2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[Gorilla Warfare]

[Slim Charless]

I think people understand that's the case if they pay all 4, and I assume you are still talking about Bridges being the guy that would be traded, as I think you mentioned, for a high draft pick this year.

I don't think anyone expects CP3 to get less than $30, and Book will make close to $34, Ayton probably $27 if he gets a max, and Bridges probably about $22. I think most expect CP3 at $33...so yes, that's $116 with those #s or maybe less if Bridges gets less or CP3 gets less than 33.

Tax still doesn't kick in until amost $141 million, so that's still $25 million for the rest of the team. Saric, Crowder and Payne would make probably $25-$27 combined for 1 year and then we'd have mostly minimums and Cam's rookie deal that year, so we wouldn't be too far into the tax that Sarver said he'd pay.

Then Saric, Carter and Crowder fall off so we are likely fine then, especially since the tax jumps up to nearly $148. Cam will get paid then but probably less than Saric and Crowder make combined, then there is Carter falling off. Even if we were barely in the tax those years I don't think barely being in the tax a year or even two would make Sarver dump a key player.

Then Paul is gone after 3 years I'm sure.

We really have to see what Paul does though. If he opts in to get the $45 next year while Ayton and Bridges are still on rookie deals and then we can give him more like 2/$50 for the next two years, then it helps...could even stay under the tax.

Regardless, it's not like we'd be WAY in the tax and Sarver has been hungry for a competitive team for a long time. And although he may be more like an armchair fan looking at Bridges ppg and what superstars score against him, I am quite sure Jones and Monty would emphasize how important he is to the core.

It's not quite the same as putting out the cold, hard numbers that we'll be dealing with. I don't think those 4 return for under 115M. For 4 players. From someone who is widely considered the cheapest owner in the league. Now he says he'll pay, maybe he will. I'd point out that grabbing Suggs gives him flexibility as it regards to Payne. Maybe he'll take a smaller deal now from us.

Also to your above point, I remember Mids scoring more than 11, but nonetheless he has been huge and should be-imo someone Bridges should be able to lock down. He's dealt with much harder match-ups in these playoffs: LeBron, MPJ to start with and he did better on them. Mids should never be able to put up that much.

Mids has been great when the Bucks are down and sometimes tied this entire playoffs...scored between like 23 and 38 on often absurd shooting %. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2103224

Booker is often guarded by Jrue who is on fire and was all NBA defense...would you expect him to shut down Book every game?

That's different. Book is on another level from Middleton.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Well sure, which is why I say they can't because it would essentially be up to Paul.

But the main thing is Portland is trading a superstar in their prime and will want either a superstar back, a young star and pieces, or a couple decent players with a ton of picks and maybe a prospect for a rebuild.

There is zero chance from Portland's side they would want CP3 as the main guy in a trade at his age. That would be like someone offering us Kyle Lowry as the main piece in a Booker deal. Even though he has a ton of talent he is 35 (though Paul is even 36).

For sure.

Dame also has 4 years left on his deal so Portland might just say 'na we're not trading you'. Hell they already have a PR disaster of an off-season so it's not like they should care if some in the media bash them for not giving in.

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Did you see Nurkic's tweets?

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I don't really put any more stock in Nurks comments than I do random reporters. There been enough smoke around this Dame thing this off-season that I'm sure there's at least some truth to his unhappiness. But with 4yrs left it's really up to the Blazers as to what happens the next couple months, especially since I can't see Dame pulling a Harden and being super unprofessional about all this.

New Orleans is the team I'd watch out for if they do deal him. Trade Ingram, Kira Lewis and like a million draft picks and pair him with Zion.

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[bwgood77]

I think I prefer Paul and Bridges to Lillard because I think Paul is a very good PG to pair with Booker. I like the Suns TEAM - I am not sure trying to build a super team is the way to go.

Why would Portland want CP3? Can't trade him anyway.

I just do not know a match for Lillard. The best match might be something the Warriors can come up with: Wiseman, Wiggins and a couple picks this year

I'd probably try for something like FVV, Anunoby and #4.

[saintEscaton]

It's not quite the same as putting out the cold, hard numbers that we'll be dealing with. I don't think those 4 return for under 115M. For 4 players. From someone who is widely considered the cheapest owner in the league. Now he says he'll pay, maybe he will. I'd point out that grabbing Suggs gives him flexibility as it regards to Payne. Maybe he'll take a smaller deal now from us.

