2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[BobbieL]

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

I get what you are saying but if Bobby trades Saric/Smith for Young it opens up $14m of cap space that can be filled by players on the minimum contract alleviating his luxury tax burden.

If you want to win - you have to pay the players. You don't trade for Chris Paul, extend Chris Paul unless you truly are only in this for two years. Sarver is very up and down with his finances. Bigger picture, if you want to win, you need to pay Ayton and Bridges, Period. End of discussion. You have a great core group now - and I agoing to put Ayton and Bridges as higher priorities than Smith moving forward.

Granted, the lux tax burden for Sarver for next year if they do not bring back McGee, Shamet and Nader, but have Saric and Smith and extend DA and Mikal is probably around 20m or so - maybe 25m based on a bit of tweeting with David IV Point Play. This is nothing like what GSW paid last year for Oubre as a repeat repeat well above the Apron lux tax offender.

I understand your point as well. I also underestimated Smith's contract. $4.4 million is substantial for what he provides. Hindsight being 20/20, I went back and forth quite a bit before that draft between Jalen Smith and Paul Reed. Reed was taken in the second round and earns the league minimum. And at this point, he's at least as good a prospect as Jalen - probably better, if I'm being honest with myself.

I'm all in favor of ditching Saric's contract. Of course, we'll need to replace Young/Saric/Smith, but at this point, our rotation looks pretty complete without them. It's just that athletic 4s aren't very easy to find in FA. I can't think of one who was available this summer... Markkanen? Does Oubre count? Nance via trade... Oh yeah! Torrey Craig!

The thing is, guys who can't afford the lux tax shouldn't own an NBA team, because it essentially means they can't afford to own a contender.

I mean, to you last point, you are correct. Look at the new owner of the jazz who talked about buying the Suns, worth $8B. Sarver is worth $600m = so what is that - under 10%. Joe Tsai of the Nets can do whatever with Kyrie as he is worth $10. Ballmer we all know is worth, what 80-100B so buying the old Forum, leveling it and building his own stadium for 2.5B is nothing to him

But if Sarver wants to win - he nshould be willing to pay

Now I would prefer to keep Smith but I was just prioritizing. I copied David IV Point Plays spreadsheet to create my own. And I tweaked it for next summer to mess with the numbers, the possible extensions, etc. So, if Bridges and Ayton signed deals with first year salaries of $51m combined, you remove Saric McGee, Smith, Nader - you might be able to bring back Shamet, depending or a Thad Young and still be above the lux tax but under the apron

Its not ideal but if Sarver is worried about the lux tax and apron - this could be a scenario to help with the finances.

I had hoped Sarver would have learned by now long term financial planning and not year to year to year.

[Frank Lee]

Y’all sound like the kid wanting a pair of $200 sneakers as he shops with momma at Walmart. There’s not but a handful of owners who willynilly the cost of running their franchise.

And that still doesn’t make Ayton a maxxer… then to hear he wants to be paid like his draft peers??? I see where this is going, but in know way is DA the ‘man’ here.

Play for your money DA.

[alamin330]

Y’all sound like the kid wanting a pair of $200 sneakers as he shops with momma at Walmart. There’s not but a handful of owners who willynilly the cost of running their franchise.

And that still doesn’t make Ayton a maxxer… then to hear he wants to be paid like his draft peers??? I see where this is going, but in know way is DA the ‘man’ here.

Play for your money DA.

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at his rookie scale max deal at his position. If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

[Stark]

I really don't know what to say other than Sarver being Sarver and ruining the team once again. We have a real chance to win the title. Every team in history near Suns situation paid all their players and did their best to keep the team. Funny thing is most of the teams in our situation paid really old players to have a chance at the title. Suns core is super young and i don't think any of them reached their full potential.

Also i really don't understand why people think Ayton doesn't deserve the max. I'm sorry but if you think like, well Doncic got the max. However Ayton is not Doncic so... NO WE SHOULDN'T GIVE HIM THE MAX. This idea is so absurd to me i don't even feel like explain how dumb it is. Do you think there will be a chance where Phoenix sign a better center in free agency? Not next couple of years btw but like ever? Ayton is a 23 years old two way center who can be plus against small ball and an elite rebounder. He showed ability to hit his shot and might even expand to three point line. He averaged 15.8 points on 10 shot attempts in last year's playoff run that's historically insane and people say his offense is bad. Put Ayton to an another team watch his PPG skyrocket.

