Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[Kjdills13]

Morris, Morris, tucker 2 1st round picks

For

Carmelo


Go hard as hell after milsap I would offer 5 years 75million for him which would fit in our cap before we resign knight

Bledsoe/bogdonavich
Knight/Goodwin
Melo/ warren
Milsap/ brown
Len/wright

This team has it all, spacing, one on one players, rebounding, size, defense, a young team with 2 veterans. Also melo will be great at teaching warren how to be and elite scorer

[lilfishi22]

Morris, Morris, tucker 2 1st round picks

For

Carmelo


Go hard as hell after milsap I would offer 5 years 75million for him which would fit in our cap before we resign knight

Bledsoe/bogdonavich
Knight/Goodwin
Melo/ warren
Milsap/ brown
Len/wright

This team has it all, spacing, one on one players, rebounding, size, defense, a young team with 2 veterans. Also melo will be great at teaching warren how to be and elite scorer

The guys handling the ball the most are still iso guys. Melo is an iso guy, Knight is better with the ball in his hands and Bledsoe is an iso guy.

I don't think that team would go very far.

[bwgood77]

Morris, Morris, tucker 2 1st round picks

For

Carmelo


Go hard as hell after milsap I would offer 5 years 75million for him which would fit in our cap before we resign knight

Bledsoe/bogdonavich
Knight/Goodwin
Melo/ warren
Milsap/ brown
Len/wright

This team has it all, spacing, one on one players, rebounding, size, defense, a young team with 2 veterans. Also melo will be great at teaching warren how to be and elite scorer

Knicks have made it pretty clear they are willing to even trade high draft picks for proven stars. They are not trading Melo. Phil is not in it for the long run and totally rebuilding. He never has been. Every team he has been involved with has already had proven stars and was on the cusp of being relevant. I'm not saying they are. He will go hard after Love and Cousins and others by dangling that player who he can get. It will be interesting to see if he is willing to risk a guy like Okafor for a player like Love who could leave, but I think he just might. I think he would definitely do it for Cousins. I think he would trade the high pick and whatever else other than Melo for Cousins.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Just a prototype scenario based on McDonough's game plan:

Harris 16*
Knight 15*
Bledsoe 14
Morris 8
Morris 5
Tucker 5
Wright 5*
Len 4
Warren 2
Bullock 1
Goodwin 1
4 Minimum Players 6*

We sign Harris, Knight, Wright and 4 rookie/vets on minimum.

= 82m. Not sure about that roster. So that's the conservative scenario of just adding a few gettable players. Think we need to pull the trigger on something elite (pick or player) sooner or later.

[DirtyDez]

Quin Snyder trade value?

[carey]

Just a prototype scenario based on McDonough's game plan:

Harris 16*
Knight 15*
Bledsoe 14
Morris 8
Morris 5
Tucker 5
Wright 5*
Len 4
Warren 2
Bullock 1
Goodwin 1
4 Minimum Players 6*

We sign Harris, Knight, Wright and 4 rookie/vets on minimum.

= 82m. Not sure about that roster. So that's the conservative scenario of just adding a few gettable players. Think we need to pull the trigger on something elite (pick or player) sooner or later.

We're dumber than I thought if we commit 15/yr to Knight. If we then compound that mistake by signing Harris for 16/yr when we have 3 other SFs on the roster without moving 2 of them I'll probably start the inevitable fire McDonough bandwagon. I'm not sure Wright is coming back at 5/yr either.

Also that team doesn't make us a whole lot better and we're beyond maxed out cap wise. Signing Harris is as good of an idea as any right now. I'm not sure who is available that would make us more competitive though. This is where McDonough has to earn his pay.

[DRK]

Harris to me is just a rich man's Marcus Morris. I dont get the infatuation with him at all.

[NavLDO]

Just a prototype scenario based on McDonough's game plan:

Harris 16*
Knight 15*
Bledsoe 14
Morris 8
Morris 5
Tucker 5
Wright 5*
Len 4
Warren 2
Bullock 1
Goodwin 1
4 Minimum Players 6*

We sign Harris, Knight, Wright and 4 rookie/vets on minimum.

= 82m. Not sure about that roster. So that's the conservative scenario of just adding a few gettable players. Think we need to pull the trigger on something elite (pick or player) sooner or later.

