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NBA Draft 2024

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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#501 » by Saberestar » Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:20 pm

An interesting long interview here:

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2024/06/19/bronny-james-tyler-kolek-phoenix-suns-workout-nba-draft/74146998007/
Marquette University senior point guard Tyler Kolek is scheduled to have a workout Thursday with the Phoenix Suns as he’s looked to meet with “eight to 10” teams.

The Suns have the 22nd overall pick in the first round of next week’s NBA draft in New York.

“It’s like the price of admission,” Kolek said in a 1-on-1 interview Tuesday evening with The Arizona Republic. “I’m not one of those guys who is going to workout for 15 or 20 teams. I’m being very specific on who I want to work out with.”
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#502 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:21 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Givony: "NBA teams that I talk to say they cannot get Bronny James into their building. Teams that are drafting in the late 20s and the 30s. The Phoenix Suns have a second workout scheduled with Bronny later this week but other than that we have not seen any NBA team be able to work him out."

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/OzmPZWJGHe



This has to be all in the ploy to make the Lakers take him at 17, It benefits us either way. Jones is a loyal friend to Lebron and thus probably has a friendship with Rich Paul. We get him drafted at 17 and maybe get a better vet min guy.. MAYBE!?!? Also, if the Lakers are forced to do that, it leaves another prospect on the board.


It's not a ploy to get the Flakers to take bronny at 17 though. It's just another Lebron James/ Klutch mind game to try and boost bronnys' percieved value so some teams that otherwise wouldn't have considered him outside of the 40-50s ranges think there's something to him that they may have missed and would now reconsider taking him.with their first.

James/ Klutch first floated out the obvious BS premise that he'd leave the Flakers and a max offer to just to play with bronny on whatever team drafts him early in the first round. But most easily saw through that leverage trick.


So now, Lebron and Klutch are using their ever loyal puppet stooge in Jones to promote more false narratives just to try again to boost bronnys' percieved value range by putting out reports of a 2nd workout with us picking at 22, and the clever reports of teams trying unsuccessfully to schedule workouts with Bronny, in a psychological ploy to make it seem like teams are actually interested in him.as a first round prospect, when really no specific teams are stating this or putting out these reports aside from us.

If other teams were actually genuinely interested in bronny as a 1st round prospect, then you'd hear about those specific teams having workouts. The reason you only hear about us and the Flakers workouts is simply because other team's don't have genuine interest in him as a first round pick and James and Klutch have instructed their puppet lackey James Jones to put out these reports to help generate the perception of interest to try and escalate his value as a percieved first round prospect.

What's truly troubling is how eagerly and energetically Jones jumps at every Lebron directive, but when it comes to actually doing his job as our GM, he puts in close to no effort, energy or interest for the draft or free agency to make us better.


It's almost like he's a double agent or something prioritizing the Flakers and Lebrons'/ Klutchs' interests at the expense of our franchise. He gas plenty of effort and willingness to assertively help Lebron, but next to no legitimate interests in helping our franchise get truly better by the draft or free agency, etc.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#503 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jun 19, 2024 3:32 pm

King4Day wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:

This worries me to no end. How does not doing any work outs with any teams, let alone two with the Suns, help Bronny or the Suns unless we're serious about taking him. I've seen the narrative being spun that Bronny/Rich Paul is using us for leverage...ok but how?


Part of me wonders if the Suns told Rich Paul they would take him if he's left undrafted.
It does Bronny no good to not workout for other teams unless his people know he stinks, and he'll only look worse when working out with other teams.

Or, the Suns have a trade lined up to move back a few spots where they'll nab a 2nd rounder.

I wouldn't be happy if we did that and got him with a pick in the 40's/50's as I have to believe there are better prospects.

That would certainly soften the blow slightly taking him with a late 2nd pick but quite frankly, I consider drafting Bronny at all with any pick a stretch. IMO he's just not an NBA talent right now and drafting him with some idea that it would get us closer to Lebron pretty head scratching

All this just worries the hell out of me because I don't believe Lebron is coming and it would be a monumental waste of a draft asset taking Bronny
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#504 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:02 pm

My closing response to BW Goods' above response about Ryan Dunn:

bwgood77 wrote:In response to what I've read. You start with we are not and won't be a contender in the next 2 years and will have to address some things. In 2 years our window with these stars is probably gone.

