2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[bigfoot]

So the recent play of Cam Payne, Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, and Jevon Carter has really thrown a wrench into our offseason. Before I felt we were really lacking at the PG/SG position and others were saying our PF position needed to be addressed.

Rubio/Payne/Lecque
Booker/Carter/Jerome
Bridges/Oubre/?
Johnson/Saric/?
Ayton/Baynes/Frank

Assuming we bring Carter, Saric, and Baynes back for next season what should we really do this offseason??

We would need to find replacements for Diallo and Okobo. I don't think we just dump Frank because we would need to find a veteran replacement. In the event of injury, I'm not comfortable with Lecque and Jerome as third-stringers. So what position do we try to fill using the MLE??

We're not picking up Frank's option. No way, Jose.

If we do not renounce Baynes and Saric, guarantee Payne's contract, and extend the QO to Carter, does that take all our cap space? It seems it must be pretty close. I wonder if we hit the cap if Sarver will even use the whole MLE if we are over the cap, even just barely. He may just round out the roster with minimums. We will also likely have to pay a top 16 pick unless he sells that.

But if we renounce Baynes, Saric, Payne, Frank, and Carter we have $20M to replace them (less if the cap changes because of COVID). I don't think we would find the players we need with only that amount of cap. Just sign our players and then use the MLE if Sarver isn't too cheap. Then get ready for Bubble 2.0 !!!!!

[Fo-Real]

I think we retain Saric, Carter and obviously Payne will be back. IF (thats If), Baynes didn't play himself out of our price range earlier in the season (pre injury that he then tried to play through), we bring him back and Kaminskys tenure might be up, but if Baynes goes then Kaminsky isn't going anywhere. Okobe and Dallio won't make it out of training camp at best and both Jerome and Lecque are complete projects, we may only have room for one guard project, one may have to GO!!! We need to add a raw athletic big and another capable guard who can mesh.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

We're not picking up Frank's option. No way, Jose.

If we do not renounce Baynes and Saric, guarantee Payne's contract, and extend the QO to Carter, does that take all our cap space? It seems it must be pretty close. I wonder if we hit the cap if Sarver will even use the whole MLE if we are over the cap, even just barely. He may just round out the roster with minimums. We will also likely have to pay a top 16 pick unless he sells that.

But if we renounce Baynes, Saric, Payne, Frank, and Carter we have $20M to replace them (less if the cap changes because of COVID). I don't think we would find the players we need with only that amount of cap. Just sign our players and then use the MLE if Sarver isn't too cheap. Then get ready for Bubble 2.0 !!!!!

I agree....I don't want to renounce those guys. I would work over the cap as if we had $20 million, signing Baynes and Saric as UFA (along with those others if they keep playing the way they have) would probably feel like an enormously successful offseason, and working over the cap also gives us the MLE which is almost half of what we would have if we renounced everyone anyway. I was just mentioning that if we do not renounce anyone and end up slighly over the cap, I won't be surprised if we don't use the MLE, or all of it anyway, given the financial times...that and we may have to pay for a draft pick if we keep it.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If we do not renounce Baynes and Saric, guarantee Payne's contract, and extend the QO to Carter, does that take all our cap space? It seems it must be pretty close. I wonder if we hit the cap if Sarver will even use the whole MLE if we are over the cap, even just barely. He may just round out the roster with minimums. We will also likely have to pay a top 16 pick unless he sells that.

But if we renounce Baynes, Saric, Payne, Frank, and Carter we have $20M to replace them (less if the cap changes because of COVID). I don't think we would find the players we need with only that amount of cap. Just sign our players and then use the MLE if Sarver isn't too cheap. Then get ready for Bubble 2.0 !!!!!

I agree....I don't want to renounce those guys. I would work over the cap as if we had $20 million, signing Baynes and Saric as UFA (along with those others if they keep playing the way they have) would probably feel like an enormously successful offseason, and working over the cap also gives us the MLE which is almost half of what we would have if we renounced everyone anyway. I was just mentioning that if we do not renounce anyone and end up slighly over the cap, I won't be surprised if we don't use the MLE, or all of it anyway, given the financial times...that and we may have to pay for a draft pick if we keep it.

