2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[bwgood77]

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I can't imagine we're interested in Reddick. I know we're erratic with the 3ball but adding Reddick won't really help much more.

If we're going for both, I imagine it'd be Smith, Saric, and Carter for Ball and Reddick. I'm not sure if the money would work though. We'd have to absorb about 6mil and change into cap if we have it.

Would people do that?

I'd MAYBE be OK with Ball for Saric straight up. I'm content with Frank as a backup big and that would allow Smith to get some minutes.
Ball can be the backup PG.

We can't go for both. I don't know what they'd want for Ball but not Saric...probably Cam...they don't need cap relief. For bigs they have Adams, Hayes, Zion and sometimes play Ingram at the 4.

If they buy out Redick I'm sure we'd be interested. That could be a possibility if they fall out of the playoff race.

I wouldn't give a pick or one of our main rotation guys for Ball though, even Saric...he's too valuable given our lack of bigs and he's on a great contract.

[Revived]

For you Cardinals fans, can you believe this was 12 yrs ago?

Spoiler:

[suns12345]

The Heat suck now... did we trade mikal bridges for cade cunningham???

[bwgood77]

The Heat suck now... did we trade mikal bridges for cade cunningham???

Butler has only played 7 games (missed 12) and Herro missed 7, Nunn 6, Dragic 5 and Bam 2. They were hit with Covid I think.

They can be a second half of the season team though. A few years ago they started out like 11-30 and finished the season like 30-11 and finished at 500.

They were really about a 500 team before adding Butler though, and then they also added Herro and Nunn, and Bam kept improving. Without those guys it's tough.

I felt they kind of just got hot and the Bucks got cold at the right time last year though.

They should be fringe playoff. Charlotte/Cleveland are now tied for the 7th/8th spots. Doubt they hold on. Atlanta is half game ahead. Cleveland may hold on. I imagine Toronto and Miami grab those last two spots though and only one of Atlanta/Cleveland makes it...likely Atlanta.

[suns12345]

The Heat suck now... did we trade mikal bridges for cade cunningham???

Butler has only played 7 games (missed 12) and Herro missed 7, Nunn 6, Dragic 5 and Bam 2. They were hit with Covid I think.

They ban be a second half of the season team though. A few years ago they started out like 11-30 and finished the season like 30-11 and finished at 500.

They were really about a 500 team before adding Butler though, and then they also added Herro and Nunn, and Bam kept improving. Without those guys it's tough.

I felt they kind of just got hot and the Bucks got cold at the right time last year though.

They should be fringe playoff. Charlotte/Cleveland are now tied for the 7th/8th spots. Doubt they hold on. Atlanta is half game ahead. Cleveland may hold on. I imagine Toronto and Miami grab those last two spots though and only one of Atlanta/Cleveland makes it...likely Atlanta.

I was being intentionally dramatic, but was suprised/concerned at their record.

Thanks for the good analysis, that is comforting. Would be just our luck that they get the #1 pick haha

[Qwigglez]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

[Fo-Real]

Intrigued to see if the buyout market affects us.

[bwgood77]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

His offense is coming around, just inconsistent. But as a rookie he was extremely efficient and led our team in WS. As a 2nd year player from 1/26 to like August 1st he really stepped up when got chemistry with Rubio and had double digit games with around 25 points and double digit games with around 14-17 boards.

People just have short memories. People even whine during one avg game offensively when he had been great offensively like 5 out of his last previous 6 and 9 of his previous 12. He has a couple turnovers and others can't get passes to him and the complaints are nuts. Booker can have 8 and awful off ball defense yet you only hear a few people grumbled and he is still the almighty savior.

So strange.

The big problem with Ball might be paying him in RFA. If he gets much we could hit the tax. I'd love him with Ayton though. He is a great fast break/alley oop guy.

In a nutshell I'd trade Crowder for him, however I don't that would make us better this season but would give us higher upside later.

But if Payne keeps regressing, it would help us more and really help our bench and give us Paul injury insurance.

I don't think they would make the trade though since he decided to sign with us.

I guess I would give up Smith too but I don't see them wanting him with their PFs/Cs.

If we could somehow work in another team that might want Smith and Carter and would give up what they might want...maybe...but I am not sure..probably depends on his market.

I am just really against giving up another 1st rounder. It would have to be 4 years out anyway.

I think we'd like him but won't trade for him based on our roster and who is available. Now THAT would have been a nice Oubre swap since they want him anyway...if we still had Rubio the extension wouldn't matter, but for this season I'd rather have Paul..but for future Rubio and Ball and our 1st rounder back is preferable. Water under the bridge though.

