Trade Deadline Countdown....January 2016

[thamadkant]

Knicks would be interested on a PG...
Knight, Jennings etc.

But they have nothing to trade for Knight that they are willing to... Jennings maybe.

[AtheJ415]

The Raptors too with their desire to get a 4 and vets and offload picks. I'd be asking them about all our vets. They have no use for Tyson, but I could see them valuing Kieff, Tucker, Price, and Tele.

[thamadkant]

Chandler for David Lee and a pick (maybe a lottery protected first or 2nd rounds) makes sense for both teams IMO

[AtheJ415]

Knicks would be interested on a PG...
Knight, Jennings etc.

But they have nothing to trade for Knight that they are willing to... Jennings maybe.

A 3 team with Markieff going to Detroit, Jennings to NYK, and something to Phoenix makes some sense to me, but who comes back? I guess a flier on Williams might make sense, but I'd rather have Jones if that deal was available.

Maybe the Knicks would be willing to trade a very far in the future pick? Like 2018?

[bwgood77]

I agree, although if I was the GM and I couldn't get an offer for anything positive for Tyson, and I had the opportunity to just clear Tyson for cap space at the deadline, I'd probably take it. It would be a tough call. It's not a crippling contract, but I'm not sure I'd gamble on it given just how bad he's been here, because his age still makes it a tougher bet that he'll be the, or a, target for a team missing out on a center.

Kieff is just a weird scenario. I'm not sure what the right thing to do with him is, because it's really hard to say what kind of offers are out there.

I think the Rockets still make the most sense for Kieff. And their willingness to move Ariza is interesting, because it probably opens up more 3 team possibilities since I could easily see some teams out there wanting him compared to Brewer.

Yeah, if I could just clear him for an expiring, I'd probably pull the trigger. I just wouldn't give up assets to get rid of him unless you need the cap space.

[bwgood77]

The Raptors too with their desire to get a 4 and vets and offload picks. I'd be asking them about all our vets. They have no use for Tyson, but I could see them valuing Kieff, Tucker, Price, and Tele.

Did you read Zach Lowe's article about the Raptors and how they should trade for Kieff (though he said as long as they don't have to send out a first). I've been meaning to post that in our column thread. Some good stuff and funny stuff there.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I would be a little surprised if we traded Knight, unless we had just a great offer on the table..like Brooklyn desperate to compete and without a PG, tanking does them no good, they offered up something nice (not sure what it could be)...was going to say RHJ, who is injured I think, and I like, but I don't know if his fit is great, unless we just wanted a defensive 3/4 for depth...

But the reason I'd be surprised with a Knight trade is that McD would look awfully stupid across the league for trading that pick and Ennis for Knight, only to trade him so quickly, so it seems the deal would have to be a pretty good one.

I don't think many would have even wanted to trade the Lakers pick and Ennis for RHJ. But, what just occurred to me, is that maybe Jarrett Jack, also injured could be the target, along with say, RHJ.

I don't know their contracts, so probably more would need to be included, but would you trade Knight and the Cleveland pick for Jarrett Jack and RHJ? I guess we could throw in Markieff as well, as they could use all the help they could get. Probably way too much salary going out. We could take JJ back and throw more in. Don't know if they'd want Tyson, but Lopez is injury prone. I wonder if all those salaries would match up. I'd be fine trading those out, bringing back Jack as that backup pg, along with RHJ, even if it cost us a pick. Brooklyn desperately needs picks.

OK, I looked a little bit closer at this, and Brooklyn makes a ton of sense for Knight, and we could take Jack back which would make sense for us as a backup pg, move Booker to starter, have Jack/Bogdan backup backcourt next year.

The problem is, we need to add $7million more, and all they have is small contracts outside of Johnson, Lopez and Young

I also looked at a Kieff/Chandler/Knight for Johnson/Jack, which matches up closely in salaries, but they already have a lot invested in Lopez and Young for the next 4 years as their two highest paid players, so adding Chandler/Kieff doesn't make a ton of sense, but if they figure they are set with Knight at pg, and can run with RHJ and Bogdanovic and some of their others at the 2/3, maybe they don't mind all that frontcourt salary and depth.