Also to your above point, I remember Mids scoring more than 11, but nonetheless he has been huge and should be-imo someone Bridges should be able to lock down. He's dealt with much harder match-ups in these playoffs: LeBron, MPJ to start with and he did better on them. Mids should never be able to put up that much.

Mids has been great when the Bucks are down and sometimes tied this entire playoffs...scored between like 23 and 38 on often absurd shooting %. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2103224

Booker is often guarded by Jrue who is on fire and was all NBA defense...would you expect him to shut down Book every game?

That's different. Book is on another level from Middleton.

Booker is a better shot creator off the bounce but Middleton's world-beating defense and effortless offense and superior three-point shooting makes him a comparable player and I would argue a more impactful and game winning player

[BobbieL]

Why would Portland want CP3? Can't trade him anyway.

I just do not know a match for Lillard. The best match might be something the Warriors can come up with: Wiseman, Wiggins and a couple picks this year

I'd probably try for something like FVV, Anunoby and #4.

I like that trade for the Blazers. Siakam and Lillard as your key guys on the Raptors

[saintEscaton]

We need Dame on the Suns. I doubt we are able to move up high enough to draft Jalen Suggs or a premiere young PG prospect this year and Dame is still in his prime. If we can offer an enticing package that doesn't sell the farm while keeping Booker and Ayton ( which we should able to do I'm certain) I'd pull the trigger

[bwgood77]

I just do not know a match for Lillard. The best match might be something the Warriors can come up with: Wiseman, Wiggins and a couple picks this year

I'd probably try for something like FVV, Anunoby and #4.

I like that trade for the Blazers. Siakam and Lillard as your key guys on the Raptors

Actually how about Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart? You don't get the pick but Brown is better than any Raptor, and is perhaps an emerging star and then you get a defensive guard to put next to CJ. So you could run a CJ/Smart/Brown/Covington/Nurkic lineup...now that isn't a great roster for a team in the west but it's pretty good..

I suppose they should get a future 1st too.

[Blonde]

Pelicans should offer Ingram and all those picks for Lillard. Pair him with Zion and you’re really close to a contending team, if not there already.

[BobbieL]

I'd probably try for something like FVV, Anunoby and #4.

I like that trade for the Blazers. Siakam and Lillard as your key guys on the Raptors

Actually how about Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart? You don't get the pick but Brown is better than any Raptor, and is perhaps an emerging star and then you get a defensive guard to put next to CJ. So you could run a CJ/Smart/Brown/Covington/Nurkic lineup...now that isn't a great roster for a team in the west but it's pretty good..

I suppose they should get a future 1st too.

I like that one for both teams - meaning the Celtics and Blazers. The Blazers have been good but as Lillard said in his interview with Chris Haynes - they are not progressing toward a title. So they need to do something now - if they are going to move Lillard when he has value.

For the Celtics, Horford Lillard and Jayson Tatum with a veteran guard (Jevon Carter ) I think is better than Kemba, Smart, Brown and Tatum.

[Slim Charless]

For sure.

Dame also has 4 years left on his deal so Portland might just say 'na we're not trading you'. Hell they already have a PR disaster of an off-season so it's not like they should care if some in the media bash them for not giving in.

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Did you see Nurkic's tweets?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I don't really put any more stock in Nurks comments than I do random reporters. There been enough smoke around this Dame thing this off-season that I'm sure there's at least some truth to his unhappiness. But with 4yrs left it's really up to the Blazers as to what happens the next couple months, especially since I can't see Dame pulling a Harden and being super unprofessional about all this.

New Orleans is the team I'd watch out for if they do deal him. Trade Ingram, Kira Lewis and like a million draft picks and pair him with Zion.

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Dame should-and imo will go to NYC. They have picks, cap room, young players, a great inside presence in Randle and most importantly a massive market that can make him a ton of money. He can force a trade there and the NYC media will praise him.

Both picks this year
Another pick next year
RJ
Obi
IQ

Makes sense to me. They still have enough in cap to resign all their guys with enough left over to sign 1 more FA. I'd try for Derozan if I them. Dame, Derozan, and Randle is enough to do major damage in the East.

