The Official Draft Thread 2: Judgement Day

[Kerrsed]

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress: Terrence Ross gets 14th Green Room invite w/Davis, T-Rob, Beal, MKG, Barnes, Lillard, Waiters, Rivers, Drummond, Lamb, Henson Zeller Leonard. via Twitter

Looks like Sullinger didnt get invited!

[Dragic13]

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress: Terrence Ross gets 14th Green Room invite w/Davis, T-Rob, Beal, MKG, Barnes, Lillard, Waiters, Rivers, Drummond, Lamb, Henson Zeller Leonard. via Twitter

Looks like Sullinger didnt get invited!

I like Terrence Ross I think he will be a great NBA player and a great draft pick.

Sullinger I have never cared for...But if his stock falling means we dont get Waiters/Rivers/Kendall

I wouldnt mind Ross...


They say the best possible case is Scola for Sullinger? Scola is a great player and very underrated. But if he ever does equate to that value than good for him because he will be better than most of the lottery I bet. But I dont think we will ever be as good as Scola and injuries are worth being worried about.

[bwgood77]

Uh...let's see. We have Telfair and Brooks at PG is Marshall better than these guys right now

We have Redd..Brown at the 2 is Lamb and Ross better than these guys

I would pick Lilliard 1st over all of these guys, but Waiters and Rivers.....not really. As long as we come out the draft without Marshall, we win.......

Marshall is already a better passer than those guys. I would rather have Lamb and Ross, but Marshall is the one guy in this draft best equipped to make his teammates better. He's not my favorite or anything, but he isn't horse manure. 9.75 assists per game in college at a major division 1 program is the best in well over a decade. Even Kidd only averaged 9.1.

That said, Scott Machado might be an even better passer, and is definitely a better shooter. While he did go to Iona, he has the most apg in all of division one in about 14 years.. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/lea ... eason.html

I would rather go after Machado than Marshall. As you point out, Machado has the better passing, better bball iq, about equal court vision, but with better shooting.

Marshall had a ton of assists, but who wouldnt with Barnes/Henson/Zeller finishing the plays. What impresses me is Machado averaged close to 10 assists with CRAP PLAYERS next to him. Name another player on Iona. Somebody....anybody....name a player on Iona (without cheating and looking it up). You cant. Machado's 10 assists with nobody >>>>>> Marshalls 10 assists with a stacked team. If you switched them, i could see Machado averaging close to 15 assists a game, while Marshall would pull in about 5 on a crap Iona team. So do you waste the #13 on Marshall, or get the better player in Machado with a 2nd round pick? That choice is an easy one for me.

Well, I do know one player on Iona....Momo Jones, because I was mad he transferred from UA after they went to the elite eight. He was the Wildcats 2nd best player on that elite eight team, so that is one pretty good teammate....he was Iona's second leading scorer.

I had the initial thought that you did about playing with great talent, but Marshall also plays against MUCH tougher competition...not sure if you know what teams are in the MAAC, but few players, if any, are of NBA quality on opposing teams either http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... conference

Probably the biggest factor to look at is their age and experience though. Marshall did this as a sophomore. When Machado was a sophomore he averaged 3.9 assists per game and shot worse than Marshall did this year. http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... tt-machado

Machado also had more years to become familiar with teammates, system, etc. What this mostly means is that Machado, while probably being a more mature player at this point, probably is closer to his peak than Marshall is, because Marshall is just two years removed from high school whereas Machado took four years to get to where he is.

This is probably the main reason Marshall is rated so much higher....because he is younger and likely has much more upside.

That being said, I wouldn't mind getting Machado at all.

[bwgood77]

I had noticed earlier in the day that Ross was the only sg that hadn't gotten invited.....made me feel like we would probably end up with him.

I'm thinking we would take him or Lamb over Marshall, but Marshall might be the pick if all the shooting guards are gone.

I wonder if Houston ends up with 5 and 8 and isn't able to package those two picks to land Howard, who they will go for at 8 (assuming they take Drummond at 5.) I guess they would likely take a guy like Waiters, Lamb or Ross as well since they are pretty loaded at the forward spots.

[jredsaz]

By all accounts it look like the Suns will be choosing between Lamb, Ross, and Marshall unless we make a move to trade up. I can't say that I am really excited about any one of these guys.

I wish they would give up on the Steve Nash idea and commit to the rebuild. I really think we could move up in this draft and pick up a decent player if we packaged Gortat in a deal.

