Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[AtheJ415]

Our biggest flaw these last few years has been trying to play the line between rebuilding and pretending to have a chance to compete, and this trade is another result of that. Instead of being smart and trading Bledsoe at his peak value like a true rebuilding team would, we benched him during his prime to get a better chance at a top draft pick and hoped he'd be fine being on a team that clearly isn't doing everything it can to win games now. Predictably, he got annoyed by the benching and wants to win games, so he requested a trade and made it public, consequently (probably) damaging his trade value. It is worth considering that superstars haven't had a lot of value lately, so it's not a huge surprise that a mid-tier point guard like Blledsoe didn't get us much.

Now we're left with Greg Monroe until we trade him as an expiring in a salary dump to a contender or (more likely) buy him out before the deadline for him to sign with another team for the postseason. That pick could turn into something if we're extremely lucky, but the weak 2020 protections really hurt the value of that pick. The cap relief is nice, but the reality is that doesn't mean anything when no one wants to come to Phoenix. We really need 2 of this year's draft pick(s), Jackson, Bender, and Chriss to develop into very good players for us, or we're could easily be right back in the same spot in a few years.

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

[Revived]

If we're able to move Monroe to a contender for another late 1st, ESPN says we could possibly try to acquire Okafor.

So essentially, it could become Bledsoe for a Milwaukee 1st, another late 1st, and Okafor. That ain't bad.

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

[bwgood77]

If we're able to move Monroe to a contender for another late 1st, ESPN says we could possibly try to acquire Okafor.

So essentially, it could become Bledsoe for a Milwaukee 1st, another late 1st, and Okafor. That ain't bad.

We'd have to take a contract and clog our cap space for another pick. Do we even want another pick? I mean, the way McD set the protection it seems like he didn't even want it to for sure convey this year or maybe not even next year.

On another note. What do you think of this trade?

Unprotected Lakers first this year and Bledsoe for Top 10 protected Bucks pick and Knight? Worth pulling the trigger?

[bwgood77]

If we're able to move Monroe to a contender for another late 1st, ESPN says we could possibly try to acquire Okafor.

So essentially, it could become Bledsoe for a Milwaukee 1st, another late 1st, and Okafor. That ain't bad.

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

[SideSwipe]

If Bledsoe can't get you a disgruntled star like Cousins, George, Porzingis, Butler, Irving...

Monroe on an expiring contract will?

Monroe plus picks will.

[AtheJ415]

What was our alternative? Play Bledsoe last year and end up with a worse pick. Give him the Mac extension that he wanted. Maybe they could have traded him last summer, but when they failed to get Kyrie, they felt the wanted him.


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It's about planning ahead. If you sit Bledsoe when he's healthy and he's come to you privately asking for a trade in the offseason, you do what you can to move him before it gets leaked out to the media that he wants out. McD already had first hand experience dealing with Kieff and Dragic. He got good return for both players but he got lucky both times and luck is not something you rely on.

No. He negotiated outstanding deals for both. Both requested trades at the deadline. We didn't have that luxury, and we have a guy who openly wants a max and who is nearing FA, while having knee issues. All play a factor. Except at the trade deadline, players don't often get moved in the preseason. I can't recall a player of Bled's caliber ever getting moved in preseason, so the idea that a GM can covertly shop a guy for a trade today without the opposing GM smelling that Bled wants to be traded is absurd, particularly when Phoenix had been actively shopping him for 2 years prior to that. If Bled had a value as high as we thought (myself included) those picks would have been there even today. The real truth is that nobody out there was willing to beat Mil's offer, and if he had the obvious value even 3 weeks ago that you say, then teams who want him like Denver would simply beat that offer. To them, it would still be undervalued--UNLESS, they never valued him that much in the first place. It's not as if the other teams in the market will allow a super lowball offer to keep them from getting a player they want simply out of the principle of leverage. If they think it is a good deal, they will up and beat the offer. That didn't happen here for the obvious reason that nobody valued him that highly to begin with--not in the preseason, not last season, not now. His injuries and agent probably scared most off.

[bwgood77]

Our biggest flaw these last few years has been trying to play the line between rebuilding and pretending to have a chance to compete, and this trade is another result of that. Instead of being smart and trading Bledsoe at his peak value like a true rebuilding team would, we benched him during his prime to get a better chance at a top draft pick and hoped he'd be fine being on a team that clearly isn't doing everything it can to win games now. Predictably, he got annoyed by the benching and wants to win games, so he requested a trade and made it public, consequently (probably) damaging his trade value. It is worth considering that superstars haven't had a lot of value lately, so it's not a huge surprise that a mid-tier point guard like Blledsoe didn't get us much.

