Trade Deadline Countdown....December 2015

[Scutt]

What's done is done but Dragic (regardless of his age) should have been the cornerstone of this franchise. He made players better. Bledsoe should have been used as an asset and traded. And he still can and should be. I got it, some people really like Bledsoe and they went out and got his jersey but it's very misguided. As long as Bledsoe is considered this franchise's "star" player, this organization is stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

Lets be honest, Dragic was not a pure pass first point guard. He was a decent playmaker, but he looked to get his shot fist. He needs to have the right type of players surrounding him, and he needs to be the focus of the offense, to possibly put up his 2014 numbers. As is stands, the guy had one season where he and the whole team overachieved, and he put up 20 and 6, helping us to 48 wins and the 9th seed. Based on that he should be the Suns "cornerstone"? Seriously?! What players do you feel he really made better? As long as Dragic was considered this franchises "star" player, this organization would be stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

[Puff]

He has better court vision and is more of a PG than any PG the Suns have had since Nash.

That's the hard truth many people need to inhale. Ish is a better "PG" than any PG on the Suns roster (including Bledsoe and Knight). Let's face it Bledsoe is a stat stuffer (as many people like to label other players). Nothing that Bledsoe does makes the players around him better. The best season this team had within the last 6 years (when Bledsoe was on the roster) was when Bledsoe was injuried for half the season.

What's done is done but Dragic (regardless of his age) should have been the cornerstone of this franchise. He made players better. Bledsoe should have been used as an asset and traded. And he still can and should be. I got it, some people really like Bledsoe and they went out and got his jersey but it's very misguided. As long as Bledsoe is considered this franchise's "star" player, this organization is stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

Knight makes just as much bad decisions on the court as Bledsoe but what makes his value more is his shooting ability. This league has transitioned to ALL players needing the ability to shoot. NBA consistantly changes just like any sport so there will be a time where it goes back to players with post skills and dominance down in the post (this is by far the worst era EVER as far a talented big men, kinda sad, which has forced this new video game style NBA and in my opinion worst era of NBA basketball ever).

My opinion (and that's all it is) is that this team needs to be torn down to the bare bones. The Suns have some really nice role players they drafted that they should keep and play. Len, although he will never be a star, is a good quality role player, Booker is super young and is a great shooter which makes him a great value and keeper, and than you have Warren, who has talent which is worth developing.

Everyone else, needs to be traded or let go once their contract is up. Ryan Mcd has got to be held accountable for this mess he created. No need me to bring up Sarver because we all know he is the backbone of all the problems of this franchise.

BTW: Boggles my mind how a select few here still defend Sarver. Your team is a representation of the owner in any sport. Sarver is by far Top 3 in worst owners in all of sports.

That's no hard truth. If your definition of a PG is just court vision then Ish is a top PG in this league. His numbers in assist % trounce just about everyone aside from an elite few. If your definition of a PG is as an overall ball player who can do it all, which is what it has become in the modern NBA, then he gets obliterated by both of ours and many others across the league.

There is literally 0 backing that a team wins more games with Ish than Bledsoe.

Dragic looks like one of the worst contracts in basketball. He is halving Bledsoe's production while getting called out by teammates and getting paid more than Bledsoe, while being 29 and surrounded by much better current talent.

Knight is a better shooter than Bledsoe, but Bledsoe is a damn good shooter this year. Not sure how you can knock Bledsoe's shooting. And Bledsoe is more valuable than Knight because of how bad Knight is defensively imo, although the age and injury history would play a factor here also.

Not sure how you can say Len won't ever be a star. He's ahead of many a star at the same age. Only a small handful of guys walk into this league and consistently show star potential and performance at the age of 22. Len doesn't do that,but he does show small flashes, which is what most guys who become stars show at the same age. There are only so many Lebron's, Durant's, and Davis's in this world. Look at Curry, Leonard, and George, for instance. Hell, look at Nash.

It boggles my mind that there are people still advocating for Dragic here.

