Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[bwgood77]

15/10 doesn’t jump off the page.....he can shoot from the elbow, top of the key, jam it in the paint over anyone and pass out it trouble, is our best player, and we don’t get him the ball enough, and he’s not having a historic rookie season?

You guys are asking him to be fully polished on day 1. News flash: AD wasn’t, Towns wasn’t, Cousins wasn’t, Embiid wasn’t, no one is. It takes a few years. He’s awfully impressive at this point in his career.

He's having a great offensive season and rebounding well, which I expected. Defense is terrible, but that was expected by many as well. So no real complaints based on expectations. Passing is better than I expected.

[sleepyvato]

Watch on YouTube

[JMac1]

If you are worried about this guy, you have issues. I truly believe his rim protection will pick up when the ticky tack foul calls go down. I watched him come out crouched and ready to rotate and rim protect right away. He looked ready, then two ticky tack foul calls later, it was olay!

Team guy and talented. He Bridges and Booker I am not concerned about outside of the needed growth all young players have to achieve.

[bwgood77]

Ayton got only other mention here other than Doncic...

2. Who is your Rookie of the Year so far?
Snellings: Deandre Ayton, surpassing Luka Doncic, Trae Young and an all-around solid class. Ayton controls the paint on offense but also has the touch and passing ability to step out of the lane, giving the Suns an interior anchor to build around on both ends of the floor.

Arnovitz: Statistically, Ayton has a claim on the award because he's filling up the box score on a nightly basis as a capable starter on an awful team. But I like Doncic and his stylings as a big playmaker who has talent to display from every spot on the floor. He's shooting 38 percent from beyond the arc, generating offense for teammates, and hasn't been the defensive liability some projected (and has defended his position better than Ayton).

Young: Doncic. He has met the hype, and in some ways, exceeded it. And really, at this point you have to wonder if he could be in position to make an All-Star team. The Mavs have been quietly solid and Doncic is putting up progressively impressive nightly numbers.

Pelton: Doncic. While Young has been more efficient than expected and Ayton has put up big box-score stats, Doncic has been -- as expected -- the most valuable rookie thus far. He's playing more minutes (33.9) than any other first-year player and has been impressively efficient given his large role in the Dallas offense (25 percent usage rate).

MacMahon: Doncic, and it's really not close. He's leading rookies in scoring (19.3 points per game), ranks second in assists (4.1) and third in rebounds (6.9). The list of rookies who have averaged 19/6/4: Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Sidney Wicks, Larry Bird and Grant Hill. Each of those players won Rookie of the Year -- and none of them were as young as Doncic, who has a swagger and fearlessness that just isn't seen in NBA teens. The only possible argument against Doncic is that he shouldn't qualify as a rookie due to his extensive experience playing high-level pro ball with Real Madrid.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25340532/nba-awards-5-5-debate-lebron-mvp-frontrunner

And a mention of a guy I liked who would fit well at the 4 for us right now..

Pelton: Gary Clark isn't realistically going to challenge for Rookie of the Year, but the undrafted forward from Cincinnati could be a contender for an All-Rookie spot because of his key role in the Rockets' rotation -- one that was previously ticketed for Carmelo Anthony. Because Houston has played so much better with Clark on the court, he's one of only three rookies with a positive rating in RPM in at least 50 minutes. (Mikal Bridges and Mitchell Robinson are the other two.)

Can't believe we took King with him still on the board.

[JMac1]

Ayton got only other mention here other than Doncic...

2. Who is your Rookie of the Year so far?
Snellings: Deandre Ayton, surpassing Luka Doncic, Trae Young and an all-around solid class. Ayton controls the paint on offense but also has the touch and passing ability to step out of the lane, giving the Suns an interior anchor to build around on both ends of the floor.

