2020 Preseason Speculation - Lineup battles underway

[alamin330]

I know it’s extremely early but Jalen Smith looks like trash.
Vassell on the other hand is looking good.
SMDH.

[Mulhollanddrive]

He's being asked to play like a wing at the moment hanging around the perimeter, moving abouts for spot ups.

I thought he'd be playing the Baynes stretch 5 role in PnR and PnP.

[alamin330]

He should be asked to stay home. He looks terrible

[RedIndian]

Young bigs take ages to be impactful. I mean it's Ayton's 3rd year, and he's STILL not even close to where we want him to be. It's exactly why the pick was very strange. Especially when we passed on 2 of the highest floor prospects in the draft in Vassell and Haliburton.

[Djedefre]

Reinventing the wheel is always a smart move, if you ask Jones The Clown.

[Jarlaxle0204]

I've actually liked what I've seen from Jalen Smith so far. He looks to be aggressive. His shot is pretty good. He was a little hard on himself for making a mistake (I think he recognized he waited too long when getting the ball in the post instead of just getting the ball up before the defense could adjust). Things like that point to a player who wants to improve and be good. I think he'll be a good addition for us and hope that this board has a little patience with him.

[RedIndian]

Vassell and Haliburton were kinda like the Mikal and SGA of the 2018 draft. Well-rounded, high floor prospects with good ceilings well. Literally EVERY single draft board had them going top 10 - because guess what they were both excellent prospects, and would have been a fine long term cost controlled addition to any roster - both rebuilding and contending.

Who did we draft? The Omari Spellman of the 2018 draft - high character young big who can block shots and hit 3s.

How's that going to turn out? Mikal and SGA are already young studs. Spellman is, well, okay I guess. Traded once already. Struggling to be really impactful without actually sucking.

Not rocket science to figure out how Jalen Smith is going to pan out vis-a-vis Vassell and Haliburton.

[Walt_Uoob]

I'm banking on all of our combo guards looking better pretty soon due to Saric coming back and everyone being more familiar with the system. In the bubble I felt like our bench offense was successful because it didn't really require a "floor general" PG and was more of an offense by committee with everyone sharing the ball and everyone also willing to take open shots. Payne for example looked good in the bubble but he looked nothing like Rubio or Paul. So once everyone gets fully up to speed on the offensive sets, two combo guards plus Saric should be plenty of facilitation to keep things humming. Not to mention one of those combo guards will often be Devin Booker.

I do have concerns about how well that strategy holds up when Paul misses whole stretches of games, but generally I like this approach. There are a few excellent backup PGs out there who would allow us to play more of a consistent style from the starting units to the bench units, but there aren't many of them, so if you don't have the luxury of like a Dinwiddie or McConnell coming off the bench, you shouldn't try to keep playing that PG-dominated style. The bench mob style we used in the bubble works better than, say, subbing in Tyler Ulis for Chris Paul and trying to keep the same offense, and it's also less reliant on that fairly unique player type, so easier to find guys to fit.

[Walt_Uoob]

Vassell and Haliburton were kinda like the Mikal and SGA of the 2018 draft. Well-rounded, high floor prospects with good ceilings well. Literally EVERY single draft board had them going top 10 - because guess what they were both excellent prospects, and would have been a fine long term cost controlled addition to any roster - both rebuilding and contending.

Who did we draft? The Omari Spellman of the 2018 draft - high character young big who can block shots and hit 3s.

How's that going to turn out? Mikal and SGA are already young studs. Spellman is, well, okay I guess. Traded once already. Struggling to be really impactful without actually sucking.

Not rocket science to figure out how Jalen Smith is going to pan out vis-a-vis Vassell and Haliburton.

I think you're spot on with the first two comps but I'll maintain hope that we took the Serge Ibaka of this draft.

[alamin330]

I've actually liked what I've seen from Jalen Smith so far. He looks to be aggressive. His shot is pretty good. He was a little hard on himself for making a mistake (I think he recognized he waited too long when getting the ball in the post instead of just getting the ball up before the defense could adjust). Things like that point to a player who wants to improve and be good. I think he'll be a good addition for us and hope that this board has a little patience with him.