We're dumber than I thought if we commit 15/yr to Knight. If we then compound that mistake by signing Harris for 16/yr when we have 3 other SFs on the roster without moving 2 of them I'll probably start the inevitable fire McDonough bandwagon. I'm not sure Wright is coming back at 5/yr either.

Also that team doesn't make us a whole lot better and we're beyond maxed out cap wise. Signing Harris is as good of an idea as any right now. I'm not sure who is available that would make us more competitive though. This is where McDonough has to earn his pay.

While I agree that Knight hasn't shown to be a $15M per kind of talent, last year's signings of Hayward and Parsons at that level, along with the additional Cap space, show that it wouldn't be too far-fetched to see the Suns matching a $15M per offer from some other team. Not to mention, that if we don't sign Knight, how does that look as far as McD's rep, knowing we traded the LAL pick, plus Ennis, for a two month rental. I don't see a scenario in which McD does not match any offer the Knight signs. To me, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion; he backed himself into a corner on that trade.

[aIvin adams]

i have no problem wit the Suns matching whatever Knight is offered. hard to imagine someone won't give him a max or near-max offer sheet, but then again I expected someone would make a deal w Bled last year and I was wrong about that.

Knight is a gifted scorer and has the tools to team up w Bled defending backcourts. He is the real deal. I don't know how much you all have seen of Knight in the last two years, but I thought he should have been an all-star this year over Kyle Korver.

if indeed there is no smoothing, and if indeed the cap jumps as everyone expects, then Knight at a max this offseason will be a very good contract for its duration.

if someone else offers him a four year max, match it immediately. if they don't, try to sign him to a five year contract like bledsoe's.

last year i thought there was no way Bledsoe would take the QO. admittedly, I was surprised that Monroe played on a QO this year. but i would have been even more surprised if Bledsoe had done so. with Knight... I don't know. The situuation is diferent now because of the cap jump that everyone can see coming. there's more to gain in taking the QO. The Suns can't let that happen. So I think Knight has more leverage than Bled did. Knight has also had more opportunity to show what he's got than Bled had at this time last year.

I think he'll get paid and we'll be glad if we are the ones paying him.

[carey]

Just a prototype scenario based on McDonough's game plan:

Harris 16*
Knight 15*
Bledsoe 14
Morris 8
Morris 5
Tucker 5
Wright 5*
Len 4
Warren 2
Bullock 1
Goodwin 1
4 Minimum Players 6*

We sign Harris, Knight, Wright and 4 rookie/vets on minimum.

= 82m. Not sure about that roster. So that's the conservative scenario of just adding a few gettable players. Think we need to pull the trigger on something elite (pick or player) sooner or later.

We're dumber than I thought if we commit 15/yr to Knight. If we then compound that mistake by signing Harris for 16/yr when we have 3 other SFs on the roster without moving 2 of them I'll probably start the inevitable fire McDonough bandwagon. I'm not sure Wright is coming back at 5/yr either.

Also that team doesn't make us a whole lot better and we're beyond maxed out cap wise. Signing Harris is as good of an idea as any right now. I'm not sure who is available that would make us more competitive though. This is where McDonough has to earn his pay.

While I agree that Knight hasn't shown to be a $15M per kind of talent, last year's signings of Hayward and Parsons at that level, along with the additional Cap space, show that it wouldn't be too far-fetched to see the Suns matching a $15M per offer from some other team. Not to mention, that if we don't sign Knight, how does that look as far as McD's rep, knowing we traded the LAL pick, plus Ennis, for a two month rental. I don't see a scenario in which McD does not match any offer the Knight signs. To me, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion; he backed himself into a corner on that trade.

I don't think he's that kind of GM. He won't sign a guy just to save face. He has a value penciled in for Knight. We will see what that is.

[bwgood77]

I think McD will sign Knight for whatever the market is. He obviously values him quite a bit if he gave up all that for him. I am not completely sure he will fetch a near max offer though, since there are not many teams with pg needs. Same thing that happened with Bledsoe, but I don't know that we should necessarily bid against ourselves like we did with Bledsoe, though I guess we still landed in the middle with Bledsoe at the negotiating table.

