordan, Russell, Jabbar; all of the above.

My order of importance: 1. Skills. 2. IQ 3. Intangibles. 4. Athleticism.

I’m a little higher on Doncic due to the combination of skills, IQ and intangibles.

Hahahah Ayton has the best skills for a big man, he’s also pretty smart, he’s a great passer for a center, and he’s the most athletic big man since AD

How about the little things? The championship things. The details, the gritty pieces, the focus. That’s my biggest worry with him.

[Damkac]

What PG do we add then if Ayton is the choice ?

(Elephant in the room)

3&D
With the argument that "Doncic would take the ball out of Booker's and Jackson's hands nad it's a bad thing" it would be dumb if we now get a ball dominant PG.

I really hope that none of our PGs from last season will play for us in the next season. Maybe except Harrison, he would be nice as the 3rd PG.

[Sunzgunz]

I would caution 'Team Luka' when assuming he will have a more impacting rookie season. While time may prove you right, history says you have a better chance of being wrong.

I obviously dont know the answer yet, but i know historically, players have a better a chance at imposing elite size and/or athleticism in their rookie season than they do IQ.

Luka is an incredible and versatile talent that may be better than Ayton after 2 seasons, 5 seasons, 10 seasons, hell, maybe even in his rookie season. But as smart as this teenager currently is, i highly doubt hes in that top 10 percetile in his rookie season, let alone top 5% in the entire NBA. However, I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if hes there after 3-5 seasons. Furthermore, i dont mind drafting him on that premise alone, but...

Ayton's transitional gap has proven to be a little easier; atleast initially. His successful college career was predicated on him imposing elite size/athleticism. Will Ayton's niche place him in the top 10 percentile in the entire nba his first year? Probably! Possibly even top 5%. History has favored these rookie seasons statistically.

Again, not saying Ayton will have a better career, hell, not even saying he will have a more impactful rookie season. Just suggesting that the oppisite is probably premature.

With that said, id be fine with either!

In fact, while highly suspicious of Sacramento's claims, im loving the possibility of them committed to go big. Doncic's supposed refusal to play for a number of teams, which possibly includes atlanta and memphis. While memphis may be keen on trading that 4th pick. Hmmmm?

I know its pipish, but is this the year the draft gods atone for thier sins? Been along stretch, please dont wake me

Heres my dream:

1) draft ayton

2) i like the online suggestion of us trading: TJ Warren, Tyson Chandler, #16 & #31 of a deep draft, 2019 Suns 1st Rounder (top 3 protected) for Memphis' #4 and Parsons (also giving memphis cap relief) = Doncic

3) trade our #59 and a future 2nd round pick, or two with possible cash should Shake, or another solid PG fall to the 2nd round.

4) sign Nurkic; go after Tyreke and Barton (exum if we miss out on Barton or Shake/pg). I realize we probably cant afford all 4.

C- Ayton
Pf- Nurkic
Sf- JJ
Sg- Booker
Pg- Doncic

Block/Stretch Bench: Bender and Chriss
Wing Bench: Barton and Daniels
Pg Bench: 2 of the 3 Tyreke, Shake, Exum

[thamadkant]

These are the possibilities (biased included)

Doncic method..

Booker (Jerry West part deux): 25/5/5
Jackson (Clyde Drexler part deux): 20/6/4
Doncic (Larry Bird part deux): 20/4/7 (potentially 20/9/7 if he plays PF which I believe is how the Suns should use him)

Just put hard nose bangers, scrappers and rebounders... shot blockers at the other 2 spots to make it hard for all the players that penetrate pass Booker and Doncic.


Ayton method..

Booker (Jerry West part deux): 25/5/5
Jackson (Clyde Drexler part deux): 20/6/4
Ayton (Moses Malone with David Robinson body part deux): 20/13/2 and 1.5 blocks

Put a 3D Point guard and a stretch 4 that can block shots and you're good to go

[76ciology]

Was there a high level star big in the NBA who has a questionable D entering the league? Isnt like 90% of the high level star bigs in NBA history all had defense as one of their strengths?

But then if Ayton turns into an outlier, he might be a top 10-15 player in the league. With defense, he might look like the good version of DMC.

