2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

Crowder, if we're looking to shed salary quick without having to give up much if anything. It's really about 2023 when we will hit the luxury tax and Sarver could probably stand to see $9-18m off the books to help with that. But it's not solving any long term LT issues Sarver might have since Cam's new deal with hit in 2024. My point is that if we could move one guy for LT purposes, it'll be Crowder since he's a lot more tradeable.

I know Monty loves Saric too. But if we think Cam is ready to start and we have ok depth there, Crowder might be a guy they could trade. It's a little scary though. I think he's a lot more important than many realize....and the fact that Cam is there gives us depth. If Crowder was gone and Cam starting our entire frontcourt depth including the 3 is weak going forward. Nobody really.

But if we are $24 million in the tax, getting rid of a $10 million contract is like getting rid of $34 million in actual cost.

Those escalating penalty hikes the more you are over add up fast.

If we are $24 million over as calculated, the first $14 over would cost us $26 million total and then next $10 million over after that, $34 million.

So I'll be pretty surprised if they don't try to dump one of them because we will be over $200 million. That # assumed us keeping Shamet though..and we may not and have a minimum guy instead OR sign him for less than was listed above.

Im guessing Sarver sells in the next few years the value of the team has gone up quite a bit and he can get as good a return on his investment as possible the tax is going to be too much for him to bear, this is a billionaires game not someone with 100s of millions. The tax will force Bobby to move on, be best for all parties the Suns who likely get a high profile owner and Sarver walks with a couple billion.

Maybe, but he seems to love the team and being the owner and now they are finally good.

Tax really shouldn't be a problem if we don't guarantee CP3's contract in year 3 while also Saric and Crowder come off. We will have Cam Johnson starting 2nd contract but I don't think he will make more than $15 million if he extends next summer, particularly if he comes off the bench all year.

[lilfishi22]

Does anyone feel like the cap should be raised since nothing is stopping big market teams like the Lakers and Nets from getting three MVP level players on their team?

I just feel like it should be much easier for a team that drafted players to be able to hold on to them without worry about cap space?

The cap gets raised every year (except a recent one due to COVID). You know what this results in? Increased average salaries. It doesn't do anything.

I kind of think max contracts should be less than 25%-35% of the cap though. That's kind of ridiculous. I know people think these guys should be paid..the big stars...many think there shouldn't be a limit but they are kind of ridiculous. But when each team gets so much BRI they would have to do something...if they lowered maxes it would probably be raising minimums or rookie scales.

It would just be nice if we had an owner that was worth at least at least a few billion (not counting team ownership) so it wouldn't be that big of a cost relatively speaking to go into the tax...but when he is only worth maybe a half billion or something....60 million is a lot...that's like 10-20% of his net worth or something. An owner worth $6 billion, where $60 million is more like 1-2%...not that big of deal...and that still might be on the lower end of owners.

We should make a lot of it back in revenue.

Lowering the maxes (to 25% super max for example) would also allow the big market teams to potentially have 4 max level players. The 30- 35% super max kind of limits you to 3. Imagine the Nets with an extra guy like say...Klay for example. Rich teams/owners would love that

[sunsbg]

So if DA doesn't accept what Suns offer him, let's say 30M/y, does it mean he's not all about the money as many thought after the 'getting to the second contract' quote, but he also demands more respect ?

You mean more money? So to answer the first part of your post, wouldn’t that mean he is all about the money?

I don’t think anyone interpreted his “getting to the second contract” to mean that he just wants to get any second contract. It was almost guaranteed that he could be a massive bust and he would still likely get at least a vet min contract after his first one.

You know injuries happen right. Doesn't it make more sense for someone who's all about the money to take 30M+ and leave 2.5M/y on the table, which may be the case with Mikal, without taking any risk. I think he would already taken such offer if it wasn't for the weight of being the first pick and others in his draft getting the max.

[Bogyo]

Looking at that tax bill, if Saric and Smith for Thad was on the table, I think we would do it just to get out of Saric's salary next year. I think there is a good chance we give someone a first later just to take Saric. Or slight possibility we trade Crowder for no salary or at least not much salary in return.

I do not think we have a tax problem for 21/22 our problem will be in 22/23. If we trade for Thad we help in 22/23 not this year. We get him to play for us this year but we also might get Saric back sometime before the playoffs this year. I like the idea of keeping Saric around along with Smith so we do not mess with the chemistry and minute distribution of this team. We will have to make a decision on McGee as well for 22/23. If Smith shows us something and Saric comes back healthy, we may want to keep them and not resign McGee.

James Jones has a lot on his plate. We have a very talented very deep roster, which I expect everyone would like James to keep. I really can't stand the super team rosters with a few making all the money. When injuries come they are screwed.

Hopefully James can get Ayton and Shamet signed to contracts that will allow us to keep this team together for several years. I am excited about watching them play in a couple of days.

