Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[bwgood77]

Whats the oFG% on those contested shots? Anecdotally it seems to be that a lot of his contests are pretty ineffective, but i dont have the numbers available.

His DFG% is 45.2%

Others he is better than in descending order (there are a lot more, but some of the bigger names):

AD, Nurkic, Biyombo, Powell, Zubac, Lopez twins (of course almost identical), Mitchell Robinson, Marc Gasol, Embiid, Porzingis, Drummond, Markkanen, WCJ, McGee, Aldridge, Collins, Baynes, Nance Jr, Bryant, Horford, Sabonis, Steven Adams, Jokic, Vucevic, Valancianus, Towns, Kanter.

[Saberestar]

Brandon Clarke would have been perfect as a weakside rim protector. Bender wasn't bad as a defender, he could still be useful.

He is not useful even for Maccabi Tel Aviv. Bender is not an NBA player.

[suns12345]

Ayton's fumbling is my main concern when did he turn into Alex Len?

I agree. That's my main frustration at the moment.

His rookie year his hands were money even though there were lots of other issues.

Now his game has rounded out but his hands are poor.

[lilfishi22]

I don't think he has serious issues with his hands. His biggest issue is keeping the ball away from pesky hands. Too often he leaves the ball vulnerable to swipes because he brings it down too low and a lot of the times it's because he's scared to get blocked so he's almost scoping out the situation for a second to see if he can go straight up, if he can pump fake, if he can take one more dribble or if he should go to a post move. It's not a long time but the time he's figuring out the next move is more than enough to get stripped.

[dremill24]

Whats the oFG% on those contested shots? Anecdotally it seems to be that a lot of his contests are pretty ineffective, but i dont have the numbers available.

His DFG% is 45.2%

Others he is better than in descending order (there are a lot more, but some of the bigger names):

AD, Nurkic, Biyombo, Powell, Zubac, Lopez twins (of course almost identical), Mitchell Robinson, Marc Gasol, Embiid, Porzingis, Drummond, Markkanen, WCJ, McGee, Aldridge, Collins, Baynes, Nance Jr, Bryant, Horford, Sabonis, Steven Adams, Jokic, Vucevic, Valancianus, Towns, Kanter.

Do we know the data on that number for shots at the rim?

[bwgood77]

Whats the oFG% on those contested shots? Anecdotally it seems to be that a lot of his contests are pretty ineffective, but i dont have the numbers available.

His DFG% is 45.2%

Others he is better than in descending order (there are a lot more, but some of the bigger names):

AD, Nurkic, Biyombo, Powell, Zubac, Lopez twins (of course almost identical), Mitchell Robinson, Marc Gasol, Embiid, Porzingis, Drummond, Markkanen, WCJ, McGee, Aldridge, Collins, Baynes, Nance Jr, Bryant, Horford, Sabonis, Steven Adams, Jokic, Vucevic, Valancianus, Towns, Kanter.

Do we know the data on that number for shots at the rim?

Less than 5 ft he is at 61.1%

Others he is better than in descending order (again, a lot more, but some of the bigger names):

Biyombo, Gasol, Okongwu, Kanter, AD, Len, Adebayo, WCS, Harrell, Ed Davis, Drummond, Nurkic, Aldridge, Steven Adams, WCJ, Tristan Thompson, Valanciunas, Mason Plumlee, Whiteside, Saric, Baynes, Vucevic, Bamba, Porzingis, Horford, Bryant, Jokic, Markkanen.

He is actually right behind (these guys are all really close) Mitchell Robinson, Towns, Sabonis, Capela, Boucher

Then Jarrett Allen is a bit ahead of those guys and Gobert a bit ahead of him, then Brook Lopez among the best, but the best somewhat big name..Myles Turner (54.5%)

Jokic was 66.5%

The group up to WCS that he has a better % than is really close too like that second list I made with Robinson and Towns.

[TouchPassDario]

Rudy benefits from playing with a deep stable of good creators

[RedIndian]

Another reminder and thing to remember is that Ayton does a lot of things people may not notice...little things that drastically likely impact our defense and offense.

Contesting shots - Lopez and Gobert have been known as two of the best shot blockers or shot contests for a long time. Now Ayton doesn't accumulate a lot of blocks, but the more important thing is contesting the shots. He is still the ONLY guy that places in the top 10 in contesting 2s AND 3s...which shows his defense versatility, even though he struggles on D elsewhere. Make no mistake, him contesting these shots are impacting how many go in.





And then a big impact on offense is getting open shots for Booker and Paul or others off screens where they make a shot coming off it, after getting open due to screen. Now maybe his screens don't look the best, and this is the thing people focus on, but if they are effective, and effective enough to rank 3rd in the NBA on what screens are supposed to be, it really doesn't matter what it looks like (like a guy with a funky shot when it works).

He is one of the top screeners in impacting the guy getting an open shot that goes in.



No one else on the Suns ranks anywhere among the hustle stats.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/

Agreed, I think a huge part of why Ayton often looks tired is that he is working his butt off setting multiple screens in a very pick n roll heavy offense. Doesn't seem like much, but that takes a physical toll.

