Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[Revived]

Just looking at cap space and I could be totally off with my half-a$$ internet research (shoutout Rewatchables), the Spurs seem to have a big chunk of salary coming off the books this offseason. Derozan, LMA, Rudy Gay and Patty Mills all come off the books, that's about $80m. If there's one team and one coach that could whip Ayton into a star, it's the Spurs. All those David Robinson comparison may come to fruition. I think they make the a lot of sense as an Ayton destination if they throw their hat in the ring

Knicks are going to have money this offseason and you never know which random player they are going to throw crazy money at, miss out and then throw the same money at their 2nd and third choice.

OKC is going to have money and they could certainly throw some money at Ayton. He would be a good fit next to a smart big like Horford.

Hornets might be a bit of a darkhorse with Zeller coming off the books, they have a somewhat interesting mix of young guys and vets.

Ayton isn't a FA this offseason though. He is merely eligible for extension, if he doesn't get one he will still only be RFA next year.

Good point (half-a$$ internet research let me down). I could still see the Spurs making a run at Ayton if they keep some cap space. Maybe he's not worth the trouble but man, if there was one team and one coach......

Pop is only ever interested in a certain type of players and Ayton imo is definitely not that type. Not to say Ayton isn’t worth the trouble for the Spurs but I don’t think they’d have much interest in him.

He’s said in interviews before about how he’s only interested in players that are “over themselves”. Someone who tattoed themselves “DOMINAYTON” and calls themselves that (while playing completely opposite) would probably not be a good fit with Pop.

I’d love to see his reaction though right when he sees this (the comments to this is hilarious btw)

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[lilfishi22]

I don’t have a problem with paying Ayton but I think they should let the market dictate his salary. And they shouldn’t extend him this coming summer just because he’s eligible for it imo they should see how much he develops into next season as well. Not sure if he’ll like it because Bridges, Young, Doncic and Sexton will all likely get big extensions. But at the end of the day, even by waiting till he officially hits RFA, we retain all rights to match any deal he signs so it’s a moot point.

This gets mentioned almost every time but a player, especially one that while divisive is still a solid player with good potential and worth of investment, usually doesn't make it to restricted free agency because the team wants to lock them into a reasonable deal on their terms.

The only time you let them hit RFA is if you are REALLY unsure whether they can play or whether the team wants to continue investing in the player, like Bender for example.

Yeah maybe that’s how it’s done but I just think anytime a player isn’t a for sure max player, then offer them something team friendly and worth what they’ve shown thus far and they either take it or they don’t. If they don’t, then let them hit FA and pay then.

Otherwise it’d be like Andrew Wiggins deal where you pay for mostly potential and name recognition.

It’s not just Ayton, even when it comes to Bridges, I’d offer him something the team thinks is fair (~$20M/yr) and then not deviate from it significantly if he doesn’t accept. Simply wait till RFA and then re-sign him for whatever market value is.

Also one more scenario are those players who think they are worth the max and want to bet on themselves in RFA like Collins.

There's certainly a danger that both Bridges and Ayton price themselves out of what we were looking to pay and thus having to overpay to retain them but I also think we'll come to an agreement before then.

[Revived]

This gets mentioned almost every time but a player, especially one that while divisive is still a solid player with good potential and worth of investment, usually doesn't make it to restricted free agency because the team wants to lock them into a reasonable deal on their terms.

The only time you let them hit RFA is if you are REALLY unsure whether they can play or whether the team wants to continue investing in the player, like Bender for example.

Yeah maybe that’s how it’s done but I just think anytime a player isn’t a for sure max player, then offer them something team friendly and worth what they’ve shown thus far and they either take it or they don’t. If they don’t, then let them hit FA and pay then.

Otherwise it’d be like Andrew Wiggins deal where you pay for mostly potential and name recognition.

It’s not just Ayton, even when it comes to Bridges, I’d offer him something the team thinks is fair (~$20M/yr) and then not deviate from it significantly if he doesn’t accept. Simply wait till RFA and then re-sign him for whatever market value is.

Also one more scenario are those players who think they are worth the max and want to bet on themselves in RFA like Collins.

There's certainly a danger that both Bridges and Ayton price themselves out of what we were looking to pay and thus having to overpay to retain them but I also think we'll come to an agreement before then.

The way I see it, if Bridges and Ayton play so well that their easily max guys for us then that’s a good problem to have and I have no issue paying them that.

They can’t price themselves out because if they play super duper well then their a big part of what we’re looking to accomplish. And not like we have to worry about a team stealing them away, we can match any and every contract they get offered.

We’re in a good position right now salary cap wise to where we don’t have any bad deals on the books and the closest one is maybe the Saric deal and even that’s a stretch (as of now).