In 3 games the so called blocking shooting machine has only 1 block and is shooting 17% from 3 and 33% 2pt.
I've also seen every and any player from the opposing team take their turns enjoying easy buckets on him. Looks like a lost puppy out there. Deer in the headlights look, in the wrong place at the wrong time a lot of times.
Before preseason a report said Suns were having a hard time keeping Smith off the floor. I think there was a typo and they meant Suns having a hard time putting Smith on the floor. With ZERO fan in attendance he is shooting so miserably. 50% from the ft line. Man he sucks

[RedIndian]

Vassell and Haliburton were kinda like the Mikal and SGA of the 2018 draft. Well-rounded, high floor prospects with good ceilings well. Literally EVERY single draft board had them going top 10 - because guess what they were both excellent prospects, and would have been a fine long term cost controlled addition to any roster - both rebuilding and contending.

Who did we draft? The Omari Spellman of the 2018 draft - high character young big who can block shots and hit 3s.

How's that going to turn out? Mikal and SGA are already young studs. Spellman is, well, okay I guess. Traded once already. Struggling to be really impactful without actually sucking.

Not rocket science to figure out how Jalen Smith is going to pan out vis-a-vis Vassell and Haliburton.

I think you're spot on with the first two comps but I'll maintain hope that we took the Serge Ibaka of this draft.

Spellman was kinda a forced comparison because I was looking at parallels from the 2018 draft, but when I come to think of it, the comparison isn't that off. Spellman averaged 7/5/1 last year, which is kind of what I expect from Smith his first couple of years.

I think the Ibaka comparison is wishful thinking as much as all of us hope it turns out to be true. People forget but Ibaka was an absolute freak athlete coming out of the draft - 7'4 wingspan and could absolutely jump out of the gym Amare style. He was averaging 2.4 bpg by year 2 and 3.7 bpg by year 3. Do we seriously expect Jalen to hit those gaudy heights? Seems very improbable.

[RunDogGun]

I am not worried about Smith right now. I like the way he worked on his handling during the summer. I would like to see him with Saric during the preseason because I think the two of them will be together often. Preseason has been rough so far for the Suns. We have spurts of the bubble success, and then spurts of terrible offense and defense. Hopefully we iron things out.

Smith has as many blocks as Ayton so far, settle down people, its just preseason during a pandemic.

[alamin330]

I just dont understand the logic behind taking a risk on Smith who is just as equally likely to be a bust as Haliburton when you need a pg. I thought Haliburton would be a bust but he's quick and plays the passing lanes and doing a decent job as pg. Knowing you're getting CP3 why not take him and let him learn from CP3? Instead you draft Smith. James Jones does a great job in team building but does as equally a bad job in talent evaluation. If he keeps this up Devin Booker is going to be gone real soon

[alamin330]

I am not worried about Smith right now. I like the way he worked on his handling during the summer. I would like to see him with Saric during the preseason because I think the two of them will be together often. Preseason has been rough so far for the Suns. We have spurts of the bubble success, and then spurts of terrible offense and defense. Hopefully we iron things out.

Smith has as many blocks as Ayton so far, settle down people, its just preseason during a pandemic.

Ayton is in his 3rd year and we know he's good. Smith just got here and he's looking like a bum. Pandemic has nothing to do with his basketball skills. He just looks like a bust. He was the 10th pick. Hyped up as a blocker and shooter. He's playing 3rd stringers. He's looking real bad out there

[RedIndian]

I'm banking on all of our combo guards looking better pretty soon due to Saric coming back and everyone being more familiar with the system. In the bubble I felt like our bench offense was successful because it didn't really require a "floor general" PG and was more of an offense by committee with everyone sharing the ball and everyone also willing to take open shots. Payne for example looked good in the bubble but he looked nothing like Rubio or Paul. So once everyone gets fully up to speed on the offensive sets, two combo guards plus Saric should be plenty of facilitation to keep things humming. Not to mention one of those combo guards will often be Devin Booker.

I do have concerns about how well that strategy holds up when Paul misses whole stretches of games, but generally I like this approach. There are a few excellent backup PGs out there who would allow us to play more of a consistent style from the starting units to the bench units, but there aren't many of them, so if you don't have the luxury of like a Dinwiddie or McConnell coming off the bench, you shouldn't try to keep playing that PG-dominated style. The bench mob style we used in the bubble works better than, say, subbing in Tyler Ulis for Chris Paul and trying to keep the same offense, and it's also less reliant on that fairly unique player type, so easier to find guys to fit.