[BobbieL]

Did you see Nurkic's tweets?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I don't really put any more stock in Nurks comments than I do random reporters. There been enough smoke around this Dame thing this off-season that I'm sure there's at least some truth to his unhappiness. But with 4yrs left it's really up to the Blazers as to what happens the next couple months, especially since I can't see Dame pulling a Harden and being super unprofessional about all this.

New Orleans is the team I'd watch out for if they do deal him. Trade Ingram, Kira Lewis and like a million draft picks and pair him with Zion.

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Dame should-and imo will go to NYC. They have picks, cap room, young players, a great inside presence in Randle and most importantly a massive market that can make him a ton of money. He can force a trade there and the NYC media will praise him.

Both picks this year
Another pick next year
RJ
Obi
IQ

Makes sense to me. They still have enough in cap to resign all their guys with enough left over to sign 1 more FA. I'd try for Derozan if I them. Dame, Derozan, and Randle is enough to do major damage in the East.

The Knicks do make a lot of sense. And Lillard to me makes more sense than Chris Paul does. The Blazers would be blowing it up somewhat but you know, this is where they are at. The Knicks would get a star for MSG . Good call.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Would really depend on how the Blazers felt about Barrett. I like him but considering they have 4 years of team control on Dame and the other offers they could get I'm not sure he's enough of a headliner to get it done. Toppin was bad this season so that's a whatever asset and the picks are middling. Teams like NO or even the wolves can offer more.

Like say MN offers something around Edwards. I saw enough flashes from him that I would prefer that to a package around Barrett.

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[bwgood77]

Would really depend on how the Blazers felt about Barrett. I like him but considering they have 4 years of team control on Dame and the other offers they could get I'm not sure he's enough of a headliner to get it done. Toppin was bad this season so that's a whatever asset and the picks are middling. Teams like NO or even the wolves can offer more.

Like say MN offers something around Edwards. I saw enough flashes from him that I would prefer that to a package around Barrett.

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Barrett has improved more than I expected. Already an 18/6/3 guy who shoots over 40% from 3. He's pretty terrible in the mid range though and takes too many shots in there...needs to strictly go to the rim or shoot 3s and he'd be a lot more efficient overall.

But Edwards is even worse from midrange and a lot worse from 3, though a little better at the rim...he is at about 19/5/3 but less efficient.

Barrett isn't necessarily a good defender, but he's about neutral...Edwards is horrific on that side.

That can be expected with rookies, but it's pretty bad. Edwards is more flashy and exciting so I see the appeal and I think improved on his jumper throughout the year but he's got a lot of work to do....but obviously he is a couple years younger too with more years left on rookie contract.

Toppin wasn't able to do much. The thing is, Thibs had him as a direct backup to Randle and didn't feel they made sense on the court together, so he only went in when Randle went out...and Randle played over 37 mpg so Toppin averaged like 11 mpg..which you can't draw much off of.

If you went rebuild in Portland and tried starting Quickley, CJ, Barrett, Toppin and Nurkic while trading a guy like Covington to a contender for a pick, I'd be interested to see how those young guys would do with a lot of minutes with a solid vet C and CJ as a #1 option.....CJ's #s were really really good this year. He averaged like 23/5/4 shooting over 40% from 3. He's probably extremely underrated.

Not only can he dump in points on high efficiency, but his near 5 assists per game only came with 1.4 turnovers per game. That's very very good for a SG.

You could also keep Covington and start as a 3&D PF and play Toppin like a 6th man..drop Covington to 3 when RJ sits and possibly put Obi at 5 when Nurkic sits.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Would really depend on how the Blazers felt about Barrett. I like him but considering they have 4 years of team control on Dame and the other offers they could get I'm not sure he's enough of a headliner to get it done. Toppin was bad this season so that's a whatever asset and the picks are middling. Teams like NO or even the wolves can offer more.

Like say MN offers something around Edwards. I saw enough flashes from him that I would prefer that to a package around Barrett.

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Barrett has improved more than I expected. Already an 18/6/3 guy who shoots over 40% from 3. He's pretty terrible in the mid range though and takes too many shots in there...needs to strictly go to the rim or shoot 3s and he'd be a lot more efficient overall.