[shakendfries]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

[bwgood77]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

I think some would like that, but there are a few problems with that. We would have way too many centers, and would need to get rid of Chandler as well, and we need a pg. I think we are too attached to Bledsoe to move him and wouldn't want to trade a high pick for that. Swap in Knight instead of Bledsoe, and add Chandler (means Johnson needs to be in there and more salary coming back like Jack) and it might at least be more plausible to most on this board and the GM. But it would be tough for us to trade away a pick in a down year. Maybe top 5 protected for a couple years, and could maybe add the Cleveland pick.

What would you do at center for that deal?

I think that sounds a little more like a Sarver type move which would probably make us better this year, but would set us back in our rebuilding. I don't think many here want Knight as our sole pg either. Calipari also had Goodwin, so maybe send him out too.

[LukasBMW]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

So you want Bledsoe and our lottery pick this year for Thad and Brook?

LOL.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Tank Rank:

Uncatchable
1. Philadelphia 2. Lakers

Slight Underdogs To
3. Minnesota 4.Brooklyn

Us
5. Phoenix

Other Threats
6. Denver 7. New Orleans

It looks like a clear top 2 draft - Simmons and Ingram, hopefully we get some luck.

[Mulhollanddrive]

In other news LA are 2 games away from 3rd worst, which means a 55% chance of giving away pick 4 or 5.

Brooklyn are giving away their likely top 5 pick as well.

No coincidence Boston and 76ers who have meticulously managed their rebuild are in a good position.

[shakendfries]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

I think some would like that, but there are a few problems with that. We would have way too many centers, and would need to get rid of Chandler as well, and we need a pg. I think we are too attached to Bledsoe to move him and wouldn't want to trade a high pick for that. Swap in Knight instead of Bledsoe, and add Chandler (means Johnson needs to be in there and more salary coming back like Jack) and it might at least be more plausible to most on this board and the GM. But it would be tough for us to trade away a pick in a down year. Maybe top 5 protected for a couple years, and could maybe add the Cleveland pick.

What would you do at center for that deal?

I think that sounds a little more like a Sarver type move which would probably make us better this year, but would set us back in our rebuilding. I don't think many here want Knight as our sole pg either. Calipari also had Goodwin, so maybe send him out too.

This deal would allow the Nets to go all in for Calipari. The idea would be to position the Nets over the course of the next 3 seasons to build a better core and pursue Demarcus Cousins in free agency. The Nets would try to flip Morris to Boston for their 2017 pick swap back. This would allow the Nets to properly rebuild or "tank" next season with their own lottery pick, while making a push for a former Cal player like Nerleans Noel in RFA next summer. Center this season is irrelevant- the Nets have Willie Reed and Andrea Bargnani (defense/offense) and they'd be conceding a lottery pick to the Celtics, with or without Lopez + Thad.

Knight is also a former Cal player, so I don't think Cal on the Nets would mind him instead, but wouldn't you guys prefer to bet on the development of a relatively healthy and young Knight + Booker? I think in this instance the Suns would be better off keeping Chandler (Brook is really good offensively but struggles defensively), but there's no reason he can't be flipped for a good backup PG (we'd love to offer help there, but Jarrett Jack went down).

[Mulhollanddrive]

Just read Toronto might want ready made players and could exchange their lesser of Denver or NY 2016 pick.

[AtheJ415]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

I'd hate this trade for the Suns in just about every conceivable fashion.

Our front court is not the problem it appears to be given the names we have playing there. Mirza and Leuer are damn good this year. The real problem has been Chandler's disgustingly awful play and Hornacek's insistence on starting him despite being the worst defensive player on the team and getting just shalacked by Len across the board numbers wise. If I compare Brook, Thad, Bledsoe, Leuer, and Tele, Bledsoe is the youngest and easily the best player of the group. Brook is close behind in VORP, but worse in WS/minute (and probably VORP/minute given that) than Mirza and only slightly ahead of Leuer. Young is easily the worst in terms of advanced stats of the Suns remaining PF's in that scenario, with Leuer being the youngest.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like both Brook and Thad, but PF is not the problem spot on this team that people paint, and the real thing we need at center as a rebuilding team is a guy to backup Len who is young with upside also or a vet on a really small deal who has a lot of knowledge to transfer.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=youngth01&y2=2016&p2=leuerjo01&y3=2016&p3=teletmi01&y4=2016&p4=lopezbr01&y5=2016&p5=bledser01&p6=

So, essentially we'd be replacing our 3rd string PF for another 3rd string PF in terms of productivity, or even worse a guy who is not putting up numbers that are as efficient but would play ahead of both anyways, who is more expensive, and then we'd get a center to add to a team that would still need to dump Tyson Chandler and knowing Hornacek, that means we're now benching Len until that happens. So we add a ton of salary, still aren't good enough to win a title and probably not even enough to make the playoffs, add 2 offensive guys when what we need out of our bigs is defense since we already have Knight, Bledsoe, and Warren 1-3 in this scenario, and bench our most promising big man prospect in the process.

