The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[Suns Court 23]

Sorry - don't buy it. You S&T Bledsoe for whatever and the return is not good enough to crack the rotation of your ideal line-up? Without saying it expressly, you're advocating and dreaming of a tank-job. i do not think the Suns want any part of that. BTW tanking is not going to be quite so profitable as the NBA is looking at and is likely to alter the lottery odds.

The line up I posted wouldn't be set in stone, it was more to demonstrate that I would like a team led by Dragic and a bunch of young promising guys. If I had it my way, we would sign and trade trade Bledsoe to the Bucks for John Henson and have him start. I am not advocating losing games, I just don't see a huge amount of room for our current squad to grow. If we hit the reset button, if you will, we could have a squad with a much higher ceiling, and that is what I prefer. This current Suns team might not even make the playoffs, but some of you guys act like we are a top seed or something.

If you want to sign and trade Bledsoe to some other team at least get something good for him. Hensen is a mediocre -terrible player and we have better development players on this team right now.

What you are facing is the law of diminishing returns. Going from 25 to 40 wins is not that hard for most teams. Going from 40-45 wins is harder and every successive step up you requires many times the effort. I understand what you're saying and in some ways even agree to a point, which is why I was never in favor of a trade for Kevin Love. But what you have to understand is that regardless of what you advocate, unless the team gets lucky and gets an obvious franchise player like Duncan or Durant (not necessarily obvious at draft time), constant shuffling of players and intentionally "taking steps backwards to take a step forward" is the classic being stuck in neutral.

Trading a 24 year old Bledsoe who has star potential for a 23 year old Henson who does not, is not moving forward at all.

I agree that Bledsoe should definitely not be traded for something like Henson. I think we could get a lot more. If we were to trade him for anybody it should be Greg Monroe because I think he has the ability to be a 20 and 10 player in our system. He would have a lot more room to operate in the post if he played next to Markief or Marcus to spread the floor.Although I would probably rather just keep Bledsoe because he has the higher ceiling and he showed how dangerous he and The Dragon can be together and giving him up for Henson with very little star potential is just disgusting.

[Scutt]

I don't understand the tankers, never have, never will. As a fan, it's hard to invest in a team that has no intention on winning. Last years team was fun as hell to watch. I'd take that every year over a franchise that wins a championship then sucks for 10+ years.

That's funny you say that, because my brother and I were just talking about how horrible the D- Backs are, when he suddenly said, "Ya, they might be bad this year ,but at least we will always have 2001". That year was so special for me a baseball fan and I am eternally grateful for it. Getting to witness Randy Johnson dominate live and bring our city its first major sports championship pretty much topped my childhood for me. I would give anything for the Suns to win a ring and to be a witness to it.

You have a hard time investing in a team that has no intention of winning? Well I agree with you on that, too bad I think that is where this current team is at. I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

[Moochthemonkey]

I don't understand the tankers, never have, never will. As a fan, it's hard to invest in a team that has no intention on winning. Last years team was fun as hell to watch. I'd take that every year over a franchise that wins a championship then sucks for 10+ years.

That's funny you say that, because my brother and I were just talking about how horrible the D- Backs are, when he suddenly said, "Ya, they might be bad this year ,but at least we will always have 2001". That year was so special for me a baseball fan and I am eternally grateful for it. Getting to witness Randy Johnson dominate live and bring our city its first major sports championship pretty much topped my childhood for me. I would give anything for the Suns to win a ring and to be a witness to it.

You have a hard time investing in a team that has no intention of winning? Well I agree with you on that, too bad I think that is where this current team is at. I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

He should probably amend his statement. I would take a championship if in turn it meant the team was to suck for 10+ years, but of course, that is simply not a valid proposition. I wouldn't take the chance of intentionally blowing a season as realistically that entails there's a <1% chance of obtaining a star that will eventually lead the city to a ring...

Now there's a time where you must start from the bottom- that time WAS last year. Trading Gortat/Marshall/Brown for Tyler Ennis and trading Scola for Plumlee/Green. Unfortunately for you (I presume) they played much better than expected. As did the other players and team as a whole. There's no reason to blow it up now when they are coming off a relatively successful season (whatever seed they are be damned, 90% of their losses were close games) and the players are still young and have room to improve. I could understand this more if they were 10+ years older (Nash-Hill) but that reason cannot be used this time around.

[Marz11]

I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

Well they tried to get LeBron and the other big free agents to come but they wouldn't. What more could they do?

You could write an essay about it, but they way the NBA is marketed and the media circus around it means that a team like Phoenix is going to find it really hard to get those kind of free agent players.

So the choice is either try and win with a young and/or inexperienced team or do what Phillie is doing. I choose option 1. As a fan, last season was one the best and most satisfying Suns seasons I have experienced..

[jcsunsfan]

If Cleveland trades

Wiggins, Bennett, CAP RELIEF, and 1st rounder for Love.