[NavLDO]

I think McD will sign Knight for whatever the market is. He obviously values him quite a bit if he gave up all that for him. I am not completely sure he will fetch a near max offer though, since there are not many teams with pg needs. Same thing that happened with Bledsoe, but I don't know that we should necessarily bid against ourselves like we did with Bledsoe, though I guess we still landed in the middle with Bledsoe at the negotiating table.

Yeah, maybe let's not say we will match any offer ahead of time, eh? But you are right, the PG market is rather saturated, so maybe we can squeak by with $12Mish per.

@Carey -- I hope you are right; I think you are, but wouldn't surprise me either way, I guess. But just like Bledsoe, I'm sure he had a number "penciled in" for his value, and I suspect it was not $14M, otherwise, the deal would have gotten done much sooner, I think. Even if it was in the "ballpark", McD would have capitulated to avoid that long, drawn out scenario that did nothing but hurt our FO reputation. I think his number was $12M, and I doubt, had Bledsoe's camp come in at $13M, that he wouldn't have agreed much sooner.

Overall, what is everyone's thought on Knight's value? Considering the rise in Cap, is it higher or lower than Bledsoe? My take is that it would be higher. Remember, Bledsoe was a mid-1st pick, whereas Knight was #8 overall. Also, Knight has both, more experience, and is one year younger than Bledsoe was; plus, not to mention his injury history is much cleaner. Additionally, Knight was in serious consideration for the All-Star game, even if in the East, he still has to be viewed as a more noteworthy FA.

The things I think we have in our favor are two-fold--1. his perceived upside, I believe, is not as high as Bledsoe, and 2., his play this year has regressed since coming to the Suns, whereas Bledsoe's play had improved in the season prior to RFA.

[bwgood77]

I think McD will sign Knight for whatever the market is. He obviously values him quite a bit if he gave up all that for him. I am not completely sure he will fetch a near max offer though, since there are not many teams with pg needs. Same thing that happened with Bledsoe, but I don't know that we should necessarily bid against ourselves like we did with Bledsoe, though I guess we still landed in the middle with Bledsoe at the negotiating table.

Yeah, maybe let's not say we will match any offer ahead of time, eh? But you are right, the PG market is rather saturated, so maybe we can squeak by with $12Mish per.

@Carey -- I hope you are right; I think you are, but wouldn't surprise me either way, I guess. But just like Bledsoe, I'm sure he had a number "penciled in" for his value, and I suspect it was not $14M, otherwise, the deal would have gotten done much sooner, I think. Even if it was in the "ballpark", McD would have capitulated to avoid that long, drawn out scenario that did nothing but hurt our FO reputation. I think his number was $12M, and I doubt, had Bledsoe's camp come in at $13M, that he wouldn't have agreed much sooner.

Overall, what is everyone's thought on Knight's value? Considering the rise in Cap, is it higher or lower than Bledsoe? My take is that it would be higher. Remember, Bledsoe was a mid-1st pick, whereas Knight was #8 overall. Also, Knight has both, more experience, and is one year younger than Bledsoe was; plus, not to mention his injury history is much cleaner. Additionally, Knight was in serious consideration for the All-Star game, even if in the East, he still has to be viewed as a more noteworthy FA.

The things I think we have in our favor are two-fold--1. his perceived upside, I believe, is not as high as Bledsoe, and 2., his play this year has regressed since coming to the Suns, whereas Bledsoe's play had improved in the season prior to RFA.

The problem with McD offering 14 at the beginning of the summer is that it would have been his starting point for negotiating purposes. Since it was 12, and Bledsoe was 16+, they landed at 14 after both stood their ground. Had McD offereed 14 to begin with, he likely has to settle at 15.

Is Knight worth more than Bledsoe? Probably not, but due to a rising cap, there is inflation in the nba, so him getting a little more would basically be about the same. I'd look at the number as a % of the cap as opposed to the flat out number.

When the cap goes to 90, 20 million will seem like a huge contract, but it is less % of cap than 15 is now. It is smart to lock up Brandon Knight if you like him, because even if he gets 15 a year, that will be 17% of a 90 million cap, so it would equate to a contract less than 11 million per year at the current cap.

