The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[lilfishi22]

^^ I have no idea how I would find that stat lol

Somebody please help me out with that. Never saw a stat or anyone saying anything proving that. Just my observation from watching last season unless I had a dream for the entire season.

That's the annoying thing isn't it? When you want to prove something based on personal testimonials, it doesn't really travel very far especially when there's a ton of evidence supporting the opposite.

[Jdiddy701]

What's annoying is how I saw a number of bricks from Frye when we needed them to go down but still show decent % from 3pt. That's the annoying part.

I'm gonna say it again, I really like Frye and loved his time here. Loved him more when Amare was here.


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[bwgood77]

What's annoying is how I saw a number of bricks from Frye when we needed them to go down but still show decent % from 3pt. That's the annoying part.

I'm gonna say it again, I really like Frye and loved his time here. Loved him more when Amare was here.


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Well a good three pt shooter will still have more bricks than makes, but the important thing is the respect of a PF defender having to get out to the 3 pt line to guard him and that is when Dragic and others can do their damage. We will see how it works without him, but Dragic wasn't nearly as effective with Scola playing.

[MGA]

Frye worked out much better at center when amare was here, IMO.

He is not a PF. At least that's the problem I've always had with it


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[JTrain]

It's more the pick and pop ability that we'll miss rather than just pure spacing. Tolliver or Keef can both stand outside and catch-and-shoot threes. In fact Tolliver can do it (maybe) better than Frye. Whether they can be as impressive in collaborating with Dragic on the pick and pop is the big thing to watch IMO.

I don't want to get too optimistic so I'll predict that there will be a bit of a drop-off there, but not as significant as some fear. I think the upgrade at backup PG and SF will more than make up for it.

My biggest concern is Gerald Green and finding appropriate minutes for him.

[Sunsdeuce]

You guys do realize tolliver is only getting paid 3 million for a reason. He isn't very good.

Some here are expecting way too much from him.

Tolliver is not going to replace fryes shooting. What some of you don't realize is that frye had an amazing quick release. Which is combined with his very high point of release on his shot. The high point of release was very hard to guard because of his size (6-11) combined with he quick release. These factors is what helped phx be successful.

A journeyman by the name of tolliver cannot and will not reproduce this affect. Tolliver is a good 3 inches shorter with a lower release point. Much easier to defend. Combine that with is awful defense. Some of you are going to be heart broken.


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[JTrain]

Probably a bit controversial, but I feel I need to say it. I think the city has a lot to do with Bledsoe reportedly not wanting to be here. As Kareem famously said of Milwaukee:

"Live in Milwaukee? No, I guess you could say I exist in Milwaukee, I am a soldier hired for service and I will perform that service well. Basketball has given me a good life, but this town has nothing to do with my roots. There's no common ground."

Culture wise, Phoenix is far different than Bledsoe's hometown of Birmingham, AL. Phoenix is 6.5 % African American, Birmingham is 73.4 %. Hate to bring race into this but it probably is a major factor. Growing up, all of Bledsoe's friends, neighbors, teachers, and coaches were black and now he comes to a city with a very low black population. Probably feels a bit lonely and experienced a culture shock, which is why he felt the need to have his brother move out to Phoenix with him (to my knowledge he lived alone in LA). People mention the nightlife in Scottsdale as being good, but it's just not the same as it is in South, as Bledsoe is accustom to.

Of course this is not the case for every player. Some guys will play anywhere and not have a problem with it, but there are some guys who are very particular in the place where they'd like to play. Ricky Rubio was hesitant to play in Minnesota because it was so different from Spain. Pau Gasol didn't want to play in OKC due the what he reported described as a lack of culture. Yi Jianlian hated playing for the Bucks and request a trade to a place with more Asian-Americans. Of course, this is all just speculation, but I'm starting to believe it's the case when people are saying that the issue here is personal, Bledsoe never saying he likes the city, and how he would only willingly come back for the max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... _ethnicity

Google Maps

[JTrain]

You guys do realize tolliver is only getting paid 3 million for a reason. He isn't very good.


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Stats indicate he can be very effective in a specific role, which I think is what we got him for.

[SunsFanSSOL]

Probably a bit controversial, but I feel I need to say it. I think the city has a lot to do with Bledsoe reportedly not wanting to be here. As Kareem famously said of Milwaukee:

"Live in Milwaukee? No, I guess you could say I exist in Milwaukee, I am a soldier hired for service and I will perform that service well. Basketball has given me a good life, but this town has nothing to do with my roots. There's no common ground."

Culture wise, Phoenix is far different than Bledsoe's hometown of Birmingham, AL. Phoenix is 6.5 % African American, Birmingham is 73.4 %. Hate to bring race into this but it probably is a major factor. Growing up, all of Bledsoe's friends, neighbors, teachers, and coaches were black and now he comes to a city with a very low black population. Probably feels a bit lonely and experienced a culture shock, which is why he felt the need to have his brother move out to Phoenix with him (to my knowledge he lived alone in LA). People mention the nightlife in Scottsdale as being good, but it's just not the same as it is in South, as Bledsoe is accustom to.