I think if Baynes agrees to a deal with another team early in FA his cap hold goes away and the suns would then have to operate as a below the cap team. Now that cap hold is like 10mil so it's roughly the same as the MLE.

Timing of that stuff gets a little tricky so if I'm wrong someone let me know.

Some numbers for suns FAs:
Baynes cap hold - 10.3
Saric RFA cap hold- 10.4
Carter RFA cap hold- 1.9
Franks non guarantee: 5 - I doubt they pick this up
Payne's non guarantee: 1.9 - they will pick this up
Diallo non guarantee: 1.8 - I'd guess no but it's such a small amount maybe as a 12-15 man
Okobo non guarantee- 1.8 - same thoughts as Diallo

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[bwgood77]

But if we renounce Baynes, Saric, Payne, Frank, and Carter we have $20M to replace them (less if the cap changes because of COVID). I don't think we would find the players we need with only that amount of cap. Just sign our players and then use the MLE if Sarver isn't too cheap. Then get ready for Bubble 2.0 !!!!!

I agree....I don't want to renounce those guys. I would work over the cap as if we had $20 million, signing Baynes and Saric as UFA (along with those others if they keep playing the way they have) would probably feel like an enormously successful offseason, and working over the cap also gives us the MLE which is almost half of what we would have if we renounced everyone anyway. I was just mentioning that if we do not renounce anyone and end up slighly over the cap, I won't be surprised if we don't use the MLE, or all of it anyway, given the financial times...that and we may have to pay for a draft pick if we keep it.

I think if Baynes agrees to a deal with another team early in FA his cap hold goes away and the suns would then have to operate as a below the cap team. Now that cap hold is like 10mil so it's roughly the same as the MLE.

Timing of that stuff gets a little tricky so if I'm wrong someone let me know.

Some numbers for suns FAs:
Baynes cap hold - 10.3
Saric RFA cap hold- 10.4
Carter RFA cap hold- 1.9
Franks non guarantee: 5 - I doubt they pick this up
Payne's non guarantee: 1.9 - they will pick this up
Diallo non guarantee: 1.8 - I'd guess no but it's such a small amount maybe as a 12-15 man
Okobo non guarantee- 1.8 - same thoughts as Diallo

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It will be interesting to see what happens with Baynes. Keeping him, even at a higher cost than his hold makes sense because it would actually give us more money with the MLE than if we let him go and ended up with less cap space than the MLE. Now if it goes into future years, then they may not want to, however, if we give Saric a multi year deal, then we likely don't have much cap space next summer anyway, so it doesn't matter. I imagine if Oubre is traded it won't be for cap space, but for a player...I don't see a team with the cap space to absorb him so the only way to open up cap space otherwise would be to let him walk next summer, which I'm not sure I see unless we knew we could sign a big difference maker (which is unlikely, especially if we keep Saric on the books and others).

[WeekapaugGroove]

I agree....I don't want to renounce those guys. I would work over the cap as if we had $20 million, signing Baynes and Saric as UFA (along with those others if they keep playing the way they have) would probably feel like an enormously successful offseason, and working over the cap also gives us the MLE which is almost half of what we would have if we renounced everyone anyway. I was just mentioning that if we do not renounce anyone and end up slighly over the cap, I won't be surprised if we don't use the MLE, or all of it anyway, given the financial times...that and we may have to pay for a draft pick if we keep it.

I think if Baynes agrees to a deal with another team early in FA his cap hold goes away and the suns would then have to operate as a below the cap team. Now that cap hold is like 10mil so it's roughly the same as the MLE.

Timing of that stuff gets a little tricky so if I'm wrong someone let me know.