I guess I could see Crowder going. People are expendable, even if you just sign them..it's the business...we are far more in need of a backup PG, 4th primary ball handler and potential starting PG of the future than another vet wing.

[itlnsunsfan]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

Giving up Smith For Ball would make me ill knowing that we couldve taken Halliburton. Actually it already makes me ill.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

Giving up Smith For Ball would make me ill knowing that we couldve taken Halliburton. Actually it already makes me ill.

Agree with the first sentence, not the second. Smith has already shown a ton of potential in limited minutes, he's just not ready is all. He doesn't know what to do out there and he needs probably another 10-15 lbs, but I love what I've seen and understand why we took him.

Every game I pray for a blowout so we can see Jalen out there. I'm hyped about him. And yeah, would much rather have than Haliburton than Ball. Don't understand who we'd be looking to deal for Lonzo, but I imagine it would be a bigger deal, probably multi-team. Not really sure about the fit. I like it more than Redick's I suppose, since Galloway's better. I guess I should expect us to at least kick the tires on the lesser brother since that's kind of our thing...

... speaking of which, LaMelo was actually the correct choice at #1, correct? Personally, I'm ecstatic that the Bugs finally got a big win. That franchise deserved some luck!

[Barkley6]

Not a fan of Lonzo Ball on the Suns. I GET the idea that we need a PG for the future, but Lonzo has shown that he's a mid level PG at best.

When you look at his per36 numbers for this season, he's 14, 5, 4 and 40% from 3. For reference, Cam Payne's per36 numbers are 13, 8, 4 and 38% from 3.

So how much of an upgrade is he for the backup PG spot? Slightly better shooter and scorer, but a significantly worse creator.

[Saberestar]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

His offense is coming around, just inconsistent. But as a rookie he was extremely efficient and led our team in WS. As a 2nd year player from 1/26 to like August 1st he really stepped up when got chemistry with Rubio and had double digit games with around 25 points and double digit games with around 14-17 boards.

People just have short memories. People even whine during one avg game offensively when he had been great offensively like 5 out of his last previous 6 and 9 of his previous 12. He has a couple turnovers and others can't get passes to him and the complaints are nuts. Booker can have 8 and awful off ball defense yet you only hear a few people grumbled and he is still the almighty savior.

So strange.

The big problem with Ball might be paying him in RFA. If he gets much we could hit the tax. I'd love him with Ayton though. He is a great fast break/alley oop guy.

In a nutshell I'd trade Crowder for him, however I don't that would make us better this season but would give us higher upside later.

But if Payne keeps regressing, it would help us more and really help our bench and give us Paul injury insurance.

I don't think they would make the trade though since he decided to sign with us.

I guess I would give up Smith too but I don't see them wanting him with their PFs/Cs.

If we could somehow work in another team that might want Smith and Carter and would give up what they might want...maybe...but I am not sure..probably depends on his market.

I am just really against giving up another 1st rounder. It would have to be 4 years out anyway.

I think we'd like him but won't trade for him based on our roster and who is available. Now THAT would have been a nice Oubre swap since they want him anyway...if we still had Rubio the extension wouldn't matter, but for this season I'd rather have Paul..but for future Rubio and Ball and our 1st rounder back is preferable. Water under the bridge though.

I guess I could see Crowder going. People are expendable, even if you just sign them..it's the business...we are far more in need of a backup PG, 4th primary ball handler and potential starting PG of the future than another vet wing.

I think that we are set at PG for this year and the next couple of seasons.

Look, CP3 is an amazing player NOW and he can be effective and very good at least for a couple more years. Probably three more. I do not understand why people want to retire him already.

Why paying Ball around $10M (or whatever he will get in RFA) to play 15 mpg? And he will not play at SG because Book is there and Ball can not shot.

So I think it is better to have a cheap player like Cam Payne as a backup and spend the money at other positions.

Crowder (like Saric) is on a nice three year deal and can help us on multiple aspects. You can put him on anyone on defense, he can play as a starter or from the bench, he can space the floor playing PF... so he is more useful than Ball who is not very good, can only play one position and would be behind CP3.

Edit: And you would give up on Jalen Smith already?

[bwgood77]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

His offense is coming around, just inconsistent. But as a rookie he was extremely efficient and led our team in WS. As a 2nd year player from 1/26 to like August 1st he really stepped up when got chemistry with Rubio and had double digit games with around 25 points and double digit games with around 14-17 boards.