Arnovitz: Statistically, Ayton has a claim on the award because he's filling up the box score on a nightly basis as a capable starter on an awful team. But I like Doncic and his stylings as a big playmaker who has talent to display from every spot on the floor. He's shooting 38 percent from beyond the arc, generating offense for teammates, and hasn't been the defensive liability some projected (and has defended his position better than Ayton).

Young: Doncic. He has met the hype, and in some ways, exceeded it. And really, at this point you have to wonder if he could be in position to make an All-Star team. The Mavs have been quietly solid and Doncic is putting up progressively impressive nightly numbers.

Pelton: Doncic. While Young has been more efficient than expected and Ayton has put up big box-score stats, Doncic has been -- as expected -- the most valuable rookie thus far. He's playing more minutes (33.9) than any other first-year player and has been impressively efficient given his large role in the Dallas offense (25 percent usage rate).

MacMahon: Doncic, and it's really not close. He's leading rookies in scoring (19.3 points per game), ranks second in assists (4.1) and third in rebounds (6.9). The list of rookies who have averaged 19/6/4: Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Sidney Wicks, Larry Bird and Grant Hill. Each of those players won Rookie of the Year -- and none of them were as young as Doncic, who has a swagger and fearlessness that just isn't seen in NBA teens. The only possible argument against Doncic is that he shouldn't qualify as a rookie due to his extensive experience playing high-level pro ball with Real Madrid.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25340532/nba-awards-5-5-debate-lebron-mvp-frontrunner

And a mention of a guy I liked who would fit well at the 4 for us right now..

Pelton: Gary Clark isn't realistically going to challenge for Rookie of the Year, but the undrafted forward from Cincinnati could be a contender for an All-Rookie spot because of his key role in the Rockets' rotation -- one that was previously ticketed for Carmelo Anthony. Because Houston has played so much better with Clark on the court, he's one of only three rookies with a positive rating in RPM in at least 50 minutes. (Mikal Bridges and Mitchell Robinson are the other two.)

Can't believe we took King with him still on the board.

Thank God the award has nothing to do with who is actually the better player.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ayton got only other mention here other than Doncic...

2. Who is your Rookie of the Year so far?
Snellings: Deandre Ayton, surpassing Luka Doncic, Trae Young and an all-around solid class. Ayton controls the paint on offense but also has the touch and passing ability to step out of the lane, giving the Suns an interior anchor to build around on both ends of the floor.

Arnovitz: Statistically, Ayton has a claim on the award because he's filling up the box score on a nightly basis as a capable starter on an awful team. But I like Doncic and his stylings as a big playmaker who has talent to display from every spot on the floor. He's shooting 38 percent from beyond the arc, generating offense for teammates, and hasn't been the defensive liability some projected (and has defended his position better than Ayton).

Young: Doncic. He has met the hype, and in some ways, exceeded it. And really, at this point you have to wonder if he could be in position to make an All-Star team. The Mavs have been quietly solid and Doncic is putting up progressively impressive nightly numbers.

Pelton: Doncic. While Young has been more efficient than expected and Ayton has put up big box-score stats, Doncic has been -- as expected -- the most valuable rookie thus far. He's playing more minutes (33.9) than any other first-year player and has been impressively efficient given his large role in the Dallas offense (25 percent usage rate).

MacMahon: Doncic, and it's really not close. He's leading rookies in scoring (19.3 points per game), ranks second in assists (4.1) and third in rebounds (6.9). The list of rookies who have averaged 19/6/4: Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Sidney Wicks, Larry Bird and Grant Hill. Each of those players won Rookie of the Year -- and none of them were as young as Doncic, who has a swagger and fearlessness that just isn't seen in NBA teens. The only possible argument against Doncic is that he shouldn't qualify as a rookie due to his extensive experience playing high-level pro ball with Real Madrid.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25340532/nba-awards-5-5-debate-lebron-mvp-frontrunner

And a mention of a guy I liked who would fit well at the 4 for us right now..

