Trade Discussion

[Amareca]

This team needs patience.

We need to cash in on Morris, Tucker, Teletovic, Leuer but after this deadline we need some roster stability for an extended time to let the young core grow.

[King4Day]

Phoenix fans need to learn to chill and enjoy.

Why are Suns fans so black and white on everything? It is either love or hate and more often than not it seems they are hating.
Suns fans turned on Kidd, Marion, Amare to name a few..

I wouldn't care if Markieff stays, suns fans need to stop being do confrontational with hin however.

Also the hate Knight gets is unreal. Sure id like to trade him because of Booker but to throe a hissy fit because they dont trade Knight and Morris for Tobias Harris, a true tweener? Cmon.. I wouldnt want Hartis for Morris.

I don't recall Suns fans turning on Kidd, Marion, and Amar'e.

Keep in mind, this team has been in turmoil for the better part of the last half decade (the worst stretch in its history). Nothing has really gone right so you can't expect roses and lollipops from everyone.

I'd need a better idea of what you mean by Suns fans being confrontational with Morris but keeping him long term doesn't help move the needle towards being a contender again. Why should fans want him here over the long haul? Maybe we don't deal him by Thursday but it's clear he checked out the first half of the season, so fans have every right to want him out.


Regarding Knight, I think the hate is more towards the fact that we gave up a likely high lottery pick for him when we had Thomas in our back pocket still.

[bwgood77]

I for one, dont want to move Markieff.

No. hes not a model citizen, but hes a damn good PF.. Top 10 in the league in my opinion. Versatile scorer, and despite his aggressive personality and demanding a trade, hes been quite professional through the thick and thin and revolving door of FO, players and coaches.

I dont see why we should move him at all.

I might be the only one on this board, but I want Markieff to be part of our future

I feel the same way. Even if he is a headcase, he's our headcase. We drafted him, we developed him, and I hope we stick with him. The kid has a bright future in the NBA and I hope it's in Phoenix.

I wish the Suns didn't always trade the players they draft a la Lopez and Dragic. The summer league teams with those two were so hype. I wish we had kept them around.

I don't think you guys understand the entire dynamic with Kieff. If we don't trade him, we have a huge problem on our hands. At LEAST by the summer, but we really should trade him now. He's been playing the way he has largely for trade purposes. He has ZERO interest in being in Phx and his heart won't be in the game and he will be pissed beyond belief. I was kind of in your boat at the beginning of the season, but I was wrong.

[bwgood77]

Phoenix fans need to learn to chill and enjoy.

Why are Suns fans so black and white on everything? It is either love or hate and more often than not it seems they are hating.
Suns fans turned on Kidd, Marion, Amare to name a few..

I wouldn't care if Markieff stays, suns fans need to stop being do confrontational with hin however.

Also the hate Knight gets is unreal. Sure id like to trade him because of Booker but to throe a hissy fit because they dont trade Knight and Morris for Tobias Harris, a true tweener? Cmon.. I wouldnt want Hartis for Morris.

Who's throwing a hissy fit because we are not trading for Knight? He likely holds extremely limited value. Undersized combo guards making 14 over 5 are not in high demand at the moment.

[NavLDO]

I'm super conflicted about Kieff and have been since he threw a tantrum after Mook was moved. On the one hand, he's shown he can be very unprofessional, he's been a total non-factor virtually this entire season and he doesn't seem to be invested in this franchise. On the other hand, he's still a legitimately talented player who still seems to like his team mates for the most part.

In his last 5 gms (post-Hornacek departure), he's putting up what I had expected him to be averaging at this point in his career, 35mpg, 45FG%, 5.8FTA, 7.7RPG, 4.6APG, 1SPG, 1.4bpg and 20.6ppg. This is the player we were expecting him to be when we signed him.

