Trade & Free Agency Ideas & Discussion 2

[bwgood77]

Len is sooooo underrated here. He is one of the best rim protecting bigs his age and under in the league. If he gets a huge offer I get moving on from him, but he is not somebody we should just move on from. His upside is still there and I think he can thrive in a more simplified role. For whatever reason, in the games when Tyson plays his numbers are awful. In the games when Tyson sat he broke out a bit.

Len doesn't do anything at a high level to earn starter dollars. Not a facilitator out of the high post. Not a great target on the pick-n-roll because his hands suck. Not an elite rebounder or rim protector. It does not make sense to give him money in a simplified role. Williams is shown that he is an elite rebounder and is a better defender than Len. He is a significantly better pick-n-roll target and has a great touch around the basket. I believe he is a much better passer too. If the choice is between Williams and Len it is a no brainer.

Len is a pretty elite rebounder and shot blocker for his age if you take the time to look at the numbers. Williams shouldn't be let go just for locker room and chemistry purposes.

While I don't know if the FO wants to keep Len, I think they should if it's reasonable. We should be able to keep both on extremely reasonable contracts.

[TeamTragic]

So i think we might have been a part of the 5 team MEGA DEAL that was cancelled at the last minute.

do you have details

can you at least say it would have been good for suns or what there part was

I dont have details.

ESPN is reporting on a 5 team trade that almost happened and would have landed PG13 and Melo in Cleveland. There is a lot of speculation that Denver was also involved:

“We were very far along in one,” trade discussion, said Tim Connelly, the Nuggets’ director of basketball operations. “We thought it was done. At the 11th hour, one of the teams involved had a change of heart. While we had countless conversations, there was one in particular we thought was going to take place. It’s never a deal until you have a handshake and a deal and it never got to that point.”

Tim Connelly the Nuggets GM was visibly pissed just before and after the draft, and has said that they thought a deal was done and a team pulled out at the very last minute. From all appearances and the rumors out there it sounds like it was likely part of this deal and the rumor is now out that the that the team who was getting Love did not like the medicals and pulled out.

So we have Cleveland, New York, Indiana, and Denver. The last team is a mystery so far, but with the trade talk about us being involved as possibly a 3rd team in the PG13 to Cleveland and us being linked to Denver with Bledsoe, im guessing that last team (and the one who pulled out) was us.

Im thinking we would have ended up with Love and Mudiay while giving up Bledsoe and possibly the #4. Im also thinking there would have been maybe another player or two coming and going, but who knows yet.

Reports on general board of 4 or 5 team traded that was nixed last minute. From what everyone gathers due to the Denver/ Bledsoe rumors the Suns would have given Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick next year. It's believed either the Suns pulled out because of Loves medical records or Indy because they realized they could do a extend and trade and get a better George deal.

A. We finally wised up after everyone absolutely hated the rumored Love trade. I think McD saw everyone here pissed about mortgaging our future for the most overrated player in this league.

B. There was a darkhorse team involved and then we approached Denver about trading Bledsoe. I don't think we had any interest in Love unless it was going to be a steal.

Good work guys. Do not want Love for Bledsoe/Warren/Miami pick. **** off Lebron.

[BobbieL]

The Center position is definetly the next big thing for Ryan McD to answer. Len might get something like Myers Leonard (40/4) -which I would probably feel okay with - 25/3, 34/4, something in that range, would feel very good about.

Its a tough call as Len is there defensively but offensively, he creates more bad than good. Whereas Chandler basically sets screens or gets dunks so he is less likely to turn it over. If Len were to show some improvement, he is the person to keep.

I go either way on this one . What to do with Knight though

[TeamTragic]

The Center position is definetly the next big thing for Ryan McD to answer. Len might get something like Myers Leonard (40/4) -which I would probably feel okay with - 25/3, 34/4, something in that range, would feel very good about.

Its a tough call as Len is there defensively but offensively, he creates more bad than good. Whereas Chandler basically sets screens or gets dunks so he is less likely to turn it over. If Len were to show some improvement, he is the person to keep.