People just have short memories. People even whine during one avg game offensively when he had been great offensively like 5 out of his last previous 6 and 9 of his previous 12. He has a couple turnovers and others can't get passes to him and the complaints are nuts. Booker can have 8 and awful off ball defense yet you only hear a few people grumbled and he is still the almighty savior.

So strange.

The big problem with Ball might be paying him in RFA. If he gets much we could hit the tax. I'd love him with Ayton though. He is a great fast break/alley oop guy.

In a nutshell I'd trade Crowder for him, however I don't that would make us better this season but would give us higher upside later.

But if Payne keeps regressing, it would help us more and really help our bench and give us Paul injury insurance.

I don't think they would make the trade though since he decided to sign with us.

I guess I would give up Smith too but I don't see them wanting him with their PFs/Cs.

If we could somehow work in another team that might want Smith and Carter and would give up what they might want...maybe...but I am not sure..probably depends on his market.

I am just really against giving up another 1st rounder. It would have to be 4 years out anyway.

I think we'd like him but won't trade for him based on our roster and who is available. Now THAT would have been a nice Oubre swap since they want him anyway...if we still had Rubio the extension wouldn't matter, but for this season I'd rather have Paul..but for future Rubio and Ball and our 1st rounder back is preferable. Water under the bridge though.

I guess I could see Crowder going. People are expendable, even if you just sign them..it's the business...we are far more in need of a backup PG, 4th primary ball handler and potential starting PG of the future than another vet wing.

I think that we are set at PG for this year and the next couple of seasons.

Look, CP3 is an amazing player NOW and he can be effective and very good at least for a couple more years. Probably three more. I do not understand why people want to retire him already.

Why paying Ball around $10M (or whatever he will get in RFA) to play 15 mpg? And he will not play at SG because Book is there and Ball can not shot.

So I think it is better to have a cheap player like Cam Payne as a backup and spend the money at other positions.

Crowder (like Saric) is on a nice three year deal and can help us on multiple aspects. You can put him on anyone on defense, he can play as a starter or from the bench, he can space the floor playing PF... so he is more useful than Ball who is not very good, can only play one position and would be behind CP3.

Edit: And you would give up on Jalen Smith already?

I didn't want to give up Jalen Smith and definitely want to keep him. I am just worried about our PG for the future. You are right. Paul is still really good. He is likely to be good next year, but we are very very thin at legit ballhandlers and PGs. Payne has looked good for 17 games or so in his 6+ year career. He looks to have turned the corner before his recent injury.

But you see are depth and if Paul or Booker or Payne or especially if 2 go down it is very tough.

I don't know how long Paul will play or how long he will be good. He will be 36 next year. Kidd's last decent year was at 36. Nash's last decent year was at 37...and those are outliers...of a ton of PGs.

AND he's only under contract through next year.

Also, if he does play after next year, and is not going to get a big contract, he may want to go play in LA where his family just built a new house last summer...he could want to play for one of those teams and go for a ring. I think that would probably be more likely than him staying with the Suns. But anyway, I doubt he will play at a real high level then. We need a future PG eventually. A guy like Ball could learn a lot from Paul.

Anyway, I don't know what he will command in RFA..if it was around what Crowder made I would probably be fine trading Crowder if Nader improves. I just think it's by far our biggest hole for the future.

But again, I think Crowder makes us better this year, so I'm fine either way. I'd rather keep Smith than Crowder.

Now if we could do it for Carter, Nader and one of Moore or Galloway (or both if they wanted 4 guys), that would be ideal. But it might be hard to afford him with Crowder still on the books without hitting the tax.

[bwgood77]

Not a fan of Lonzo Ball on the Suns. I GET the idea that we need a PG for the future, but Lonzo has shown that he's a mid level PG at best.

When you look at his per36 numbers for this season, he's 14, 5, 4 and 40% from 3. For reference, Cam Payne's per36 numbers are 13, 8, 4 and 38% from 3.

So how much of an upgrade is he for the backup PG spot? Slightly better shooter and scorer, but a significantly worse creator.

His numbers are misleading because he plays next to Bledsoe this year. He's definitely better at the same point in his career and is a far better defender. Also, we are still dealing with a VERY small sample size of Cam Payne....17 good games or so in 6 years.

For the $ he's definitely more worth the bang for the buck though. We can worry about PG later but for the last few years including the past draft we seem to keep going with the "worry about PG later" mentality. I just remember a few years ago when we didn't have a PG...things didn't go so well. Our bench was also awful last year because we didn't have a legit PG there...until the bubble.

Carter had a nice little run too...do you think he should be our backup SG of the future?