Do you think Cleveland would be interested in trading for Bledsoe?

Waiters and Thompson for Bledsoe? Would you be interested in that? Or even bring in a 3rd team to take Thompson since we love Markieff Morris so much as starting PF

Then we can offer 12 Mill for Monroe a year.

Dragic
Waiters
Tucker
Thompson
Monroe

Not sure if Thompson is better than Morris but everyone seems to think morris is the next Rasheed Wallace who made love to David West and had a child.

Irving and Bledsoe back court? I don't think there's enough touches for either of them for it to work.

Honestly Cleveland would be in better shape with Bledsoe INSTEAD of Irving. A Bled/LeBron/Love combo has a great mix of offense, defense, shooting and rebounding.

[bwgood77]

Honestly Cleveland would be in better shape with Bledsoe INSTEAD of Irving. A Bled/LeBron/Love combo has a great mix of offense, defense, shooting and rebounding.

I agree and mentioned this in an earlier post.

On another note, after this discussion with Scutt, I decided to create a thread on the General Board to see what most fans thought about the notion of trying to rebuild as long as possible until you found a star and finally won a championship vs competing every year but not winning one. Here is a link to the thread, if it hasn't been locked for whatever reason. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1337468

[lilfishi22]

Honestly Cleveland would be in better shape with Bledsoe INSTEAD of Irving. A Bled/LeBron/Love combo has a great mix of offense, defense, shooting and rebounding.

No doubt about that.

[JTrain]

Perhaps we could try something with incentives built in for playing 50+ and 70+ games per season.

PS - Welcome back. This damn thread finally crashed RealGM.

[JTrain]

I have a feeling a deal gets done this afternoon or tomorrow.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

You have a hard time investing in a team that has no intention of winning? Well I agree with you on that, too bad I think that is where this current team is at. I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

I think we had an optimal year last year in terms of building momentum toward a championship. Had we gotten, say, the second pick and ended up with Parker, are we sure he'll be better than Warren? I'm not. The players on our team who were here in 2012-13 had next to no trade value (or so it seemed), and now they're in high demand due to the success we had. We got Bledsoe for basically nothing, which is a lot like getting a Top 6 pick for free. We drafted and stashed Bogdanovic, developed two young rookies with potential, added a 19-year-old PG with lots of potential, added Plumlee for nothing (and I bet if he were FA he could sign a $8mil/year deal), signed a guy who averaged 20/6 the year prior to a deal barely over the MLE, all the while retaining 3 future draft picks... I just don't think the Bucks or Magic or 76ers are in a better position, to be honest. I much prefer our direction to theirs (though if Embiid and Noel stay healthy I may change my tune about the 6ers in a couple years).

Honestly, don't think I could be happier with the direction of this franchise.

[King4Day]

With Allen going to Cleveland and having Irving and possibly Love, they don't' appear to be ripe with defensive minds on the floor.
I'm sure they'll make it work but I'm surprised this isn't a concern for LeBron.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

One thing about all these minutes projections. I don't think Warren will see much time his first week, but I think he'll be productive the minute he touches the floor, and will be quick to earn rotation minutes. By mid-season I expect him to be playing 15-20 minutes per game. And if Tucker ever gets injured, he may never start again.

But then, I've been egregiously optimistic in the past, so...

I also think Alex will be a rotation player this season. I know our front court is squeezed, but I think the squeezee will be Tolliver, who will function more as insurance and emergency shooting.

[jcsunsfan]

I have a feeling a deal gets done this afternoon or tomorrow.

Hopefully both sides are happy about it. I think part of the reason Kevin Love is leaving Minnesota now is because he felt he was short-changed on his last deal. It's sort of frustrating that if Eric underperforms his contract he will be happier and stay in four years. If he outperforms his contract he will feel cheated and leave.

Maybe the use of attainable incentives tied to number of games played would be the solution.

[BobbieL]

Bledsoe needs to get in the real world

4 year deal

bring the number to something starting with a 5, like mid 50s

Suns will talk

Suns know the worst deal, money wise, they will sign Blesoe too is4/63 - but that hasn't been and probably will not be offered

Eric - the ball literally and figuratively is in your court

[aIvin adams]

I have a feeling a deal gets done this afternoon or tomorrow.

Hopefully both sides are happy about it. I think part of the reason Kevin Love is leaving Minnesota now is because he felt he was short-changed on his last deal. It's sort of frustrating that if Eric underperforms his contract he will be happier and stay in four years. If he outperforms his contract he will feel cheated and leave.

Maybe the use of attainable incentives tied to number of games played would be the solution.

Love really was short-changed though.

Kahn refused to give him the DP 5 yr extension. Saving it for Rubio. Love had shown he was a premier player and they jobbed him.