In theory, I think that works as long as your combo guards are competent ball handlers. They don't need to be natural PGs, but they DO need to able to be handle the ball well under pressure. I just don't think any of Carter, Galloway or Moore are great ball-handlers unfortunately. With that hydra line-up, I just struggle to see us even bringing the ball across half court without the danger of a turnover.

Payne is a decent ball-handler (though it gets loose at times); but the sample size for his competent shooting and defense is so small, that it doesn't inspire much confidence.

The other issue of course is that that ball-sharing style works when your bigs are competent passers. Last year, we had Baynes, Saric and Kaminsky ALL of whom were very intelligent movers of the ball. This year we have the putrid Jones who's literally one of the least skilled guys I've ever seen. Motley is a scrub, and then you have Smith, who well isn't really renowned for his passing. You're heavily reliant on Saric staying fit, and niggling injuries have been an issue for him.

[RunDogGun]

I just dont understand the logic behind taking a risk on Smith who is just as equally likely to be a bust as Haliburton when you need a pg. I thought Haliburton would be a bust but he's quick and plays the passing lanes and doing a decent job as pg. Knowing you're getting CP3 why not take him and let him learn from CP3? Instead you draft Smith. James Jones does a great job in team building but does as equally a bad job in talent evaluation. If he keeps this up Devin Booker is going to be gone real soon

We have also needed rebounding and shot blocking badly. Bigs often take longer to develop and we finally have an environment and culture to develop players. Booker isn't going anywhere.

[RedIndian]

Jalen will look much better when he plays the 5, and also when he's not constantly playing as part of these platoon bench line-ups where we're rolling out Jones, Motley and the off-guards.

[RunDogGun]

I am not worried about Smith right now. I like the way he worked on his handling during the summer. I would like to see him with Saric during the preseason because I think the two of them will be together often. Preseason has been rough so far for the Suns. We have spurts of the bubble success, and then spurts of terrible offense and defense. Hopefully we iron things out.

Smith has as many blocks as Ayton so far, settle down people, its just preseason during a pandemic.

Ayton is in his 3rd year and we know he's good. Smith just got here and he's looking like a bum. Pandemic has nothing to do with his basketball skills. He just looks like a bust. He was the 10th pick. Hyped up as a blocker and shooter. He's playing 3rd stringers. He's looking real bad out there

You are over exaggerating. He doesn't look like a bust. His skills are fine, and he actually works on improving his skills all the time. The pandemic has had a major influence on the rush into training camp, preseason, and then the actual season, especially for someone that was just drafted not to long ago. He is often being put in the corner, he needs time to get used to a new role. He has a great work ethic, he will figure it out. Damn, three games into the preseason with crazy rotations and frankly not a lot of actual good passing from our guards, and people expect Smith to be Anthony Davis already?

[alamin330]

I just dont understand the logic behind taking a risk on Smith who is just as equally likely to be a bust as Haliburton when you need a pg. I thought Haliburton would be a bust but he's quick and plays the passing lanes and doing a decent job as pg. Knowing you're getting CP3 why not take him and let him learn from CP3? Instead you draft Smith. James Jones does a great job in team building but does as equally a bad job in talent evaluation. If he keeps this up Devin Booker is going to be gone real soon

We have also needed rebounding and shot blocking badly. Bigs often take longer to develop and we finally have an environment and culture to develop players. Booker isn't going anywhere.

I hope you're right. But sounds like a bunch of excuses. Its strange here. Ayton is a baseline 18/10 guy on a bad day and he gets no credit. Jalen Smith was advertised as a 3D guy who can contribute right away but hes shooting worse than Shaq and people are bigs take a long time to develop. So that excuse only true when its convenient for you? Cuz I dont hear anyone saying that when it comes to Ayton. Let's keep things fair when we criticize players. Smith can't get a pass for playing like a bum but ayton has 1 off game and you're ready to trade him

[RunDogGun]

Jalen will look much better when he plays the 5, and also when he's not constantly playing as part of these platoon bench line-ups where we're rolling out Jones, Motley and the off-guards.

Honestly I see him doing better with Saric at the five. But I agree about the platoon bench, and usually an undersized 1,2,3 that have been inconsistent hasn't opened things up either. Utah was super scrappy and really hustled. I was hoping we would match their aggressiveness. A few times we did.

I am going to hold my judgements until we have all our guys playing consistently.