But Edwards is even worse from midrange and a lot worse from 3, though a little better at the rim...he is at about 19/5/3 but less efficient.

Barrett isn't necessarily a good defender, but he's about neutral...Edwards is horrific on that side.

That can be expected with rookies, but it's pretty bad. Edwards is more flashy and exciting so I see the appeal and I think improved on his jumper throughout the year but he's got a lot of work to do....but obviously he is a couple years younger too with more years left on rookie contract.

Toppin wasn't able to do much. The thing is, Thibs had him as a direct backup to Randle and didn't feel they made sense on the court together, so he only went in when Randle went out...and Randle played over 37 mpg so Toppin averaged like 11 mpg..which you can't draw much off of.

If you went rebuild in Portland and tried starting Quickley, CJ, Barrett, Toppin and Nurkic while trading a guy like Covington to a contender for a pick, I'd be interested to see how those young guys would do with a lot of minutes with a solid vet C and CJ as a #1 option.....CJ's #s were really really good this year. He averaged like 23/5/4 shooting over 40% from 3. He's probably extremely underrated.

Not only can he dump in points on high efficiency, but his near 5 assists per game only came with 1.4 turnovers per game. That's very very good for a SG.

You could also keep Covington and start as a 3&D PF and play Toppin like a 6th man..drop Covington to 3 when RJ sits and possibly put Obi at 5 when Nurkic sits.

I respect your dedication to your guy Toppin I just didn't think he looked good but your not wrong that he didn't get much burn.

With Edwards for me it more an eye test thing, there's a really really tough player to guard under a very unfinished product with him. I didn't get the hype of him as a prospect but after watching him play this year I changed my tune. I don't really care about the number with a guy that raw. Added bonus I find him to be hilarious and delightful in interviews so he'd be fun to have.

I like Barrett, solid player I'm just not sure the upside is as high with him.

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[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

He gone.

[bwgood77]

Would really depend on how the Blazers felt about Barrett. I like him but considering they have 4 years of team control on Dame and the other offers they could get I'm not sure he's enough of a headliner to get it done. Toppin was bad this season so that's a whatever asset and the picks are middling. Teams like NO or even the wolves can offer more.

Like say MN offers something around Edwards. I saw enough flashes from him that I would prefer that to a package around Barrett.

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Barrett has improved more than I expected. Already an 18/6/3 guy who shoots over 40% from 3. He's pretty terrible in the mid range though and takes too many shots in there...needs to strictly go to the rim or shoot 3s and he'd be a lot more efficient overall.

But Edwards is even worse from midrange and a lot worse from 3, though a little better at the rim...he is at about 19/5/3 but less efficient.

Barrett isn't necessarily a good defender, but he's about neutral...Edwards is horrific on that side.

That can be expected with rookies, but it's pretty bad. Edwards is more flashy and exciting so I see the appeal and I think improved on his jumper throughout the year but he's got a lot of work to do....but obviously he is a couple years younger too with more years left on rookie contract.

Toppin wasn't able to do much. The thing is, Thibs had him as a direct backup to Randle and didn't feel they made sense on the court together, so he only went in when Randle went out...and Randle played over 37 mpg so Toppin averaged like 11 mpg..which you can't draw much off of.

If you went rebuild in Portland and tried starting Quickley, CJ, Barrett, Toppin and Nurkic while trading a guy like Covington to a contender for a pick, I'd be interested to see how those young guys would do with a lot of minutes with a solid vet C and CJ as a #1 option.....CJ's #s were really really good this year. He averaged like 23/5/4 shooting over 40% from 3. He's probably extremely underrated.

Not only can he dump in points on high efficiency, but his near 5 assists per game only came with 1.4 turnovers per game. That's very very good for a SG.

You could also keep Covington and start as a 3&D PF and play Toppin like a 6th man..drop Covington to 3 when RJ sits and possibly put Obi at 5 when Nurkic sits.

I respect your dedication to your guy Toppin I just didn't think he looked good but your not wrong that he didn't get much burn.

With Edwards for me it more an eye test thing, there's a really really tough player to guard under a very unfinished product with him. I didn't get the hype of him as a prospect but after watching him play this year I changed my tune. I don't really care about the number with a guy that raw.

I like Barrett, solid player I'm just not sure the upside is as high with him.