Compared that to the 30 or so games prior that he played with Hornacek, 23mpg, 38FG%, 2.0FTA, 4.9RPG, 2.0APG, 1SPG, 0.3bpg and 10.2ppg. You can see why I am reluctant to sell him for anything less than his true value. I want to get good value for him so if he isn't moved because we're not getting the kind of package we want, then I wouldn't be mad if we kept him on.

You nailed it lilfishi; conflicted is a great term for how I believe many of us feel. We aren't getting better this season, and why would we want to, so trading Kieff for any 'lateral' player would not make a lot of sense, but trading him for a 1st an a young player, and an expiring to make the contracts match is about as good as we could hope, or would want right not.

BUT, if we can hold out 'til season's end, and IF Kieff can keep up this level of play, and IF his case can be settled by then, an here's the big IF...IF he can stay out of big trouble the rest of the year, and show other GMs he's worth more than his contract, we might actually get some value.

Think about it. Kieff will be 27 at the start of next season, locked up for another 3 years for $8M, and would be seen as (realistically) a 19/8 PF if he continues the next 28 games on this current pace, and out of legal trouble by then (for argument's sake). All this for less than 10% of your cap per season (based upon the projected $89-92M Salary Cap). We all know this is a 'what-have-you-done-for-me-lately' league, and if he keeps his **** together, he will go from a trouble-making, whiny player to a better-than-average starting PF with range.

And of course the team is going to keep their comments positive, and not throw around punishment loosely, and play down ay incidents; they are trying to trade him! Why on green-earth would we publically diminish his value? All this talk about being a leader and positive player for us serves two purposes; it tries to smooth out his problems to the casual fan, and it attempts to sway GMs that he's not as bad as he seems. To do anything otherwise would be plain stupid!

And lastly...I do not understand all the impatience about Kieff over the past week. If after the deadline passes, and you want to rant that Kieff is still on the team, then fine. But until that happens, just...breathe....

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I just wanna say - listened to the Empire of the Suns podcast today, and they were seriously contemplating whether we should send Knight, Len, Warren and one or two draft picks to Atlanta for Horford.

These people should be fired. If the Suns did that, I would break things. Moronic.

[blacksun]

The thing that messes with me though, if Kieff isnt traded by tomorrow, is that if not now then when? In the offseason? What if the offers still suck then? Do we wait until the start of the next season? the Dec 18 trade lift? the next trade deadline? And what if he does more stupid stuff in between? I know its not good business, and i know its not what most of you guys prefer, but i just want him off this team this week so we can get this over with and move on. Im just so sick and tired of talking and reading about that a-hole.

[carey]

I just wanna say - listened to the Empire of the Suns podcast today, and they were seriously contemplating whether we should send Knight, Len, Warren and one or two draft picks to Atlanta for Horford.

These people should be fired. If the Suns did that, I would break things. Moronic.

Yeah, Horford is a good player, but not that good. The Celtics offer isn't even that good. They are offering Lee's expiring, their own pick and maybe a player.

[saintEscaton]

The quiet before the storm

[Amareca]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

[dremill24]

I'm super conflicted about Kieff and have been since he threw a tantrum after Mook was moved. On the one hand, he's shown he can be very unprofessional, he's been a total non-factor virtually this entire season and he doesn't seem to be invested in this franchise. On the other hand, he's still a legitimately talented player who still seems to like his team mates for the most part.

In his last 5 gms (post-Hornacek departure), he's putting up what I had expected him to be averaging at this point in his career, 35mpg, 45FG%, 5.8FTA, 7.7RPG, 4.6APG, 1SPG, 1.4bpg and 20.6ppg. This is the player we were expecting him to be when we signed him.

Compared that to the 30 or so games prior that he played with Hornacek, 23mpg, 38FG%, 2.0FTA, 4.9RPG, 2.0APG, 1SPG, 0.3bpg and 10.2ppg. You can see why I am reluctant to sell him for anything less than his true value. I want to get good value for him so if he isn't moved because we're not getting the kind of package we want, then I wouldn't be mad if we kept him on.