[aIvin adams]

2., his play this year has regressed since coming to the Suns, whereas Bledsoe's play had improved in the season prior to RFA.

nahh that shouldnt count he was coming to a new team with almost no practice.

incidentally he finally started to look like himself in that first half where he sprained his ankle

[letsgosuns]

If Brandon Knight is willing to buy into becoming a pure shooting guard and give up being the point guard, then I would re-sign him. If he still wants to be the man controlling the ball, the Suns are just going to be in the same situation they were before with Dragic. That is obviously not good. As far as his contract goes, I think he will get the same contract as Bledsoe, give or take 1-2 million a year. For the other positions in free agency, the Suns need an upgrade at both forward spots, unless they believe Warren can start next year.

I would stay away from Kevin Love if he is available at all costs. He is getting benched in crunch time of Cavs games because he is such a liability defensively and offers nothing offensively. They said on ESPN recently he is averaging like 2 points in the fourth quarter of games this year while shooting 35%. That was the big knock on him his entire career in Minnesota last year. I remember when the Suns played the Wolves last year and that is exactly what happened. He could play well the first three quarters and then the fourth quarter comes along and he disappears. That is the opposite of a closer and the last kind of player you would want to give max money to. As much as I dislike the Morris brothers, at least Markieff takes big shots at the end of games.

Love is also so unathletic it is sad. When I watched the Spurs versus Cavs game recently he could barely get a shot off at one point and Duncan just ripped the ball away from him. He can barely jump. The current Cavs team is the likely favorites to win the East and possibly the championship. This same team does not even want Love to play when it matters. People need to take that as a sign. Don't you think if Love was so awesome and a max player he would be out there at the end of games playing with Lebron? Well he is not. And for good reason. He is an awful defender and his only positive is that he spreads the floor for Lebron and Irving by standing at the three point line. Might as well have Channing Frye for way less money.

[bwgood77]

2., his play this year has regressed since coming to the Suns, whereas Bledsoe's play had improved in the season prior to RFA.

nahh that shouldnt count he was coming to a new team with almost no practice.

incidentally he finally started to look like himself in that first half where he sprained his ankle

I'm not sure how you did it, but you just made it look like I said something that NavDo said....don't put his words in my mouth!

[thamadkant]

If Brandon Knight is willing to buy into becoming a pure shooting guard and give up being the point guard, then I would re-sign him. If he still wants to be the man controlling the ball, the Suns are just going to be in the same situation they were before with Dragic. That is obviously not good. As far as his contract goes, I think he will get the same contract as Bledsoe, give or take 1-2 million a year. For the other positions in free agency, the Suns need an upgrade at both forward spots, unless they believe Warren can start next year.

I would stay away from Kevin Love if he is available at all costs. He is getting benched in crunch time of Cavs games because he is such a liability defensively and offers nothing offensively. They said on ESPN recently he is averaging like 2 points in the fourth quarter of games this year while shooting 35%. That was the big knock on him his entire career in Minnesota last year. I remember when the Suns played the Wolves last year and that is exactly what happened. He could play well the first three quarters and then the fourth quarter comes along and he disappears. That is the opposite of a closer and the last kind of player you would want to give max money to. As much as I dislike the Morris brothers, at least Markieff takes big shots at the end of games.

Love is also so unathletic it is sad. When I watched the Spurs versus Cavs game recently he could barely get a shot off at one point and Duncan just ripped the ball away from him. He can barely jump. The current Cavs team is the likely favorites to win the East and possibly the championship. This same team does not even want Love to play when it matters. People need to take that as a sign. Don't you think if Love was so awesome and a max player he would be out there at the end of games playing with Lebron? Well he is not. And for good reason. He is an awful defender and his only positive is that he spreads the floor for Lebron and Irving by standing at the three point line. Might as well have Channing Frye for way less money.

About Love: Do you read outside the Suns forum?
Love has back problems at the moment.
And Love's athleticism isnt Blake Griffin/Amare Stoudemire type.... he has elite reaction time, elite coordination for his size... Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan type athleticism.