I do think Payne has a chance and it looks like he has turned the corner and is far more talented than Carter on offense, and is still pretty good on defense though.

[bwgood77]

I hope we make a play for Ball. I'm not entirely sure who we trade him for, but I'd be willing to give up Smith if it was needed. I think we've seen enough of Ayton to know how dominant he can be defensively in this league even if his offense never comes around.

Giving up Smith For Ball would make me ill knowing that we couldve taken Halliburton. Actually it already makes me ill.

Agree with the first sentence, not the second. Smith has already shown a ton of potential in limited minutes, he's just not ready is all. He doesn't know what to do out there and he needs probably another 10-15 lbs, but I love what I've seen and understand why we took him.

Every game I pray for a blowout so we can see Jalen out there. I'm hyped about him. And yeah, would much rather have than Haliburton than Ball. Don't understand who we'd be looking to deal for Lonzo, but I imagine it would be a bigger deal, probably multi-team. Not really sure about the fit. I like it more than Redick's I suppose, since Galloway's better. I guess I should expect us to at least kick the tires on the lesser brother since that's kind of our thing...

... speaking of which, LaMelo was actually the correct choice at #1, correct? Personally, I'm ecstatic that the Bugs finally got a big win. That franchise deserved some luck!

I don't think you can determine the right choice at #1 after 20 games. You think he's better than Haliburton? He's had some nice flashy games but he's also been benched and is almost unplayable because he can't shoot.

People were actually higher on Lonzo when he was starting as a rookie and was such a great defender and passer...and then the last 3 years his shooting has improved..his 3pt shot last year was good, but it has declined this year in the limited # of games so far. Not sure why you think LaMelo is better already, though he is better as a rookie on the offensive side (though Lonzo was great as a rookie on defense) and at his age...he can be exciting, and if Lonzo is not as good of passer, he is nearly as good but far better at shooting and defense.

I won't be surprised if a number of guys in this draft end up better than LaMelo. I don't think Edwards was the correct choice though.

Avdija has looked good too..I'd take him over LaMelo..and Wiseman.

There are still a lot of other guys who look good in areas even if they don't put up much for stats like Patrick Williams and Isaac Okoro. I wouldn't give up on Hayes either, or Jalen Smith or Vassell. Okongwu hasn't even gotten to play much yet since Capela is beasting.

[dremill24]

Lonzo cant really shoot or create for himself/others in the half court. Isnt that what our issue is with Carter? Dont really see how he solves our playmaking/creation issues.

Also i really dont see any deals of consequence hapoening with the way our salary sheet is set up. You want to add to your depth but dont have any tradeable salary after your top 7 guys. Crowder or Saric leaving just creates one hole to fill another, best case. Besides that youre dipping into guys that if moved would drastically alter the team makeup or guys you dont want to trade (e.g., Bridges). Its even difficult to trade any of our picks with the protections on the one we dealt for Paul.

So youre stuck with either trading Moore or Galloway or Kaminsky for other Moores/Galloways/Kaminskys or blowing it up pretty substantially.

[bwgood77]

Lonzo cant really shoot or create for himself/others in the half court. Isnt that what our issue is with Carter? Dont really see how he solves our playmaking/creation issues.

Also i really dont see any deals of consequence hapoening with the way our salary sheet is set up. You want to add to your depth but dont have any tradeable salary after your top 7 guys. Crowder or Saric leaving just creates one hole to fill another, best case. Besides that youre dipping into guys that if moved would drastically alter the team makeup or guys you dont want to trade (e.g., Bridges). Its even difficult to trade any of our picks with the protections on the one we dealt for Paul.

So youre stuck with either trading Moore or Galloway or Kaminsky for other Moores/Galloways/Kaminskys or blowing it up pretty substantially.

Carter really can't create period. With Lonzo we'd run...it would help a lot of guys I believe. You don't think he can assist guys in half court? I don't watch him a lot but seems like he could given his court vision.

I agree about the other stuff..I don't think we will trade for him. I've actually never been high on either Ball really. So I guess it's kind of weird I talk about how I'd think about trading for him when considering future but wouldn't for this year unless it was dirt cheap with those role players.

[SunsRback4Good]

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[cberry78]

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Yeah, cause we have this **** under control. Terrible idea!

[SunsRback4Good]

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Yeah, cause we have this **** under control. Terrible idea!

How long you suppose we keep limited fans from entering the arena? I mean sooner or later we must experiment and limit reduced fans into the arenas. I read somewhere that my playoffs at least half of arena will be filled which is around 8 to 9k. Nothing wrong with limiting the number of fans to 500-1300 before more are able to enter games in April/May.