Some numbers for suns FAs:
Baynes cap hold - 10.3
Saric RFA cap hold- 10.4
Carter RFA cap hold- 1.9
Franks non guarantee: 5 - I doubt they pick this up
Payne's non guarantee: 1.9 - they will pick this up
Diallo non guarantee: 1.8 - I'd guess no but it's such a small amount maybe as a 12-15 man
Okobo non guarantee- 1.8 - same thoughts as Diallo

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It will be interesting to see what happens with Baynes. Keeping him, even at a higher cost than his hold makes sense because it would actually give us more money with the MLE than if we let him go and ended up with less cap space than the MLE. Now if it goes into future years, then they may not want to, however, if we give Saric a multi year deal, then we likely don't have much cap space next summer anyway, so it doesn't matter. I imagine if Oubre is traded it won't be for cap space, but for a player...I don't see a team with the cap space to absorb him so the only way to open up cap space otherwise would be to let him walk next summer, which I'm not sure I see unless we knew we could sign a big difference maker (which is unlikely, especially if we keep Saric on the books and others).

Yeah I really have no feal for what will happen with Baynes. I'd imagine some contenders would have interest in him so he might bolt but he also seems to have enjoyed his time in Phoenix and Monty's system so maybe he stays.

Speaking of Oubre, Detroit could be one to watch and something around him for Kennard plus a minor asset could make sense. Since Detroit has a decent amount of cap space they could do this and just absorb the difference in oubre and Kennards salary and still resign Wood. This would then open up additional cap space for the suns this summer.

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[bwgood77]

I think if Baynes agrees to a deal with another team early in FA his cap hold goes away and the suns would then have to operate as a below the cap team. Now that cap hold is like 10mil so it's roughly the same as the MLE.

Timing of that stuff gets a little tricky so if I'm wrong someone let me know.

Some numbers for suns FAs:
Baynes cap hold - 10.3
Saric RFA cap hold- 10.4
Carter RFA cap hold- 1.9
Franks non guarantee: 5 - I doubt they pick this up
Payne's non guarantee: 1.9 - they will pick this up
Diallo non guarantee: 1.8 - I'd guess no but it's such a small amount maybe as a 12-15 man
Okobo non guarantee- 1.8 - same thoughts as Diallo

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It will be interesting to see what happens with Baynes. Keeping him, even at a higher cost than his hold makes sense because it would actually give us more money with the MLE than if we let him go and ended up with less cap space than the MLE. Now if it goes into future years, then they may not want to, however, if we give Saric a multi year deal, then we likely don't have much cap space next summer anyway, so it doesn't matter. I imagine if Oubre is traded it won't be for cap space, but for a player...I don't see a team with the cap space to absorb him so the only way to open up cap space otherwise would be to let him walk next summer, which I'm not sure I see unless we knew we could sign a big difference maker (which is unlikely, especially if we keep Saric on the books and others).

Yeah I really have no feal for what will happen with Baynes. I'd imagine some contenders would have interest in him so he might bolt but he also seems to have enjoyed his time in Phoenix and Monty's system so maybe he stays.

Speaking of Oubre, Detroit could be one to watch and something around him for Kennard plus a minor asset could make sense. Since Detroit has a decent amount of cap space they could do this and just absorb the difference in oubre and Kennards salary and still resign Wood. This would then open up additional cap space for the suns this summer.

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I think that deal makes sense given the skill sets, positions, salary and opening up of future cap space/capitalizing on asset that we could lose.

[Fo-Real]

The money is one thing as far as all these guys coming back but what about their playing experience here helps these guys make a decision. I think Baynes had fun this year, cant see him wanting to leave. Seems like the kind of dude who would live to live and stay here. Saric, I think the same, even though he had some rough (first year acclimation) patches, overall I think he feels wanted and has figured out how to mesh. Carter I'm not so sure of, seems like a dude who might take the same or slightly less to go home or some place else.

I also want to be on the record as saying "I think you guys are WRONG about Kaminsky!!" His early play off the bench when we were playing well made Saric (who hadn't fit in yet), look like he was expendable. Frank was a VERY reliable bench scorer and a reason many around here were sighing relief that we finally had quality bigs and how lucky we were to have Baynes, Saric and BIG FRANK after Dumb ass got suspended. Before injuries hit, the continuity, passing and hitting open shots of our bigs was a strength. Frank was scoring in the post with skill and hitting open shots all while wildly fanning himself, hiw yall quickly forget and turn on a ****!!! Dude is a shooter who missed multiple months of basketball, he should be given a pass on his bubble stroke. I'm keeping hif for sure if I'm the Suns.

