Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[bwgood77]

points per 36:
Saric 21.9
Ayton 15.5

on current form I'd max his defense but mle his offense so split the difference at $18m

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1997082
He’s 32nd in WS as a 22 y/o big on a 19-10 team.

Unless he gets hurt or regresses a ton he’s an easy value mini max.

He was #1 in WS as a rookie. Again, I've mentioned this in the past. As a 2nd year guy, he had real chemistry with Rubio, and it was going very well, and then he had 4 months off. Now with a training camp and working out during his suspension he hit the ground running coming into the season, especially near the end of January through the halt in NBA play.

This killed the conditioning you need outside of what you can do at home. But even when he came back in the bubble he scored 23 or more twice, 18 or more 4x, double digit boards 4x.

I mean just look at the game log from 1/28 until the end of March play. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01/gamelog/2020

Then another 4.5 months with no working out, in isolation...this is tough for one and done 2nd year players, especially bigs (look at other bigs in his draft).

Then there is no training camp, learning how to play with another new PG in Paul (who Booker struggled with too), and another player in Crowder after playing with Oubre or Saric for awhile, and there are adjustments.

His defense has been better at some times, worse at times as well, and he has regressed a little bit on D I think.

But he has gotten the ball far less, and his efficiency has gone way up. He has has 35% or so fewer FGA per 36 and 25% fewer pts per 36, so his PPS (points per shot) and efficiency scoring his up.

[Mulhollanddrive]

14th Harrell
20th Vucevic
22nd Allen
23rd Boucher
27th Capela
30th Robinson
32nd Ayton

For this team I wouldn't do more than $20m for any of those guys, to me that is for All-Stars.

Be interesting to see what neutrals think he'd get though as it may be up to their teams to set the price.

[bwgood77]

14th Harrell
20th Vucevic
22nd Allen
23rd Boucher
27th Capela
30th Robinson
32nd Ayton

For this team I wouldn't do more than $20m for any of those guys, to me that is for All-Stars.

Be interesting to see what neutrals think he'd get though as it may be up to their teams to set the price.

Are you still talking win shares? Again, for the Suns, given their depth, wins are split more. Do you apply the same criteria to Booker?

Vucevic makes $25 million, but is also ranked high because he is the Magic's best player.

Capela makes $18 million...but he can't guard guys on the perimeter...he is strictly a rim runner.

Robinson and Allen project to make about $17 million.

Boucher is older, but he is playing really really well.

Anyway, Ayton has higher upside than most of those guys, and is younger than most, surrounded by more players, picking up their shares of the Suns wins. But Vucevic and CApela are also older.

the only young guys are Allen and Robinson, and I think Ayton will probably be paid more than both. I think he's far more versatile than both, even though each of those guys may be better at things.

Based on Ayton's play right now, I probably wouldn't pay him $20 million either, or maybe right around there. But I expect him to continue to improve throughout the season and next season.

But WS probably isn't the best way to gauge how much a guy should get paid. There is age, upside, etc.

Harrell is only that high in WS because the Lakers have a lot of wins and little depth and AD has been out.

[Revived]

I was watching the Pelicans game earlier and the way Zion seeks out contact is the how many people expect Ayton to play considering his size and strength.

There’s no reason Ayton shouldn’t be doing this night in and night out against basically every C in the league except for maybe Embiid (only one that can match him physically, athletically and size wise).

Watch on YouTube

[sunsbg]

It was pretty clear after 10-20 games in his rookie year(even college) Ayton is not an aggressive player. Not sure why people still choose to bring this up, it's so pointless. Also there are probably better comparisons than comparing 6'11"/250 and 6'7"/285 players.

[Fo-Real]

Positive notes.... the two man game between POINT GOD and Ayton, is getting BETTER!!

[Mulhollanddrive]

Ayton typically plays best after he gets roasted so look forward to him putting up shots on Kanter.

It's a weird dynamic but take the 20/10 games when they do happen.