One thing that also people doesn't appreciate is how coachable and a great kid he is. Last year right before his extension year Suns limited his offense like crazy and made him basically just a lob threat and finish around the rim guy which was a good decision but i know a lot of players wouldn't like this. He focused on defense and continued to improve his game. Talent and character wise i don't see a lot of young players like that. Look at Miami for example, i believe Bam and Ayton are very similar players and Miami is waaaaay better at attracting free agents than Phoenix but they never doubt giving Bam his contract even though their window for the title is slimmer than the Suns. The moment we lose Ayton,Bridges. Say goodbye to Book.

Finally, like someone else also pointed out. Having leverage doesn't mean you have to use it. Human beings are not robots there is always a human part of it. Why would Phoenix wants to create a conflict and dysfunction for the team by stalling the extension stuff? It is a horrible business decision. Ayton and Bridges are too important for team's future and Sarver is playing a really dangerous game.

[alamin330]

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at the same rookie scale max deal at his position, and who plays better in the playoffs and was 2 wins away from a championship because of how amazing he played in the postseason, and who wants to play in Phoenix? If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

On the other hand I might want to give Bridges a decent contract but not max. Buddy don’t even got handles. Once he gets handles though it’s a wrap. He has paul George potential. So he’s a tougher decision in my opinion

[BobbieL]

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at the same rookie scale max deal at his position, and who plays better in the playoffs and was 2 wins away from a championship because of how amazing he played in the postseason, and who wants to play in Phoenix? If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

On the other hand I might want to give Bridges a decent contract but not max. Buddy don’t even got handles. Once he gets handles though it’s a wrap. He has paul George potential. So he’s a tougher decision in my opinion

And also with the way the NBA operates its cap -- its easier to sign your own players as you can go over the cap to do that. You do not need to fit them "under a cap'

Now maybe the Suns would have some money under the cap next summer or the summer after that when Crowder and Saric are off the books - but trying to find two players like DA and Mikal - fat chance. So farom a monetary perspective - unless you sign a veteran minimum player - to get the production from Ayton and Bridges - how much are you really going to save cap wise.

[alamin330]

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at the same rookie scale max deal at his position, and who plays better in the playoffs and was 2 wins away from a championship because of how amazing he played in the postseason, and who wants to play in Phoenix? If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

On the other hand I might want to give Bridges a decent contract but not max. Buddy don’t even got handles. Once he gets handles though it’s a wrap. He has paul George potential. So he’s a tougher decision in my opinion

And also with the way the NBA operates its cap -- its easier to sign your own players as you can go over the cap to do that. You do not need to fit them "under a cap'

Now maybe the Suns would have some money under the cap next summer or the summer after that when Crowder and Saric are off the books - but trying to find two players like DA and Mikal - fat chance. So farom a monetary perspective - unless you sign a veteran minimum player - to get the production from Ayton and Bridges - how much are you really going to save cap wise.

Intellectuals understand this. Sarver is a penny pincher. How much are you really going to save a few mil? Really? You’re gonna end up spending more when he leaves and you keep signing trash to long deals and waive them and still gotta pay them and other trash until you find someone as good. Smh. This is disrespectful and I’d be highly dissatisfied if I were Ayton or bridges. I would seriously consider pulling a joe Johnson for the disrespect.

[BobbieL]

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at the same rookie scale max deal at his position, and who plays better in the playoffs and was 2 wins away from a championship because of how amazing he played in the postseason, and who wants to play in Phoenix? If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

On the other hand I might want to give Bridges a decent contract but not max. Buddy don’t even got handles. Once he gets handles though it’s a wrap. He has paul George potential. So he’s a tougher decision in my opinion

And also with the way the NBA operates its cap -- its easier to sign your own players as you can go over the cap to do that. You do not need to fit them "under a cap'

Now maybe the Suns would have some money under the cap next summer or the summer after that when Crowder and Saric are off the books - but trying to find two players like DA and Mikal - fat chance. So farom a monetary perspective - unless you sign a veteran minimum player - to get the production from Ayton and Bridges - how much are you really going to save cap wise.

Intellectuals understand this. Sarver is a penny pincher. How much are you really going to save a few mil? Really? You’re gonna end up spending more when he leaves and you keep signing trash to long deals and waive them and still gotta pay them and other trash until you find someone as good. Smh. This is disrespectful and I’d be highly dissatisfied if I were Ayton or bridges. I would seriously consider pulling a joe Johnson for the disrespect.