Offensively, I think DA is still a couple of years away from reaching his true potential. The trouble is that with CP, we've accelerated our winning timeline, and we don't have the time to let Ayton develop offensively. Book and CP are our primary options with the rest of the shots being shared equally between Ayton, Bridges, Cam and Crowder. Bridges and Cam are far closer to their offensive ceilings, and hence more reliable than Ayton at the moment. Like it or not, Ayton's primarily a role player on offense at the moment - putbacks, a few pick and rolls and hustle plays are where he'll get his points. If Ayton wants to be more impactful on offense, he needs to be put in substantial work - improve his ball-handling and improve his 3 point shooting. That's the only way he gets more shots on a playoff team. If he needs the time to slowly develop, then he needs to be shipped to a lottery team again. This team is ready to win, and can't afford his growing pains.

Defensively, I'm not so concerned about his struggles against Harden and Lamelo. Like others have mentioned, both Harden and Lamelo are extremely tricky customers being exceptionally good ball-handlers. The trouble on both occasions was that Ayton got too tight. He should have focused on keeping them in front and using his length to bother them. If they use the step back, live with that shot.

We've seen Ayton excel in a number of matchups already. He plays Jokic and Giannis as well as anyone in the league. He's previously been very good against Lebron as well. The double high-trap with Bridges against Lillard was something he executed very well. I'd have a high degree of confidence in him doing that again with Lillard or Curry in the playoffs.

[SunsRback4Good]

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[Frank Lee]

I’ll agree, Red Indi, especially the time line part. And add to whoever said we did virtually nothing to boister our front line to give DA some help or even a breather. We fell in love with the 3 jacking small ball mentality.

Looks like acquiring Moore was a tremendous reach and a failed attempt for some rim protection. Shank was an ‘oh look’ last minute bargain bin toss in. So we place our C hopes on a GLeaguing Rook, and a couple undersized ‘culture guys’?

I’ve harped this before. As it is apparent to me that DA is 2-3 yrs away from living up to his back Tat.... and for now he’s a sometimes imposing role player who is prone to mental lapses and poor effort. Yet even with a seemingly 70% motor, and 50% brain, plods his way to double doubles and good advanced stats. Frankly, I could give a **** about most of them. I see him every game. Is there a stat showing when doesn’t even try to get a rebound? One for not boxing out? One for running back on D while a shot is in the air? One for passing out of the post when guarded by a player half a foot or more shorter?

To dominate as he could, he must impose his will... I don’t know if we’ll ever see that. Remember his goal??? ...that ‘second contract’

Try as I might, this underachieving slow thinker leaves my bucket half empty.

You see, I’ve got a time line too. I’m into my SIXTH Fn DECADE following this team and have little patience for halfassier play/effort when we are surprisingly positioned to make a legit run again. The Boy Wander is tremendously important to the overall success of this team.... and sadly, he’s the only true big we have.

[TouchPassDario]

another game we lose without BIG FELLA

Elite top10 impact ceiling.

[RedIndian]

Man, Ayton is so confusing. 3 quarters of his usual weak play followed by an absolutely tremendous 4th quarter.

[Adrao]

Ayton is... young. Just that.

Young players are irregular, so DA matches and season could be a rollercaster. He needs time and we will have one of the best Cs in the league.

[dmastro32]

Man, Ayton is so confusing. 3 quarters of his usual weak play followed by an absolutely tremendous 4th quarter.

I felt he played pretty good the first half of the 1st quarter. Had 6 points in the first couple minutes of the game.

[sunsbg]

Great pass.

https://youtu.be/7DCNg1ZH53Q?t=91

Also White will think twice before driving inside next game.

[Saberestar]

Great pass.

https://youtu.be/7DCNg1ZH53Q?t=91

Also White will think twice before driving inside next game.

I really like his short/mid-range shot.

He needs to have at least a foot in the paint to be effective, but if he is close enough to the basket he is money from there. He scored three of those against the Bulls.

[TouchPassDario]

Anyone else notice a little more arc and touch on his 4th quarter short jumpers? Even the free throws seemed less like his typical low trajectory this game.

When he gets a little arc, the shot is much softer, and it makes me think he can shoot from distance better. He tends to throw the ball at the rim typically.

[sunsbg]

Great pass.

https://youtu.be/7DCNg1ZH53Q?t=91

Also White will think twice before driving inside next game.

I really like his short/mid-range shot.

He needs to have at least a foot in the paint to be effective, but if he is close enough to the basket he is money from there. He scored three of those against the Bulls.

Yeah, I did complain in that other general thread that he's not taking those mid-range shots anymore despite even back to his rookie year it was obvious he likes them. He took several against the Bulls, missed some, made some, no idea if it was a game plan and if it continues over the next games. I think they should ask him to take at least 3-4 longer distance shots a game and use his passing skills to cutting players, which I think is underrated part of his game.

[Wilber85]

Funny there is a bunch of trolls on the General Board bashing Ayton.

Doncic won't lead Dallas to a championship. I am calling it!

[sunsbg]

Funny there is a bunch of trolls on the General Board bashing Ayton.

Doncic won't lead Dallas to a championship. I am calling it!

A championship is not won by one player dominating the ball, that's for sure. While Doncic is better than Ayton there is nothing in his current style of play that makes him more of a winning player than Ayton. Yes, he won some titles in Europe, but it was by playing a different type of basketball on already good teams. Future success in NBA for both depends greatly on the surrounding players.