Pelton: Gary Clark isn't realistically going to challenge for Rookie of the Year, but the undrafted forward from Cincinnati could be a contender for an All-Rookie spot because of his key role in the Rockets' rotation -- one that was previously ticketed for Carmelo Anthony. Because Houston has played so much better with Clark on the court, he's one of only three rookies with a positive rating in RPM in at least 50 minutes. (Mikal Bridges and Mitchell Robinson are the other two.)

Can't believe we took King with him still on the board.

Thank God the award has nothing to do with who is actually the better player.

Doncic is better right now. Ayton could be better down the line if he tightens up a couple areas.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

If you are worried about this guy, you have issues. I truly believe his rim protection will pick up when the ticky tack foul calls go down. I watched him come out crouched and ready to rotate and rim protect right away. He looked ready, then two ticky tack foul calls later, it was olay!

Team guy and talented. He Bridges and Booker I am not concerned about outside of the needed growth all young players have to achieve.

What ticky tack fouls? He's been in foul trouble twice. He has a lower foul rate than star bigs like Embiid, KAT and Rudy. It's not a foul issue for him. He's just not getting to spots in time to protect the rim because he doesn't have that defensive awareness so he's not able to react fast enough. He's flashed some rim protection from time to time but he's just never been much of a rim protector.

Fouls are a much, much smaller issue than you think

[JMac1]

If you are worried about this guy, you have issues. I truly believe his rim protection will pick up when the ticky tack foul calls go down. I watched him come out crouched and ready to rotate and rim protect right away. He looked ready, then two ticky tack foul calls later, it was olay!

Team guy and talented. He Bridges and Booker I am not concerned about outside of the needed growth all young players have to achieve.

What ticky tack fouls? He's been in foul trouble twice. He has a lower foul rate than star bigs like Embiid, KAT and Rudy. It's not a foul issue for him. He's just not getting to spots in time to protect the rim because he doesn't have that defensive awareness so he's not able to react fast enough. He's flashed some rim protection from time to time but he's just never been much of a rim protector.

Fouls are a much, much smaller issue than you think

Go look at the first two fouls from the last game.

[JMac1]

Ayton got only other mention here other than Doncic...



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25340532/nba-awards-5-5-debate-lebron-mvp-frontrunner

And a mention of a guy I liked who would fit well at the 4 for us right now..



Can't believe we took King with him still on the board.

Thank God the award has nothing to do with who is actually the better player.

Doncic is better right now. Ayton could be better down the line if he tightens up a couple areas.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I disagree.

[lilfishi22]

If you are worried about this guy, you have issues. I truly believe his rim protection will pick up when the ticky tack foul calls go down. I watched him come out crouched and ready to rotate and rim protect right away. He looked ready, then two ticky tack foul calls later, it was olay!

Team guy and talented. He Bridges and Booker I am not concerned about outside of the needed growth all young players have to achieve.

What ticky tack fouls? He's been in foul trouble twice. He has a lower foul rate than star bigs like Embiid, KAT and Rudy. It's not a foul issue for him. He's just not getting to spots in time to protect the rim because he doesn't have that defensive awareness so he's not able to react fast enough. He's flashed some rim protection from time to time but he's just never been much of a rim protector.

Fouls are a much, much smaller issue than you think

Go look at the first two fouls from the last game.

I'm looking at the entire season.

[Jstock12]

Ayton got only other mention here other than Doncic...

2. Who is your Rookie of the Year so far?
Snellings: Deandre Ayton, surpassing Luka Doncic, Trae Young and an all-around solid class. Ayton controls the paint on offense but also has the touch and passing ability to step out of the lane, giving the Suns an interior anchor to build around on both ends of the floor.

Arnovitz: Statistically, Ayton has a claim on the award because he's filling up the box score on a nightly basis as a capable starter on an awful team. But I like Doncic and his stylings as a big playmaker who has talent to display from every spot on the floor. He's shooting 38 percent from beyond the arc, generating offense for teammates, and hasn't been the defensive liability some projected (and has defended his position better than Ayton).