I can cite many examples of where I feel like Sarver had a roller coaster financially
1) lets trade away two first round picks, Brian Grant so Sarver pockets $6m, saves $2m from Grant and doesn't have to pay rookies. Though one rookie deal was probably 4 years 6m many years ago. Oh but lets sign Marcus Banks for 21/5 years. I get it was Mike D but thats not financially a smart move to pay Banks instead of one rookie PG (and one of those guys was Rondo)

2) Amare - was worried about knees long term. Fine, you make the prudent move. But than you take tall that money and sign a bunch of guys liek Warrick, Childress, Frye (I know he was pretty good) and trade LB for Turkoglu. Well if you were spending that much just keep Amare, Barbosa and sign a bunch of guys on one year deals instead of long term deals

So here we are again - they are a very good team. Can operate over the cap and for the 50m or so it will cost to get Ayton and Bridges - what are you going to pay to try to replace them. Maybe its Cam Johnson - okay, thats two years from now

IF the dude doesn't sign DA and MB to extensions - sell the team

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

This makes so little sense. Very few fans think Ayton shouldn't get the max. It's clearly market.

Even getting this far without reaching a deal is a PR disaster. Almost no one is on Sarver's side. And now the whole league knows that Sarver won't reward his players. So even if this ends with an extension, we've already paid a price for this.

Penny wise, pound foolish. Congrats, Bobby, for cementing yourself as one of the worst owners in the league.

[alamin330]

And also with the way the NBA operates its cap -- its easier to sign your own players as you can go over the cap to do that. You do not need to fit them "under a cap'

Now maybe the Suns would have some money under the cap next summer or the summer after that when Crowder and Saric are off the books - but trying to find two players like DA and Mikal - fat chance. So farom a monetary perspective - unless you sign a veteran minimum player - to get the production from Ayton and Bridges - how much are you really going to save cap wise.

Intellectuals understand this. Sarver is a penny pincher. How much are you really going to save a few mil? Really? You’re gonna end up spending more when he leaves and you keep signing trash to long deals and waive them and still gotta pay them and other trash until you find someone as good. Smh. This is disrespectful and I’d be highly dissatisfied if I were Ayton or bridges. I would seriously consider pulling a joe Johnson for the disrespect.

I can cite many examples of where I feel like Sarver had a roller coaster financially
1) lets trade away two first round picks, Brian Grant so Sarver pockets $6m, saves $2m from Grant and doesn't have to pay rookies. Though one rookie deal was probably 4 years 6m many years ago. Oh but lets sign Marcus Banks for 21/5 years. I get it was Mike D but thats not financially a smart move to pay Banks instead of one rookie PG (and one of those guys was Rondo)

2) Amare - was worried about knees long term. Fine, you make the prudent move. But than you take tall that money and sign a bunch of guys liek Warrick, Childress, Frye (I know he was pretty good) and trade LB for Turkoglu. Well if you were spending that much just keep Amare, Barbosa and sign a bunch of guys on one year deals instead of long term deals

So here we are again - they are a very good team. Can operate over the cap and for the 50m or so it will cost to get Ayton and Bridges - what are you going to pay to try to replace them. Maybe its Cam Johnson - okay, thats two years from now

IF the dude doesn't sign DA and MB to extensions - sell the team

Facts!
If sarver wants to save money so badly just sell the team. You’ll make more than you paid for it and you don’t gotta worry about saving money anymore. Can someone please find some dirt on him. This guy is such a fool just do a little digging and I know he’ll be finished. Why is nobody exposing him?

[Slim Charless]

If we would have drafted Doncic and he would have performed for us like he has with Dallas. I expect that Bob would have had no problem giving him the Supermax. I imagine he would have had not problem paying Tre Young. Both of those guys played like max players before the playoffs and during the playoffs.

Unfortunately Ayton is not Doncic, not even close. Neither are Alexander or Porter worth the max. I know they are getting only the max a measly $179 Million Dollars but they are not worth it. I have no idea why Denver and OKC gave out the max contracts to those guys.

Those contracts are a big problem.

I would not give either Ayton or Bridges a max contracts, THIS YEAR. Play one more year for me, perform like a max player and we can talk. If your feelings are hurt so be it. I expect Bob's feelings were hurt when you tested positive for illegal drugs and missed 25 games. I expect Bob was not happy with Ayton's performance prior to last years playoffs and Bob had pound his head against a wall trying to understand how stupid he was not to draft Doncic. Dallas did not have to pay Chris Paul GaGillion Dollars to teach Doncic how to play.

Prior to the playoffs a lot of us were not convinced that Ayton was the long term answer for this team.

The sky is not falling and I am not a Sarver lover. We will be fine, I think, I hope, maybe.

OK and if Ayton balls out and says "OK I think I'll take the QO and play this thing out (start looking for places in the Manhattan area)." What's your response then?