Finally, we're throwing away arguably the top asset to a rebuilding team of everyone involved here in the pick, on top of the youngest and best player in the trade in Bledsoe. I get that Kieff is a bad egg, but his contract simply isn't that bad.

If we're going to move Bledsoe, it would be to rebuild and get even younger. I don't see Thad as a fit. I think most here would rather have Rondae than that and throw PJ in the mix.

[AtheJ415]

Tank Rank:

Uncatchable
1. Philadelphia 2. Lakers

Slight Underdogs To
3. Minnesota 4.Brooklyn

Us
5. Phoenix

Other Threats
6. Denver 7. New Orleans

It looks like a clear top 2 draft - Simmons and Ingram, hopefully we get some luck.

We'd just need to hope LA and Brooklyn get better. Supposably they are trying to be buyers at the deadline.

Let's hope that's true, and that we sell.

[LukasBMW]

Just a thought, if we had kept the Laker pick, and it was top 3, we wouldn't get it.

That means no Ingram and no Simmons.

But if we can somehow trade Brandon Knight or a package around Brandon Knight for an unprotected pick projected to be in the 4-8 range and have some luck...

It's almost better then having the Laker pick. LOL.

[LukasBMW]

Trading Keef to Brooklyn helps them get better. If only we can figure out a way to get a pick back. No one on Brooklyn appeals to me.

Hell, I'll throw them other players too as long as we get picks back. Get em out of our way! LOL.

[shakendfries]

I think if the Nets are truly interested in offering Calipari a coaching position, they'd be interested in either Bledsoe or Knight. However, given their draft pick scenario, a larger deal involving your lottery pick would be the most appealing. Any interest in the following?

BKN PHX
Brook + Thad for Bledsoe + Morris + Goodwin + 2016 top 3 protected

-Brook + Thad are one of the highest scoring frontcourts in the NBA. This deal would be a massive frontcourt upgrade for the Suns at the expense of Bledsoe + Morris and their 2016 pick (top 3 protected). I'm not sure if the numbers work out, but does this intrigue anyone?

I'd hate this trade for the Suns in just about every conceivable fashion.

Our front court is not the problem it appears to be given the names we have playing there. Mirza and Leuer are damn good this year. The real problem has been Chandler's disgustingly awful play and Hornacek's insistence on starting him despite being the worst defensive player on the team and getting just shalacked by Len across the board numbers wise. If I compare Brook, Thad, Bledsoe, Leuer, and Tele, Bledsoe is the youngest and easily the best player of the group. Brook is close behind in VORP, but worse in WS/minute (and probably VORP/minute given that) than Mirza and only slightly ahead of Leuer. Young is easily the worst in terms of advanced stats of the Suns remaining PF's in that scenario, with Leuer being the youngest.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like both Brook and Thad, but PF is not the problem spot on this team that people paint, and the real thing we need at center as a rebuilding team is a guy to backup Len who is young with upside also or a vet on a really small deal who has a lot of knowledge to transfer.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=youngth01&y2=2016&p2=leuerjo01&y3=2016&p3=teletmi01&y4=2016&p4=lopezbr01&y5=2016&p5=bledser01&p6=

So, essentially we'd be replacing our 3rd string PF for another 3rd string PF in terms of productivity, or even worse a guy who is not putting up numbers that are as efficient but would play ahead of both anyways, who is more expensive, and then we'd get a center to add to a team that would still need to dump Tyson Chandler and knowing Hornacek, that means we're now benching Len until that happens. So we add a ton of salary, still aren't good enough to win a title and probably not even enough to make the playoffs, add 2 offensive guys when what we need out of our bigs is defense since we already have Knight, Bledsoe, and Warren 1-3 in this scenario, and bench our most promising big man prospect in the process.

Finally, we're throwing away arguably the top asset to a rebuilding team of everyone involved here in the pick, on top of the youngest and best player in the trade in Bledsoe. I get that Kieff is a bad egg, but his contract simply isn't that bad.