Young: Doncic. He has met the hype, and in some ways, exceeded it. And really, at this point you have to wonder if he could be in position to make an All-Star team. The Mavs have been quietly solid and Doncic is putting up progressively impressive nightly numbers.

Pelton: Doncic. While Young has been more efficient than expected and Ayton has put up big box-score stats, Doncic has been -- as expected -- the most valuable rookie thus far. He's playing more minutes (33.9) than any other first-year player and has been impressively efficient given his large role in the Dallas offense (25 percent usage rate).

MacMahon: Doncic, and it's really not close. He's leading rookies in scoring (19.3 points per game), ranks second in assists (4.1) and third in rebounds (6.9). The list of rookies who have averaged 19/6/4: Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Elgin Baylor, Sidney Wicks, Larry Bird and Grant Hill. Each of those players won Rookie of the Year -- and none of them were as young as Doncic, who has a swagger and fearlessness that just isn't seen in NBA teens. The only possible argument against Doncic is that he shouldn't qualify as a rookie due to his extensive experience playing high-level pro ball with Real Madrid.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25340532/nba-awards-5-5-debate-lebron-mvp-frontrunner

And a mention of a guy I liked who would fit well at the 4 for us right now..

Pelton: Gary Clark isn't realistically going to challenge for Rookie of the Year, but the undrafted forward from Cincinnati could be a contender for an All-Rookie spot because of his key role in the Rockets' rotation -- one that was previously ticketed for Carmelo Anthony. Because Houston has played so much better with Clark on the court, he's one of only three rookies with a positive rating in RPM in at least 50 minutes. (Mikal Bridges and Mitchell Robinson are the other two.)

Can't believe we took King with him still on the board.

Top5 rookies in my opinion (all pretty close to each other):

1a. JJJ
1b. Doncic
2. Ayton
3a. Miles Bridges
3b. WCJ

Honorable mentions: Bagley, SGA, Young, Robinson

While Doncic is a huge part of a 8-9 team, JJJ is a very big part of a 12-5 team. JJJ's offense is adequate, but his defense (especially rim-protection) is a game-changer. As mentioned previously, he lowers his opponent's FG% by 10% around the basket. He and Gasol compliment each other really well. If only Marc was 7-8 years younger, that would be a scary front-court duo.

[JMac1]

What ticky tack fouls? He's been in foul trouble twice. He has a lower foul rate than star bigs like Embiid, KAT and Rudy. It's not a foul issue for him. He's just not getting to spots in time to protect the rim because he doesn't have that defensive awareness so he's not able to react fast enough. He's flashed some rim protection from time to time but he's just never been much of a rim protector.

Fouls are a much, much smaller issue than you think

Go look at the first two fouls from the last game.

I'm looking at the entire season.

He is learning.... Trying to navigate how to play aggressive on defense in the NBA isn't easy with the inconsistencies of a NBA Ref.

[lilfishi22]

Go look at the first two fouls from the last game.

I'm looking at the entire season.

He is learning.... Trying to navigate how to play aggressive on defense in the NBA isn't easy with the inconsistencies of a NBA Ref.

I'm saying either refs aren't calling fouls on him as much as a lot of other rim protectors (ie foul troubles isn't what's slowing him down) or he's just not in the spot to make a defensive play at all that *could* draw a defensive foul.

He's learning and it's not any easy skill to learn especially when he's already this far behind but he's got all the tools to be a fantastic rim protector, even an average one. I'm just not as optimistic because I've seen far too many athletes with all the physical tools to be a great defender but never become one because they just lacked the mental part of it.

[bwgood77]

I'm saying either refs aren't calling fouls on him as much as a lot of other rim protectors (ie foul troubles isn't what's slowing him down) or he's just not in the spot to make a defensive play at all that *could* draw a defensive foul.