[darmani]

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[bigfoot]

Yeah, I really don't see the Suns dumping Frank. He's a relatively cheap insurance policy if we can't come to an agreement with Baynes.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I really don't see the Suns dumping Frank. He's a relatively cheap insurance policy if we can't come to an agreement with Baynes.

If we keep Baynes I will be surprised if we keep Frank, especially if we are already over the cap. $5 million is still $5 million. Though if we don't keep Saric I could see maybe keeping him unless we lose both Saric and Baynes and then have enough cap space to pursue a bigger name like Gallinari or Millsap.

[bigfoot]

Yeah, I really don't see the Suns dumping Frank. He's a relatively cheap insurance policy if we can't come to an agreement with Baynes.

If we keep Baynes I will be surprised if we keep Frank, especially if we are already over the cap. $5 million is still $5 million. Though if we don't keep Saric I could see maybe keeping him unless we lose both Saric and Baynes and then have enough cap space to pursue a bigger name like Gallinari or Millsap.

The problem is you have to waive Frank before the free agency period and don't know if you can resign Baynes. It would be a risk to waive him and then lose both our spare big guys.

[bigfoot]

Payne is a keeper

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I really don't see the Suns dumping Frank. He's a relatively cheap insurance policy if we can't come to an agreement with Baynes.

If we keep Baynes I will be surprised if we keep Frank, especially if we are already over the cap. $5 million is still $5 million. Though if we don't keep Saric I could see maybe keeping him unless we lose both Saric and Baynes and then have enough cap space to pursue a bigger name like Gallinari or Millsap.

The problem is you have to waive Frank before the free agency period and don't know if you can resign Baynes. It would be a risk to waive him and then lose both our spare big guys.

I don't think it would be that big of a risk to let Frank go. It's just a team option. We wouldn't waive him. He just becomes a free agent.

I think it would be dumb to pick up the option..what happens if two teams way overpay Saric and Baynes? Then we just needlessly eat into our cap space. Frank is an exception type signing. Not a guy you sign for $5 million when you have $20 million in cap space.

[BobbieL]

Maybe the wrong thread before the Blazers play
but I don't know much about the draft - if the Suns could get one player - who is that player

I know BWG touts Obi Toppin for GSW - but who on paper and film is the player for the the Suns need? And forget trying to fill a need - who is the best player for their system.

[BobbieL]

If we keep Baynes I will be surprised if we keep Frank, especially if we are already over the cap. $5 million is still $5 million. Though if we don't keep Saric I could see maybe keeping him unless we lose both Saric and Baynes and then have enough cap space to pursue a bigger name like Gallinari or Millsap.

The problem is you have to waive Frank before the free agency period and don't know if you can resign Baynes. It would be a risk to waive him and then lose both our spare big guys.

I don't think it would be that big of a risk to let Frank go. It's just a team option. We wouldn't waive him. He just becomes a free agent.

I think it would be dumb to pick up the option..what happens if two teams way overpay Saric and Baynes? Then we just needlessly eat into our cap space. Frank is an exception type signing. Not a guy you sign for $5 million when you have $20 million in cap space.

I agree - for what the Suns paid him - yes, he was hurt but he wasn't very good. I am not picking up the option

Saric - I hope a one year - even if a bit of an overpay

Baynes - the same. I can see him getting 3/18 or something but I am good with the one for 10

[Desertfox]

No to Kaminsky, you can always pick up Bender for the vet min and he at least plays defense.

Draft Toppin, bring back Baynes and Saric, and keep Payne and you are all set.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Saric would be a MUCH bigger priority for me this summer than Baynes. I like Baynes but Saric is much younger and he was absolutely awesome as the backup 5 in the bubble.

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[BobbieL]

Saric would be a MUCH bigger priority for me this summer than Baynes. I like Baynes but Saric is much younger and he was absolutely awesome as the backup 5 in the bubble.

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I am not sure the dollars - but might go multi year for Saric. He is younger - -might finally reaching his potential. The Suns have to keep him I think if the dollars are reasonable. He played well.