Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[Fo-Real]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiBTedRwS5w[/youtube]

[Fo-Real]

Anyone know if Alex's finger is all healed up?


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That could be the lead in to so many dirty jokes!!

[SideSwipe]

Cue the Double Dragon graphic again.....Kerrsed?

Should be fun. Zoran has played well in the tournament. I like that he plays decent defense and that he likes to run the break. Worry a little bit about his athleticism at his position.

[Desertfox]

If we get Zoran, you know what this means right?

We are trading Bledsoe for Mason Plumlee!

[LukasBMW]

If we get Zoran, you know what this means right?

We are trading Bledsoe for Mason Plumlee!

That actually seems like a fair trade to me.

[JTrain]

Not that I know but something tells me that Archie will be gone (whether trade or free agency) before we all see his maturation. I think Archie is going to be very good but I also think he is about 3 years away from that.


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It is sad, but I have to agree. The Suns are more concerned with making the playoffs than they are the future and developing players, which doesn't bode well for Archie. Its a shame because he has a lot of potential, but I guess our front office likes bringing in ready guys like IT instead. I'm going to laugh in 4 years, when Goodwin is tearing it up somewhere, while the suns are still fighting for an 8th seed without a star.

That's what I am saying. The suns desperately need an actual star. I love goran but his is more of a Manu for Duncan and in the suns scenario we have no Duncan. Bledsoe is easily replaced. PG ls one of the more easy positions to fill.

The suns have a plethora of quality role players but we need a star. And to get a star comes in one of two ways. Either you tank (philly,Cleveland) you trade (lakers, boston, Cleveland) for the star. You can't keep having a draft pick between 8-14 and think you are going to build a contender that way. That's why we are 5 years and counting with no playoffs. Like it or not we didn't make the playoffs and thats reality.


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Historically there's only one draft position that gets you a 50% chance or better of drafting an All-Star-level player: First.

Currently, if you go 0-82 (ultra-tank) you have only a 25% chance of getting that pick. It looks like the NBA may make that less in the near future.

Then you have teams that have the luck to get the top pick and draft an All-Star and still don't have the power to move above average (ex. Cleveland with Kyrie).

We have draft picks with star potential: TJ, Len, Bogdan and even Archie still have a shot to become All-Stars. Our path is probably equally or more likely to net a top five team than tanking.

[LukasBMW]

I think we are doing this more for Goron insurance then we are because we like Zoron.

Zoron will be our 15th man to develop in practice. And having him under contract will let us re-sign Goron without drama.

We are going all in on Dragic and selling on Bledsoe.

[MrTwister]

Cue the Double Dragon graphic again.....Kerrsed?

Should be fun. Zoran has played well in the tournament. I like that he plays decent defense and that he likes to run the break. Worry a little bit about his athleticism at his position.

Something like this ?

[gaspar]

If we get Zoran, you know what this means right?

We are trading Bledsoe for Mason Plumlee!

Can we get Bojan Bogdanovic and Brook Lopez too?

[Desertfox]

Only if we can also trade for Robin Lopez

[RunDogGun]

Historically there's only one draft position that gets you a 50% chance or better of drafting an All-Star-level player: First.

Currently, if you go 0-82 (ultra-tank) you have only a 25% chance of getting that pick. It looks like the NBA may make that less in the near future.

Then you have teams that have the luck to get the top pick and draft an All-Star and still don't have the power to move above average (ex. Cleveland with Kyrie).

We have draft picks with star potential: TJ, Len, Bogdan and even Archie still have a shot to become All-Stars. Our path is probably equally or more likely to net a top five team than tanking.

You're wasting your time explaining things to a few. Stars can be found all over the draft, the real problem is too many don't reach their potential until after their rookie contract is up, and some never do. Too many players leave college too early, and lack a good foundation of basketball skills. It kills me to see guards come to the NBA and can't shoot, or bigs without any correct footwork on either side of the court. And then there are some players that have great athletic ability, but dumber than a bag of hammers.

So it comes down to very good scouting, a good fit for that player on a team or a system, or overall great smarts and hard work. Overall, the draft is a crapshoot, and teams that gel enough to almost make the playoffs and mostly stick together, will improve and gel even better than a team that sucked so bad (especially if they were purposely being losers, which some here suggest) and got one potentially great player. And then what happens if that player gets injured, like many do coming into the league because the grind is so much tougher than college?

Oh well, we drafted pretty well recently, and any one of them could be better than some players that went top three.

[asudevil]

Zoran is a sg who can play some sf.... If he comes in and beats out Archie... so be it. I can see a rotation of Goran, Green starting with Thomas, zoran off the bench. We can see who developers out of Archie and Zoran, I think Zoran is slightly ahead overall right now. The Suns wanted to develope Archie as a pg anyway.... right?

Not that I know but something tells me that Archie will be gone (whether trade or free agency) before we all see his maturation. I think Archie is going to be very good but I also think he is about 3 years away from that.


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It is sad, but I have to agree. The Suns are more concerned with making the playoffs than they are the future and developing players, which doesn't bode well for Archie. Its a shame because he has a lot of potential, but I guess our front office likes bringing in ready guys like IT instead. I'm going to laugh in 4 years, when Goodwin is tearing it up somewhere, while the suns are still fighting for an 8th seed without a star.