I don't agree with the "one guy on the court doesn't need to shoot because we have multiple offensive weapons". Whoever is on the court besides the big 3 who will get doubled NEEDS to make them pay like Allen did. Now if we have lights out 3 pt shooting C, it would help a little, but ideally you want all guys who can shoot. Guys that can't very rarely play in the NBA for long.

OKC didn't take a major step until Lu Dort could finally hit 3s at a 40% rate. Of course they have other young guys getting better but Dort hitting shots is another big part of it.

Probably not worth discussing though, as I see extremely little chance we draft Dunn anyway.


Yes! I don't believe that we'll be a legit championship contenders within the next two years without addressing the obvious glaring weaknesses we've carried for multiple seasons now ( those discussed here ad nauseam). And yes, I can also agree that within two years our competitive window with these 3 stars will likely be closed too. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we can't start building our roster out correctly for the future. With the correct complimentary pieces to support a core of Booker and Beal beyond the KD years.

And post KD, we'll need elite utility players that won't take the ball out of Booker and Beal's hands on offense anyways, But can still contribute supportively and offer impact even if that's mostly only defensive to start. Complimentary players with utility skillsets and elite outlier talents are still important to help support star casts.

Also it's perfectly fine to have whatever opinions or perspectives you want in regards to how best to correctly build out our team competitively. The idea that whoever is on the court will get doubled is trivial to me because again, even if they leave Dunn open to double KD, that'd still leave Dunn is still a great cutter, an underrated passer, and an elite explosive athlete who can finish above and through opponents. So IF they leave Dunn to double any of our stars, Dunn can cut to the rim successfully, and find another open option, as defenses collapse to stop his drives/ cutting or lobs. Or he can use his elite vertical athleticism to be a lob threat from whoever's leaving him to double.

There'll be a lot of creative options from any decent coaching staff to still create opportunities for him in these anticipated situations. After all, when you can expect or anticipate specific situations based on scouting reports or past history of play, you can counter-strategize easily enough to create other opportunities. And who's to say we can't get a " lights out" type floor spacing center option from the draft or free agency? There are these types of 4/5s scattered throughout both the drafts' ranges as well as unsigned free agents and potential trades. Our front office only needs to be assertive for a change honestly.

And sure, having shooters on the floor is important. But at the same time, defense is equally as important if you want to win and be competitive in the postseason or in the regular season. Just look at the Timberwolves and how they manhandled us fairly easily and closed out the champion Nuggets too, primarily due to their elite defense that shut down our offensive capabilities and limited and frustrated Denver too. And yet we had no ability to slow down/shut down their players offensively because we had no legitimate high-end lockdown defensive options to even throw at them. Also, if players like Herb Jones (who shot similarly as badly), Matisse Thybulle, Lou Dortz, or even older past players like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Tony Allen were never given a chance because of their offensive limitations entering the league, then we might never have known how great those players would end up with some playing key roles in helping their teams to a championship too. Basketball is not a one-dimensional game as much as some portray it to be. Sure the object of the game is to put the ball in the basket as Jones suggested in simplest premise, BUT................just as important is being able to slow down or even stop and frustrate your opposition from effectively doing that too. It's great and entertaining to have an inoffensive flame thrower, but equally important to also have an extinguisher that can slow or put out that fire too!

Boston who was so dominant and just won the championship, shot great and made a ton of threes! But they are predominantly a dominant defensive team across the board, and that's the foundation of their strength even over their three-point barrages. Denver is elite offensively but won their championship with key play from players on their team contributing in key defensive roles too (brown, KCP, Gordon). Even with the offense being viewed at a premium, the defense has significant underlying value! There's a reason the long-time saying still holds true! "offense wins games but defense wins championships"! Luka was/is a great offensive star, but Boston shut down the Mavs offensively and significantly limited Doncics' effectiveness and offensive dominance with defense. Otherwise, we might be having different discussions around the Mavs right now with Doncic parading and peacocking around with a championship! But strong defense humbled him and the Mavs to the point of a gentleman's sweep! Lastly, I agree with you that the Suns will very likely overlook him and not draft him anyway because he's not a shooting wing.