Gortat/13 to Detroit for Stuckey/9. Draft Rivers

Gortat/13/protected pick to Sacramento for Tyreke/5/35. Draft Drummond/BPA.

I don't understand what Houston would have to offer that is better than Gortat/13. By all accounts they are not offering both firsts to move up to 5. No reason we couldn't steal that trade and even flip 5 back to Houston/Milwaukee/Detroit if we wanted.

[TheMoochinator]

I personally hope we draft Ross if another player doesn't necessarily fall to us. I think he's flying way under the radar thus far.

[NotTraxxe]

Marshall will have a career in the NBA for a long time as a fascilitating point guard. If he can get a reliable (not great shot) and there are at least two dynamic scoring options on that team then he is a complete asset and an excellent pick and a solid starter.

That's a given considering his handles and court vision.

The Suns are not in a position to swing for the fences with #13. If we had Nash re-signing then I want a SG and nothing else. Absent Nash, Marshall will have a career and can be an excellent starter until we can get a superstar. Marshall will not be a superstar. At best if he gets a shot he will be a Gortat level (just shy of all star) player. Two of those on a team is good. Then in the next couple of drafts we get a scoring superstar like Shabazz... and use a ton of cap to get a #2 option. Or get Nerlens and then use cap to get Harden with a big deal.

No superstar is signing with our team. Our reputation has gone down the crapper. Both in terms of respect from owners and players. We have appeal to aging and injured.... that's it. We're only getting to competition again with a drafted start to start the ball rolling.

Then only one that may give us that is Waiters, Drummond (less likely than Waiters I think)... but next year's draft has more star/superstar potential in the low lottery where we will be.

Superstar/Star: Shabazz/Noel
1 of the following Free Agents: James Harden/Josh Smith
Borderline Stars: Gortat/Marshall

Marshall/Shabazz/Dudley/Smith/Gortat
Flynn/Redd/FA/Lopez

[JMac1]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

What the heck is going on about Marshall?..It was stated long ago; the Suns need perimeter defense and a guy who could create his own shot...definitely not Marshall, PLUS you don't go safe at this point, no more Lopez over Jordan and McGee...

Lamb and Ross are the guys who meet what we are seeking. Lamb better creator and Ross more defense and rebounding. If Ross can develope his handles and create his own shot (his workout video appears to suggest that) than he should be the pick of the two, but one will have been taken and we just take the other....done deal. Plus I think Ross has the size to post-up in the future.. I see 6'7 215 easy!!

Pick up a late pick and get QMiller and call it a day

[Mjee]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

What the heck is going on about Marshall?..It was stated long ago; the Suns need perimeter defense and a guy who could create his own shot...definitely not Marshall, PLUS you don't go safe at this point, no more Lopez over Jordan and McGee...

Lamb and Ross are the guys who meet what we are seeking. Lamb better creator and Ross more defense and rebounding. If Ross can develope his handles and create his own shot (his workout video appears to suggest that) than he should be the pick of the two, but one will have been taken and we just take the other....done deal. Plus I think Ross has the size to post-up in the future.. I see 6'7 215 easy!!

Pick up a late pick and get QMiller and call it a day

+1000000

I couldn't have said it better myself! Ross or Lamb will be available and we better choose one of them! We don't need marshall! If Nash leaves we will get Dragic or Felton! I have a better jump-shot than Marshall! Plus Marshall thrives in a talent filled system with scorers. I hate to say it but the SUNS have nobody that can consistently score...Our leading scorer was Gortat people...15ppg...that is sad!!! If we get Marshall I will burn U.S. Airways to the ground!!!!!!......not really but, I will be pissed.

[NotTraxxe]

You are not getting a star out of this draft after the ninth pick once Drummond/Rivers/Waiters/Davis are gone. We need a scorer and a defender because we have Nash. Absent Nash we are #$%@#%$@#$ in the A.

Lamb. Ross. That is not swinging for the fences. That is bunting at the best....

Marshall (though I think 13 is too high and would prefer to move back) is a base hit. With a runner on first you swing for the fences with Shabazz, etc. The next two drafts will not have talent this deep. Take this talent (but not allstar talent) and pick where the most value is. The difference is during the next two drafts if you pair one star/superstar with Marshall you are doing hella fine.

We are drafting for the rebuild. You swing for the fences when there is greater chance of a home run. That is not this draft and not at #13. Next year with a top four pick? Much much more likely. Marshall puts us in position to capitalize in the future.