[bwgood77]

Just looking at cap space and I could be totally off with my half-a$$ internet research (shoutout Rewatchables), the Spurs seem to have a big chunk of salary coming off the books this offseason. Derozan, LMA, Rudy Gay and Patty Mills all come off the books, that's about $80m. If there's one team and one coach that could whip Ayton into a star, it's the Spurs. All those David Robinson comparison may come to fruition. I think they make the a lot of sense as an Ayton destination if they throw their hat in the ring

Knicks are going to have money this offseason and you never know which random player they are going to throw crazy money at, miss out and then throw the same money at their 2nd and third choice.

OKC is going to have money and they could certainly throw some money at Ayton. He would be a good fit next to a smart big like Horford.

Hornets might be a bit of a darkhorse with Zeller coming off the books, they have a somewhat interesting mix of young guys and vets.

Ayton isn't a FA this offseason though. He is merely eligible for extension, if he doesn't get one he will still only be RFA next year.

Yeah, I rarely advocate giving big extensions early. I wasn't on board with a Booker max after year 3 because you can always utilize the cap space difference given the cap hold is so much smaller than a max. Yeah, I know some superstars have been turned off by it but it wasn't like he was Kawhi or something.

[Saberestar]

He’s only worth whatever the market is willing to pay for him. It’s kinda like all our salaries either, mine and your employer’s goal isn’t to pay us whatever we like, it’s to pay us whatever another company would pay.

Same thing in the NBA. If Ayton doesn’t have a market then who are the Suns competing with to sign him? For example, with Booker if we didn’t re-sign him to the max then Mavs, Knicks, Lakers etc would’ve signed him to a max offer sheet in RFA and forced us to match that.

Which team is gonna do that with Ayton? Not many, if any, will be willing to go over $14M imo.

Opposing team analysts, reporters, fans and hell even our own analysts and fans haven’t been all that thoroughly impressed with Ayton in his 3 years here even despite his #s being very nice.

This was written in the local Arizona Sports news article from just 3 days ago.



Again, I just think when it comes to Ayton we should let the market dictate his contract. I want to see a team step up and sign him to an offer sheet. This isn’t something brand new it gets done all the time and Ayton is the type of player that we should use this option on imo.

Do you think seriously that there will not be any team in the league willing to sign Ayton to a contract over $14M per year? $14M per year?

I mean... Steven freaking Adams is getting $27M this season and signed this offseason an extension for another $17.5M per year the next couple of seasons.

The league is valuing big guys a bit more this season and teams are playing frontcourt players more minutes this season. That's why Monty Williams needed to start Kaminsky next to Ayton. A player like Ayton at C would be well received by most teams in the league.

Ayton committed some mistakes against the Celtics the other day, but we won and he was a big factor in that game. Ask to Celtics fans about who would they prefer at C for them...Tristan Thompson/Theis/Robert Williams or Ayton at $15M per year. I am sure about their answer.

I want to know which teams exactly. Which specific teams are gonna pay him over $15M/yr like you said. Boston?

Ayton has a well earned reputation for being one of the softest players in the league. Every team that he plays against basically knows this by now. The things he does at a very good level is rebounding and switching onto perimeter players. Everything else is as much a work in progress. His rim protection has gotten slightly worse as well as he refuses to leave his man and help which has led to the Suns giving up a crap load of pts in the paint in their past few. He guarded Drummond as if Drummond was prime Ray Allen in the last game.

He might get paid a lot because of gaudy stats. Enes Kanter made a ton of $$ because his #s are always really nice as well. His contract, similar to Steven Adams, also turned out to be a very bad contract.

I don’t have a problem with paying Ayton but I think they should let the market dictate his salary. And they shouldn’t extend him this coming summer just because he’s eligible for it imo they should see how much he develops into next season as well. Not sure if he’ll like it because Bridges, Young, Doncic and Sexton will all likely get big extensions. But at the end of the day, even by waiting till he officially hits RFA, we retain all rights to match any deal he signs so it’s a moot point.

I can't tell you which teams will be interested in signing Ayton before starting 2022-23 season, but like every season a lot of teams will try to improve their rosters and I am sure that there will be teams trying to take a young starting C out of our hands.

To give you some examples of teams lacking a good starting C now :Hornets, Celtics, Kings, Raptors, Bulls....

[Saberestar]

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[Biff]

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Yeah, I've harped on his historically bad FTR a lot here. Whenever others have tried to point to other players with a bad FTR, I've pointed out that nobody is even close to Ayton in this regard. He is unbelievably poor at drawing fouls. It honestly boggles my mind how bad he is. It's almost like he actively avoids trying to get fouled. There's zero reason he shouldn't be shooting at least 5 a game.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Yeah, I've harped on his historically bad FTR a lot here. Whenever others have tried to point to other players with a bad FTR, I've pointed out that nobody is even close to Ayton in this regard. He is unbelievably poor at drawing fouls. It honestly boggles my mind how bad he is. It's almost like he actively avoids trying to get fouled. There's zero reason he shouldn't be shooting at least 5 a game.

It's not almost like. It is exactly that.

The guy doesn't like contact. He doesn't like contact either when he sets screens which is why his screens are often weak.