I really don't think fans are necessarily in love with Dragic but most really cannot stand either Bledsoe or Knight.

While both Knight and Bledsoe may be better players than Dragic based on Stats and are must younger I think they have close to zero fan appeal. Both appear to have zero personality and leadership qualities. Knight has been traded twice and Bledsoe once, why were they traded? What the trading team received was not much. Dudley in the case of Bledsoe and a bunch of misc stuff for Knight which included possibly our most valuable asset, the Laker pick. I think we got bamboozled in both trades. I certainly think they both have contracts we will regret. I have not heard any fans from Detroit or Milwaukee regretting that they traded Knight. It does not appear the Clippers have missed a step since they dumped Bledsoe's bad knees on us. At this point both of those trades can be considered horrible, not because of whom we gave up to get them but what we ended up with. We now are stuck with two overpaid unproductive point guards that almost zero Phoenix Sun fans want to watch play for their team.

Certainly Goran is overpaid but to me he was far more part of this team and town than either Knight or Bledsoe will ever be. Goran is not and will not be the man in Miami as long as Wade and Bosh are on that team. He would be the man in Phoenix and I think we would be far better off than we currently are.

Bottom line is that we not only suck, we are unlikable and unwatchable.

I really have no idea how this is going to get fixed and have serious doubts that our management is up to the task. I cannot believe that any team would want Bledsoe, Knight or Chandler on their roster unless we take back something worse.

We are in a bad place.

[Sunsdeuce]

/\. Exactly!!

Puff you the man. Perfectly said.

[Sunsdeuce]

What's done is done but Dragic (regardless of his age) should have been the cornerstone of this franchise. He made players better. Bledsoe should have been used as an asset and traded. And he still can and should be. I got it, some people really like Bledsoe and they went out and got his jersey but it's very misguided. As long as Bledsoe is considered this franchise's "star" player, this organization is stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

Lets be honest, Dragic was not a pure pass first point guard. He was a decent playmaker, but he looked to get his shot fist. He needs to have the right type of players surrounding him, and he needs to be the focus of the offense, to possibly put up his 2014 numbers. As is stands, the guy had one season where he and the whole team overachieved, and he put up 20 and 6, helping us to 48 wins and the 9th seed. Based on that he should be the Suns "cornerstone"? Seriously?! What players do you feel he really made better? As long as Dragic was considered this franchises "star" player, this organization would be stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

It's not that I think Dragic was pure passer or cornerstone (wont take a team to a championship by himself), it's that I think players enjoyed playing with him. He gave 110% every game (no one can deny that). Bledsoe gives 110% once every 10 games. Dragic was more of a leader to this team also. You are 110% correct he wasn't a cornerstone but he worked hard, was a joy to watch (not that, that is really important but he drew in the fans and was very likable). The dude was beat up every game and came back to play the next night. Dragic rarely made mistakes that cost the Suns games. He wasn't a turnover machine unlike some PGs we know. And most importantly he wasn't injury prone (cough...Bledsoe...cough). When I say he should have been the cornerstone I meant he should have been the starting piece.

Basically to sum it up Dragic could be counted on EVERY single night.

Again, this Dragic topic is old news and nothing is going to change, I only brought it up as an example of why this franchise continues to spin its wheels in the mud and goes no where with its bad decisions.

[8on]

I was just listening to Bill Simmons' podcast last week with Joe House. Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but Bill said he thinks that Milwaukee doesn't really need Jabari Parker. I was thinking about it.......I think he could be a fit here.

Watching him on my fantasy team after trading for him, I've gotta say he really doesn't do a whole hell of a lot. I hope that changes, but people should research him and how he is doing before assuming he will be great.

yes, but he's ONLY a rookie. furthermore, he's not a 3 pt shooter yet. Milwaukee is a team with zero 3 point shooters outside of Khris Middleton. as a result, he's not going to get the shots he wants. with a team like ours, where (based on percentages) we might be taking too many threes, he might be able to nail some open midrange shots.