[Slim Charless]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton addresses contract talks, saying he's "disappointed" a deal hasn't gotten done and he wants to be respected like his peers as ESPN reported last week contract talks were stalled over getting rookie max extension. #Suns https://t.co/XVtj06fojN

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Look at his body language in that video. You can tell he's pissed.....and he should be. If we don't sign him and he balls out he's taking the QO. My guess at least.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'll wait to see how it all plays out but it bob won't invest in his team then why would I invest my time and money in them either.


It is interesting that there seems to be a shift in some of this boards stance on early rookie extensions. I've long been in the get them done and don't mess with RFA but when Booker was up I feel that opinion was split. I just feel like it's not worth damaging the relationship.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Slim Charless]

Watch on YouTube

Remember Sarver's speech? "our journey is to win an NBA championship".

What a slap in the face to the fanbase it would be if after giving that speech he then the following off-season fails to keep the team together, eventhough guys like Payne and Paul re-signed on deals structured to keep Ayton and Bridges in Suns uniforms.

If the Ayton deal hasn't gotten done and he only will accept a max, at this point I don't really expect it getting done.

They better get the Bridges one done though.

While locking up Paul was important, for our long term sustainable success, these are very important.

The only reason these will get done is if the players capitulate and just decide that they'd rather secure the money and get it behind them.

Part of me sees them both doing so..but a bigger part of me sees Ayton looking at those other guys in his class and not giving him.

As for Bridges, if they are not at least offering /$90, but preferably at least would go up to 4/$100, then that's ridiculous. I can understand them standing firm at $100, though when push came to shove I'd go to 5/$110.

If they do that, and sign Mikal over the #1 overall pick....then just trade Ayton now for KAT. He'll be 1000% gone the first chance he gets. That's an massive slap to the face by $arver (who is a cheap scumbag so that wouldn't surprise me). Might as well get ahead of the trouble it's gonna cause in the locker room. KAT is Book's buddy, so at least we know that that'll keep him happy and not demanding a trade (yet).

$arver sucks and posters here need to stop defending his thinking.

[BobbieL]

I'll wait to see how it all plays out but it bob won't invest in his team then why would I invest my time and money in them either.


It is interesting that there seems to be a shift in some of this boards stance on early rookie extensions. I've long been in the get them done and don't mess with RFA but when Booker was up I feel that opinion was split. I just feel like it's not worth damaging the relationship.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Silly me - and yes, we still have until October 18
but silly me, I thought signing a bunch of guys to one year deals, not using the BAE, not signing McGee to a longer term deal even thought with the MLE could have done multiple years was actually Bob Sarver thinking ahead to 22/23 and not spending too much too soon. Which I thought "hey thats smart thinking if you still need to get DA and Mikal done." Keep the guaranteed deals to a minimum and you can always adjust next summer.

I guess we shall see..

The team has a chance to be very good this. Good bench options in Shamet and McGee were added. Organic growth of the players. Good will of the city. And only Bob Sarver could jack with that.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'll wait to see how it all plays out but it bob won't invest in his team then why would I invest my time and money in them either.


It is interesting that there seems to be a shift in some of this boards stance on early rookie extensions. I've long been in the get them done and don't mess with RFA but when Booker was up I feel that opinion was split. I just feel like it's not worth damaging the relationship.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I was in favor of letting Booker wait til RFA for two reasons. First, it would have increased our cap space that summer - that's not an issue here. Second, his defense and turnover numbers were AWFUL and I thought he needed to demonstrate some growth to merit the max. Overall, Ayton is a more valuable player than Booker was when he got the max, because he's a positive on both ends. He continues to demonstrate growth. There's simply no caveats here: he's worth the max.

Sarver's just focused on avoiding the luxury tax, not what his players are worth or on building a contender for the long-term. For some reason he fails to understand the long-term benefits of a championship for a franchise. So many long-term fans were made between 1990 and 1995. The expenses incurred in those years continue to pay dividends for this franchise. Sarver's got a chance to do even better with this squad, but it requires an upfront investment.

[bwgood77]

Watch on YouTube

Remember Sarver's speech? "our journey is to win an NBA championship".

What a slap in the face to the fanbase it would be if after giving that speech he then the following off-season fails to keep the team together, eventhough guys like Payne and Paul re-signed on deals structured to keep Ayton and Bridges in Suns uniforms.

If the Ayton deal hasn't gotten done and he only will accept a max, at this point I don't really expect it getting done.

They better get the Bridges one done though.

While locking up Paul was important, for our long term sustainable success, these are very important.

The only reason these will get done is if the players capitulate and just decide that they'd rather secure the money and get it behind them.

Part of me sees them both doing so..but a bigger part of me sees Ayton looking at those other guys in his class and not giving him.