I go either way on this one. What to do with Knight though

PRESENT
- S&T Len
- Keep Williams

FUTURE
- Trade Chandler/Dudley (expiring contracts)
- Trade Knight by offering pick(s)

Multiple teams that can absorb his salary. Maybe the Nets/Knicks/etc.

[BobbieL]

The Center position is definetly the next big thing for Ryan McD to answer. Len might get something like Myers Leonard (40/4) -which I would probably feel okay with - 25/3, 34/4, something in that range, would feel very good about.

Its a tough call as Len is there defensively but offensively, he creates more bad than good. Whereas Chandler basically sets screens or gets dunks so he is less likely to turn it over. If Len were to show some improvement, he is the person to keep.

I go either way on this one. What to do with Knight though

I think we definitely S&T Len. Trade Chandler/Dudley as expiring contracts next season. Knight can only be traded with a pick or two.

I think there will be multiple teams that can absorb his salary. Maybe the Nets/Knicks/etc.

If its determined that Len is not the long term answer and Ryan wants to ride out Tyson these last two years - at worst he is off the books in 2019 - I am fine with that. This team will be lead by Booker, Chriss, Bender, Jackson - and heck, even Bledsoe before Alex Len or Tyson Chandler.

I don't think Millsap or Griffin make sense from the long term dollar perspective as after year 2 - that's when Booker kicks in, Bledsoe, the next year, Chriss and Bender. I know I have been promoting Aldridge for Dudley - but that's only because if Ryan truly wants a PF type - his contract expires in two years. And again, even 10m of cap savings might not even help the SPurs. They can trade Danny Green and get the same 10m dollars.

One guy to look at for a veteran guard - if so inclined, the Rockets might want CP3 and they need to move salary - Beverly for the non guaranteed after July 3 Barbosa would give them cap space if the Suns wanted a veteran type guard. Granted, the question of Brandon Knight.

[TeamTragic]

The Center position is definetly the next big thing for Ryan McD to answer. Len might get something like Myers Leonard (40/4) -which I would probably feel okay with - 25/3, 34/4, something in that range, would feel very good about.

Its a tough call as Len is there defensively but offensively, he creates more bad than good. Whereas Chandler basically sets screens or gets dunks so he is less likely to turn it over. If Len were to show some improvement, he is the person to keep.

I go either way on this one. What to do with Knight though

PRESENT
- S&T Len
- Keep Williams

FUTURE
- Trade Chandler/Dudley (expiring contracts)
- Trade Knight by offering pick(s)

If its determined that Len is not the long term answer and Ryan wants to ride out Tyson these last two years - at worst he is off the books in 2019 - I am fine with that. This team will be lead by Booker, Chriss, Bender, Jackson - and heck, even Bledsoe before Alex Len or Tyson Chandler.

I don't think Millsap or Griffin make sense from the long term dollar perspective as after year 2 - that's when Booker kicks in, Bledsoe, the next year, Chriss and Bender. I know I have been promoting Aldridge for Dudley - but that's only because if Ryan truly wants a PF type - his contract expires in two years. And again, even 10m of cap savings might not even help the SPurs. They can trade Danny Green and get the same 10m dollars.

One guy to look at for a veteran guard - if so inclined, the Rockets might want CP3 and they need to move salary - Beverly for the non guaranteed after July 3 Barbosa would give them cap space if the Suns wanted a veteran type guard. Granted, the question of Brandon Knight.

Do you think we can send them Knight/picks for Beverly/filler?

[jredsaz]

I seriously don't think the front office will go after Blake Griffin. Firstly, I think they love Chriss and Bender and Watson raves about Chriss and I think they want to give them as many minutes and have them on the floor as much as possible. I think McD even just said this.

Secondly, I think they like having Booker be the face of the franchise and main guy. He is marketable. And while Blake Griffin is very marketable, he immediately becomes, by default, the face of the franchise, particularly for the casual fans who will begin to take interest. While in the past I think Sarver would have wanted this, and I think he may still decide on that course, it feels like he is high on Booker being the guy.