[8on]

What's done is done but Dragic (regardless of his age) should have been the cornerstone of this franchise. He made players better. Bledsoe should have been used as an asset and traded. And he still can and should be. I got it, some people really like Bledsoe and they went out and got his jersey but it's very misguided. As long as Bledsoe is considered this franchise's "star" player, this organization is stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

no. you must be a great basketball player, on account of that short memory!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24KTBp8qQIo[/youtube]


Dragic's 2013-14 season, although stellar, was his last stellar season. he was 28 when we traded him. look up PER for guards over the age of 29.....

non-Hall of Famers

2003-04 Sam Cassell Age 34 19.8 PPG 7.3 APG .517 eFG% 22.8 PER
1989-90 Ricky Pierce Age 30 23 PPG 2.3 APG .533 eFG% 21.9 PER
2006-07 Vince Carter Age 30 25.2 PPG 4.8 APG .503 eFG% 21.8 PER
1999-00 Terrell Brandon Age 29 17.1 PPG 8.9 APG .492 eFG% 20.8 PER
1996-97 Mookie Blaylock 17.4 PPG 5.9 APG .528 eFG% 20.4 PER

That's it. Those are the only non-Hall of Fame players to record seasons above 20 PER after the age of 29. Five dudes. (Of course, our guy Steve Nash.)

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

[SideSwipe]

For the record, and not sure if it happens, I am the naysayer on here that thinks we should try to win more than we should try to tank. We still have a shot at the playoffs, though it is getting dimmer by the day. If the door completely closes on the playoffs, I will go all in on the tank and criticize McD and Sarver for not taking action sooner in a season where we could have made it in to the playoffs. This team needs to get to the playoffs. It is important for the culture, it is important for attracting quality FA's, and it is important for the fans. PHX is getting dangerously close to taking the 4th winningest franchise in history into the no man's land of no-win teams like the Clips were for years, like Minny has been for years, like the 6ers are.

We are a #11 media market in the nation, and have been able to do so well with attracting people because while we were a smaller market, at least we were a winning market. Right now we are on the verge of being tipped over the edge. Once we go to that place, it will be even harder to get back to the top. I think it will be a strategic mistake to allow ourselves to fall back into a rebuild without first getting to the playoffs. This race is wide-open this year at the bottom of the West and there are openings to squeeze into.

We need to get there to give our players a taste of what it is like, to drive their competitive passion. That is what makes the difference between rookies, young players, and veterans. Real vets have tasted victory and allowed it to whet their appetite, and that drives them to work harder. Right now, we have a lot of empty passion, but very little real heart. In defense of the posters above regarding Dragic- he was not the most skilled, but he did have great heart. That heart lifted the team and got everyone to push themselves more.

[sunshoopjunky]

Would you guys trade Knight/Tucker for Rose/1st?

This would be more of a cap relief move as Rose has under 2 years left on his deal.
If we're to tank, this would help (especially with Rose's play being so poor of late).

Or am I undervaluing Knight too much?
Rose could put butts in seats initially and become a valuable expiring next season.
And maybe we get lucky and the training staff gets him on a program to maximize his abilities again.

I dunno, just looking at ways to clear cap room. Dunno how desperate the Bulls are to dump Rose (if at all).

I think Bulls would do it. I think this is the wrong deal for us. Would rather offer Atlanta Knight for Schroder, Splitter and 2016 first. Then Call up Miami and offer them Chandler and Archie for Whiteside,McBob and Deng.

I am still on the Portis bandwagon I would give up anything not named Booker, Lin, Warren and Sun 2016 1st round draft pick to get him. Including taking on Roses contract. Unfortunately I dont think that the Bulls will let go of Portis now, that ship probably sailed in preseason but even more so with his recent play.

I remember reading that Portis did well for us in predraft workouts, I wonder what it would have taken to pick up another pick between 14 and 22 to get him during the draft. I understand why we didn't with the LaMarcus Aldridge plan. But that didn' t work out. I think we needed a better backup plan. In fact thinking along those lines that is an area that McDonough and Sarver both seems to struggle in "backup plans". From my perspective the backup plan for convincing Dragic to stay blew up as well. I think that the backup plan for the Bledsoe hold out didn't really workout either. I am not sure what the backup plan is for the Morris situation is or if they really have one. Same thing with Hornecek unless thats the deal with the 2 new assistants. I think if reports are accurate then the players picked those guys and it doesn't really sound backup planish to me.Reactive management takes a lot of luck to work out and anyone that knows the Suns knows that the gypsy is not about to let us have any luck so you would think that we would be a bit more strategic. Oh well that's my rant. Happy New year all.

[Sunsdeuce]

What's done is done but Dragic (regardless of his age) should have been the cornerstone of this franchise. He made players better. Bledsoe should have been used as an asset and traded. And he still can and should be. I got it, some people really like Bledsoe and they went out and got his jersey but it's very misguided. As long as Bledsoe is considered this franchise's "star" player, this organization is stuck with the 13th pick or worse until his contract expires or is traded.

no. you must be a great basketball player, on account of that short memory!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24KTBp8qQIo[/youtube]


Dragic's 2013-14 season, although stellar, was his last stellar season. he was 28 when we traded him. look up PER for guards over the age of 29.....

non-Hall of Famers

2003-04 Sam Cassell Age 34 19.8 PPG 7.3 APG .517 eFG% 22.8 PER
1989-90 Ricky Pierce Age 30 23 PPG 2.3 APG .533 eFG% 21.9 PER
2006-07 Vince Carter Age 30 25.2 PPG 4.8 APG .503 eFG% 21.8 PER
1999-00 Terrell Brandon Age 29 17.1 PPG 8.9 APG .492 eFG% 20.8 PER
1996-97 Mookie Blaylock 17.4 PPG 5.9 APG .528 eFG% 20.4 PER

That's it. Those are the only non-Hall of Fame players to record seasons above 20 PER after the age of 29. Five dudes. (Of course, our guy Steve Nash.)

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

[Revived]

"It's self-explanatory," Marcus Morris told the Detroit Free Press. "You see what's going on. Sorry to say it, but it's self-explanatory.

"I don't know what's going on over there. It's like a (clown) show right now."

Marcus has been open with his disdain of the Suns organization since he was traded.

"One thing about Keef is he's always positive," Marcus told the Free Press. "Some stuff might happen a little, but he's always positive. He's still looking to get out of there, still looking to go somewhere else. Right now he has to be a pro and continue to take care of his business on and off the court."

"It's not like he's going to read this and say my brother gave me some advice," Marcus told the Free Press. "We talk every day. He knows what's best for him. We all know what's best for him, and what's best for him is to continue to be professional and continue to work hard on his game.

"I know he's doing that day in, day out — regardless of the suspension and what's going on. He's a hard worker, and so he will continue to be ready when his number's called. If he gets traded, he'll be able to contribute to any team in the league."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2015/12/31/marcus-morris-weighs-suns-again/78125574/?hootPostID=8a5c4c7efd424013c6a68d75e79c0354

Marcus spitting the truth about the Suns lol.

[8on]

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

There. Hope your petite attention span is satisfied.

[8on]

"It's self-explanatory," Marcus Morris told the Detroit Free Press. "You see what's going on. Sorry to say it, but it's self-explanatory.

"I don't know what's going on over there. It's like a (clown) show right now."

Marcus has been open with his disdain of the Suns organization since he was traded.

"One thing about Keef is he's always positive," Marcus told the Free Press. "Some stuff might happen a little, but he's always positive. He's still looking to get out of there, still looking to go somewhere else. Right now he has to be a pro and continue to take care of his business on and off the court."

"It's not like he's going to read this and say my brother gave me some advice," Marcus told the Free Press. "We talk every day. He knows what's best for him. We all know what's best for him, and what's best for him is to continue to be professional and continue to work hard on his game.

"I know he's doing that day in, day out — regardless of the suspension and what's going on. He's a hard worker, and so he will continue to be ready when his number's called. If he gets traded, he'll be able to contribute to any team in the league."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2015/12/31/marcus-morris-weighs-suns-again/78125574/?hootPostID=8a5c4c7efd424013c6a68d75e79c0354

Marcus spitting the truth about the Suns lol.

you know what this feels like? an elementary school soccer team. the coach decides to cut your brother and you go on strike. "no! i won't play! i don't wanna!" folds his arms, sits there in disgust, then throws a tantrum.

how have Kieff and Marcus behaved any differently than a couple of 6 year olds on a kids' soccer team?

we'll be happy to oblige Mook and Kieff's little conspiracy, but i'd have serious doubts about acquiring either of these two. get on their bad sides, and they'll pout you a river.

[Sunsdeuce]

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

There. Hope your petite attention span is satisfied.

Lol. I put that gif there to tell you, that you completely missed the point of my post. Carry on.

[Frank Lee]

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

Tony Parker says hi

[8on]

If you're expecting a guy with a PER below 20 to lead a championship or even contending team, you're asking to be let down.

Tony Parker says hi

yes he does. only one season with a PER less than 18 since 2004. also, he's not really the leader, but he does prove my point

[bwgood77]

For the record, and not sure if it happens, I am the naysayer on here that thinks we should try to win more than we should try to tank. We still have a shot at the playoffs, though it is getting dimmer by the day. If the door completely closes on the playoffs, I will go all in on the tank and criticize McD and Sarver for not taking action sooner in a season where we could have made it in to the playoffs. This team needs to get to the playoffs. It is important for the culture, it is important for attracting quality FA's, and it is important for the fans. PHX is getting dangerously close to taking the 4th winningest franchise in history into the no man's land of no-win teams like the Clips were for years, like Minny has been for years, like the 6ers are.

We are a #11 media market in the nation, and have been able to do so well with attracting people because while we were a smaller market, at least we were a winning market. Right now we are on the verge of being tipped over the edge. Once we go to that place, it will be even harder to get back to the top. I think it will be a strategic mistake to allow ourselves to fall back into a rebuild without first getting to the playoffs. This race is wide-open this year at the bottom of the West and there are openings to squeeze into.

We need to get there to give our players a taste of what it is like, to drive their competitive passion. That is what makes the difference between rookies, young players, and veterans. Real vets have tasted victory and allowed it to whet their appetite, and that drives them to work harder. Right now, we have a lot of empty passion, but very little real heart. In defense of the posters above regarding Dragic- he was not the most skilled, but he did have great heart. That heart lifted the team and got everyone to push themselves more.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I don't want us to actively tank, but I just am not sure we have the talent with a disgruntled Markieff and now Bledsoe out. Those were our two best players last year. However, you are very right that the west is SO weak that the playoffs are not completely out of reach.

If we lose tonight, and Utah beats Portland we will be four games back, but at least we will have been through a tough stretch. It really all hinges on how Knight plays and if he chooses to get others involved and Booker and Warren keep balling. Hopefully Tyson regains interest. Like I've said I will never actively pull for us to lose, particularly when we are not mathematically out of the playoff hunt, so lets hope to see something good from Knight and our young guys tonight.

[bwgood77]

"It's self-explanatory," Marcus Morris told the Detroit Free Press. "You see what's going on. Sorry to say it, but it's self-explanatory.

"I don't know what's going on over there. It's like a (clown) show right now."

Marcus has been open with his disdain of the Suns organization since he was traded.

"One thing about Keef is he's always positive," Marcus told the Free Press. "Some stuff might happen a little, but he's always positive. He's still looking to get out of there, still looking to go somewhere else. Right now he has to be a pro and continue to take care of his business on and off the court."

"It's not like he's going to read this and say my brother gave me some advice," Marcus told the Free Press. "We talk every day. He knows what's best for him. We all know what's best for him, and what's best for him is to continue to be professional and continue to work hard on his game.

"I know he's doing that day in, day out — regardless of the suspension and what's going on. He's a hard worker, and so he will continue to be ready when his number's called. If he gets traded, he'll be able to contribute to any team in the league."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2015/12/31/marcus-morris-weighs-suns-again/78125574/?hootPostID=8a5c4c7efd424013c6a68d75e79c0354

Marcus spitting the truth about the Suns lol.

you know what this feels like? an elementary school soccer team. the coach decides to cut your brother and you go on strike. "no! i won't play! i don't wanna!" folds his arms, sits there in disgust, then throws a tantrum.

how have Kieff and Marcus behaved any differently than a couple of 6 year olds on a kids' soccer team?

we'll be happy to oblige Mook and Kieff's little conspiracy, but i'd have serious doubts about acquiring either of these two. get on their bad sides, and they'll pout you a river.

You don't need to respond to junk. Of course SF88 agrees with Marcus. They have a lot of similarities.

[Revived]

Marcus spitting the truth about the Suns lol.

you know what this feels like? an elementary school soccer team. the coach decides to cut your brother and you go on strike. "no! i won't play! i don't wanna!" folds his arms, sits there in disgust, then throws a tantrum.

how have Kieff and Marcus behaved any differently than a couple of 6 year olds on a kids' soccer team?

we'll be happy to oblige Mook and Kieff's little conspiracy, but i'd have serious doubts about acquiring either of these two. get on their bad sides, and they'll pout you a river.

You don't need to respond to junk. Of course SF88 agrees with Marcus. They have a lot of similarities.

Lol you tell people what to respond to and what not to respond to now as well? Nice.

And Marcus said Kieff wants out...yes I believe that to be the damn truth still. I know you probably still think he's a poor innocent baby just having an off year or whatever but no, not all of us have to believe that, I think he wants out of Phoenix more than anything else. As for the "clown show" um yes, the Suns are indeed that. The objective non Suns fans on the GB have all said the same in the various threads in which you even commented in so I guess all those posters and Marcus Morris have a lot of similarities too.

[bwgood77]

you know what this feels like? an elementary school soccer team. the coach decides to cut your brother and you go on strike. "no! i won't play! i don't wanna!" folds his arms, sits there in disgust, then throws a tantrum.

how have Kieff and Marcus behaved any differently than a couple of 6 year olds on a kids' soccer team?

we'll be happy to oblige Mook and Kieff's little conspiracy, but i'd have serious doubts about acquiring either of these two. get on their bad sides, and they'll pout you a river.

You don't need to respond to junk. Of course SF88 agrees with Marcus. They have a lot of similarities.

Lol you tell people what to respond to and what not to respond to now as well? Nice.

And Marcus said Kieff wants out...yes I believe that to be the damn truth still. I know you probably still think he's a poor innocent baby just having an off year or whatever but no, not all of us have to believe that, I think he wants out of Phoenix more than anything else. As for the "clown show" um yes, the Suns are indeed that. The objective non Suns fans on the GB have all said the same in the various threads in which you even commented in so I guess all those posters and Marcus Morris have a lot of similarities too.

I commented in the thread about Hornacek getting a raw deal because he constantly has an ever changing roster. You even mentioned once that he never has a consistent lineup, that is because he never has the same players for more than a couple of months.

So yes, I did think many on the general board know Hornacek has gotten kind of a raw deal with demands for the playoffs. I can also understand why players who get traded get upset with the FO though, and also when players get upset when unnecessary pieces are added. I don't respect Marcus at all though for many reasons. I would be ok with the FO moves and the patient approach to a rebuilld though if the demands were not to make the playoffs immediately. Give a FO AND coach four years in the NBA to make a difference (it typically takes longer than in the NFL) and it's fine.

[jredsaz]

I think a package of Teletovic and Tucker could get us something of value at the deadline. They could be super useful for a playoff team looking to make a run.