As has become increasingly evident, Bledsoe isn't getting jobbed. He's getting the market rate. (if Love had become a RFA, he would have had max offer sheets from almost every team at 12:01 on the first day of free agency)

[aIvin adams]

One thing about all these minutes projections. I don't think Warren will see much time his first week, but I think he'll be productive the minute he touches the floor, and will be quick to earn rotation minutes. By mid-season I expect him to be playing 15-20 minutes per game. And if Tucker ever gets injured, he may never start again.

But then, I've been egregiously optimistic in the past, so...

I also think Alex will be a rotation player this season. I know our front court is squeezed, but I think the squeezee will be Tolliver, who will function more as insurance and emergency shooting.

If Len plays in the rotation, then I think the Suns have a good shot at the playoffs. (whyyyyy couldn't we get a chance to watch him in SL more )

If he can't, I think it will be because of health, and I think the Suns will not have enough down low to make the POs.

Time to shine big guy.

[AtheJ415]

Absolutely not. Why are people suggesting increasing Bledsoe's offer? We are currently his highest offer. Adding money just to make him feel better or for his agent to save face or simply for the sake of compromising is stupid. It hinders our ability to get guys going forward. Until he has a better offer out there the Suns should not bid against themselves.

Bledsoe needs to get in the real world

4 year deal

bring the number to something starting with a 5, like mid 50s

Suns will talk

Suns know the worst deal, money wise, they will sign Blesoe too is4/63 - but that hasn't been and probably will not be offered

Eric - the ball literally and figuratively is in your court

[WeekapaugGroove]

You have a hard time investing in a team that has no intention of winning? Well I agree with you on that, too bad I think that is where this current team is at. I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

I think we had an optimal year last year in terms of building momentum toward a championship. Had we gotten, say, the second pick and ended up with Parker, are we sure he'll be better than Warren? I'm not. The players on our team who were here in 2012-13 had next to no trade value (or so it seemed), and now they're in high demand due to the success we had. We got Bledsoe for basically nothing, which is a lot like getting a Top 6 pick for free. We drafted and stashed Bogdanovic, developed two young rookies with potential, added a 19-year-old PG with lots of potential, added Plumlee for nothing (and I bet if he were FA he could sign a $8mil/year deal), signed a guy who averaged 20/6 the year prior to a deal barely over the MLE, all the while retaining 3 future draft picks... I just don't think the Bucks or Magic or 76ers are in a better position, to be honest. I much prefer our direction to theirs (though if Embiid and Noel stay healthy I may change my tune about the 6ers in a couple years).

Honestly, don't think I could be happier with the direction of this franchise.

very good post. What I find funny about this argument is McDonough has been building this team for the future. It's not like they have been trading draft picks for win now low upside veterans. He's been accumulating young assets that have a chance to get better or can be packaged in a trade. Sure it would be great to add a star player right now but it's just not that easy.

Even if they wanted to tank it's not like they could trade any of the current players for a top 5 pick next year. The teams that will be top five bad aren't in the market to trade picks. that Lakers pick they already have is better than any they could aquire. The only way the suns could tank this season would be to fire hornicek and give away guys like Goran... obviously not a good plan.

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[RaisingArizona]

I don't understand the tankers, never have, never will. As a fan, it's hard to invest in a team that has no intention on winning. Last years team was fun as hell to watch. I'd take that every year over a franchise that wins a championship then sucks for 10+ years.

That's funny you say that, because my brother and I were just talking about how horrible the D- Backs are, when he suddenly said, "Ya, they might be bad this year ,but at least we will always have 2001". That year was so special for me a baseball fan and I am eternally grateful for it. Getting to witness Randy Johnson dominate live and bring our city its first major sports championship pretty much topped my childhood for me. I would give anything for the Suns to win a ring and to be a witness to it.

You have a hard time investing in a team that has no intention of winning? Well I agree with you on that, too bad I think that is where this current team is at. I view the Suns philosophy at the moment to be: " Lets play a fast paced, guard oriented system, so we can fight for the 8th seed and #14 pick, all the while appeasing casual Suns fans and making Robert Sarver an extra buck".

That's what I was hinting at. The dbacks have had a few good seasons after 2001, but it's been pretty miserable lately. I don't know about you, but I'm not racing home tomorrow to watch the dbacks play. I'll probably race home to post here

I don't think that's their philosophy. I think you need to be patient with McD. We were bad with no youth 2 years ago. Now we're good with some youth infusion. We're making strides and we should expect our young players to continue to develop and get better. I don't see this we're stuck in the 8th seed and 14th pick every year argument to be very valid.

And by the way, the Suns beat a lot of the top teams last year. OKC, SAS, Indiana, etc. I think that qualifies as being a winning squad- especially winning 48 games and being in playoff contention the whole season. They gave us something to tune in every night last year. As a sports fan, that's all I can hope for.

[PhxSunsFan1234]

Bledsoe for Nerlens Noel.