And true to our modus operandi, our front office will ignore our critical needs, and fall short yet again having those ignored issues exploited as they are annually throughout the season and postseason. and many will delude and rationalize how we'll be better next year from in spite of it all because we still resigned Allen and O'neale, rinse........repeat! This is why we're going on 57 years as the 5th winningest franchise to never win a championship. :dontknow:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#505 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:09 pm

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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#506 » by Saberestar » Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:11 pm

22. Phoenix Suns
Tyler Kolek, PG, Marquette | Age: 23.2

Kolek, ranked No. 26 in ESPN's Top 100, has been one of the big risers of the pre-draft process, showing his unique blend of toughness, skill, experience and feel for the game in every pre-draft workout.

He has worked out for teams picking as high as the mid-to-late lottery (San Antonio, Utah) and has fans throughout the teens portion of the draft, ending with Orlando and Toronto at No. 18 and No. 19. The success of older, physically underwhelming point guards such as Jalen Brunson and T.J. McConnell seems to be causing teams to look at players like Kolek in a different light.

The Suns, where Kolek is headed for a workout later this week, are viewed as an especially interesting destination considering their lack of depth at point guard and need for an experienced playmaker who can operate on and off the ball. -- Givony
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#507 » by sunsbg » Wed Jun 19, 2024 5:50 pm

Bronny it is.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#508 » by King4Day » Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:03 pm

This would concern me as it guarantees he'd get a roster spot. I think those who believe it's a leverage play are right.
Suns probably want nothing to do with him and Paul asked Jones to throw them a bone. He'll be drafted by the Lakers at 55 so they re-sign LeBron to max extension possible...and he gets to play with his kid.

 
"Bronny is the same as my previous clients," Paul said. "I got the word out early to teams that if you plan on bringing Bronny in, here's what you need to know: If you won't give him a real deal, there's nothing to talk about. It's hard to get real development on a two-way deal.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40387379/agent-says-limited-nba-draft-workouts-bronny-james-design
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#509 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Jun 19, 2024 7:43 pm

King4Day wrote:This would concern me as it guarantees he'd get a roster spot. I think those who believe it's a leverage play are right.
Suns probably want nothing to do with him and Paul asked Jones to throw them a bone. He'll be drafted by the Lakers at 55 so they re-sign LeBron to max extension possible...and he gets to play with his kid.

 
"Bronny is the same as my previous clients," Paul said. "I got the word out early to teams that if you plan on bringing Bronny in, here's what you need to know: If you won't give him a real deal, there's nothing to talk about. It's hard to get real development on a two-way deal.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40387379/agent-says-limited-nba-draft-workouts-bronny-james-design


It's just grotesquely stupid that we're wasting our time giving Bronny a 2nd workout and helping promote a false value narrative for bronny just so Jones can shamelessly pander to Lebron yet again because James Jones is the ultimate puppet stooge for Lebron and Rich Paul (Klutch) and prioritizes his focus on their interests over his own duties as our GM.

James isn't and wasn't ever coming here on a vet minimum. He was just using us to help get bronny more promotional publicity and hype to try and escalate percieved interest in him as a potential 1st round prospect, which he's nowhere close to being even in a draft like this. Jones has been a lousy GM from the jump, and this is just another example of him putting Lebron's and Klutchs' interests over our franchises interests and success. He should've been let go a long time ago!

If ye put even half as much energy, attention and focus into helping our team as he eagerly does trying to help James and the Flakers, then maybe we'd be in a much better long term position competitively. Jones needs to be fired so he can just go and join Lebron in LA already because that's where his focus is consistently anyways. We need and deserve a GM that's loyal and invested in our team's success, not a conference rival.

(report from Klutch- Rich Paul himself confirming James wasnot/ is not coming to Phoenix in offseason thread). :wink:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#510 » by TASTIC » Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:09 pm

I can't believe this Bronny James crap. If he gets a guaranteed contract over a vet who could actually help the team - or even a rookie with an actual future in the league, it'll be the final nail for Jones. Don't do your buddy any favours, this is a dog eat dog league and signing your boys' undersized, underwhelming and overexposed son, is not helping the Suns
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#511 » by TASTIC » Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:13 pm

Dunn is the guy I want, but I just can't see him falling to 22.

A team like the Heat at 15 or Pels at 21 will jump on him.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#512 » by Saberestar » Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:38 pm

TASTIC wrote:Dunn is the guy I want, but I just can't see him falling to 22.

A team like the Heat at 15 or Pels at 21 will jump on him.