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It's hard to be as high on Toppin after the year, but with Randle playing more minutes than most, them suddenly being a solid middle of the pack playoff team, and Barrett being a guy that does most of his stuff, I don't see what can be expected from Toppin in limited minutes. He is mainly a finisher and 3 pt shooter so he has to rely on his creator, and their best creator is Randle.

I always thought Toppin could likely thrive in the right situation with a bunch of floor spreaders (even a C) allowing him to thrive finishing like Amare did. But the Knicks are about the worst floor spreading team, especially with Randle and other starters sitting..and other guys like Burks and Rose were out like half the season or more. On top of that, playing with Noel or Robinson or Taj isn't doing you any favors opening up the lane.

I had thought if GS dropped to like 5 or something he might make sense with Curry/Klay/Wiggins...defense could hurt, but with Wiseman gone I don't know who you take unless you draft another SG like Okoro. Anyway, I don't know what kind of chance he will get if he stays behind Randle so he might be better served in a new place. Honestly this entire rookie class wasn't all that impressive outside of Ball, Haliburton and Edwards the latter half...maybe Avdija and a few of the guards had some good games. Not sure about Williams.

Knicks should have probably taken Haliburton though...would have made perfect since for them without much of a PG or SG and Barrett/Randle there (though they might have been planning on moving on from Randle before last season).

[bwgood77]

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He gone.

Not really up to him.

I think it's BS when a player signs a huge max deal...meaning a team commits to him...and then before it even starts he wants out.

I understand players points about "they can trade us at any time..why should we be loyal" but the point here is they committed a lot of money to him for a long time.

If I were them, I would play the Presti game and just wait until a huge offer came in for him. I wouldn't trade him just for Simmons right now...I'd ask for way more but I don't like building around a PG who can't shoot...not in today's league.

I'd monitor other interested teams like NY and see how those young players do.

What would Miami offer? Bam and Herro? Is it worth moving on from Nurkic to have Bam as main guy? Not that it's not an upgrade and a younger guy but it's just an upgrade to one position and an overrated player in Herro.

A loaded team like the Hawks makes sense for assets, and he could view them as a contender, but he doesn't really make sense with Trae.

I just don't see a contender...unless someone like Kawhi or George leave.

He makes near $40 million so hard to come up with matching money too.

I don't think the Pelicans are a contender with just him and Zion...their supporting cast isn't good enough. I don't think that's much better (if at all) than Booker and Ayton, but we also need Paul, Bridges, Cam, Payne, Crowder to be a contender. Are the Pelicans any better than the Blazers? Blazers have more depth, CJ is underrated. Covington has always been underrated and Nurkic too. A couple years ago he was 16/10/3 with good D, and last year before he went down, 18/10/4 and this year added a 3...so he can score, rebound, pass, hit 3s, block shots and play decent D. Bam can't shoot 3s..is a better passer and probably a better defender but not a huge upgrade. Nurkic is only 26 too. He is a FA but I think he will re-sign if they want him.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Barrett has improved more than I expected. Already an 18/6/3 guy who shoots over 40% from 3. He's pretty terrible in the mid range though and takes too many shots in there...needs to strictly go to the rim or shoot 3s and he'd be a lot more efficient overall.

But Edwards is even worse from midrange and a lot worse from 3, though a little better at the rim...he is at about 19/5/3 but less efficient.

Barrett isn't necessarily a good defender, but he's about neutral...Edwards is horrific on that side.

That can be expected with rookies, but it's pretty bad. Edwards is more flashy and exciting so I see the appeal and I think improved on his jumper throughout the year but he's got a lot of work to do....but obviously he is a couple years younger too with more years left on rookie contract.

Toppin wasn't able to do much. The thing is, Thibs had him as a direct backup to Randle and didn't feel they made sense on the court together, so he only went in when Randle went out...and Randle played over 37 mpg so Toppin averaged like 11 mpg..which you can't draw much off of.

If you went rebuild in Portland and tried starting Quickley, CJ, Barrett, Toppin and Nurkic while trading a guy like Covington to a contender for a pick, I'd be interested to see how those young guys would do with a lot of minutes with a solid vet C and CJ as a #1 option.....CJ's #s were really really good this year. He averaged like 23/5/4 shooting over 40% from 3. He's probably extremely underrated.