[76ciology]

One thing I question about Doncic is he may end up taking a lot of bunnies and floaters, which isnt that much of a bad thing.

Defensively, the issue is not on staying on his man. Its how quick he can rotate and get deflections. That’s how modern D is played nowadays that turned guys like Tony Allen and Avery Bradley obsolete.

[juanc]

Some of you guys here are talking that Ayton is the best athlete since AD( C position), but you are forgeting that Luka is probably the smartest player since LeBron. To compare Dunleavy with Luka is just as comparing Ayton to Baynes

[Fo-Real]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

[Kerrsed]

Was there a high level star big in the NBA who has a questionable D entering the league? Isnt like 90% of the high level star bigs in NBA history all had defense as one of their strengths?

But then if Ayton turns into an outlier, he might be a top 10-15 player in the league. With defense, he might look like the good version of DMC.

Yeah there was, his name was Karl-Anthony Towns.

Spoiler:

I wonder what happened to that guy.

[juanc]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

Never did I say that Ayton is a mindless guy. The opposite I was asking for some recent interviews of his so I can paint a better picture of him.
And when it comes to Luka it is just my opinion, maybe I presented it in a wrong way. But you can't get the real picture of his feel watching the highlights and looking at the stats.
I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone on this board with my comments

[Saberestar]

Was there a high level star big in the NBA who has a questionable D entering the league? Isnt like 90% of the high level star bigs in NBA history all had defense as one of their strengths?

But then if Ayton turns into an outlier, he might be a top 10-15 player in the league. With defense, he might look like the good version of DMC.

I think that Ayton's bad defense is a myth.

I have reviewed some of his games to stay just focused on his defense, and I think is a solid defender who is gonna be positive on that side of the ball in the NBA.

He is not like Cousins, who IMO has always been a bellow average defender. The attitude is completely different too, Cousins stops playing defense when he wants....Ayton is way more serious about the game.

Ayton's motor is OK, not great, but he is active and moves his feet constantly.

He is REALLY GOOD defending in the perimeter and he enjoys the challenge of stay in front of smaller and quicker players. I think that all of that is gonna translate to the NBA pretty well.

Arizona had a terrible defensive C next to Ayton (Ristic) and that made him to stay more in the perimeter defending PFs and even SFs when the other team played small ball. Ayton always made a solid job on them and he stayed in front of his man with ease.

The only thing that he needs to improve is help defense. That is esy to fix with coaching and experience. So I am fine with Ayton's defense.

[gaspar]

Was there a high level star big in the NBA who has a questionable D entering the league? Isnt like 90% of the high level star bigs in NBA history all had defense as one of their strengths?

But then if Ayton turns into an outlier, he might be a top 10-15 player in the league. With defense, he might look like the good version of DMC.

Yeah there was, his name was Karl-Anthony Towns.

Spoiler:

I wonder what happened to that guy.

BS. In college KAT was 10 times better on defense than Ayton. Actually defense was one of his main strengths entering the league.

[Kerrsed]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

Lets not bring race into it. No one has mentioned Race (And it could definitely be considered a 2-way street in this discussion). I also have not seen one instance where Doncic being called smart sounded like the poster was trying to infer that Ayton or any other black athlete wasnt (And specially wasnt due to race).

[Fo-Real]

Tired of seeing post about how Doncic smartest **** person on Earth, and Ayton is some mindless athletic grunt.... YOU KNOW ****!!!! BORDERLINE RACIST, don't care how that sits with you!!!!

Never did I say that Ayton is a mindless guy. The opposite I was asking for some recent interviews of his so I can paint a better picture of him.
And when it comes to Luka it is just my opinion, maybe I presented it in a wrong way. But you can't get the real picture of his feel watching the highlights and looking at the stats.
I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone on this board with my comments

Blanket statement, DID NOT QUOTE OR MENTION YOU. So, if you are feeling some kinda of way its your own ****. These are two under 20 year old players get I keep reading about Lucas smarts and basketball IQ and how his smarts make him better...same in the past for Bender and queese when THEY BOTH **** SUCK EQUALLY and are both non effective and lost at times. Just my personal ****, don't expect or care if others see or agree. If the shoe fits wear that ****, but we know nothing about the brains in people and what they process.