Yeah, he is my favorite prospect at #22 too but I think he will be probably a lottery pick or at least Top 20 . He had a workout yesterday for the Bulls (#11).
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#513 » by SkyBill40 » Wed Jun 19, 2024 11:14 pm

I'm utterly over the James family and hearing about them constantly is just irritating.

I remember seeing a post on FB from one of the local outlets in relation to the Suns possibly taking him at 22. My thought was this: Could they? Yes; Should they? No; Will they? Probably. Why? Because we have Mat Ishbia running things and he does whatever the hell he wants without any conscious understanding of his lackluster and snap decision making or how it affects the team.

So... will we take him if he's there? I sure hope not but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we do. I'm hopeful someone else meaningful is there. I'd love to see us get Edey or that Kolek kid. I'd even take Filipowski from Duke as he'd be a nice stretch 4/5. I would really like us to somehow acquire a second rounder to supplement the team, but we're so screwed with picks that even having this one comes as a surprise.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#514 » by sunsbum » Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:19 am

Paul said Lebron ain’t signing a minimum contract to join the suns. So that ends that whole nightmare scenario. Also the fact that Gambo said the suns like kolek is a REALLY good sign even if he downplayed it. That means they genuinely have interest in him, and as we see he just flew into phx.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#515 » by RaisingArizona » Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:48 am

Just take Kolek, JJ. Hard to screw this up.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#516 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:25 am

TASTIC wrote:Dunn is the guy I want, but I just can't see him falling to 22.

A team like the Heat at 15 or Pels at 21 will jump on him.


Great eye man! Dunn is on the top of my list too because I can recognize his potential game changing defense all over the court and do believe that his offensive limitations are being grossly overstated. He'll figure it out and some team will simply hire a top tier shooting coach and turn him into an elite two way impact wing with Jaylen Brown type athleticism.

And then everyone will talk about how we missed identifying him sooner. Or they'll just rationalize how we needed a guard the most even though the only real impact defender we have on the roster is a 35 yr old KD. And once he's gone, we'll be a limited one way team.

I do however believe that he'll slide due to his shooting concerns to around the 26- 34 ranges of this draft. And will absolutely become one of the steals of this draft in the coming years. :nod:
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#517 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:34 am

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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#518 » by SkyBill40 » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:08 am

sunsbum wrote:Paul said Lebron ain’t signing a minimum contract to join the suns. So that ends that whole nightmare scenario. Also the fact that Gambo said the suns like kolek is a REALLY good sign even if he downplayed it. That means they genuinely have interest in him, and as we see he just flew into phx.


What Paul says and what James does are two different things. There's still a strong chance that James could end up here, whichever James that happens to be. As for Gambo? Meh. I don't put much value in what he has to say. By our luck, Kolek will be gone by the time our pick comes around. I wouldn't be surprised to find us trading it in a deal where the return on it is less than what the pick itself could be.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#519 » by Saberestar » Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:39 am

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25 names here.

Interesting that Kolek and Dunn have not been invited by the league. That means that apparently they are not expected to be drafted before #22.
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Re: NBA Draft 2024 

Post#520 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:38 pm

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25 names here.

Interesting that Kolek and Dunn have not been invited by the league. That means that apparently they are not expected to be drafted before #22.


I'm just that those two have been left off the green room list only because of the perception of their skillset limitations in today's game causing their percieved value to slide.

- For Kolek, it's his lack of burst, lack of size/ length, and subpar athleticism. Which Kolek will offset easily enough with his high cerebral basketball IQ and "in game" processing similar to McConnell.
- For Dunn, it's his obvious lack of perimeter shooting and overall mechanics issues (which can be fixed easily enough with the simple investment of a shooting coach to help slightly adjust his mechanics and release point).

But it's funny in that if not for these incremental issues for each player, they'd very likely be lottery picks out of our range anyways. So many people are somehow missing the extreme value of these prospects offsetting these concerns. That eith a small investment, you can get a potential lottery level talent and can cash in on high end value that otherwise you'd have no legitimate chance to get in our current situation.

Prospects all have their flaws, especially in a weak/ shallow draft such as this one. You'd think it'd be easier to identify the immense underlying impact value of these kind of prospects. But it's only often exposed once they're impacting games on the court with reactionary hindsight regrets on the ones who so many passed on. :D
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