Now we're left with Greg Monroe until we trade him as an expiring in a salary dump to a contender or (more likely) buy him out before the deadline for him to sign with another team for the postseason. That pick could turn into something if we're extremely lucky, but the weak 2020 protections really hurt the value of that pick. The cap relief is nice, but the reality is that doesn't mean anything when no one wants to come to Phoenix. We really need 2 of this year's draft pick(s), Jackson, Bender, and Chriss to develop into very good players for us, or we're could easily be right back in the same spot in a few years.

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

[Revived]

If we're able to move Monroe to a contender for another late 1st, ESPN says we could possibly try to acquire Okafor.

So essentially, it could become Bledsoe for a Milwaukee 1st, another late 1st, and Okafor. That ain't bad.

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

That's not a bad idea if Philly has the cap space for it.

And then maybe trade Chandler somewhere else (for another expiring) and let Len/Okafor compete for the C spot.

[AtheJ415]

If we're able to move Monroe to a contender for another late 1st, ESPN says we could possibly try to acquire Okafor.

So essentially, it could become Bledsoe for a Milwaukee 1st, another late 1st, and Okafor. That ain't bad.

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

This is what I'm hoping for. Monroe to Philly with a couple of our unneeded 2nds this year for Okafor. They get a guy who can help them make the playoffs in the east as a rental, we get the young project. They get 2 low value picks in the process.

I am really scared about going after guys like Bradley, Deandre, etc.--essentially elite role players with good numbers but who can't take the next step to star on a team. I don't want to end up with the Kent Bazemores and DeMarre Carroll contracts of the world.

I think we have to keep our pick this year, draft the guy we want, and then make a godfather offer that includes damn near anybody on this team except Booker, who we pick this year, Jackson, Bender, and offer all others and all of those picks for somebody who is a sure thing--Jokic, Porzingis, etc.. If they say no so be it--keep the picks and move onto a true max guy in the offseason or during next season.

i am not a fan of adding spare parts whose best value is fit. We need the type of dynamic playmaker who is a fit on any team--Chris Paul not Chris Paul money for Avery Bradley, who is a slightly better Beverley at best imo.

[bwgood77]

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

That's not a bad idea if Philly has the cap space for it.

And then maybe trade Chandler somewhere else (for another expiring) and let Len/Okafor compete for the C spot.

According to this http://www.spotrac.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/cap/ they have $15 million in cap space and Okafor makes almost $5 million so they could absorb the difference it seems. However, just because a team is under the cap doesn't mean they will want to pay out an extra $10 million (or 75%+ of a season of it) just to make a trade. I imagine the owner would prefer to save the money.

[AtheJ415]

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

That's not a bad idea if Philly has the cap space for it.

And then maybe trade Chandler somewhere else (for another expiring) and let Len/Okafor compete for the C spot.

I think if Chandler was going to be moved it would have happened by now. My guess is he has no market. Hopefully a team on the playoff fringe emerges who wants him and maybe we can attach a 2nd to take him. I think this offseason he will become moveable as a large expiring, but right now he's the impediment to max money this offseason. I am very worried about us being players for the wrong guys this offseason. I would target Jokic via S&T, obviously everyone in this league asks about Zingis daily, then move onto the Lavine's (pending injury clearance) and Hood's, and Cousin's. I am not sure there is anybody else who is worth the max to this team, and I don't think the odds are good for any of these unless Zingis demands a trade. At that point we have the most assets with Boston, so there would be a shot.

[AtheJ415]

Our biggest flaw these last few years has been trying to play the line between rebuilding and pretending to have a chance to compete, and this trade is another result of that. Instead of being smart and trading Bledsoe at his peak value like a true rebuilding team would, we benched him during his prime to get a better chance at a top draft pick and hoped he'd be fine being on a team that clearly isn't doing everything it can to win games now. Predictably, he got annoyed by the benching and wants to win games, so he requested a trade and made it public, consequently (probably) damaging his trade value. It is worth considering that superstars haven't had a lot of value lately, so it's not a huge surprise that a mid-tier point guard like Blledsoe didn't get us much.

Now we're left with Greg Monroe until we trade him as an expiring in a salary dump to a contender or (more likely) buy him out before the deadline for him to sign with another team for the postseason. That pick could turn into something if we're extremely lucky, but the weak 2020 protections really hurt the value of that pick. The cap relief is nice, but the reality is that doesn't mean anything when no one wants to come to Phoenix. We really need 2 of this year's draft pick(s), Jackson, Bender, and Chriss to develop into very good players for us, or we're could easily be right back in the same spot in a few years.