He has also been extremely injury prone the last couple of seasons and with his dunking game he probably sooner than later goes the way of Amare. And while he is a great passer and midrange shooter, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to sign him if we want this team to grow and get better and maximize the guys' potential that we endured bad season of to draft.

As for Bledsoe, if Lowry bolts, I wonder if Toronto will show interest. Not sure what they could offer that we'd want other than maybe Joseph, Powell and a first.

I just don't understand the option of its Griffin or Chriss and Bender. They are perfect guys to play along side Blake.

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Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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[BobbieL]

PRESENT
- S&T Len
- Keep Williams

FUTURE
- Trade Chandler/Dudley (expiring contracts)
- Trade Knight by offering pick(s)

If its determined that Len is not the long term answer and Ryan wants to ride out Tyson these last two years - at worst he is off the books in 2019 - I am fine with that. This team will be lead by Booker, Chriss, Bender, Jackson - and heck, even Bledsoe before Alex Len or Tyson Chandler.

I don't think Millsap or Griffin make sense from the long term dollar perspective as after year 2 - that's when Booker kicks in, Bledsoe, the next year, Chriss and Bender. I know I have been promoting Aldridge for Dudley - but that's only because if Ryan truly wants a PF type - his contract expires in two years. And again, even 10m of cap savings might not even help the SPurs. They can trade Danny Green and get the same 10m dollars.

One guy to look at for a veteran guard - if so inclined, the Rockets might want CP3 and they need to move salary - Beverly for the non guaranteed after July 3 Barbosa would give them cap space if the Suns wanted a veteran type guard. Granted, the question of Brandon Knight.

Do you think we can send them Knight/picks for Beverly/filler?

No, because they are trying to offload deals and not take on salary. Barbosa if waived by July 3 - so would have to be this week and I am not sure if deals are stopped by the NBA this week - but if say the Rockets traded Beverly for Barbosa. Beverly makes 6m, Barbosa makes 4, of which only 500k is guaranteed. I think that would save the Rockets 6m of cap space. Plus Beverly does not have a guaranteed contract after next year so for the Suns, its basically moving from Barbosa to Beverly for one year.

The guy the really want to move is Ryan Anderson - but I am not sure there is a taker for that deal. And I don't want it to be the Suns - even for Brandon Knight - its a horrible contract

[TeamTragic]

I just don't understand the option of its Griffin or Chriss and Bender. They are perfect guys to play along side Blake.

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Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I would love to see Griffin on this team. Do you think he is worth a massive contract?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Kevin Love fits in worse than Eric Bledsoe.

If that was the trade I'd rather that not have happened.

[BobbieL]

Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I would love to see Griffin on this team. Do you think he is worth a massive contract?

The biggest problem I have with the Griffin contract is that it would cross over Booker, Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender on their second deals. No doubt, if healthy, he would be a very good player to go

The question is - how would the Suns work the cap? Per Spotrac, Suns are 6.4m under the cap with cap holds for Len, Jackson and Williams. If you take out the Len cap hold 12m, that would be about 18m of cap space. Barbosa, sorry LB (get waived and go sign with the SPurs for cheap) would be another 3.5m I do believe. So that puts it at 21m or so Clippers are losing Reddick , possibly Paul so would a S&T with Knight, Dudley (sorry Jared, going back to Cali), Warren and a future first get it done. Will not need Warren if you have Blake Griffin. Clippers lose Paul, Reddick, and Griffin - they might need some players like Knight, Warren. Granted the Celtics have oodles of cap space and can make the same trades. But it seems they want PG and Hayward. Miami - they need to dump the Bosh contract to do anything - have it go insured to recoup cap space

I think the Suns could swing it.

[jredsaz]

The best news being we have our pick next season. Play the young guys from the start and just develop them. No need to destroy cap space on Millsap/etc.