He's learning and it's not any easy skill to learn especially when he's already this far behind but he's got all the tools to be a fantastic rim protector, even an average one. I'm just not as optimistic because I've seen far too many athletes with all the physical tools to be a great defender but never become one because they just lacked the mental part of it.

I won't count out that he will become an ok rim protector or help defender. There have been a couple moments in the past few games he showed a sign to help a bit. But I've seen excuses for over a year now..."wrong position, coaching is the problem, didn't have good guard defenders who allowed guys to penetrate, and now it's ticky tack fouls". One of JJJ's biggest issues in college was fouling though it's not stopping him from being a great rim protector and help defender. He's just got to do it.

He will always put up his numbers, as I expected, which is why I had him slightly ahead of JJJ, but with him and Booker and the defensive inadequacies, if they are not fixed, or vastly improved, our ceiling is probably capped as a borderline playoff team, but not if the conference stays this tough. And that would be needing to surround them with all guys who can compensate for those weaknesses..like GREAT defenders.

Being Booker's 4th year, it's far less likely he improves, so hopefully with Ayton it just comes with time and wanting it, but I hope he has that desire..everyone says he listens and soaks stuff up and it's still early so he has plenty of time. He hasn't been around basketball nearly as long as someone like JJJ.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah I had him ahead of JJJ for that exact reason. I was reasonably confident that he would put up a comfortable 20/10 on elite effieincy before the end of his rookie contract. I was cnfident that JJJ could play D but what help him back was foul troubles in college and I wasn't sure that he'll be more than a 15ppg scorer or great rebounder in the league.

[JMac1]

I'm saying either refs aren't calling fouls on him as much as a lot of other rim protectors (ie foul troubles isn't what's slowing him down) or he's just not in the spot to make a defensive play at all that *could* draw a defensive foul.

He's learning and it's not any easy skill to learn especially when he's already this far behind but he's got all the tools to be a fantastic rim protector, even an average one. I'm just not as optimistic because I've seen far too many athletes with all the physical tools to be a great defender but never become one because they just lacked the mental part of it.

I won't count out that he will become an ok rim protector or help defender. There have been a couple moments in the past few games he showed a sign to help a bit. But I've seen excuses for over a year now..."wrong position, coaching is the problem, didn't have good guard defenders who allowed guys to penetrate, and now it's ticky tack fouls". One of JJJ's biggest issues in college was fouling though it's not stopping him from being a great rim protector and help defender. He's just got to do it.

He will always put up his numbers, as I expected, which is why I had him slightly ahead of JJJ, but with him and Booker and the defensive inadequacies, if they are not fixed, or vastly improved, our ceiling is probably capped as a borderline playoff team, but not if the conference stays this tough. And that would be needing to surround them with all guys who can compensate for those weaknesses..like GREAT defenders.

Being Booker's 4th year, it's far less likely he improves, so hopefully with Ayton it just comes with time and wanting it, but I hope he has that desire..everyone says he listens and soaks stuff up and it's still early so he has plenty of time. He hasn't been around basketball nearly as long as someone like JJJ.

I guess it depends on the individual. If you are trying to understand, its a reason; if you are trying to blame, its an excuse. To each his own. I am not going to go back and forth on how the game is called and the effects it has on a player's ability to play defense with anyone on this planet. If you believe that a ref cannot dictate how aggressive a player can or cannot be then I am not having that discussion. There are many variables to Ayton subpar defense not just "he lacks a motor or BBIQ." When a the guys says, I am trying to understand how to play and what a foul is and you ignore it, that's on you.

[bwgood77]

I'm saying either refs aren't calling fouls on him as much as a lot of other rim protectors (ie foul troubles isn't what's slowing him down) or he's just not in the spot to make a defensive play at all that *could* draw a defensive foul.

He's learning and it's not any easy skill to learn especially when he's already this far behind but he's got all the tools to be a fantastic rim protector, even an average one. I'm just not as optimistic because I've seen far too many athletes with all the physical tools to be a great defender but never become one because they just lacked the mental part of it.