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

It was also reported that the Suns were having to add their own 1st to get rid of Markieff by Zach Lowe, who is damn good at his job. Reported offers don't have much merit outside of Woj and Shams. That might be true. It might not, but the guy who reported it as far as I know was just rumors and some ESPN reporter other than Woj. Hell, i saw a report yesterday that Cleveland was considering moving the Brooklyn pick, that Devin Booker is no better than most of the NBA, and that Donovan Mitchell is drastically better than Booker.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Our biggest flaw these last few years has been trying to play the line between rebuilding and pretending to have a chance to compete, and this trade is another result of that. Instead of being smart and trading Bledsoe at his peak value like a true rebuilding team would, we benched him during his prime to get a better chance at a top draft pick and hoped he'd be fine being on a team that clearly isn't doing everything it can to win games now. Predictably, he got annoyed by the benching and wants to win games, so he requested a trade and made it public, consequently (probably) damaging his trade value. It is worth considering that superstars haven't had a lot of value lately, so it's not a huge surprise that a mid-tier point guard like Blledsoe didn't get us much.

Now we're left with Greg Monroe until we trade him as an expiring in a salary dump to a contender or (more likely) buy him out before the deadline for him to sign with another team for the postseason. That pick could turn into something if we're extremely lucky, but the weak 2020 protections really hurt the value of that pick. The cap relief is nice, but the reality is that doesn't mean anything when no one wants to come to Phoenix. We really need 2 of this year's draft pick(s), Jackson, Bender, and Chriss to develop into very good players for us, or we're could easily be right back in the same spot in a few years.

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

If this was really on the table they **** up. Mitchell ended up falling to that spot and would have been a great pick.

Ultimately none of us know what was offered last deadline or this summer but I tend to think at least slightly better deals were there. It is certainty more tricky to deal a guy now vs summer or the deadline.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

[bwgood77]

The Milwaukee 1st is a likely late 1st (in 2020). So I doubt we can get a late 1st for Monroe because that would mean Monroe has the same trade value as Bledsoe.

Monroe's trade value is more than likely the same as PJ Tucker's when we traded him as an expiring...a late 2nd rd pick.

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

This is what I'm hoping for. Monroe to Philly with a couple of our unneeded 2nds this year for Okafor. They get a guy who can help them make the playoffs in the east as a rental, we get the young project. They get 2 low value picks in the process.

I am really scared about going after guys like Bradley, Deandre, etc.--essentially elite role players with good numbers but who can't take the next step to star on a team. I don't want to end up with the Kent Bazemores and DeMarre Carroll contracts of the world.

I think we have to keep our pick this year, draft the guy we want, and then make a godfather offer that includes damn near anybody on this team except Booker, who we pick this year, Jackson, Bender, and offer all others and all of those picks for somebody who is a sure thing--Jokic, Porzingis, etc.. If they say no so be it--keep the picks and move onto a true max guy in the offseason or during next season.

i am not a fan of adding spare parts whose best value is fit. We need the type of dynamic playmaker who is a fit on any team--Chris Paul not Chris Paul money for Avery Bradley, who is a slightly better Beverley at best imo.

I just don't know who I see moving in 2019 that's worth a max. There are good RFA's like Porzingis or Towns who will get max extensions or matched.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20229609/nba-free-agents-2018-2019

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2019/ This list has players that can opt in in 2018-19 that likely won't and the first one has all those with player options in 2019 I believe which are not here (Paul, Whiteside)

Whiteside? Kemba Walker? I just don't see any stars outside of the really big names like LeBron and Durant that won't go to Phx. I imagine Kemba Walker is not your ideal candidate either.

[bwgood77]

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

It was also reported that the Suns were having to add their own 1st to get rid of Markieff by Zach Lowe, who is damn good at his job. Reported offers don't have much merit outside of Woj and Shams. That might be true. It might not, but the guy who reported it as far as I know was just rumors and some ESPN reporter other than Woj. Hell, i saw a report yesterday that Cleveland was considering moving the Brooklyn pick, that Devin Booker is no better than most of the NBA, and that Donovan Mitchell is drastically better than Booker.

I don't mean people's opinions like Lowe. He's not a reporter. I thought it was Woj or Shams but I can't remember. It was a tweet.

[AtheJ415]

This is nonsense and assumes the Suns somehow had control or allowed Bled to leak that the way he did. I have little doubt that Phoenix has been shopping him. They have been rumored to be trying to trade him for lotto picks for the past 2 seasons. What makes you honestly think they turned down those picks?

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

If this was really on the table they **** up. Mitchell ended up falling to that spot and would have been a great pick.

Ultimately none of us know what was offered last deadline or this summer but I tend to think at least slightly better deals were there. It is certainty more tricky to deal a guy now vs summer or the deadline.