Of course this is not the case for every player. Some guys will play anywhere and not have a problem with it, but there are some guys who are very particular in the place where they'd like to play. Ricky Rubio was hesitant to play in Minnesota because it was so different from Spain. Pau Gasol didn't want to play in OKC due the what he reported described as a lack of culture. Yi Jianlian hated playing for the Bucks and request a trade to a place with more Asian-Americans. Of course, this is all just speculation, but I'm starting to believe it's the case when people are saying that the issue here is personal, Bledsoe never saying he likes the city, and how he would only willingly come back for the max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... _ethnicity

Google Maps

Yeah, I think Bledsoe would love to play for the Hawks due to the proximity to Birmingham and the nightlife. However, for some strange reason, Atlanta has never been a hotspot for FA's or big stars, despite the booming night life. Guys seem to just like to hang out there during the off-season, rather than play there. That may have more to do with the organization though and and poor fan support. I don't know if they'd see Bledsoe as much of an upgrade over Teague though.

[Sunsdeuce]

You guys do realize tolliver is only getting paid 3 million for a reason. He isn't very good.


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Stats indicate he can be very effective in a specific role, which I think is what we got him for.

But that's the problem. The last thing the suns need is a 6 foot 8, 3 point shooting specialist masquerading as a power forward. We have absolutely no depth at power forward. Literally markieff is the only power forward on the roster. Marcus is not a natural power forward. Marcus is a small forward. We are going to get killed down low!

If I'm the opposing team, I'm just going to pound the hell out of the suns down low. The suns are going to be one of the top fouling teams. Not by choice though.


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[thamadkant]

Probably a bit controversial, but I feel I need to say it. I think the city has a lot to do with Bledsoe reportedly not wanting to be here. As Kareem famously said of Milwaukee:

"Live in Milwaukee? No, I guess you could say I exist in Milwaukee, I am a soldier hired for service and I will perform that service well. Basketball has given me a good life, but this town has nothing to do with my roots. There's no common ground."

Culture wise, Phoenix is far different than Bledsoe's hometown of Birmingham, AL. Phoenix is 6.5 % African American, Birmingham is 73.4 %. Hate to bring race into this but it probably is a major factor. Growing up, all of Bledsoe's friends, neighbors, teachers, and coaches were black and now he comes to a city with a very low black population. Probably feels a bit lonely and experienced a culture shock, which is why he felt the need to have his brother move out to Phoenix with him (to my knowledge he lived alone in LA). People mention the nightlife in Scottsdale as being good, but it's just not the same as it is in South, as Bledsoe is accustom to.

Of course this is not the case for every player. Some guys will play anywhere and not have a problem with it, but there are some guys who are very particular in the place where they'd like to play. Ricky Rubio was hesitant to play in Minnesota because it was so different from Spain. Pau Gasol didn't want to play in OKC due the what he reported described as a lack of culture. Yi Jianlian hated playing for the Bucks and request a trade to a place with more Asian-Americans. Of course, this is all just speculation, but I'm starting to believe it's the case when people are saying that the issue here is personal, Bledsoe never saying he likes the city, and how he would only willingly come back for the max.

Look, what I'm about to say may not go down well, but since we're all honest here, I will say it anyways.

What you are saying, even if the numbers arent exactly accurate, plays a big factor indeed.

Even most Suns forums, in particular here in RealGM, I get that vibe… what vibe?
The vibe that most/some prefer a "white" star over a "black" or "non-white" star…
I feel that if there was 2 Lebron talent/production type players, 1 is white and 1 is black, exactly same attitude, exactly same manners etc… except their looks.
Most (some) here will make a preference and choose the "white" version… again, this is just the vibe I get here. It could be just be me, but its mainly the context of people's opinions and posts about players in the last 7-8 years since I've been here.

Phoenix is a "white" biased town, in my head anyways.

I'm not white, nor black… I'm half spanish/half asian decent, so to me, in all honesty and by nature, I don’t care which one I choose of the above (black or white equal star).
But with that said, every time I play NBA 2K or NBA Live in the past or even Soccer games, or any type of games that allows me to create a character… I always create a "half-breed" looking character lol.
Or in NBA2K14's case, I made a white star player who happens to be an elite athlete and a black star player who happens to be a sharp shooter and relies on silky smooth game instead… just to be impartial and non-stereotype.

But to relate that to Bledsoe… maybe that’s how he sees Phoenix also…. its still doesn’t stop me from wanting to live there though. I would move there in a second.

I hope other stars dont think like Bledsoe, if it is indeed true that he doesnt want to live in Phoenix due to the lack of "black" people etc.

[JTrain]

The last thing the suns need is a 6 foot 8, 3 point shooting specialist masquerading as a power forward.