I won't count out that he will become an ok rim protector or help defender. There have been a couple moments in the past few games he showed a sign to help a bit. But I've seen excuses for over a year now..."wrong position, coaching is the problem, didn't have good guard defenders who allowed guys to penetrate, and now it's ticky tack fouls". One of JJJ's biggest issues in college was fouling though it's not stopping him from being a great rim protector and help defender. He's just got to do it.

He will always put up his numbers, as I expected, which is why I had him slightly ahead of JJJ, but with him and Booker and the defensive inadequacies, if they are not fixed, or vastly improved, our ceiling is probably capped as a borderline playoff team, but not if the conference stays this tough. And that would be needing to surround them with all guys who can compensate for those weaknesses..like GREAT defenders.

Being Booker's 4th year, it's far less likely he improves, so hopefully with Ayton it just comes with time and wanting it, but I hope he has that desire..everyone says he listens and soaks stuff up and it's still early so he has plenty of time. He hasn't been around basketball nearly as long as someone like JJJ.

I guess it depends on the individual. If you are trying to understand, its a reason; if you are trying to blame, its an excuse. To each his own. I am not going to go back and forth on how the game is called and the effects it has on a player's ability to play defense with anyone on this planet. If you believe that a ref cannot dictate how aggressive a player can or cannot be then I am not having that discussion. There are many variables to Ayton subpar defense not just "he lacks a motor or BBIQ." When a the guys says, I am trying to understand how to play and what a foul is and you ignore it, that's on you.

No doubt the ref can have an impact. But I've heard various excuses in his time at UA and here as to why he couldn't protect the rim or play help D nearly as well as the other top C prospects. Fouling has never really been a big problem for him. I know you didn't watch him at UA but he had the same issue there which is why teams exploited it.

Like I said, it's still early, and has time, so it's up to him. I won't be one to make excuses for him though as I see that enough.

[SuperSunsFan]

anyone noticed that Ayton has a scar in his brow that resembles Tony Montana's in Scarface which is quite badazz

[lilfishi22]

I'm saying either refs aren't calling fouls on him as much as a lot of other rim protectors (ie foul troubles isn't what's slowing him down) or he's just not in the spot to make a defensive play at all that *could* draw a defensive foul.

He's learning and it's not any easy skill to learn especially when he's already this far behind but he's got all the tools to be a fantastic rim protector, even an average one. I'm just not as optimistic because I've seen far too many athletes with all the physical tools to be a great defender but never become one because they just lacked the mental part of it.

I won't count out that he will become an ok rim protector or help defender. There have been a couple moments in the past few games he showed a sign to help a bit. But I've seen excuses for over a year now..."wrong position, coaching is the problem, didn't have good guard defenders who allowed guys to penetrate, and now it's ticky tack fouls". One of JJJ's biggest issues in college was fouling though it's not stopping him from being a great rim protector and help defender. He's just got to do it.

He will always put up his numbers, as I expected, which is why I had him slightly ahead of JJJ, but with him and Booker and the defensive inadequacies, if they are not fixed, or vastly improved, our ceiling is probably capped as a borderline playoff team, but not if the conference stays this tough. And that would be needing to surround them with all guys who can compensate for those weaknesses..like GREAT defenders.

Being Booker's 4th year, it's far less likely he improves, so hopefully with Ayton it just comes with time and wanting it, but I hope he has that desire..everyone says he listens and soaks stuff up and it's still early so he has plenty of time. He hasn't been around basketball nearly as long as someone like JJJ.

I guess it depends on the individual. If you are trying to understand, its a reason; if you are trying to blame, its an excuse. To each his own. I am not going to go back and forth on how the game is called and the effects it has on a player's ability to play defense with anyone on this planet. If you believe that a ref cannot dictate how aggressive a player can or cannot be then I am not having that discussion. There are many variables to Ayton subpar defense not just "he lacks a motor or BBIQ." When a the guys says, I am trying to understand how to play and what a foul is and you ignore it, that's on you.