Yeah, this was posted earlier and I said "Thank God" as well, so I probably shouldn't waste time arguing against signing Blake or Millsap or trading for Aldridge.

And I am not reading into this report what you are. I do believe that McD has no intention of signing a big name like Milsap.

Griffin is not a big name like Milsap. Dude is a superstar. National TV spots. Huge exposure for any team that lands him. As recently as 2015 Griffin had the 10th highest selling jersey in the NBA. Every team in the NBA with the cap space to sign him (or the opportunity to clear the space to sign him) calls his agent on July 1.

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[bwgood77]

I just don't understand the option of its Griffin or Chriss and Bender. They are perfect guys to play along side Blake.

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Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I don't know that Chriss projects as a good defender and neither Chriss or Bender are ready to guard the best frontcourt guy yet, particularly traditional centers.

[AtheJ415]

I can't believe in the Warriors and super team era we have fans pining for this particular team to get Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and Ricky Rubio. Guys, this team is so not ready for that. The net effects of adding them are all negative except for wins this season. It goes against every long-term goal. Now is not the team to short-circuit the rebuild and cut corners.

I don't think signing Griffin puts us in championship contention. However, your contention that winning - while not being a legit contender - is witbout merit is silly on a variety of levels.

It's good for development. It's good for the fan base. It's good for business.

If you can't sign a Griffin level player than don't make a Milsap signing just to get butts in the seats. But I find it hilarious that you and others are so against adding a 5 time all star or a perennial All NBA point guard while we have the cap flexibility to do so.

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Winning being the key to all of these things is silly on all levels. You can accomplish all 3 while not winning. In fact, actually playing the youngsters is much more important to development than having them sit there watching Paul Milsap and Tyson on the court. Furthermore, it appeases the die hard fans who know they have a set direction and are not looking to short circuit/half ass the rebuild, which is good for business.

You all sit there thinking we should instruct the team to lose. That is not what I am saying. I am saying you need to play the youth, and the losses will come as a result, and both are better for our team than what half of you are proposing, which is a half assed rebuild that results in us, at best, getting our heads smashed in by GSW by about 20 points a game for 4 games all for the sake of getting Paul Milsap on this team so that Chriss and Bender can sit there on the bench and our top draft pick become a late lotto pick.

[BobbieL]

The best news being we have our pick next season. Play the young guys from the start and just develop them. No need to destroy cap space on Millsap/etc.

Yeah, this was posted earlier and I said "Thank God" as well, so I probably shouldn't waste time arguing against signing Blake or Millsap or trading for Aldridge.

And I am not reading into this report what you are. I do believe that McD has no intention of signing a big name like Milsap.

Griffin is not a big name like Milsap. Dude is a superstar. National TV spots. Huge exposure for any team that lands him. As recently as 2015 Griffin had the 10th highest selling jersey in the NBA. Every team in the NBA with the cap space to sign him (or the opportunity to clear the space to sign him) calls his agent on July 1.

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Okay, based on my trade above of Knight, Warren, Dudley and a future first for Blake Griffin, re-sign Sauce as back up Center

Griffin/Chriss
Jackson/Bender
Chandler/Sauce
Booker/Reed
Bledsoe/Ulis

Is this a playoff team?

[bwgood77]

Yeah, this was posted earlier and I said "Thank God" as well, so I probably shouldn't waste time arguing against signing Blake or Millsap or trading for Aldridge.

And I am not reading into this report what you are. I do believe that McD has no intention of signing a big name like Milsap.

Griffin is not a big name like Milsap. Dude is a superstar. National TV spots. Huge exposure for any team that lands him. As recently as 2015 Griffin had the 10th highest selling jersey in the NBA. Every team in the NBA with the cap space to sign him (or the opportunity to clear the space to sign him) calls his agent on July 1.

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Okay, based on my trade above of Knight, Warren, Dudley and a future first for Blake Griffin, re-sign Sauce as back up Center

Griffin/Chriss
Jackson/Bender
Chandler/Sauce
Booker/Reed
Bledsoe/Ulis

Is this a playoff team?

