Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[Waylay13]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

[sunsbum]

The franchise and fans have to get over the mentality that players on a terrible team are too good to be traded.

I remember reading people say Len would be a deal breaker for Cousins, Goodwin would be a deal breaker for George, Chriss would be a deal breaker for Porzingis, Warren would be a deal breaker for Irving etc...

Do you have any actual proof that any of those players were in play for our players? Cause I'm guessing they weren't. I doubt anyone on this board ever said Len is a deal breaker in a Cousins swap.

[RaisingArizona]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

[Waylay13]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

[lilfishi22]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I hate this idea that the big bad Warriors are around so we cannot make any moves that would indicate we're trying to be competitive now. I'm not even talking about competitive with the Warriors, I'm just talking about a competitive team. No one I've come across on these boards has advocated trading our entire future for a lost cause (a run at the Warriors) either. I get the timeline but I honestly don't think most people expected the rise of a fresh face barely 21 year old Booker to have developed into the elite scoring threat he is in less than 3 seasons. Likewise with TJ having developed into an efficient and reliable scorer while also making good improvements on defense. With the rise of these two players, I think we need to revisit this timeline which we set a few years ago and consider accelerating it.

Most companies have a 5 year strategic plan and also yearly objectives which they look to meet in order to achieve the vision set out in the 5 year plan. But they don't just blindly stick to the 5 year plan. Good companies review the 5 year strategic plan every couple of years to ensure it's still fit for purpose and still relevant in the constantly changing the landscape. This is where we're at right now. We're basically two years into our 5 year strategic plan aka "the timeline" and we need to review this plan.

[RaisingArizona]

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

[bigfoot]

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

Hear!! Hear!! ... T-wolves had two decent players in Towns and Wiggins and bring in the vets to make the push. We had better being doing the same next year in the free agent market or this year in the trade market. Bring in some quality support for Booker and Warren.

[darealjuice]

I hate this idea that the big bad Warriors are around so we cannot make any moves that would indicate we're trying to be competitive now. I'm not even talking about competitive with the Warriors, I'm just talking about a competitive team. No one I've come across on these boards has advocated trading our entire future for a lost cause (a run at the Warriors) either. I get the timeline but I honestly don't think most people expected the rise of a fresh face barely 21 year old Booker to have developed into the elite scoring threat he is in less than 3 seasons. Likewise with TJ having developed into an efficient and reliable scorer while also making good improvements on defense. With the rise of these two players, I think we need to revisit this timeline which we set a few years ago and consider accelerating it.

Most companies have a 5 year strategic plan and also yearly objectives which they look to meet in order to achieve the vision set out in the 5 year plan. But they don't just blindly stick to the 5 year plan. Good companies review the 5 year strategic plan every couple of years to ensure it's still fit for purpose and still relevant in the constantly changing the landscape. This is where we're at right now. We're basically two years into our 5 year strategic plan aka "the timeline" and we need to review this plan.

What exactly do you have in mind when you think of accelerating? Booker looks like he can be an All Star sooner than later, so I can see the appeal to wanting to build more around him now, but he's still a good 4-5 years from reaching his prime. TJ will be on the lower end of top 10 SFs if he continues this level of play all year, but he probably won't break into the top tier unless he shows improvement in at least one of 3-point shooting and playmaking. Outside of that we have a major hole at point guard that will cost a lot of fill as no team is itching to trade their top point guard, until Chriss and/or Bender start to show consistency/improvement we have another hole at PF, and our centers are either on their way out (Monroe, Len) or can't handle big minutes for a competitive team (Chandler). We have a lot of holes to fill, and outside of Booker we really don't have a piece that we can definitively say is a top 3 option on a good team, so I don't get the rush to accelerate things this year.

To me, we'll at least continue this path through the end of the year until our draft pick is solidified. We might see Monroe/Chandler get traded around the deadline in a salary dump for a stop gap PG, but that's about the only move I see us making this year. If Bender or Chriss looked like they were taking the next step this year, or if Jackson looked like a bit better and was able to share the floor with TJ without killing spacing I'd be a bit more on board, but at this point I see 1.75 solidified pieces, 3 high/decent potential prospects, and a bunch of back-ups/dump-able contracts, which doesn't scream "accelerate the timeline" to me. I think we'll address a long-term solution at point guard this offseason by trade/FA, draft a center with our pick, and if things aren't panning out at PF with Quese/Chriss by next year's trade deadline I think we'll address it then.

[darealjuice]

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

They were both brought on board when the Suns had multiple all stars. Who do we have that's even close to an all star besides Booker?

[RaisingArizona]

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

They were both brought on board when the Suns had multiple all stars. Who do we have that's even close to an all star besides Booker?

Marion was our only all star in the SSOL era before Nash joined.

[darealjuice]

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

They were both brought on board when the Suns had multiple all stars. Who do we have that's even close to an all star besides Booker?

Marion was our only all star in the SSOL era before Nash joined.

You really gonna act like Amare wasn't already looking like one of the next big time PF/Cs despite it only being in his second year and JJ didn't look like he was gonna be an all star? This team doesn't compare to that team All Star accolades or not, don't be disingenuous to try getting your point across.

[bwgood77]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

That's what sucks (or can be really good depending on who you are a fan of) about the NBA. Well built teams are usually good for nearly a decade.....and the Warriors being pretty good and breaking a record of all time wins in a season was crazy and it looked like they could probably be on top for a good 5 years. Then Durant decided to join them.

Then of course a bunch of stars consolidate on the Rockets, Thunder, Pelicans and Timberwolves. So being on the outside sucks.