[Biff]

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Yeah, I've harped on his historically bad FTR a lot here. Whenever others have tried to point to other players with a bad FTR, I've pointed out that nobody is even close to Ayton in this regard. He is unbelievably poor at drawing fouls. It honestly boggles my mind how bad he is. It's almost like he actively avoids trying to get fouled. There's zero reason he shouldn't be shooting at least 5 a game.

It's not almost like. It is exactly that.

The guy doesn't like contact. He doesn't like contact either when he sets screens which is why his screens are often weak.

Yeah I agree. It's too bad Baynes couldn't have rubbed off on him. Baynes set killer screens.

[Jsbath]

No more ayton, please

[Bogyo]

^^In a heartbeat. Would you like a future first with this Mr Cavs GM?

[Preacherpj]

No more ayton, please

Not a chance for me.

[Ryu]

No more ayton, please

Absolutely not.

Anti-Ayton brigade is in full swing today, I see.

[bwgood77]

No more ayton, please

Absolutely not.

Anti-Ayton brigade is in full swing today, I see.

Yeah, 7-9 with a 3, 11 boards and a block on Harden. Then having to guard all small players the 4th quarter playing 35 minutes, which is absurd when you have him chasing guards and wings in the 4th..he never plays that many minutes.

Bigs can exploit a smaller guy like Booker or Cam Johnson trying to guard Jokic, a guy Ayton can obviously stop on multiple possessions because he's the primary type of guy Ayton should defend.

But all his fault in 4th despite Booker going 3-12 after the first and everyone going cold shooting and fewer drives and cuts and more 3s in second half when ball movement and player movement was so effective in the first half.

The Brooklyn defense looked like Utah against our offense in the second half.

[Qwigglez]

Ayton is too good defensively for me to want to trade him. Besides Gobert, I'm not sure how many other centers can do what Ayton can do on the defensive end of the court, and I don't think Gobert can switch on guards like Ayton can. Jarrett Allen's stats may look appetizing but there is a reason the Cavs got him for next to nothing.

[Mulhollanddrive]

points per 36:
Saric 21.9
Ayton 15.5

on current form I'd max his defense but mle his offense so split the difference at $18m

[TouchPassDario]

Ayton’s real value will become evident in the playoffs. Having a big that can guard the elite bigs, switch onto top guards, and control the paint is extremely valuable. There’s a reason our defense is so good at defending the three point line (3rd in opp %) and giving up so few actual attempts (also 3rd).

[TouchPassDario]

points per 36:
Saric 21.9
Ayton 15.5

on current form I'd max his defense but mle his offense so split the difference at $18m

He’s 32nd in WS as a 22 y/o big on a 19-10 team.

Unless he gets hurt or regresses a ton he’s an easy value mini max.

[bwgood77]

points per 36:
Saric 21.9
Ayton 15.5

on current form I'd max his defense but mle his offense so split the difference at $18m

If Ayton played with the bench he'd probably avg like 25-28 per 36. We have a bunch of scorers and shooters in the starting lineup. If Saric was a starter he'd likely score less than Ayton, assuming he got the ball about as much.

I was wondering though, if they did switch them, they could go 5 out on offense in the starting lineup, opening up driving lanes for Book, Paul and Bridges.

And then with Moore next to Payne in the bench unit, along with Cam and Kaminsky (I'd play him for more playmaking too) and Ayton, i think you have plenty of ball handling. Kaminsky might be a better passer than Saric anyway.

Of course Payne would have to look for Ayton, which he rarely does when they play together.

[bwgood77]

points per 36:
Saric 21.9
Ayton 15.5

on current form I'd max his defense but mle his offense so split the difference at $18m

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1997082
He’s 32nd in WS as a 22 y/o big on a 19-10 team.

Unless he gets hurt or regresses a ton he’s an easy value mini max.

He was #1 in WS as a rookie. Again, I've mentioned this in the past. As a 2nd year guy, he had real chemistry with Rubio, and it was going very well, and then he had 4 months off. Now with a training camp and working out during his suspension he hit the ground running coming into the season, especially near the end of January through the halt in NBA play.

This killed the conditioning you need outside of what you can do at home. But even when he came back in the bubble he scored 23 or more twice, 18 or more 4x, double digit boards 4x.

I mean just look at the game log from 1/28 until the end of March play. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

Then another 4.5 months with no working out, in isolation...this is tough for one and done 2nd year players, especially bigs (look at other bigs in his draft).

Then there is no training camp, learning how to play with another new PG in Paul (who Booker struggled with too), and another player in Crowder after playing with Oubre or Saric for awhile, and there are adjustments.

His defense has been better at some times, worse at times as well, and he has regressed a little bit on D I think.

But he has gotten the ball far less, and his efficiency has gone way up. He has has 35% or so fewer FGA per 36 and 25% fewer pts per 36, so his PPS (points per shot) and efficiency scoring his up.