You nailed it lilfishi; conflicted is a great term for how I believe many of us feel. We aren't getting better this season, and why would we want to, so trading Kieff for any 'lateral' player would not make a lot of sense, but trading him for a 1st an a young player, and an expiring to make the contracts match is about as good as we could hope, or would want right not.

BUT, if we can hold out 'til season's end, and IF Kieff can keep up this level of play, and IF his case can be settled by then, an here's the big IF...IF he can stay out of big trouble the rest of the year, and show other GMs he's worth more than his contract, we might actually get some value.

Think about it. Kieff will be 27 at the start of next season, locked up for another 3 years for $8M, and would be seen as (realistically) a 19/8 PF if he continues the next 28 games on this current pace, and out of legal trouble by then (for argument's sake). All this for less than 10% of your cap per season (based upon the projected $89-92M Salary Cap). We all know this is a 'what-have-you-done-for-me-lately' league, and if he keeps his **** together, he will go from a trouble-making, whiny player to a better-than-average starting PF with range.

And of course the team is going to keep their comments positive, and not throw around punishment loosely, and play down ay incidents; they are trying to trade him! Why on green-earth would we publically diminish his value? All this talk about being a leader and positive player for us serves two purposes; it tries to smooth out his problems to the casual fan, and it attempts to sway GMs that he's not as bad as he seems. To do anything otherwise would be plain stupid!

And lastly...I do not understand all the impatience about Kieff over the past week. If after the deadline passes, and you want to rant that Kieff is still on the team, then fine. But until that happens, just...breathe....

I mean...IF I was 6'10" and blessed with elite athleticism we could be talking about me instead of him. IF terrorists would just sympathize with the western world the world would be safer. IF Javale McGee didn't have an IQ of 4 he could be the best C in the league. Alas..'IF' isn't reality.

[dremill24]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

Mostly out of need tho...he'd definitely benefit playing next to a mobile center who can rebound.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

Mostly out of need tho...he'd definitely benefit playing next to a mobile center who can rebound.

IMO, and this might sound ridiculous, but if Keef is motivated, Keef > Horford.

There. I said it.

[dremill24]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

Mostly out of need tho...he'd definitely benefit playing next to a mobile center who can rebound.

IMO, and this might sound ridiculous, but if Keef is motivated, Keef > Horford.

There. I said it.

Blasphemous.

Seriously tho..no lol.

[Mulhollanddrive]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima02.html

stats dont lie

[bwgood77]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

Mostly out of need tho...he'd definitely benefit playing next to a mobile center who can rebound.

Especially since he can now shoot 3s.

[saintEscaton]

Also people dont get that Horford is a center.

He spent his entire career at the 5.

Mostly out of need tho...he'd definitely benefit playing next to a mobile center who can rebound.

IMO, and this might sound ridiculous, but if Keef is motivated, Keef > Horford.

There. I said it.

Better than Horford? I've heard it all.This Kieff lovefest is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome, the helpless captive cozying up to the unsympathetic captor. Of course the feigned affection is not reciprocal

[Amareca]

Hardly outrageous claim, Horford is not that good. I wouldnt be surprised if Horford never had a 6 game stretch comparable to Markieffs last 6.

Plus Horford is what?4yrs older?

Because you can make a three does not mean you can play PF.

I dont think Horford is dynamic enough to play more on the perimeter and defend starting 4s fulltime.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Hardly outrageous claim, Horford is not that good. I wouldnt be surprised if Horford never had a 6 game stretch comparable to Markieffs last 6.

Plus Horford is what?4yrs older?

Because you can make a three does not mean you can play PF.

I dont think Horford is dynamic enough to play more on the perimeter and defend starting 4s fulltime.

Word.

[m1chal]

I really hope there will be some moves made and we start the youth movement now. So fed up with waiting, lol