Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Sunsdeuce]

Price is serviceable. More than likely he isn't going to play more than garbage time or if a player gets hurt. I could care less about any analytical view on him because we have all seen him play so we know what we are getting.

[phrazbit]

Kobe in his prime was a prime time assassin the LeBron will never be.

Kobe's "clutchness" might be the single most overrated attribute ever attached to any player in the history of any sport.

I would take LeBron down the wire in a close game 10,000 times over Kobe and his sub 40 shooting percentage while taking every shot and ignoring all his teammates.

[Sunsdeuce]

Kobe in his prime was a prime time assassin the LeBron will never be.

Kobe's "clutchness" might be the single most overrated attribute ever attached to any player in the history of any sport.

I would take LeBron down the wire in a close game 10,000 times over Kobe and his sub 40 shooting percentage while taking every shot and ignoring all his teammates.

Not a fan of either player but I will tell you this their is a difference between being clutch and wanting the ball in clutch situations. Kobe wanted the ball in the clutch because let's be real, Kobe is the definition of ball hog/glory seeker.

Kobe is NO leader also. Leaders lead no matter the situation. When the lakers didn't have the all-stars around him (that made him better, Kobe didn't make other players better, the all-stars made him look better), Kobe punked out and quit on his team and pointed fingers at everyone else.

Kobe is a punk. Bottom line is Kobe was not clutch, he just wanted the ball in the clutch because he was a selfish glory seeker. Kobe is a smart person but he is a prick (not in a cool way).

With lebron, he is just weak minded. Lebron is clutch but doesn't like to be in the clutch. Lebron isn't a great basketball mind but his abilities (and size for his position) greatly aid him. Lebron isn't the smartest guy on the block (not someone who is capable of having a meaningful conversation about the universe or life for example) but again he is great for his position. I would say he is more clutch than Kobe.

[JTrain]

Kobe's "clutchness" might be the single most overrated attribute ever attached to any player in the history of any sport.

FIFY

http://nerdnumbers.com/2014/11/12/why-its-difficult-to-tell-steve-nash-was-much-better-than-kobe-bryant/

[tdjm]

While I'm sure it's somewhat alarming to see Keef working out with a former Pistons legend who is wearing Detroit gear...keep in mind that Rasheed is a Philadelphia basketball legend. Those city guys stick together (especially the ones with an overabundance of civic pride, not naming names).

[letsgosuns]

Do not care what anyone says about Kobe. Like I said earlier he is the best player I have ever seen in person besides Michael Jordan. I absolutely love Kobe. Represents everything I would want in a player. Same thing with Derek Jeter. I remember an interview with Jeter where he said he considered every season that his team did not win a championship a failure. I love that. Play to win.

[DirtyDez]

Kobe in his prime was a prime time assassin the LeBron will never be.

Kobe's "clutchness" might be the single most overrated attribute ever attached to any player in the history of any sport.

I would take LeBron down the wire in a close game 10,000 times over Kobe and his sub 40 shooting percentage while taking every shot and ignoring all his teammates.

Jordan was a psychopath to Bill Cartwright and Horace Grant and punched Steve Kerr in the face. Lebron quit on the Cavs in 2010 vs Boston and publicly embarrasses all of his coaches. The only perfect superstar is Tim Duncan.

[carey]

Jordan was a psychopath to Bill Cartwright and Horace Grant and punched Steve Kerr in the face. Lebron quit on the Cavs in 2010 vs Boston and publicly embarrasses all of his coaches. The only perfect superstar is Tim Duncan.

If you call not having any personality whatsoever perfect, then yes.

[starbosa10]

Jordan was a psychopath to Bill Cartwright and Horace Grant and punched Steve Kerr in the face. Lebron quit on the Cavs in 2010 vs Boston and publicly embarrasses all of his coaches. The only perfect superstar is Tim Duncan.

If you call not having any personality whatsoever perfect, then yes.

can't have personality flaws if you don't have one so technically still right haha

[NaturalBuns]

Lebron surpassed Kobe greatness like 3 years ago. He's beyond him at this point

[DirtyDez]

Jordan was a psychopath to Bill Cartwright and Horace Grant and punched Steve Kerr in the face. Lebron quit on the Cavs in 2010 vs Boston and publicly embarrasses all of his coaches. The only perfect superstar is Tim Duncan.

