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The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#461 » by rsavaj » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:32 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
Scutt wrote:
I would sign and trade Bledsoe for whatever we can get, and I would never have brought PJ Tucker back. The goal would be to let Markeiff, Len, Goodwin, and Warren all get a chance to bond together and develop, while securing a good draft position. I am well aware that this is unlikely and a step backwards, but I am a Suns fan and I can dream. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward.

I don't know how you walk, but I rarely ever take a step backwards to go forwards. :banghead:

I am so glad you don't run this team. :crazy:


Well, there is a rare neurological disorder:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584[/youtube]


Turns out it was a hoax!
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#462 » by JDLAW » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:33 am

RunDogGun wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
He did say that two of the three (referring to Bledsoe, Dragic, and IT), would be on the floor at all times. He may have walked back that statement, but he did say it. :wink:


I agree this was said and I think it was said in part to drown out the din from the media and pundits who are questioning the move. I do think we'll see Green and Goodwin get time in the backcourt also and not just injury replacement or garbage minutes. Everyone thought Green might be released last off season, but he turned out to be one of the biggest impact players on the roster. I just do not see him getting buried in the numbers game. I could actually see Green and Thomas as a platoon substitute for Bledsoe and Dragic at times. Just as soon as a team figures how to match up with Bledsoe and Dragic - here comes the smaller Thomas and the larger Green to make the opposition scramble for a new matchup.


I still see Jeff sticking with either Goran or Bledsoe on the court at all times, and then see which works best with those two (.either GG or IT). But I see Green getting a close to equal minutes at the three as he will at the two. After watching Goodwin in the SL, I really don't see him getting minutes for a good portion of the season. We just have better options. Maybe he gets some burn if defense is sorely needed.

But it all will depend on the Bledsoe situation, if he is content with the contract he got/gets, and then how this whole thing plays out with his teammates. I think every player will understand that you have to do what is best for your family, but they will also understand that he is being offered a decent contract, and wonder if he cares more about the team and it's success or just the paycheck.


You might be right about Bledsoe and Dragic, we'll have to see. There were times last season where both Dragic and Bledsoe were available, but on the bench and Smith was running the show.

I'd put no stock in the SL. Goodwin was OK but not great and i do not believe it is indicative of his progress. The real test will be training camp and the exhibition games. If and when Bledsoe is back, the contract will be forgotten.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#463 » by Moochthemonkey » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:38 am

ginobiliflops wrote:S(B)utt us trolling. Just ignore him.

Also, this site sucks to use on a phone.


Don't start. Unless you want to see this thread turn into a bicker-fest again. He has a reasonable opinion.

And yes- this site is horribly unstable...now to download the adblock plugin like navysully recommended..
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#464 » by Scutt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:41 am

^ Thank you. I am not here to troll, honestly, I guess I just see things differently than most. I am just a passionate Suns fan.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#465 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:50 am

rsavaj wrote:Honestly, I can see the logic behind the "one step back, two steps forward" thing. Tanking, rebuilding, whatever the hell you want to call it...it's a good fantasy to have, and we all want to dream of that superduperstar we drafted leading this city to its first championship.

But as I've gotten a bit older(mid-20s, mind you) and busier, with less time to really stress out about the NBA the way I did during the SSOL years, my priority as a fan has shifted from "THIS TEAM MUST WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP OR ELSE!" to "when I come home from work at the end of the day, I just want to watch an entertaining and competitive team."

Philadelphia and Orlando may be closer to a championship than we are, because maybe they've drafted the next big thing. But you know what? I....kind of don't really care about the title or bust stuff anymore. I know that sounds blasphemous, and 17 year old me would not believe I'm saying it, but as long as the team is fun and filled with guys I can root for, I'll take it. Maybe we never win a title because we're never bad enough to land "THE GUY", and yeah, that's frustrating, but if I have a chance at watching a good team play fun basketball most nights of the year, I'm more than satisfied at this point.

Carry on.


It's not blasphemous at all. (skip to third paragraph if not planning on reading whole post) I've thought about posting the same thing the last couple of hours. I'm happy being the 4th winningest franchise of all time. Of course I'd like a championship and would love a superstar but those are not easy to come by. We almost got one with Kareem but lost the coin flip and then ended up with the 2nd pick after David Robinson. You could tank for years and never get the pick right. It's been said before, that if OKC would have gotten the #1 pick the year they took Durant they would have taken Oden, and if they got the #2 pick the year they took Westbrook they would have drafted Beasley. How would that have worked out for them?

I wouldn't trade those KJ or Nash years for anything. I'd take a team that is ALWAYS competitive as long as they are not past their prime fighting for the 8th seed (then I would rebuild, and hopefully fast...this past season was kind of a miracle). I admit, for a while I was kind of hoping we would be bad to get one of those top guys, especially the way our team played the year before this past one and the projection of our team for this past year being abysmal anyway. Despite their being a handful of people who expected us to be pretty good (I remember Big Foot for sure was the one who believed in the team the most), no one knew how good Bledsoe, Green or Plumlee could be.

I kind of hate the championship or bust mentality these days. I'd easily rather have a team over a 10 year period that

1)barely missed the playoffs a couple of years, got knocked out in the first round a couple of years, got knocked out in the second round a couple of years, got knocked out in the WCF a couple of years, and lost in the NBA finals a couple of years...

than

2)a team that was terrible for 7 years, suddenly made it to the 2nd round one year, than to WCF one year, then won an NBA championship

#1 It would be fun yet heartbreaking but also in a way it's special because you go through it all with the players and fans

#2 would be nice to see it built and get there, but it would be pretty frustrating and probably hard to watch a lot of the time. More importantly, if this route was taken, trying to get a few top picks and hoping they lead you to a championship, doesn't guarantee anything, and for most teams, they end up in the lottery for years, only to finally reach the playoffs for one or two years and then realize they are at their peak and they have to start over.

Bad teams typically have guys wanting out, nobody wanting to go play for them, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Philly over the years. It will be a long process and I think it is more likely a disaster than a success, but either way it will be interesting to see. They are probably at best, about 4 years away from being at least 500.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#466 » by Scutt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:52 am

JDLAW wrote:
Scutt wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Bledsoe just disappears on a puff of smoke with nothing in return? Brown? Tucker is buried on the bench? This might be your ideal, but for most of us this is major step backwards. Ennis and Brown will likely get little to no playing time on eh NBA level. The goal does not seem to be winning games with this proposal and is extremely unlikely.


I would sign and trade Bledsoe for whatever we can get, and I would never have brought PJ Tucker back. The goal would be to let Markeiff, Len, Goodwin, and Warren all get a chance to bond together and develop, while securing a good draft position. I am well aware that this is unlikely and a step backwards, but I am a Suns fan and I can dream. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward.


Sorry - don't buy it. You S&T Bledsoe for whatever and the return is not good enough to crack the rotation of your ideal line-up? Without saying it expressly, you're advocating and dreaming of a tank-job. i do not think the Suns want any part of that. BTW tanking is not going to be quite so profitable as the NBA is looking at and is likely to alter the lottery odds.


The line up I posted wouldn't be set in stone, it was more to demonstrate that I would like a team led by Dragic and a bunch of young promising guys. If I had it my way, we would sign and trade trade Bledsoe to the Bucks for John Henson and have him start. I am not advocating losing games, I just don't see a huge amount of room for our current squad to grow. If we hit the reset button, if you will, we could have a squad with a much higher ceiling, and that is what I prefer. This current Suns team might not even make the playoffs, but some of you guys act like we are a top seed or something.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#467 » by Kerrsed » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:53 am

rsavaj wrote:Turns out it was a hoax!


Please show a little sensitivity. My daughter was also an attention whore, and let me assure you, it’s no laughing matter.
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#468 » by SunsFanSSOL » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:01 am

EB tweeted happy birthday to Suns player development coach, Irving Roland.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/EBled2/status/492071961095581696[/tweet]

He doesn't hate us!
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#469 » by spanishninja » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:34 am

****, Dallas just picked up Aminu.,
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#470 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:43 am

spanishninja wrote:****, Dallas just picked up Aminu.,

Outside of a trade or resigning Bledsoe, I think our offseason is done.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#471 » by PhxSuns1 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:46 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
spanishninja wrote:****, Dallas just picked up Aminu.,

Outside of a trade or resigning Bledsoe, I think our offseason is done.


Were we expecting/wanting to pick up Aminu or something?
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#472 » by sunskerr » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:57 am

Aminu?

Whatever, man. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he'd be a 4th stringer on this team.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#473 » by JTrain » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:00 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:EB tweeted happy birthday to Suns player development coach, Irving Roland.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/EBled2/status/492071961095581696[/tweet]

He doesn't hate us!


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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#474 » by PhxSuns1 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:05 am

sunskerr wrote:Aminu?

Whatever, man. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he'd be a 4th stringer on this team.


Exactly...
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#475 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:12 am

It's too bad grumpysaddle isn't around, because I just came across the perfect item for him to get on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNSIGNED-PHOENI ... 2c87873118
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#476 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:16 am

PhxSuns1 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
spanishninja wrote:****, Dallas just picked up Aminu.,

Outside of a trade or resigning Bledsoe, I think our offseason is done.


Were we expecting/wanting to pick up Aminu or something?

Doubt it. Our front line is already stacked with fairly average big men.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#477 » by Cutter » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:48 am

Scutt wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Scutt wrote:
I would sign and trade Bledsoe for whatever we can get, and I would never have brought PJ Tucker back. The goal would be to let Markeiff, Len, Goodwin, and Warren all get a chance to bond together and develop, while securing a good draft position. I am well aware that this is unlikely and a step backwards, but I am a Suns fan and I can dream. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward.


Sorry - don't buy it. You S&T Bledsoe for whatever and the return is not good enough to crack the rotation of your ideal line-up? Without saying it expressly, you're advocating and dreaming of a tank-job. i do not think the Suns want any part of that. BTW tanking is not going to be quite so profitable as the NBA is looking at and is likely to alter the lottery odds.


The line up I posted wouldn't be set in stone, it was more to demonstrate that I would like a team led by Dragic and a bunch of young promising guys. If I had it my way, we would sign and trade trade Bledsoe to the Bucks for John Henson and have him start. I am not advocating losing games, I just don't see a huge amount of room for our current squad to grow. If we hit the reset button, if you will, we could have a squad with a much higher ceiling, and that is what I prefer. This current Suns team might not even make the playoffs, but some of you guys act like we are a top seed or something.

Why should Dragic sacrifice his career and dreams of winning a championship to be the leader of that young horrible team? If GM Scutt built that team around him, Goran would take advantage of his free agent status next year to find a better team to play on with a better chance to win.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#478 » by JDLAW » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:54 am

Scutt wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Scutt wrote:
I would sign and trade Bledsoe for whatever we can get, and I would never have brought PJ Tucker back. The goal would be to let Markeiff, Len, Goodwin, and Warren all get a chance to bond together and develop, while securing a good draft position. I am well aware that this is unlikely and a step backwards, but I am a Suns fan and I can dream. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward.


Sorry - don't buy it. You S&T Bledsoe for whatever and the return is not good enough to crack the rotation of your ideal line-up? Without saying it expressly, you're advocating and dreaming of a tank-job. i do not think the Suns want any part of that. BTW tanking is not going to be quite so profitable as the NBA is looking at and is likely to alter the lottery odds.


The line up I posted wouldn't be set in stone, it was more to demonstrate that I would like a team led by Dragic and a bunch of young promising guys. If I had it my way, we would sign and trade trade Bledsoe to the Bucks for John Henson and have him start. I am not advocating losing games, I just don't see a huge amount of room for our current squad to grow. If we hit the reset button, if you will, we could have a squad with a much higher ceiling, and that is what I prefer. This current Suns team might not even make the playoffs, but some of you guys act like we are a top seed or something.



If you want to sign and trade Bledsoe to some other team at least get something good for him. Hensen is a mediocre -terrible player and we have better development players on this team right now.

What you are facing is the law of diminishing returns. Going from 25 to 40 wins is not that hard for most teams. Going from 40-45 wins is harder and every successive step up you requires many times the effort. I understand what you're saying and in some ways even agree to a point, which is why I was never in favor of a trade for Kevin Love. But what you have to understand is that regardless of what you advocate, unless the team gets lucky and gets an obvious franchise player like Duncan or Durant (not necessarily obvious at draft time), constant shuffling of players and intentionally "taking steps backwards to take a step forward" is the classic stuck in neutral.

Trading a 24 year old Bledsoe who has star potential for a 23 year old Henson who does not, is not moving forward at all.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#479 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:57 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:S(B)utt us trolling. Just ignore him.

Also, this site sucks to use on a phone.


Don't start. Unless you want to see this thread turn into a bicker-fest again. He has a reasonable opinion.

And yes- this site is horribly unstable...now to download the adblock plugin like navysully recommended..


My apologies, I thought he was.

I don't understand the tankers, never have, never will. As a fan, it's hard to invest in a team that has no intention on winning. Last years team was fun as hell to watch. I'd take that every year over a franchise that wins a championship then sucks for 10+ years.
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Re: The One And Only Offseason Thread 4 

Post#480 » by Scutt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:14 am

JDLAW wrote:
Scutt wrote:
JDLAW wrote:
Sorry - don't buy it. You S&T Bledsoe for whatever and the return is not good enough to crack the rotation of your ideal line-up? Without saying it expressly, you're advocating and dreaming of a tank-job. i do not think the Suns want any part of that. BTW tanking is not going to be quite so profitable as the NBA is looking at and is likely to alter the lottery odds.


The line up I posted wouldn't be set in stone, it was more to demonstrate that I would like a team led by Dragic and a bunch of young promising guys. If I had it my way, we would sign and trade trade Bledsoe to the Bucks for John Henson and have him start. I am not advocating losing games, I just don't see a huge amount of room for our current squad to grow. If we hit the reset button, if you will, we could have a squad with a much higher ceiling, and that is what I prefer. This current Suns team might not even make the playoffs, but some of you guys act like we are a top seed or something.



If you want to sign and trade Bledsoe to some other team at least get something good for him. Hensen is a mediocre -terrible player and we have better development players on this team right now.

What you are facing is the law of diminishing returns. Going from 25 to 40 wins is not that hard for most teams. Going from 40-45 wins is harder and every successive step up you requires many times the effort. I understand what you're saying and in some ways even agree to a point, which is why I was never in favor of a trade for Kevin Love. But what you have to understand is that regardless of what you advocate, unless the team gets lucky and gets an obvious franchise player like Duncan or Durant (not necessarily obvious at draft time), constant shuffling of players and intentionally "taking steps backwards to take a step forward" is the classic being stuck in neutral.

Trading a 24 year old Bledsoe who has star potential for a 23 year old Henson who does not, is not moving forward at all.


If I had assurances that Bledsoe's knee's wouldn't be a future issue and he wasn't insisting on a max, I would want him back in a heart beat, in fact I would take him over Goran because he is younger with room to grow and I value his defense, but I am really not sure what is going on with him so I left him off my roster. I know Henson is not a star, but he is young and I think he could do well in the right setting. I defiantly wouldn't call him terrible. There is no way we are going to get equal value in a sign and trade for Bledsoe, I don't think Henson and picks would be too horrible of a deal, but that's just me.

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