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To believe this is to believe that Denver valued Bled that much at the draft, watched him play 3 bad games while they struggled mightily with a still gaping hole at PG, and then passed on beating that offer, which would not have been hard for them to do. I think it's slightly possible this report is accurate, but I don't think it's likely at all. As a team, you care about leverage when you have the best pieces and you know it. When a team comes back and says "we have offer X, which we are about to take. If you want player Y, give us more" and you have been drastically lowballing and actually value the player enough to have recently offered a lotto pick and young player you like, then I think it is beyond stupid to allow the guy to go elsewhere simply due to leverage. You beat said deal and still feel like you win the trade. I think it is far more likely that Denver didn't value Bled as much as Mil, who ended up making the best objective offer among the 2. That is my opinion on it. I don't think their overall opinion of Bled changed that much in 3 games to sway their value on him, which is why I doubt that offer was on the table for Phx to take. I think it far more likely that Phx wanted that offer during the draft and Den refused.

[Kerrsed]

Only it's less because he makes so much we'd likely have to take back money to even get a pick. There are only maybe 2 teams that could trade for him without giving long term money back. We could maybe just trade him straight up for Okafor if we wanted and it would give Philly insurance on an Embiid injury this year or for when he sits. Though they also have Richaun Holmes.

That's not a bad idea if Philly has the cap space for it.

And then maybe trade Chandler somewhere else (for another expiring) and let Len/Okafor compete for the C spot.

According to this http://www.spotrac.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/cap/ they have $15 million in cap space and Okafor makes almost $5 million so they could absorb the difference it seems. However, just because a team is under the cap doesn't mean they will want to pay out an extra $10 million (or 75%+ of a season of it) just to make a trade. I imagine the owner would prefer to save the money.

Yeah, i was just going to say that Monroe for Okafor straight up works out fine. Maybe throw them a 2nd as more of an incentive? I mean Okafor is getting ZERO minutes currently, at least Monroe could back up Embiid, put them above the salary floor, and could be used for assets before the trade deadline. Its getting to a point that they are just ready to cut him outright, so at least this way they get something for him

I would be interested just a bit to see what Okafor could do in a Triano offense.

[Walt_Uoob]

I still think that McDonough should have remained patient and waited until December 15th. This deal would have been there until the trade deadline.

I don't disagree but fwiw this trade is more valuable now than in December because by doing it now we can trade Monroe again in December. People are saying Monroe was just a contract throw-in and we have no plan for him but the timing of this deal really seems to me to be motivated by that re-trade possibility.

I'm not sure about that

That's assuming Monroe (+assets ?) can net you more in Dec. I'm super sceptical about that. If Bledsoe's value is this low and we are to believe that Milwaukee likely got the better player and better value from this trade, then we came away with less than what we started with. If that's case, how can Monroe at $17m and no team really looking to salary dump anything decent, net us more than a healthy and productive Bledsoe?

No matter when you look to make the deal Bledsoe > Monroe (assuming we keep the picks). And as Carey mentioned, this deal would've been there in Dec. I don't agree that the landscape won't change between now and the trade deadline. Teams get desperate when their standing look shaky and we've seen this season after season.

Yeah all I mean is that tradeable Monroe is worth more than untradeable Monroe, and it kind of seems that that mattered to McD, or he might have opted to keep waiting.

[Kerrsed]

.......And even though im still in McD's corner, anyone else find it a bit....ironic that we have been told for years that we will go after disgruntled stars, yet the only disgruntled players associated with us are our own? Like i really havent heard much about any players being disgruntled since Cousins like 2 years ago, except for our own guys. Almost comical.

[bwgood77]

It was reported that the 13th pick (that became Donovan Mitchell) and Mudiay was offered.

If this was really on the table they **** up. Mitchell ended up falling to that spot and would have been a great pick.

Ultimately none of us know what was offered last deadline or this summer but I tend to think at least slightly better deals were there. It is certainty more tricky to deal a guy now vs summer or the deadline.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

To believe this is to believe that Denver valued Bled that much at the draft, watched him play 3 bad games while they struggled mightily with a still gaping hole at PG, and then passed on beating that offer, which would not have been hard for them to do. I think it's slightly possible this report is accurate, but I don't think it's likely at all. As a team, you care about leverage when you have the best pieces and you know it. When a team comes back and says "we have offer X, which we are about to take. If you want player Y, give us more" and you have been drastically lowballing and actually value the player enough to have recently offered a lotto pick and young player you like, then I think it is beyond stupid to allow the guy to go elsewhere simply due to leverage. You beat said deal and still feel like you win the trade. I think it is far more likely that Denver didn't value Bled as much as Mil, who ended up making the best objective offer among the 2. That is my opinion on it. I don't think their overall opinion of Bled changed that much in 3 games to sway their value on him, which is why I doubt that offer was on the table for Phx to take. I think it far more likely that Phx wanted that offer during the draft and Den refused.

So you think Denver refused Bledsoe and decided to take Trey Lyles and the 24th pick instead for 13? That doesn't sound likely, especially considering they were still rumored to be interested later. We will never know, but my guess is the Suns turned it down. I can't imagine the Nuggets preferred Lyles and 24 given all their big men and young guys already.