Go Suns

Yeah, the salary problem is next season, if that, and I'm pretty sure it's only a 1 season thing, if that.
If that 1: we trade Saric for Thad and he is an expiring, so lowers our bill. We only have this season and next to win with CP, remember that. We could have Thad expiring, Shamet expiring, McGee expiring and not extending Stix. That's like 25 mill - which could (should!?!) be covered by vet min type guys (McGee could come back for that, or other guys - Zeller signed with Portland for the vet min, there will be guys like him for sure) or other guys who got the short end of the stick in the game of musical chairs (Monk, Nunn, Schroder, etc...). This is JJ's job.
If that 2: after next season we don't have Saric either way, Crowder either way, and CP is almost 40 on a deal that is not fully guaranteed. We are not keeping him (especially not at that salary) unless we win it all the previous year. You can bet on that. So in this case that is almost 50 mill (18 for Crowder and Saric, about 30 for CP) expiring. While the cap will be up, and we'll be one season away from the new TV deal(s). MLE and Bi-Annual could also help here iirc.

Is it the easiest task in the world? No. Is it a totally impossible move to pull? Hardly. I'd say it's a middle of the road difficulty task.
We could have 1 season with about 20 mill in tax, and Sarver will (could easily) pay that, especially if we are Finals bound again. Just remember: we have this season and next to win it all. If we don't CP is gone, for better or worse. Strike that iron while it's hot.

[bwgood77]

So if DA doesn't accept what Suns offer him, let's say 30M/y, does it mean he's not all about the money as many thought after the 'getting to the second contract' quote, but he also demands more respect ?

You mean more money? So to answer the first part of your post, wouldn’t that mean he is all about the money?

I don’t think anyone interpreted his “getting to the second contract” to mean that he just wants to get any second contract. It was almost guaranteed that he could be a massive bust and he would still likely get at least a vet min contract after his first one.

You know injuries happen right. Doesn't it make more sense for someone who's all about the money to take 30M+ and leave 2.5M/y on the table, which may be the case with Mikal, without taking any risk. I think he would already taken such offer if it wasn't for the weight of being the first pick and others in his draft getting the max.

Jalen Rose used to be on with Bill Simmons all the time on Grantland and they would talk and Rose talked about how all the players talk about "getting to that second contract"...now it's kind of more like "getting past the rookie deal to the big payday" but it's also a way to know you've made it in the NBA. I think it was pretty obvious that Ayton just heard the NBA lingo of how people talk about it and that's how it came out.

It's fairly evident and obvious with his work he's not only about money. But it is about respect with these guys among their peers. And a lot of it is their agents too. I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if Ayton didn't even know the details of how much money it is and the percentages of the cap and increases you get and all that, which you'd know every detail of if you had huge concerns about it. I wouldn't be that surprised if he would just accept 5/$150 or whatever but his agent is telling him to hold out at least until near the deadline, but possibly to next summer.

The max gets up to about $40 million in it's last year, which, lets face it, is absurd. And that's the 5/$172 without the All NBA for 2 years, MVP or DPOY, which take it to $207.

The former is the case with Trae...it is 5/$172 but it can jump.

Luka's, for example, the triggers already have been hit so his contract starts at $35 million and ends at $47 million.

These contracts are just getting crazy. I think if they matched a 4 year max from another team next year the raises can only be 5% instead of 8% and it would be about 4/$127 or so. If they could do 5 it would get into the low 160s.

I can totally see not wanting to give him the max looking at the #s, but I don't think there is much of a chance he hits any escalators so it wouldn't jump up to $207 or whatever. Pretty sure he'd have to hit All NBA this year which is highly improbable.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Only two starters in the NBA last season shot +70% in the restricted area, +50% in the mid-range, +40% on three-pointers:

Kevin Durant
Mikal Bridges

Phoenix’s $90 million extension for Bridges has serious untapped potential to be a steal very soon.

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Lol at some of the people out there ( GB, etc) saying that Mikal is overrated and that he's overpaid and not much better than Allen Crabbe!!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Overtime (@overtime) Tweeted:
MIKAL BRIDGES GOT PAID

Four-year, $90M rookie contract extension FULLY GUARANTEED

(per @wojespn, via @CP3)
https://t.co/odgkvCKzSt

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But then you have Ayton already exploring other career choices as a result of the disrespect of not being made a priority! Or perhaps Saver told him that he couldn't afford the full max, And Ayton would have to make up the difference with a second job???

Overtime (@overtime) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton getting that side hustle @DeandreAyton (via gerry_m21/IG) https://t.co/cwAdR737qS

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[Mulhollanddrive]

This is what a blueprint may look like for next season:

Paul, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton
Payne, Shamet, Smith
7 x Minimums

That would roughly equal $151m in Salaries, $9m over the Luxury Tax, $15m Luxury Tax Bill.