[bwgood77]

Zion is a freak player. I don't think many can expect anyone to take it to the rim against players like he does.

[TouchPassDario]

“Aggression” is such a loaded term. Lots of fans get really upset when Ayton doesn’t dunk the ball, or “seek contact”, or shoot enough, or whatever.

Seems to me he is plenty “aggressive” on the glass (where he’s rebounding at an elite rate), and anchoring our top6 defense. If he was MORE aggressive maybe he would foul more (not good) or force bad shots or turn it over. Aggression isn’t an unmitigated good. He plays hard. You can’t be as good at defense and as impactful on offense when you don’t play hard.

I would like his FT rate to go up a bit, but not at the expense of his natural touch around the basket or his finely developed kick out passes to open shooters.

[NapoleonII]

How would you rate Ayton thus far?

I'd give him a B.

A- on defense
C on offense
B+ on development/attitude/playing within the offense.

Which is honestly more than I expected from him coming into the year.

[m1chal]

B+ easily, he's so important to our D that without him we would be a 50/50 team. If he was more consistent I'd give him an A-.

[TouchPassDario]

29th in WS
22 y/o
seems like an A rated player!

[bwgood77]

“Aggression” is such a loaded term. Lots of fans get really upset when Ayton doesn’t dunk the ball, or “seek contact”, or shoot enough, or whatever.

Seems to me he is plenty “aggressive” on the glass (where he’s rebounding at an elite rate), and anchoring our top6 defense. If he was MORE aggressive maybe he would foul more (not good) or force bad shots or turn it over. Aggression isn’t an unmitigated good. He plays hard. You can’t be as good at defense and as impactful on offense when you don’t play hard.

I would like his FT rate to go up a bit, but not at the expense of his natural touch around the basket or his finely developed kick out passes to open shooters.

He seemed to be really aggressive with blocks last night too. He was totally in there trying to block or alter shots with a lot of energy.

[Slim Charless]

How would you rate Ayton thus far?

I'd give him a B.

A- on defense
C on offense
B+ on development/attitude/playing within the offense.

Which is honestly more than I expected from him coming into the year.

B+ easily, he's so important to our D that without him we would be a 50/50 team. If he was more consistent I'd give him an A-.

He's the centerpiece of our defense. We'd be an entirely different team without him. He's no Gobert obviously, but give him a couple more years and he can get there- while moving even better due to being a better athlete.

[lilfishi22]

I'll go with B+. There's a lot to be desired on the offensive end but I'm totally enamoured by him on defense. He's exactly what a modern day defensive big man should look like and be able to do. Ayton becoming our defensive anchor is a huge reason why we're good this season and he deserves a ton of credit for stepping up defensively

[TouchPassDario]

Ayton is
1. Better than Rudy at offense (more diversity/gravity)
2. Less exploitable in space than Rudy on defense (better feet)

[bwgood77]

Ayton is
1. Better than Rudy at offense (more diversity/gravity)
2. Less exploitable in space than Rudy on defense (better feet)

Rudy does have the most dunks in the NBA this year though, so he's awesome offensively.

[TouchPassDario]

Ayton better passer and much better FT shooter as well.

Rudy is almost completely reliant on Ingles/Conley/Mitchell excellent playmaking to get him easy buckets. Ayton doesn’t really create much offense but he’s better than Rudy. He’s only a couple percent better 0-3 feet than Ayton, and he’s assisted on a higher percentage of his buckets. Both get same amount of o-reb.

[TouchPassDario]

Decent commentary on Ayton value

Watch on YouTube

[suns12345]

I think Ayton gets harsher treatment than he should because the mistakes he does make are relatively foolish looking and frustrating (e.g. dropping easy passes, passing out of open layups etc. we all know what they are).

But if you look at his overall impact rather than worry about how he can look silly sometimes (which I admit I still do), I think you see a really good player with lots of room to improve. Now, more consistency is a big thing for him but overall i'm a fan.