Of course refs can have an impact but every player has to deal with the same refs and the same kind of reffing. Over an 82 game season, those 'bad' reffing games gets averaged out unless you think refs are specifically targeting Ayton in each and every game. Like if JJJ has foul trouble and it's consistent, I don't take it as refs are targeting him, I just take it as there's some things he needs to work on to get around the calls. That's why I take the 'reffing' factor out of it. To me, reffing is a much smaller determinant of good defensive ability than lack of motor and BBIQ because every players has to deal with the same reffing. But every player has different motors and BBIQ so the reffing becomes more of a constant rather than a significant determining factor. On a game to game basis, of course there are inconsistent reffing. Sometimes you get refs who happen to call a game super tight (ticky tack fouls) and others when they let a lot of things go so but over the season, it really just averages out.

[JMac1]

I won't count out that he will become an ok rim protector or help defender. There have been a couple moments in the past few games he showed a sign to help a bit. But I've seen excuses for over a year now..."wrong position, coaching is the problem, didn't have good guard defenders who allowed guys to penetrate, and now it's ticky tack fouls". One of JJJ's biggest issues in college was fouling though it's not stopping him from being a great rim protector and help defender. He's just got to do it.

He will always put up his numbers, as I expected, which is why I had him slightly ahead of JJJ, but with him and Booker and the defensive inadequacies, if they are not fixed, or vastly improved, our ceiling is probably capped as a borderline playoff team, but not if the conference stays this tough. And that would be needing to surround them with all guys who can compensate for those weaknesses..like GREAT defenders.

Being Booker's 4th year, it's far less likely he improves, so hopefully with Ayton it just comes with time and wanting it, but I hope he has that desire..everyone says he listens and soaks stuff up and it's still early so he has plenty of time. He hasn't been around basketball nearly as long as someone like JJJ.

I guess it depends on the individual. If you are trying to understand, its a reason; if you are trying to blame, its an excuse. To each his own. I am not going to go back and forth on how the game is called and the effects it has on a player's ability to play defense with anyone on this planet. If you believe that a ref cannot dictate how aggressive a player can or cannot be then I am not having that discussion. There are many variables to Ayton subpar defense not just "he lacks a motor or BBIQ." When a the guys says, I am trying to understand how to play and what a foul is and you ignore it, that's on you.

Of course refs can have an impact but every player has to deal with the same refs and the same kind of reffing. Over an 82 game season, those 'bad' reffing games gets averaged out unless you think refs are specifically targeting Ayton in each and every game. Like if JJJ has foul trouble and it's consistent, I don't take it as refs are targeting him, I just take it as there's some things he needs to work on to get around the calls. That's why I take the 'reffing' factor out of it. To me, reffing is a much smaller determinant of good defensive ability than lack of motor and BBIQ because every players has to deal with the same reffing. But every player has different motors and BBIQ so the reffing becomes more of a constant rather than a significant determining factor. On a game to game basis, of course there are inconsistent reffing. Sometimes you get refs who happen to call a game super tight (ticky tack fouls) and others when they let a lot of things go so but over the season, it really just averages out.

If there is such a thing as Superstar calls and rookie calls and you want to take that out of your equation on why someone plays better D or worse D specifically a rookie, thats your choice. You have to look at it holistically, not in your own personal vacuum.

Someone posted a video on every foul call on Embiid against us on the GB. You can either ignore like some or go, wow. Ayton wasn't allowed to "bang" with Embiid.

Also, I never EVER used the term targeting.

reffing is a much smaller determinant of good defensive ability than lack of motor and BBIQ because every players has to deal with the same reffing.

Reffing directly effects your "motor" or lack thereof. Its not the only problem for Ayton, but it is one of them. If you want to see an improvement on his defense, he is going to have to be allowed to have more contact on D.