If you call not having any personality whatsoever perfect, then yes.

That might be the GOAT nitpick carey.

[Revived]

Keef is just showing allegiance to his brother and sticking his thumb to Suns. I love that we have Chandler to keep his ass in line when he comes back sulking.
I hope McD lets them know they can have Keef too for the price of Drummond or Stanley Johnson and their unconditional 1st round pick next year.

Yeah, I'm sure they know that is a standing offer. I hope Pistons fans don't stop by and think you are serious.

[bwgood77]

This LeBron vs Kobe stuff is nonsense. No reasonable basketball fan, GM or coach would take Kobe over LeBron ever. LeBron is a top 3 player of all time, maybe will end up best, and Kobe is maybe top 15.

[DirtyDez]

This LeBron vs Kobe stuff is nonsense. No reasonable basketball fan, GM or coach would take Kobe over LeBron ever. LeBron is a top 3 player of all time, maybe will end up best, and Kobe is maybe top 15.

Top-3 is too high. Maybe had they beaten Dallas but they lost as the far superior team. I still think Bird is the GOAT SF to this point but Lebron has plenty of years left.

[bwgood77]

This LeBron vs Kobe stuff is nonsense. No reasonable basketball fan, GM or coach would take Kobe over LeBron ever. LeBron is a top 3 player of all time, maybe will end up best, and Kobe is maybe top 15.

Top-3 is too high. Maybe had they beaten Dallas but they lost as the far superior team. I still think Bird is the GOAT SF to this point but Lebron has plenty of years left.

True...you could probably argue the top 10 all day. As far as non centers go, you only have about Jordan, Bird, Magic and LeBron.....so he is top 4 non center.

[nevetsov]

This LeBron vs Kobe stuff is nonsense. No reasonable basketball fan, GM or coach would take Kobe over LeBron ever. LeBron is a top 3 player of all time, maybe will end up best, and Kobe is maybe top 15.

I consider myself a reasonable basketball fan and I disagree with your sentiments about LeBron. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and shouldn't be labelled "unreasonable" for such. Especially on a free forum for discussion.

But not sure what business this has in a PHX offseason thread, seems more a GB thread to me. We should be talking less about LeBron vs Kobe, and more about Terrence Williams...

[letsgosuns]

Lebron is great but I do not put him on Kobe's level. Lebron is more unselfish but Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan. And Jordan destroys both of them. I laugh when people say Lebron compares with Jordan. Jeff Hornacek said himself recently that Jordan would average at least 40 points a game in today's NBA with how much less physical it is and how the rules favor the offensive player.

I also mentioned this before this but I will say it again because it is very important. Lebron plays in the Eastern Conference and always has. That conference has been incredibly poor since he entered the league. To say it is far worse than the West is an understatement. In 2007, Lebron was annihilated in the finals by the Spurs. It was a joke. Lebron has won two finals and lost three. In fact, he is lucky to have won two. If not for missed free throws in the finals by the Spurs in 2013, his record could be 1-4 in the finals.

Lebron played at a historical level this past finals and that is on everybody's mind. Is he one of the greatest players of all time already? Absolutely. But since he is playing in a historically horrible Eastern conference, he has a cakewalk to the finals every year. The Western conference champion has most likely already gone through three grueling series while Lebron plays garbage teams like this year's Celtics. The West is so much better than the East at this point it is stupid. The Suns won 48 games in the 2013-14 season and finished 9th in the West. They would have been tied for the third seed in the East. The third seed! A prime Kobe would also reach the finals five straight years if he played with Wade and Bosh in the East or the team Lebron had in Cleveland this year. No doubt in my mind. Like some posters have already mentioned earlier in this thread, Kobe has that killer instinct like an assassin. I have never seen Lebron play that way. Ever.