Not only can he dump in points on high efficiency, but his near 5 assists per game only came with 1.4 turnovers per game. That's very very good for a SG.

You could also keep Covington and start as a 3&D PF and play Toppin like a 6th man..drop Covington to 3 when RJ sits and possibly put Obi at 5 when Nurkic sits.

I respect your dedication to your guy Toppin I just didn't think he looked good but your not wrong that he didn't get much burn.

With Edwards for me it more an eye test thing, there's a really really tough player to guard under a very unfinished product with him. I didn't get the hype of him as a prospect but after watching him play this year I changed my tune. I don't really care about the number with a guy that raw.

I like Barrett, solid player I'm just not sure the upside is as high with him.

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It's hard to be as high on Toppin after the year, but with Randle playing more minutes than most, them suddenly being a solid middle of the pack playoff team, and Barrett being a guy that does most of his stuff, I don't see what can be expected from Toppin in limited minutes. He is mainly a finisher and 3 pt shooter so he has to rely on his creator, and their best creator is Randle.

I always thought Toppin could likely thrive in the right situation with a bunch of floor spreaders (even a C) allowing him to thrive finishing like Amare did. But the Knicks are about the worst floor spreading team, especially with Randle and other starters sitting..and other guys like Burks and Rose were out like half the season or more. On top of that, playing with Noel or Robinson or Taj isn't doing you any favors opening up the lane.

I had thought if GS dropped to like 5 or something he might make sense with Curry/Klay/Wiggins...defense could hurt, but with Wiseman gone I don't know who you take unless you draft another SG like Okoro. Anyway, I don't know what kind of chance he will get if he stays behind Randle so he might be better served in a new place. Honestly this entire rookie class wasn't all that impressive outside of Ball, Haliburton and Edwards the latter half...maybe Avdija and a few of the guards had some good games. Not sure about Williams.

Knicks should have probably taken Haliburton though...would have made perfect since for them without much of a PG or SG and Barrett/Randle there (though they might have been planning on moving on from Randle before last season).

I never understood why they took Toppin after hiring Thibs as the coach, that seemed like a terrible pairing from day 1.

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[bwgood77]

I respect your dedication to your guy Toppin I just didn't think he looked good but your not wrong that he didn't get much burn.

With Edwards for me it more an eye test thing, there's a really really tough player to guard under a very unfinished product with him. I didn't get the hype of him as a prospect but after watching him play this year I changed my tune. I don't really care about the number with a guy that raw.

I like Barrett, solid player I'm just not sure the upside is as high with him.

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It's hard to be as high on Toppin after the year, but with Randle playing more minutes than most, them suddenly being a solid middle of the pack playoff team, and Barrett being a guy that does most of his stuff, I don't see what can be expected from Toppin in limited minutes. He is mainly a finisher and 3 pt shooter so he has to rely on his creator, and their best creator is Randle.

I always thought Toppin could likely thrive in the right situation with a bunch of floor spreaders (even a C) allowing him to thrive finishing like Amare did. But the Knicks are about the worst floor spreading team, especially with Randle and other starters sitting..and other guys like Burks and Rose were out like half the season or more. On top of that, playing with Noel or Robinson or Taj isn't doing you any favors opening up the lane.

I had thought if GS dropped to like 5 or something he might make sense with Curry/Klay/Wiggins...defense could hurt, but with Wiseman gone I don't know who you take unless you draft another SG like Okoro. Anyway, I don't know what kind of chance he will get if he stays behind Randle so he might be better served in a new place. Honestly this entire rookie class wasn't all that impressive outside of Ball, Haliburton and Edwards the latter half...maybe Avdija and a few of the guards had some good games. Not sure about Williams.

Knicks should have probably taken Haliburton though...would have made perfect since for them without much of a PG or SG and Barrett/Randle there (though they might have been planning on moving on from Randle before last season).

I never understood why they took Toppin after hiring Thibs as the coach, that seemed like a terrible pairing from day 1.

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Yeah, but theoretically, he would be a guy that could really help Toppin with his defense (though not sure what he did with Towns and Wiggins)....and you could have said the same thing about Ayton after college, so you never know. His defense wasn't thought of highly in the draft, but he was probably a better defender than Ayton in college.