Again, if we keep Nash then we want to swing at a SG... but outside of Nash and staying relevant this draft is not the draft to swing for the fences. And Marshall to Lopez is not a good comparison. Lopez did not come with elite anything. Marshall has handles and passing elite. You only have to work on his shooting and D. He's a competent player from day 1 who will help Gortat and other players retain value if we need to make trades.

Ross and Lamb provide no improved value for our assets to get back into competition. At best they give us a scoring SG that is not a star. A solid starter, sure... but that **** on Gortat's value and next year with our lottery pick we can't keep Gortat and Noel. Gortat's value has dropped without a distributor and we negotiate from a position of weakness. If we get Shabazz we have two SG's and a talent jam at SG. As bad as we will be next year either way there is a damn good chance we land one or the other. And in that scenario we benefit more by getting Marshall, trading back a bit.... and taking a second. Because there are excellent SG's in this draft with tremendous value that are knock out shooters who just can't create their own shot. Marshall increases our value as a team and positions us better for the future.

[Kerrsed]

SBNation just did a mock with the local SBNation guys drafting for their own teams. With that being said:

13. PHOENIX SUNS: TERRENCE ROSS
Pick made by Seth Pollack of Bright Side Of The Sun

The Phoenix Suns need a point guard regardless of where Steve Nash lays down on the sidelines while not in the game next season. They got burned by passing on Jrue Holliday, Darren Collison and Ty Lawson in favor of Earl Clark (and we won't mention the sold draft pick formerly known as Rajon Rondo) and they will likely get burned by passing on Kendall Mashall. But Terrrence Ross is too versatile to ignore. Defense. Shooting. Scoring. Upside. Everything Josh Childress is not. Point guard can wait until next year when the Suns have a higher pick.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba-draft/2012/ ... hony-davis

[bwgood77]

Marshall will have a career in the NBA for a long time as a fascilitating point guard. If he can get a reliable (not great shot) and there are at least two dynamic scoring options on that team then he is a complete asset and an excellent pick and a solid starter.

That's a given considering his handles and court vision.

The Suns are not in a position to swing for the fences with #13. If we had Nash re-signing then I want a SG and nothing else. Absent Nash, Marshall will have a career and can be an excellent starter until we can get a superstar. Marshall will not be a superstar. At best if he gets a shot he will be a Gortat level (just shy of all star) player. Two of those on a team is good. Then in the next couple of drafts we get a scoring superstar like Shabazz... and use a ton of cap to get a #2 option. Or get Nerlens and then use cap to get Harden with a big deal.

No superstar is signing with our team. Our reputation has gone down the crapper. Both in terms of respect from owners and players. We have appeal to aging and injured.... that's it. We're only getting to competition again with a drafted start to start the ball rolling.

Then only one that may give us that is Waiters, Drummond (less likely than Waiters I think)... but next year's draft has more star/superstar potential in the low lottery where we will be.

Superstar/Star: Shabazz/Noel
1 of the following Free Agents: James Harden/Josh Smith
Borderline Stars: Gortat/Marshall

Marshall/Shabazz/Dudley/Smith/Gortat
Flynn/Redd/FA/Lopez

That is one of the better two year plans I've seen (meant to mention it after the first post.) Of course it's tough to rely lucking out in the lottery next year. It may only be two great guys followed by a crapshoot next year and we could end up with the 5th pick even if we had the 2nd worst record.

Also, not knowing what Nash is going to do, we could take the sg at 13 (to play with him if he stays), and then try and get a later pick to get a pg in late first (Marquis Teague) or 2nd (Machado) for insurance.

If he leaves, we still probably end up tanking enough for a pretty high pick and if we felt good at sg we could take someone like James McAdoo next year or at least take bpa on the board with our pick.

[lilfishi22]

I think Kidd is an apt comparison - not career-wise, of course - but at this stage of his career.

You realize Kidd has made the All-NBA defensive team 9 times? This kid Marshall, while being a good passer, is going to get killed on defense, like Steve Nash. Only Steve Nash is one of the best shooters ever so you could live with his defensive liabilities. Marshall? Not so much.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

What the heck is going on about Marshall?..It was stated long ago; the Suns need perimeter defense and a guy who could create his own shot...definitely not Marshall, PLUS you don't go safe at this point, no more Lopez over Jordan and McGee...