[starbosa10]

Lebron is great but I do not put him on Kobe's level. Lebron is more unselfish but Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan. And Jordan destroys both of them. I laugh when people say Lebron compares with Jordan. Jeff Hornacek said himself recently that Jordan would average at least 40 points a game in today's NBA with how much less physical it is and how the rules favor the offensive player.

I also mentioned this before this but I will say it again because it is very important. Lebron plays in the Eastern Conference and always has. That conference has been incredibly poor since he entered the league. To say it is far worse than the West is an understatement. In 2007, Lebron was annihilated in the finals by the Spurs. It was a joke. Lebron has won two finals and lost three. In fact, he is lucky to have won two. If not for missed free throws in the finals by the Spurs in 2013, his record could be 1-4 in the finals.

Lebron played at a historical level this past finals and that is on everybody's mind. Is he one of the greatest players of all time already? Absolutely. But since he is playing in a historically horrible Eastern conference, he has a cakewalk to the finals every year. The Western conference champion has most likely already gone through three grueling series while Lebron plays garbage teams like this year's Celtics. The West is so much better than the East at this point it is stupid. The Suns won 48 games in the 2013-14 season and finished 9th in the West. They would have been tied for the third seed in the East. The third seed! A prime Kobe would also reach the finals five straight years if he played with Wade and Bosh in the East or the team Lebron had in Cleveland this year. No doubt in my mind. Like some posters have already mentioned earlier in this thread, Kobe has that killer instinct like an assassin. I have never seen Lebron play that way. Ever.

so basically jordan > everyone else. not much else to argue

[letsgosuns]

Lebron is great but I do not put him on Kobe's level. Lebron is more unselfish but Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan. And Jordan destroys both of them. I laugh when people say Lebron compares with Jordan. Jeff Hornacek said himself recently that Jordan would average at least 40 points a game in today's NBA with how much less physical it is and how the rules favor the offensive player.

I also mentioned this before this but I will say it again because it is very important. Lebron plays in the Eastern Conference and always has. That conference has been incredibly poor since he entered the league. To say it is far worse than the West is an understatement. In 2007, Lebron was annihilated in the finals by the Spurs. It was a joke. Lebron has won two finals and lost three. In fact, he is lucky to have won two. If not for missed free throws in the finals by the Spurs in 2013, his record could be 1-4 in the finals.

Lebron played at a historical level this past finals and that is on everybody's mind. Is he one of the greatest players of all time already? Absolutely. But since he is playing in a historically horrible Eastern conference, he has a cakewalk to the finals every year. The Western conference champion has most likely already gone through three grueling series while Lebron plays garbage teams like this year's Celtics. The West is so much better than the East at this point it is stupid. The Suns won 48 games in the 2013-14 season and finished 9th in the West. They would have been tied for the third seed in the East. The third seed! A prime Kobe would also reach the finals five straight years if he played with Wade and Bosh in the East or the team Lebron had in Cleveland this year. No doubt in my mind. Like some posters have already mentioned earlier in this thread, Kobe has that killer instinct like an assassin. I have never seen Lebron play that way. Ever.

so basically jordan > everyone else. not much else to argue

That is exactly how I feel. When it comes to Kobe versus Lebron, some people like Kobe better while some people like Lebron better. I like Kobe better. That is just my personal opinion. Not saying I am right but I would choose Kobe in his prime over Lebron in his prime.

[3rdside]

Kobe in his prime was a prime time assassin the LeBron will never be.

Kobe's "clutchness" might be the single most overrated attribute ever attached to any player in the history of any sport.

I would take LeBron down the wire in a close game 10,000 times over Kobe and his sub 40 shooting percentage while taking every shot and ignoring all his teammates.

I'd take kobe's five rings vs lebron's two (or nash's zero) but that's just me. Definitely not saying you're wrong - and jtrain's article is very insightful - but I (or realistically somebody who has time) would need to watch all playoff series' game tapes to to actually determine if he's clutch, as season FG% doesn't mean a great deal (relatively speaking) when in an elimination battle.

This reminds be of the big-shot bob argument - that he actually wasn't (elindholm the lead on that one at ASFN; I don't think I ever saw conclusive evidence that he wasn't but might be mistaken there).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk