Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[bwgood77]

I kind of like a less expensive option like Van Vleet or a trade for Dinwiddie but I have a feeling if the Suns take Ayton they make a play for one of the expensive PG's like Wall, Lowery, or Walker (his contract isn't bad next year but if you trade for him you will have to give him a giant extension).

I guess the somewhat wild card is that Igor coached Payton and maybe he's a believer (I'm not) and they try to get a short prove it deal done with him and dedicate the money/trade assets to landing a PF to pair with Ayton.

Igor coached Payton? Do you mean Corliss Williamson coached him?

[WeekapaugGroove]

I kind of like a less expensive option like Van Vleet or a trade for Dinwiddie but I have a feeling if the Suns take Ayton they make a play for one of the expensive PG's like Wall, Lowery, or Walker (his contract isn't bad next year but if you trade for him you will have to give him a giant extension).

I guess the somewhat wild card is that Igor coached Payton and maybe he's a believer (I'm not) and they try to get a short prove it deal done with him and dedicate the money/trade assets to landing a PF to pair with Ayton.

Igor coached Payton? Do you mean Corliss Williamson coached him?

Igor coached him in 2015 as an assistant with Orlando.

[gaspar]

I kind of like a less expensive option like Van Vleet or a trade for Dinwiddie but I have a feeling if the Suns take Ayton they make a play for one of the expensive PG's like Wall, Lowery, or Walker (his contract isn't bad next year but if you trade for him you will have to give him a giant extension).

I guess the somewhat wild card is that Igor coached Payton and maybe he's a believer (I'm not) and they try to get a short prove it deal done with him and dedicate the money/trade assets to landing a PF to pair with Ayton.

I would be all over Dinwiddie for the 16 . He is on a rookie deal and the names you mention will cost s lot more money than Dinwiddie the next few years. Or Van Fleet. I forget about him and Toronto is capped out

The Suns don't need a point guard. We need a starting point guard. #16 for Dinwiddie is a huge overpay. He's nothing more than a 4th-5th guard on a roster just like like Ulis, Knight and Harrison. He will also be unrestricted FA in a year.

[DirtyDez]

Rozier is the only PG on that list.

Do they need a true PG or just a guard to play off Booker?

I get that Ryan needs to do more than acquire talent but I also want a good player

If they draft Ayton then it's in their best interest to go get a real PG to control the game and make sure the young guys are getting the ball in the right spots. Booker can initiate some offense but I don't think it's in his or the teams best interest for him to be the full time PG.

Now if they pick Doncic then one of SG's like Evans, Bradley, or Smart could make some sense because you would have enough distributors but if they draft Doncic they should probably invest the money and/or trade assets on a big instead.

Absolutely. Ayton’s upside is tremendous but he needs to be in a great situation. An experienced PG like Evans, Conley or Dragic would be key for him. Preferably Evans.

What salary numbers will Tyreke command?

[BobbieL]

Do they need a true PG or just a guard to play off Booker?

I get that Ryan needs to do more than acquire talent but I also want a good player

If they draft Ayton then it's in their best interest to go get a real PG to control the game and make sure the young guys are getting the ball in the right spots. Booker can initiate some offense but I don't think it's in his or the teams best interest for him to be the full time PG.

Now if they pick Doncic then one of SG's like Evans, Bradley, or Smart could make some sense because you would have enough distributors but if they draft Doncic they should probably invest the money and/or trade assets on a big instead.

Absolutely. Ayton’s upside is tremendous but he needs to be in a great situation. An experienced PG like Evans, Conley or Dragic would be key for him. Preferably Evans.

What salary numbers will Tyreke command?

Not a lot of teams will have money other than the MLE - maybe 3/45 or something I would guess.

What about Lowery. This guy is never right but the Suns can ship expirings and picks:

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

I’ve never liked Lowry for some reason. Just comes off very arrogant.

Even his game is very gimmicky to say the least. One of the most overrated PGs of his generation considering Raps fans also hype him up so much.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If they draft Ayton then it's in their best interest to go get a real PG to control the game and make sure the young guys are getting the ball in the right spots. Booker can initiate some offense but I don't think it's in his or the teams best interest for him to be the full time PG.

Now if they pick Doncic then one of SG's like Evans, Bradley, or Smart could make some sense because you would have enough distributors but if they draft Doncic they should probably invest the money and/or trade assets on a big instead.

Absolutely. Ayton’s upside is tremendous but he needs to be in a great situation. An experienced PG like Evans, Conley or Dragic would be key for him. Preferably Evans.

What salary numbers will Tyreke command?

Not a lot of teams will have money other than the MLE - maybe 3/45 or something I would guess.

What about Lowery. This guy is never right but the Suns can ship expirings and picks:

Read on Twitter

I'd certainly consider Lowry, but that $$$ is redonk. Only two years, though. Wouldn't be very eager to sign him to a big extension when his contract expires (which is why I'd be more interested in Kemba or Conley).

How many of the league's young point guards will surpass Lowry over the coming years? Can we grab one of those guys in free agency or more cheaply via trade?

[BobbieL]

Absolutely. Ayton’s upside is tremendous but he needs to be in a great situation. An experienced PG like Evans, Conley or Dragic would be key for him. Preferably Evans.

What salary numbers will Tyreke command?

Not a lot of teams will have money other than the MLE - maybe 3/45 or something I would guess.

What about Lowery. This guy is never right but the Suns can ship expirings and picks:

Read on Twitter

I'd certainly consider Lowry, but that $$$ is redonk. Only two years, though. Wouldn't be very eager to sign him to a big extension when his contract expires (which is why I'd be more interested in Kemba or Conley).

How many of the league's young point guards will surpass Lowry over the coming years? Can we grab one of those guys in free agency or more cheaply via trade?

that contract is pretty high - 60m+/2 years

might be able to get a guy like Tyreke Evans for that for 4 years....

so many options for Ryan and so many things on the "checklist" - i know looking for three point shooting, for a point guard, for a Center if the pick is not Ayton, that's a lot. And i understand cannot do all one offseason but you also see the value of players like PJ Tucker for defense toughness, Looney for defense - many different areas that he probably cannot fix in one offseason.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not a lot of teams will have money other than the MLE - maybe 3/45 or something I would guess.

What about Lowery. This guy is never right but the Suns can ship expirings and picks:

Read on Twitter

I'd certainly consider Lowry, but that $$$ is redonk. Only two years, though. Wouldn't be very eager to sign him to a big extension when his contract expires (which is why I'd be more interested in Kemba or Conley).

How many of the league's young point guards will surpass Lowry over the coming years? Can we grab one of those guys in free agency or more cheaply via trade?

that contract is pretty high - 60m+/2 years

might be able to get a guy like Tyreke Evans for that for 4 years....

so many options for Ryan and so many things on the "checklist" - i know looking for three point shooting, for a point guard, for a Center if the pick is not Ayton, that's a lot. And i understand cannot do all one offseason but you also see the value of players like PJ Tucker for defense toughness, Looney for defense - many different areas that he probably cannot fix in one offseason.

People keep mentioning Looney, but he didn't do a whole lot last year. Hoping Chriss can leapfrog him this year. I'd rather go for a player who provides a different skillset - Kyle Anderson or Julius Randle, for instance.

[BobbieL]

I'd certainly consider Lowry, but that $$$ is redonk. Only two years, though. Wouldn't be very eager to sign him to a big extension when his contract expires (which is why I'd be more interested in Kemba or Conley).

How many of the league's young point guards will surpass Lowry over the coming years? Can we grab one of those guys in free agency or more cheaply via trade?

that contract is pretty high - 60m+/2 years

might be able to get a guy like Tyreke Evans for that for 4 years....

so many options for Ryan and so many things on the "checklist" - i know looking for three point shooting, for a point guard, for a Center if the pick is not Ayton, that's a lot. And i understand cannot do all one offseason but you also see the value of players like PJ Tucker for defense toughness, Looney for defense - many different areas that he probably cannot fix in one offseason.

People keep mentioning Looney, but he didn't do a whole lot last year. Hoping Chriss can leapfrog him this year. I'd rather go for a player who provides a different skillset - Kyle Anderson or Julius Randle, for instance.

I guess I should clarify - a lot of the moves the Suns make in free agency will be determined - to me, if there is a market for Chandler, Dudley, Daniels to move (with draft pick) for a rotational player.

You are correct - if the Suns moves all have to be made through Free AGency as the names I mentioned the team is stuck with - Looney is far down the list.

[thamadkant]

Sign Exum
Sign Looney

Get rid of Chandler
Sign Evans


Defense, versatility and shooting

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm kind of torn on Evans. On one hand he played really well last year, I like the size he would bring to the position, and I'm not someone who thinks you need a pure pass first guy at PG. BUT even with that said I'm not sure he's really best suited to be a full time PG, I question if his 3pt shooting last year was a fluke, and while he's kept out of trouble there was always some questions about his character they would need answered before giving him a big deal. He's a tricky one.

[thamadkant]

Rubio would be fantastic next to Booker and a slasher like Jackson... Then have Mirotic next to Ayton.... Good spacing and a passer to set up everyone

[BobbieL]

Sign Exum
Sign Looney

Get rid of Chandler
Sign Evans


Defense, versatility and shooting

For Chandleer - without giving up a pick - what contracts are the Suns willing to take. So looking at teams that I think might want some cap flexibility down the road:

Charlotte - I have mentioned them so aside from them

Atlanta - Bazemore or Miles Plumlee

Magic: I know the Magic would move Biyombo - but don't want him. Fournier - or too many years, too many dollars

Portland: Meyers Leonard and Harkless or Aminu - not sure Meyers is worth taking on plus the Blazers would need to probably take Dudley

Detroit - not touching Drummond when you canget Ayton

Denver - expiring for expiring like Chandler for Wilson Chandler or Faried -

Brooklyn: Mozgov - keep walking

Wizards - maybe Ian Mahimi - but he is not good

its pretty tough to find a match without adding a pick from what I can tell

[thamadkant]

Hence Pick 16 or next seasons bucks pick is not safe from being traded.

Depends really of suns need the cap space to get better now

[Kerrsed]

I'm kind of torn on Evans. On one hand he played really well last year, I like the size he would bring to the position, and I'm not someone who thinks you need a pure pass first guy at PG. BUT even with that said I'm not sure he's really best suited to be a full time PG, I question if his 3pt shooting last year was a fluke, and while he's kept out of trouble there was always some questions about his character they would need answered before giving him a big deal. He's a tricky one.

But he's an oversized PG with a high basketball IQ, great stats, great percentages and solid defense. Former Rookie of the year. He NEEDS to play PG full time, as thats when he is at his best. First couple of seasons in SAC, played GREAT, was their PG. Once Sac figured they could switch him to SF because of his size and add in someone else to play PG (Trying to add more 3pt shots), is when he regressed.

Running the point in N'awlins, was great again. Just like Sac, they added PG's to the team and changed his role and he regressed.

Was ok as SF in Memphis, but once Conley went down with injury and Evans was running the point again, BAM...top of his game. Played so well that Memphis was trying to trade him so he wouldnt ruin their tank. Once they saw what the offers were (98% of teams in the league already have starting quality PGs), they played him a few more games before benching hi to let the tank roll on.

Its funny, the people that want Doncic so bad should be jumping at the opportunity to go after Evans in FA if we get Ayton, as he brings almost the same things to the table that they are hoping Doncic will be doing.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Rubio would be fantastic next to Booker and a slasher like Jackson... Then have Mirotic next to Ayton.... Good spacing and a passer to set up everyone

Sure. But I don't think either one of those guys will be available.


One guy who could become available is Eric Gordon if Houston needs to trim some salary. Not a real PG but kind of an interesting option next to Booker.

[Kerrsed]

Sign Exum
Sign Looney

Get rid of Chandler
Sign Evans


Defense, versatility and shooting

For Chandleer - without giving up a pick - what contracts are the Suns willing to take. So looking at teams that I think might want some cap flexibility down the road:

Charlotte - I have mentioned them so aside from them

Atlanta - Bazemore or Miles Plumlee

Magic: I know the Magic would move Biyombo - but don't want him. Fournier - or too many years, too many dollars

Portland: Meyers Leonard and Harkless or Aminu - not sure Meyers is worth taking on plus the Blazers would need to probably take Dudley

Detroit - not touching Drummond when you canget Ayton

Denver - expiring for expiring like Chandler for Wilson Chandler or Faried -

Brooklyn: Mozgov - keep walking

Wizards - maybe Ian Mahimi - but he is not good

its pretty tough to find a match without adding a pick from what I can tell

While im not the biggest Kemba fan (And think Evans could bring more to the table for us and for cheaper), i wouldnt be opposed to something like Kemba/Howard for Chandler/Warren/Chriss/#16. Kemba would fill in that starting PG spot, and Howard would be a big body to bring off the bench for Ayton. Give him good competition to go against in practice daily, and maybe could help teach him a thing or two about defense.

Sure people will have an issue with D12 like, "Oh he is trash!", but just like Chandler, he is expiring and would actually provide something on the court with the minutes given, and can you put a price on helping Ayton develop and learn from a 8× NBA All-Star and 3x Defensive Player of the Year?

Pre-Free Agency
Walker/Knight
Booker/??????
Jackson/Dudley
Bender/Peters
Ayton/Howard/Sauce

[BobbieL]

Rubio would be fantastic next to Booker and a slasher like Jackson... Then have Mirotic next to Ayton.... Good spacing and a passer to set up everyone

Sure. But I don't think either one of those guys will be available.


One guy who could become available is Eric Gordon if Houston needs to trim some salary. Not a real PG but kind of an interesting option next to Booker.

How does it work with the salary cap - say they want to sign LeBron. They have to get under the cap to sign LeBron and than can sign Paul and Capela with Bird Rights?

If that is the case - they probably need to renounce everybody but Paul and Capela. Move Tucker or Gordon , sign LeBron and than bring back Capela and Paul.

If that's the case - the Suns could get well under the cap to trade for Gordon without taking back any cap. Would love to take back Tucker and Gordon for like Daniels .

Not sure if this link to the Capulator will work but this is the Rockets..or what I tried to do with their salary cap

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm kind of torn on Evans. On one hand he played really well last year, I like the size he would bring to the position, and I'm not someone who thinks you need a pure pass first guy at PG. BUT even with that said I'm not sure he's really best suited to be a full time PG, I question if his 3pt shooting last year was a fluke, and while he's kept out of trouble there was always some questions about his character they would need answered before giving him a big deal. He's a tricky one.

But he's an oversized PG with a high basketball IQ, great stats, great percentages and solid defense. Former Rookie of the year. He NEEDS to play PG full time, as thats when he is at his best. First couple of seasons in SAC, played GREAT, was their PG. Once Sac figured they could switch him to SF because of his size and add in someone else to play PG (Trying to add more 3pt shots), is when he regressed.

Running the point in N'awlins, was great again. Just like Sac, they added PG's to the team and changed his role and he regressed.

Was ok as SF in Memphis, but once Conley went down with injury and Evans was running the point again, BAM...top of his game. Played so well that Memphis was trying to trade him so he wouldnt ruin their tank. Once they saw what the offers were (98% of teams in the league already have starting quality PGs), they played him a few more games before benching hi to let the tank roll on.

Its funny, the people that want Doncic so bad should be jumping at the opportunity to go after Evans in FA if we get Ayton, as he brings almost the same things to the table that they are hoping Doncic will be doing.

I don't know about that 'high BBIQ' statement. Prior to last year he was known as a gunner and was damn near out of the league after his injury. Like I was saying I'm not opposed to bringing him in but I'm definitely not as sold on him as you are.