Lamb and Ross are the guys who meet what we are seeking. Lamb better creator and Ross more defense and rebounding. If Ross can develope his handles and create his own shot (his workout video appears to suggest that) than he should be the pick of the two, but one will have been taken and we just take the other....done deal. Plus I think Ross has the size to post-up in the future.. I see 6'7 215 easy!!

Pick up a late pick and get QMiller and call it a day

Hit the nail on the head.

I think Ross is a pretty safe pick in that he's not an overly exciting prospect but he does tick a lot of boxes for me. Excellent defender, serviceable offensive game and with great size and athleticism. Obviously doesn't play an exciting game like Waiters or Rivers but I think he'll be a solid pro.

[bwgood77]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

What the heck is going on about Marshall?..It was stated long ago; the Suns need perimeter defense and a guy who could create his own shot...definitely not Marshall, PLUS you don't go safe at this point, no more Lopez over Jordan and McGee...

Lamb and Ross are the guys who meet what we are seeking. Lamb better creator and Ross more defense and rebounding. If Ross can develope his handles and create his own shot (his workout video appears to suggest that) than he should be the pick of the two, but one will have been taken and we just take the other....done deal. Plus I think Ross has the size to post-up in the future.. I see 6'7 215 easy!!

Pick up a late pick and get QMiller and call it a day

I agree. I've wanted Ross from the beginning and pretty much thought Lamb would be gone. The only other guy I'm really intrigued with is Waiters, so if he is there, he'd be tough to pass up. I really want no part of Rivers though, so I'm just hoping he goes ahead of us.

I like Miller too if we can get a pick to get him late.

[Gorilla Warfare]

Marshall is the Rondo of this draft, you guys need to all realize this, if we draft Marshall nobody should be upset. Yes I think 13 is too high for him but I honestly don't see the Suns try and get a 2nd pick. What would make you more upset, seeing Telfair as our starting PG or see Lamb/Ross being our 9th/10th man?

[Kerrsed]

Brett Pollakoff ‏@BrettEP: Based on Suns GM Lance Blanks' reaction to Jeremy Lamb ?s today, wouldn't be surprised if PHX drafts him if he's on the board at 13. via Twitter

Kristofer Habbas ‏@NBADraftInsider: @BrettEP He was the most cryptic about Lamb today.via Twitter

Kristofer Habbas ‏@NBADraftInsider: Pretty interesting philosophy from the #Suns, but not shocking after being really high on Markieff Morris & Iman Shumpert despite "ranking". via Twitter

Kristofer Habbas ‏@NBADraftInsider: #Suns Cont: They are not concerned with a "big board" as far as rankings. Meaning they may value guys in lower much higher than experts. via Twitter

Kristofer Habbas ‏@NBADraftInsider: Not a lot of new information from the #Suns GM Lance Blanks today. They have brought in Moultrie and Marshall twice, Lamb once. via Twitter

[bwgood77]

Those tweets make it sound as if Lamb is ranked #20 or something on big boards.

[Revived]

Marshall is the Rondo of this draft, you guys need to all realize this, if we draft Marshall nobody should be upset. Yes I think 13 is too high for him but I honestly don't see the Suns try and get a 2nd pick. What would make you more upset, seeing Telfair as our starting PG or see Lamb/Ross being our 9th/10th man?

Rondo is quick, athletic and a good defender. All that Marshall has is passing. He sucks at everything else.

[jredsaz]

Marshall is the Rondo of this draft, you guys need to all realize this, if we draft Marshall nobody should be upset. Yes I think 13 is too high for him but I honestly don't see the Suns try and get a 2nd pick. What would make you more upset, seeing Telfair as our starting PG or see Lamb/Ross being our 9th/10th man?

Rondo is quick, athletic and a good defender. All that Marshall has is passing. He sucks at everything else.

Agreed, Marshal is no Rondo but don't sell him short. He has a lot of intangibles, that are important for a young team, to go along with passing. I would really like to draft him later in the draft if they can pick up a second pick. I really think they will be looking to move in that direction. Orlando/Denver/OKC/Boston, all have been linked to moving their second round. $3 mil plus a future second might get one of those picks.

[rsavaj]

There's so much parity in this draft that I'm looking at it as kind of a win-win. Sure, we may end up passing on somebody who turns out to be a beast(it's almost guaranteed), but that doesn't mean that we won't come away with a good player.

Lamb, Marshall, Sullinger, Ross, Henson, PJ3...I'll be happy with any of those guys, TBH. They can all help us a lot.

Well...actually, PJ3 terrifies me. I don't want another Earl Clark.