As for Bridges, if they are not at least offering /$90, but preferably at least would go up to 4/$100, then that's ridiculous. I can understand them standing firm at $100, though when push came to shove I'd go to 5/$110.

If they do that, and sign Mikal over the #1 overall pick....then just trade Ayton now for KAT. He'll be 1000% gone the first chance he gets. That's an massive slap to the face by $arver (who is a cheap scumbag so that wouldn't surprise me). Might as well get ahead of the trouble it's gonna cause in the locker room. KAT is Book's buddy, so at least we know that that'll keep him happy and not demanding a trade (yet).

$arver sucks and posters here need to stop defending his thinking.

Towns could want that if they end up trading Russell for Simmons which has been talked about, but doesn't seem like enough if they won't take Brogdon, LeVert and a pick (they should).

I think if Ayton steps up even more, which I expect, he will get a max offer next offseason and take it and be happy..he seems like a happy no grudge guy. That may be what they are telling him, which, you can say isn't bad reasoning.

Bridges deserves one now. His value will only go up, especially if he starts creating his own shot more. Most teams already seem to think Ayton deserves a max, so the value won't go up.

[bwgood77]

Who is better than Ayton that would be attainable at the same rookie scale max deal at his position, and who plays better in the playoffs and was 2 wins away from a championship because of how amazing he played in the postseason, and who wants to play in Phoenix? If Ayton is the best (which I believe he is) then he’s a Max player. It’s not that complicated. Smh

On the other hand I might want to give Bridges a decent contract but not max. Buddy don’t even got handles. Once he gets handles though it’s a wrap. He has paul George potential. So he’s a tougher decision in my opinion

And also with the way the NBA operates its cap -- its easier to sign your own players as you can go over the cap to do that. You do not need to fit them "under a cap'

Now maybe the Suns would have some money under the cap next summer or the summer after that when Crowder and Saric are off the books - but trying to find two players like DA and Mikal - fat chance. So farom a monetary perspective - unless you sign a veteran minimum player - to get the production from Ayton and Bridges - how much are you really going to save cap wise.

Intellectuals understand this. Sarver is a penny pincher. How much are you really going to save a few mil? Really? You’re gonna end up spending more when he leaves and you keep signing trash to long deals and waive them and still gotta pay them and other trash until you find someone as good. Smh. This is disrespectful and I’d be highly dissatisfied if I were Ayton or bridges. I would seriously consider pulling a joe Johnson for the disrespect.

It's nice to run into an intellectual who understands it.

[bwgood77]

I'll wait to see how it all plays out but it bob won't invest in his team then why would I invest my time and money in them either.


It is interesting that there seems to be a shift in some of this boards stance on early rookie extensions. I've long been in the get them done and don't mess with RFA but when Booker was up I feel that opinion was split. I just feel like it's not worth damaging the relationship.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think the Booker one was split. My reasoning was that if he wanted to compete that we had the cap space to sign another player or two because his cap hold was low...if he waited.

This is different in the sense we are over the cap and they have big cap holds, particularly Ayton. We are over the cap anyway and are going to be in the tax next year so waiting to sign doesn't make sense.

[BobbieL]

I'll wait to see how it all plays out but it bob won't invest in his team then why would I invest my time and money in them either.


It is interesting that there seems to be a shift in some of this boards stance on early rookie extensions. I've long been in the get them done and don't mess with RFA but when Booker was up I feel that opinion was split. I just feel like it's not worth damaging the relationship.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I was in favor of letting Booker wait til RFA for two reasons. First, it would have increased our cap space that summer - that's not an issue here. Second, his defense and turnover numbers were AWFUL and I thought he needed to demonstrate some growth to merit the max. Overall, Ayton is a more valuable player than Booker was when he got the max, because he's a positive on both ends. He continues to demonstrate growth. There's simply no caveats here: he's worth the max.

Sarver's just focused on avoiding the luxury tax, not what his players are worth or on building a contender for the long-term. For some reason he fails to understand the long-term benefits of a championship for a franchise. So many long-term fans were made between 1990 and 1995. The expenses incurred in those years continue to pay dividends for this franchise. Sarver's got a chance to do even better with this squad, but it requires an upfront investment.

In my twitter exchange with DavidIV (David Nash) -- I think my figures in year 1 were around 20m based on how much above the apron and who is signed etc.

Up to 5m - David said was 1.5x. So thats 7.5m. and say 5m more would be 2x I think - so thats 17.5m to be 10m above the lux tax

So maybe its closer to 25m in penalties if you sign a guy like Shamet longer term but this is part of being good