Well firstly, Blake is a free agent. Secondly, if he wasn't no one is trading Griffin for a deal like that.

[Djedefre]

Patience. We need just one more year. Just one more year.

[jredsaz]

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I would love to see Griffin on this team. Do you think he is worth a massive contract?

The biggest problem I have with the Griffin contract is that it would cross over Booker, Bledsoe, Warren, Chriss, Bender on their second deals. No doubt, if healthy, he would be a very good player to go

The question is - how would the Suns work the cap? Per Spotrac, Suns are 6.4m under the cap with cap holds for Len, Jackson and Williams. If you take out the Len cap hold 12m, that would be about 18m of cap space. Barbosa, sorry LB (get waived and go sign with the SPurs for cheap) would be another 3.5m I do believe. So that puts it at 21m or so Clippers are losing Reddick , possibly Paul so would a S&T with Knight, Dudley (sorry Jared, going back to Cali), Warren and a future first get it done. Will not need Warren if you have Blake Griffin. Clippers lose Paul, Reddick, and Griffin - they might need some players like Knight, Warren. Granted the Celtics have oodles of cap space and can make the same trades. But it seems they want PG and Hayward. Miami - they need to dump the Bosh contract to do anything - have it go insured to recoup cap space

I think the Suns could swing it.

I don't think it's a sign and trade. I think you're absolutely right about about the way they get to $21 million but I would guess they move Chandler, Knight, and/or Dudley in a separate trade(s) to create the needed cap space.

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[jredsaz]

Not really. While our offense would be much better, our shot blocking and rebounding would suffer quite a bit. He is not particularly good defensively, about the same as Len, but as a shot blocker he is terrible at .4 per 36 and has a rebounder not so great at 8.6 per 36. We'd get killed on the glass and would have terrible front court defense.

He needs to play next to someone like DeAndre, or heck, even Len.

Couldn't disagree more. Chriss and Bender project as good rim protectors, versatile defenders, and above average 3 point shooters.

They compensate for Blake's lack of blocks, allow the Suns to hide Blake on the worst defenders in the opposing front court, provide weak side rim protection when Blake gets switched onto smaller/quicker wings, and most importantly spread the floor and allow Blake to play as a point forward/center.

Griffin allows Watson/McD to institute a more positionless system now and that will be a huge benefit in developing our youth.

Chriss, Bender and Griffin all need to rebound at a higher rate, totally agree on that point.

Jordan and Blake do not pair well in today's NBA. I think it's the primary reason the Clips have underachieved.

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I don't know that Chriss projects as a good defender and neither Chriss or Bender are ready to guard the best frontcourt guy yet, particularly traditional centers.

Who do you think will be guarding the best front court guy if we don't get Griffin? And Watson was quoted as saying he wants Chriss to be as defensive MVP one day.

http://azc.cc/2hHd66I

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[darealjuice]

I'm not a big fan of the idea of signing Griffin or Millsap; all that does is take away valuable playing time from our core players in Chriss, Bender, and TJ. We also have 2 draft picks next year, and prioritizing developing out young players this year will definitely lead to us getting a higher pick, leaving us with better assets to potentially add a star and complete the team with a piece that fits (make another run at Porzingis next year with our pick and Miami's?). I'd put more effort into getting out of Knight's bad contract by next offseason so we have all the cap space we need to make the next step.

I'm not against chasing a big free agent at all, but I'd prefer if they fill a role of need rather than something we have multiple players at. I'd say center is our biggest need, but outside of Nerlens Noel (whom I expect the Mavericks to re-sign) there's no one worth chasing after. Next season, on the other hand, we can definitely make a run at Bledsoe's buddy and UFA Boogie Cousins and look like a serious team for the 2018-2019 season. We don't necessarily have a hole there with Tyson and the ability to bring back Len and Williams, but I'd say it's the last big piece in taking our team to the next level.