Defense wise, look, if you expect him to be a good man on man defender it'll lead to disappointments.
If you put a rim protector behind him, he'll be fine.
He grabs defensive rebounds so that you can count on.... box out for him and he'll get the ball a lot.
His value comes from that, defenders have to go out to guard him at the 3pt line and he is crafty inside, gets on the offensive boards and crafty enough to get easy points from put backs.

[bwgood77]

Might as well have Channing Frye for way less money.

Well, unless you are a fan of rebounding. I wouldn't trade for him though because he will be a free agent in 2016 if he opts in....heck, he may bolt somewhere this summer.

[Damkac]

last year i thought there was no way Bledsoe would take the QO. admittedly, I was surprised that Monroe played on a QO this year. but i would have been even more surprised if Bledsoe had done so. with Knight... I don't know. The situuation is diferent now because of the cap jump that everyone can see coming. there's more to gain in taking the QO. The Suns can't let that happen. So I think Knight has more leverage than Bled did. Knight has also had more opportunity to show what he's got than Bled had at this time last year.

That's a bit scary. Please, not this offseason drama once again

[letsgosuns]

If Brandon Knight is willing to buy into becoming a pure shooting guard and give up being the point guard, then I would re-sign him. If he still wants to be the man controlling the ball, the Suns are just going to be in the same situation they were before with Dragic. That is obviously not good. As far as his contract goes, I think he will get the same contract as Bledsoe, give or take 1-2 million a year. For the other positions in free agency, the Suns need an upgrade at both forward spots, unless they believe Warren can start next year.

I would stay away from Kevin Love if he is available at all costs. He is getting benched in crunch time of Cavs games because he is such a liability defensively and offers nothing offensively. They said on ESPN recently he is averaging like 2 points in the fourth quarter of games this year while shooting 35%. That was the big knock on him his entire career in Minnesota last year. I remember when the Suns played the Wolves last year and that is exactly what happened. He could play well the first three quarters and then the fourth quarter comes along and he disappears. That is the opposite of a closer and the last kind of player you would want to give max money to. As much as I dislike the Morris brothers, at least Markieff takes big shots at the end of games.

Love is also so unathletic it is sad. When I watched the Spurs versus Cavs game recently he could barely get a shot off at one point and Duncan just ripped the ball away from him. He can barely jump. The current Cavs team is the likely favorites to win the East and possibly the championship. This same team does not even want Love to play when it matters. People need to take that as a sign. Don't you think if Love was so awesome and a max player he would be out there at the end of games playing with Lebron? Well he is not. And for good reason. He is an awful defender and his only positive is that he spreads the floor for Lebron and Irving by standing at the three point line. Might as well have Channing Frye for way less money.

About Love: Do you read outside the Suns forum?
Love has back problems at the moment.
And Love's athleticism isnt Blake Griffin/Amare Stoudemire type.... he has elite reaction time, elite coordination for his size... Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan type athleticism.


Defense wise, look, if you expect him to be a good man on man defender it'll lead to disappointments.
If you put a rim protector behind him, he'll be fine.
He grabs defensive rebounds so that you can count on.... box out for him and he'll get the ball a lot.
His value comes from that, defenders have to go out to guard him at the 3pt line and he is crafty inside, gets on the offensive boards and crafty enough to get easy points from put backs.

I am just saying that the Cavs are the favorites to win the East. They have the best player in the world in Lebron and the best scoring point guard in the league in Irving. They are trying to build a champion and they are benching Love when it matters most. I know he has had the back problems but I have watched the Cavs a lot throughout the year. Love has complained many times when he said they are treating him almost exclusively as a three point shooting stretch four. Yet whenever I see him get the ball in the post he struggles to score. Sometimes he does score but he looks like he is having such a hard time doing it.

My point is this. If it takes a great defensive team to win the championship, then Love is not the guy you want to pay max money to and build your team around. Third option behind Lebron and Irving, that is different. But the Suns would be signing him to be their superstar and he is not on that level. Even if you have an elite rim protector, Love's offensive game is not good enough to offset his lack of defense. Nowitzki is not a great defender but he is a historically great offensive player who is unstoppable. Plus he is a 7 footer. Love is 6'10". Those two inches are an enormous difference when it comes to basketball. No one can stop Nowitzki and he can shoot over people. Love, like most other players, is unable to do that. Plus he is nowhere near the offensive player that Nowtizki is anyway.