I think this is completely false. If anything is spells the end of Green either via FA or Trade.

a.) He's in his last year of a cheap contract. IF he produces this year like he did last then he's going to command something stupid in the FA market. We already need to reup Dragic/Marcus/Markieff. Green is at the bottom of the list of guys to resign because we have a ton of young guys right behind him looking for playing time.
b.) He'll be 29 before the end of the season. We all harped about Marion losing his athleticism, which he relied upon after crossing the 30 bridge. He lost his shortly after 30. And while still being productive, he was not nearly the star he was in Phoenix. Green will cross that same bridge.
c.) we SPECIFIALLY went after Goodwin in the draft, trading to get him. We all say that Len wont be traded because he was a McD pick. Same thing with Goodwin. We knew he was raw and would take years to develop, so why change our song just a year or two later?

And of course the suns are concerned about making the playoffs, but they have done nothing to indicate that they would sacrifice developing their youth to get there. Sure they signed Thomas, but that's about it. He's an insurance policy for Bledsoe (which appears to have been a great "just in case" signing). IF the suns were truly all or nothing to the playoffs, then they would have maxed out Bledsoe the first day of FA.

McD is in it for the longhaul. We are among the youngest teams in the west, just waiting for the powerhouses to age and drop off.

[RunDogGun]

Cue the Double Dragon graphic again.....Kerrsed?

Should be fun. Zoran has played well in the tournament. I like that he plays decent defense and that he likes to run the break. Worry a little bit about his athleticism at his position.

Something like this ?

Zoran looks great, but Goran needs some work. Maybe a better angrier face.

[SideSwipe]

Cue the Double Dragon graphic again.....Kerrsed?

Should be fun. Zoran has played well in the tournament. I like that he plays decent defense and that he likes to run the break. Worry a little bit about his athleticism at his position.

Something like this ?

Nice one Vuc!

Along with what RDG said, maybe we could add some Suns game screen caps to cover the current double-dragon ones. Nice all around.

[JTrain]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0848859564f5e3f52a32331a898f780967b168a3/c=0-176-2416-1543&r=x1803&c=3200x1800/local/-/media/Phoenix/Phoenix/2014/03/29//1396144984000-323-goran.jpg

[RunDogGun]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0848859564f5e3f52a32331a898f780967b168a3/c=0-176-2416-1543&r=x1803&c=3200x1800/local/-/media/Phoenix/Phoenix/2014/03/29//1396144984000-323-goran.jpg

Perfect, just flip the image.

[JTrain]

Historically there's only one draft position that gets you a 50% chance or better of drafting an All-Star-level player: First.

Currently, if you go 0-82 (ultra-tank) you have only a 25% chance of getting that pick. It looks like the NBA may make that less in the near future.

Then you have teams that have the luck to get the top pick and draft an All-Star and still don't have the power to move above average (ex. Cleveland with Kyrie).

We have draft picks with star potential: TJ, Len, Bogdan and even Archie still have a shot to become All-Stars. Our path is probably equally or more likely to net a top five team than tanking.

You're wasting your time explaining things to a few. Stars can be found all over the draft, the real problem is too many don't reach their potential until after their rookie contract is up, and some never do. Too many players leave college too early, and lack a good foundation of basketball skills. It kills me to see guards come to the NBA and can't shoot, or bigs without any correct footwork on either side of the court. And then there are some players that have great athletic ability, but dumber than a bag of hammers.

So it comes down to very good scouting, a good fit for that player on a team or a system, or overall great smarts and hard work. Overall, the draft is a crapshoot, and teams that gel enough to almost make the playoffs and mostly stick together, will improve and gel even better than a team that sucked so bad (especially if they were purposely being losers, which some here suggest) and got one potentially great player. And then what happens if that player gets injured, like many do coming into the league because the grind is so much tougher than college?

Oh well, we drafted pretty well recently, and any one of them could be better than some players that went top three.

Hey, I'm on a message board on Friday afternoon... I'm here to waste time!

[bwgood77]

I think this spells the end for Bledsoe more than anything.

I wonder if Bledsoe can work out which team he wants to go to, then sign the QO, and get the trade done afterwards, when his salary makes him easier to deal and another team more willing to give up assets.

Zoran spells the end for Bledsoe? Zoran will not play major minutes in the nba. Personally, unless it is just to keep Dragic happy, I hope he signs elsewhere.

[King4Day]

If we do sign Zoran, I would fully expect us to deal Ennis before camp starts. No point in keeping him anymore. Get an asset for him and move on.
If we then retain Bledsoe on a long term deal, I'd expect there to be a chance PJ is traded next offseason.

Zoran has done absolutely nothing to earn time over any other Sun right now so he'll have to fight for it.
I'm sure Joe Jackson is excited about this news.

[bwgood77]

Zoran is a sg who can play some sf.... If he comes in and beats out Archie... so be it. I can see a rotation of Goran, Green starting with Thomas, zoran off the bench. We can see who developers out of Archie and Zoran, I think Zoran is slightly ahead overall right now. The Suns wanted to develope Archie as a pg anyway.... right?

Not that I know but something tells me that Archie will be gone (whether trade or free agency) before we all see his maturation. I think Archie is going to be very good but I also think he is about 3 years away from that.


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It is sad, but I have to agree. The Suns are more concerned with making the playoffs than they are the future and developing players, which doesn't bode well for Archie. Its a shame because he has a lot of potential, but I guess our front office likes bringing in ready guys like IT instead. I'm going to laugh in 4 years, when Goodwin is tearing it up somewhere, while the suns are still fighting for an 8th seed without a star.

Archie will not be gone. He has MUCH higher upside than Zoran, and McD drafted him. He's not just going to give up on such a young player with potential.