[m1chal]

Happy for Mikal, now get Ayton's deal done and we're good to go.

[Mulhollanddrive]

What time is the deadline today?

Here's my takeaway for the Ayton holdup.

The difference between 25% and 30% is about $7m. If we get repeater tax status during his contract and are $15m+ over the luxury cap that $7m would essentially cost Sarver $35m ($7m x 1 in salary and $7m x 4 in luxury tax) per year.

We have to keep in mind from a fan's point of view if Sarver is paying a mammoth amount in taxes it increases the chances we will have to just let Chris Paul expire instead of replacing him with another star, so you can see why this seemingly small detail has to be considered for a win-win outcome for everyone.

[Frank Lee]

Spoiler:

Looking at that tax bill, if Saric and Smith for Thad was on the table, I think we would do it just to get out of Saric's salary next year. I think there is a good chance we give someone a first later just to take Saric. Or slight possibility we trade Crowder for no salary or at least not much salary in return.

I do not think we have a tax problem for 21/22 our problem will be in 22/23. If we trade for Thad we help in 22/23 not this year. We get him to play for us this year but we also might get Saric back sometime before the playoffs this year. I like the idea of keeping Saric around along with Smith so we do not mess with the chemistry and minute distribution of this team. We will have to make a decision on McGee as well for 22/23. If Smith shows us something and Saric comes back healthy, we may want to keep them and not resign McGee.

James Jones has a lot on his plate. We have a very talented very deep roster, which I expect everyone would like James to keep. I really can't stand the super team rosters with a few making all the money. When injuries come they are screwed.

Hopefully James can get Ayton and Shamet signed to contracts that will allow us to keep this team together for several years. I am excited about watching them play in a couple of days.

Go Suns

Yes, this year isn't a problem since Ayton, Bridges and Shamet will still be on their rookie deals.

This is the ‘all in’ yr. we made two significant upgrades on a contending team. What more do we expect? Ayton is going nowhere, unless he lets this little extension delay get in his head. Just play ball mofo. It will all take care of itself.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I just read no deal for Ayton, I actually don't mind it and think he'll be a beast this season.

[Saberestar]

I just read no deal for Ayton, I actually don't mind it and think he'll be a beast this season.

Not official yet, they can agree on a deal in the next hours.

[Saberestar]

Personally I am not bothered at all about salaries, luxury tax and everything that could happen after this season which has not even started yet.

Multiple things can change in a year, we will see what to do and what not to do AFTER this season. Pretty sure that James Jones have an idea in mind, but he will adjust to whatever happens this season.

[BobbieL]

This is what a blueprint may look like for next season:

Paul, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton
Payne, Shamet, Smith
7 x Minimums

That would roughly equal $151m in Salaries, $9m over the Luxury Tax, $15m Luxury Tax Bill.

I can live with that too. You have that core of the first five players -- thats strong right there. You can fill in with role players and veterans on minimum level deals.

Maybe the Suns didn't get the vet minimum deals this year like I thought they would - but another good year and if Ayton signs, they will next year.

I just am not sure how you will get a team to take Saric when he is coming off an injury. Crowder after this year can probably be moved. Thats why I do wonder if the Suns would ever offer the Spurs a heavily protected FRP to take Smith and Saric.

[nevetsov]

Overtime (@overtime) Tweeted:
MIKAL BRIDGES GOT PAID

Four-year, $90M rookie contract extension FULLY GUARANTEED

(per @wojespn, via @CP3)
https://t.co/odgkvCKzSt

Read on Twitter

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But then you have Ayton already exploring other career choices as a result of the disrespect of not being made a priority! Or perhaps Saver told him that he couldn't afford the full max, And Ayton would have to make up the difference with a second job???

Overtime (@overtime) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton getting that side hustle @DeandreAyton (via gerry_m21/IG) https://t.co/cwAdR737qS

Read on Twitter

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Is that old footage? Looks like Jevon Carter at the entry next to Payne, and Galloway in the corner. Plus a healthy Saric jumping around.

[BobbieL]

Personally I am not bothered at all about salaries, luxury tax and everything that could happen after this season which has not even started yet.

Multiple things can change in a year, we will see what to do and what not to do AFTER this season. Pretty sure that James Jones have an idea in mind, but he will adjust to whatever happens this season.

The one thing Jones and Sarver and the team did this offseason - even if Ayton is not signed to an extension - is they limited expense for next summer. McGee, one year deal; Nader - team option; Shamet, option; Kaminsky and Payton, one year deals. So they did show some fiscal sanity and long term thinking - knowing with Bridges and Ayton, they are a luxury tax team for 22/23 season so why ad more expense than necessary.

[LV-Suns]

I have a bad feeling Ayton will see less money next year, should've cashed in on the playoff run.

[Saberestar]

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[matt131]

Maybe I'm just not informed enough on JJJ, but this seems like a lot of money for a player who hasn't accomplished much

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