If we're going to move Bledsoe, it would be to rebuild and get even younger. I don't see Thad as a fit. I think most here would rather have Rondae than that and throw PJ in the mix.

Much respect, but I think you're looking at the numbers too hard. The stats that you're looking at don't capture how good Thad actually is. He's a guaranteed double double who doesn't need offense run for him to succeed. He's a starter next to Brook, and is one of the most underrated players in the league- but don't just take my word for it,

Through the first 25 games of the season, the Nets’ starting small forward is averaging 15.7 points, 8.9 rebounds and 1.4 steals per game while shooting an efficient 51.9 percent from the floor. As a career 31.9 percent shooter from three-point territory, it’s probably for the best that Young has only attempted 12 on the season (making just one). His status as a 6’8″ power forward makes him something of a tweener, and that lack of a three-point shot does him no favors in that regard, but Young has found a way to compensate for those shortcomings in his game.

For one thing, he’s a fairly efficient midrange shooter, especially when facing the basket straight on:


There’s a lot of red on that shot chart, but don’t be fooled: most of those areas of the floor are shots that Young rarely takes. An overwhelming 70.9 percent of his shots come from right around the basket, where he’s converting at an above-league-average rate of 56.5 percent.

Then there’s his uptick in rebounding. For most of his time in Philly, Young vacillated between the forward positions depending on who was on the floor, and he never averaged more than 7.5 rebounds per game. In a more stable and consistent role in Brooklyn, he’s pulling down a career high 8.9 boards per game.

He’s got 12 double-doubles on the season, including five in the team’s eight December games. He’s second on the team in scoring, first in rebounding, first in steals, first in field goal percentage among regular rotation players, and first in murdered Ersan Ilyasova

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rymByjkZ_as[/youtube]

Thad and Brook's numbers suffer because, well, they're virtually the only NBA players on the Nets roster right now. The Nets are literally the worst 3pt shooting team in the league (Steph Curry has more made 3s this season than the entire roster combined...yeah) so teams tend to pack the paint and focus on stopping the two. But the duo has been dominant. The Brook + Thad frontcourt is second in scoring only to Deandre + Blake in LA.

Lopez's injury limited his experience playing next to Mirza, but Mirza makes up for Thad's shortcomings from beyond the arc. The Nets frontcourt is 2nd in scoring in the paint right now which is statistically a lot better than whatever you've got going on right now. Unless the Suns come up on a competitive and complete frontcourt in the draft or find some young buck eager to play with Tyson free agency, this is more than a reasonable offer.

The Nets main interest in the deal would be Bledsoe + the lottery pick. Morris and Goodwin would help match salaries.

[asudevil]

Spoiler:

But three teams stand alone in a multi-city trend that has exposed the curse of unexpected success followed by utter failure: The Phoenix Suns, Milwaukee Bucks and New Orleans Pelicans.

It's a tire fire in Phoenix, where the Suns fell for the elixir of an unexpected 48-win season in 2013-14, went for it with a series of moves that deviated from their original rebuilding plan and now find themselves in a state of chaos. In 2013, the Suns traded veterans Jared Dudley, Luis Scola and Marcin Gortat for a collection of young players and draft picks, a tried-and-true strategy for rebuilding. But lo and behold, Phoenix nearly won 50 games and narrowly missed the playoffs.

The organization's posture changed, and its undoing was two-fold, according to rival executives: 1) Signing 33-year-old Tyson Chandler to a four-year, $52 million deal on the belief that the move would entice free agent LaMarcus Aldridge to sign (spoiler alert, it didn't); and 2) Underestimating Markieff Morris' reaction to his twin brother being traded to Detroit.

Chandler showing up for the Suns' free-agent pitch meeting with Aldridge was great theater. "We walked in and we had no idea what he was doing there," a person who attended the meeting told CBS Sports. "And then they said, 'He's with us now.'" The only problem with this bold plan was that it didn't work. Now with Chandler once again struggling to stay healthy and Morris having diminished any leverage the Suns had to trade him, the Suns are stuck. The shakeup on the coaching staff didn't help, and coach Jeff Hornacek still doesn't have any security beyond this season.

"We are looking at a number of things between now and the trade deadline," GM Ryan McDonough said on Phoenix radio. "We obviously need to make some changes."