Isn't that basically what Frye was? That type may not be great for defense but it seems to work well for wins in Hornacek's system.

[Sunsdeuce]

The last thing the suns need is a 6 foot 8, 3 point shooting specialist masquerading as a power forward.

Isn't that basically what Frye was? That type may not be great for defense but it seems to work well for wins in Hornacek's system.

Lol, keep thinking that. You need to get some game film. Totally different players.


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[JTrain]

The last thing the suns need is a 6 foot 8, 3 point shooting specialist masquerading as a power forward.

Isn't that basically what Frye was? That type may not be great for defense but it seems to work well for wins in Hornacek's system.

Lol, keep thinking that. You need to get some game film. Totally different players.

So do you want me to keep thinking that or change what I'm thinking?

Do you think Frye is a traditional PF?

[Sunsdeuce]

Isn't that basically what Frye was? That type may not be great for defense but it seems to work well for wins in Hornacek's system.

Lol, keep thinking that. You need to get some game film. Totally different players.

So do you want me to keep thinking that or change what I'm thinking?

Do you think Frye is a traditional PF?

Do u not remember how frye use to frustrate griffin when he guarded him.


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[Scutt]

.

Even most Suns forums, in particular here in RealGM, I get that vibe… what vibe?
The vibe that most/some prefer a "white" star over a "black" or "non-white" star…
I feel that if there was 2 Lebron talent/production type players, 1 is white and 1 is black, exactly same attitude, exactly same manners etc… except their looks.
Most (some) here will make a preference and choose the "white" version… again, this is just the vibe I get here. It could be just be me, but its mainly the context of people's opinions and posts about players in the last 7-8 years since I've been here.

Phoenix is a "white" biased town, in my head anyways.

I actually felt like I saw the opposite of this with the Alex Len pick last year. We had the choice of Len or Noel, both had injury concerns, and we went with Len. It seemed to me that many would have preferred Noel because he passes the eyeball test in what you want with a center, being long, athletic, and a shot blocker. I think people felt like and still feel that Alex Len will just be another "big white stiff" center. With his injury concerns aside, I think his ceiling is higher than Noels, but some tend to overlook that because doesn't have the flashy moves.

[JTrain]

Lol, keep thinking that. You need to get some game film. Totally different players.

So do you want me to keep thinking that or change what I'm thinking?

Do you think Frye is a traditional PF?

Do u not remember how frye use to frustrate griffin when he guarded him.


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I never said Frye was a worthless defender. Nor that Tolliver was as good as Frye overall. Just that Frye is not a real PF type and that works well here. He is a shooter first and foremost.

[Sunsdeuce]

Here is why tolliver is not going to be as effective as frye in our system. Pay close attention to the release.

Fryes shoot was high and quick. Notice the height and how the ball is away from the defender. Also the ball is away from his body during the shooting motion. Also notice the off hand is on the side of the ball. This allows for quicker shot preparation. Thus quicker release. Very difficult to defend.


Now tolliver has a shot that comes out from his body. His shot release is closer to the ground. His off hand is in front of the ball. This means more time in the preparation of the shot. Much easier to guard. If the defender is committed, it is not a difficult shot to guard.


This is what stats don't tell you. This is why game film is more important than stats.

[JTrain]

What's the argument about? I never said Tolliver would be as effective as Frye. Not once.

Also, the difficulty of defending a shot is reflected in the stats. Shots that are blocked or modified don't go in, and therefore bring down FG%.

[thamadkant]

.

Even most Suns forums, in particular here in RealGM, I get that vibe… what vibe?
The vibe that most/some prefer a "white" star over a "black" or "non-white" star…
I feel that if there was 2 Lebron talent/production type players, 1 is white and 1 is black, exactly same attitude, exactly same manners etc… except their looks.
Most (some) here will make a preference and choose the "white" version… again, this is just the vibe I get here. It could be just be me, but its mainly the context of people's opinions and posts about players in the last 7-8 years since I've been here.

Phoenix is a "white" biased town, in my head anyways.

I actually felt like I saw the opposite of this with the Alex Len pick last year. We had the choice of Len or Noel, both had injury concerns, and we went with Len. It seemed to me that many would have preferred Noel because he passes the eyeball test in what you want with a center, being long, athletic, and a shot blocker. I think people felt like and still feel that Alex Len will just be another "big white stiff" center. With his injury concerns aside, I think his ceiling is higher than Noels, but some tend to overlook that because doesn't have the flashy moves.

big diffence IMO..
Len was "ho hum production, high ceiling" prospect.
Noel was "Elite production, high ceiling" prospect.

Had they both have the same scouting reports, same potential, same talent, same injury risk... basically exactly same projection/potential... but different looks, one white, one black.... what would be the popular pick for Suns fans here in RealGM?

A scrubby white guy vs an exciting atheltic black guy... even the most biased "white" player fan cannot hide his/her race preference by selecting the scrubby white guy... but equal everything else except race.... thats what I think will show exactly what I'm thinking...