As the Suns have learned, sometimes the moves that you have to make to undo mistakes are more costly than the mistakes themselves.

Milwaukee Bucks

Milwaukee won 15 games in 2013-14, landed Jabari Parker with the No. 2 overall pick and wound up with Jason Kidd roaming the sidelines after Kidd lost a bid for complete control in Brooklyn -- but won a better job with better pay in a better situation. The Bucks landed Jared Dudley, Michael Carter-Williams and Miles Plumlee in trades, won 41 games and made the playoffs. Then came the big coup: signing free agent Greg Monroe. All of it bought the Bucks a ticket back to the bottom, where they're mucking around with a 15-24 record and wondering what went wrong.

According to one rival executive, here's part of it: With a revamped roster and a new coach with new systems last season, the Bucks won a lot of games with the surprise factor. Opponents were expecting to see the 15-win team from the year before and needed time to catch up in the scouting department. Well, they've caught up. The Bucks are 23rd in offensive rating and 29th in defensive rating, another tale of a team taking two steps back after one big step forward.

New Orleans Pelicans

This is the most puzzling example of a team supposedly on the rise bottoming out. The Pelicans increased their win total for three straight years under Monty Williams, topping out at 45 last season and a playoff berth. With rising star Anthony Davis, New Orleans seemed to be on the path to joining the powers in the Western Conference.

But the franchise dumped Williams and hired former Golden State offensive assistant Alvin Gentry, a move that I thought would 1) help the Pelicans, and 2) hurt the Warriors. (Wrong, on both counts.) New Orleans has fallen from ninth in offensive efficiency last season to 18th, and their defense has deteriorated, too -- from ninth-worst last season to third-worst. It's all baked into their 11-25 record, only a few games better than the Lakers, who have admitted that they're intentionally wasting the entire season to honor Kobe Bryant.

Is it injuries? Yes, to be fair, injuries have been a factor. But they were a factor last season under Williams, and the team persevered. According to Basketball-Reference.com, the Pelicans were a combined 55-46 in games missed by Jrue Holiday (25-17), Ryan Anderson (12-9), Eric Gordon (10-11), Tyreke Evans (2-1) and Davis (6-8) -- including four straight wins without the Brow in the February-March playoff push.

Saints GM Mickey Loomis has taken on a greater personnel role above GM Dell Demps, but rival execs understand that move is only temporary. "Mickey is a football guy, not a basketball guy," one exec said. And at the D-League Showcase, the buzz was getting louder that it's only a matter of time before former Pistons executive Joe Dumars -- who has a close relationship with Saints and Pelicans owner Tom Benson -- returns to his native Louisiana to assume control.

That's usually how it works. When someone is assuming control in the NBA, he usually has a mess on his hands.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25445439/with-trade-deadline-approaching-there-are-many-ways-to-become-a-seller

I had created a post that mirrored what happened to that 2013/14 suns team, and how they overachieved...which was a curse in disguise. If you look at this team now comparing it to how the 13/14 team was constructed, you have two conclusions to draw. a.) the 13/14 team overachieved crazy style b.) 15/16 took a dump. Just compare the two.

Dragic/Smith
Bledsoe/Green/Goodwin
vs.
Knight/Price
Bledsoe/Booker/Goodwin

This is a talent vs. talent. No reason one should outperform the other. Dragic vs. Knight today...many would prefer Knight, and Booker vs. Green is a net win for us.

Tucker/Marcus
Markieff/Frye
vs.
Tucker/Warren
Leuer/Tele

Warren is a clear upgrade vs Marcus. You could make a legit argument that Markieff two years ago is better than Leuer, but is it really a difference maker?

Len/Plumlee
vs.
Len/Chandler

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who'd prefer Plumlee vs. Chandler. At the price...sure: but if you compare performance ONLY, Chandler wins.

There are two things i want to compare. a.) current talent vs. 13/14 talent. b.) our current talent vs. previous talent currently on other teams. IF we had kept 13/14 roster together right now, would you really expect them to be doing any better than the roster we have right now. Look at the production of Dragic/Green/Marcus/Frye/Plumlee/Markieff now vs what we have in Knight/Booker/Warren/Tele/Leuer/Chandler. Is it really THAT much different?

We overachieved for one year, and it messed us up. IMO talent-wise, that team should have been a lotto team, but wasnt....and now we are paying for it.

Just my two cents.