The thing about the Suns is, until 2011 or so, we were rarely ever one of the worst teams...certainly not in multiple seasons...we had always drafted and traded well enough to always have a relevant team at least in the playoff picture. When Sarver bought the team unfortunately it was right when we became a juggernaut winning 62 games, which is extremely rare, but it was the first thing he saw.

Then depleting ourselves of draft picks is something you can't do because you need young players and rookie contracts and a young player pool.

As many busts as people talk about here, you need to keep as many draft picks as possible because only a percentage of them pan out.

Players being busts doesn't mean you should get rid of or trade or sell draft picks altogether...it means the opposite..you better have drafted enough players to be able to absorb a few busts without it sinking you.

[Revived]

Pistons have lost 7 in a row...would they perhaps be interested in trading the expiring Avery Bradley?

[bwgood77]

I understand the premise but I still hate it.

You know what i really hate treading water with no hope for a championship. From the moment that we traded Nash we should have started to try to rebuild and saved ourselves the torment of the Morsii.

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

That's hogwash. They had a legit chance in 9 before KJ got injured. They easily probably would have won that year. Barkley gave them more publicity and many fans suddenly became fans in 92 or 93 so may think that, but they were firmly in the mix every year. Barkley was to put them over the top and he never was able to. 93 they were lucky to get to the finals being down 0-2 in the first round and getting a lot of favorable calls in the WCF. They had the talent, but with Barkley, for all the talent you got, you also got a guy that liked to party and expect things to work out because he'd be ready for games. And most games he did leave it all on the court, but he could have been more serious about it.

But with that team, the team was already a serious contender that had been to the WCF twice before adding Barkley. They won as many games the 4 years prior to Barkley as they did the 4 years with him.

Our team is so far short of pieces right now it would be short sighted to trade part of what could add to a brighter future for a little better chance to win a few games now.

[bwgood77]

Both of the times the Suns had a legitimate chance for a championship were when veteran stars (Barkley, Nash) were brought on board. 5 years of tankapooloza hasn't done much for any team's chances of winning it all.

They were both brought on board when the Suns had multiple all stars. Who do we have that's even close to an all star besides Booker?

Marion was our only all star in the SSOL era before Nash joined.

You might be forgetting a guy we had that wasn't an all star but was rookie of the year and obviously a budding all star ready to make a big jump. I mean it's amazing people forgot about Amare, but I was looking at his 3rd year #s in comparison to Booker's the other day and he obviously blew Booker away across the board.

Of course he was also like top 3 of Simmons' trade value column, dominating KG, having a monster series for the Suns, etc....but yeah, we had another guy other than Marion that was pretty good, unless you're just trying to be technical or give credit to Nash for all of Amare's play.

[Qwigglez]

Wait. We're cool with waiting 3 years to be competitive? When did we become the Cleveland Browns?

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I hate this idea that the big bad Warriors are around so we cannot make any moves that would indicate we're trying to be competitive now. I'm not even talking about competitive with the Warriors, I'm just talking about a competitive team. No one I've come across on these boards has advocated trading our entire future for a lost cause (a run at the Warriors) either. I get the timeline but I honestly don't think most people expected the rise of a fresh face barely 21 year old Booker to have developed into the elite scoring threat he is in less than 3 seasons. Likewise with TJ having developed into an efficient and reliable scorer while also making good improvements on defense. With the rise of these two players, I think we need to revisit this timeline which we set a few years ago and consider accelerating it.

Most companies have a 5 year strategic plan and also yearly objectives which they look to meet in order to achieve the vision set out in the 5 year plan. But they don't just blindly stick to the 5 year plan. Good companies review the 5 year strategic plan every couple of years to ensure it's still fit for purpose and still relevant in the constantly changing the landscape. This is where we're at right now. We're basically two years into our 5 year strategic plan aka "the timeline" and we need to review this plan.

Okay, so here's the problem with this 2020 timeline garbage. We are assuming that Chriss/Bender will eventually turn into quality players. Assuming Jackson will become one as well, and we hit on another draft pick or two. The problem is, Chriss/Bender may end up being the next Len on our team. Jackson may never be able to fix his shot and become the next MKG. We may miss on our next draft pick or the following one, what do we do then? Move the timeline to 2022? What if the Wolves become the next Warriors and get another top tier all-star on their team? Do we roll over and wait some more?

Someone mentioned Devin Booker being in his prime at 27, so we are just suppose to wait til he's in his prime years before deciding this is the time we should seriously put talent around him? Sounds a lot like what the Kings did for Boogie and look where that got them.

This timeline 2020 thing is a slippery slope and one misstep and we can set our franchise back even further.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

They were both brought on board when the Suns had multiple all stars. Who do we have that's even close to an all star besides Booker?

Marion was our only all star in the SSOL era before Nash joined.

You really gonna act like Amare wasn't already looking like one of the next big time PF/Cs despite it only being in his second year and JJ didn't look like he was gonna be an all star? This team doesn't compare to that team All Star accolades or not, don't be disingenuous to try getting your point across.

Whoa whoa whoa hold the phone. JJ certainly did not look like he was going to be an all-star. He was disappointing for several years before 04-05. We all wanted him to take Penny's spot but he never managed it. Inconsistent play, low intensity, missed shots. Nobody was calling him a future all-star. Not his rookie year, when he was traded after half a season for two bench players. Not during his second season, when at the age of 21, he averaged 10, 3 and 3 in 28 MPG, shooting 40% from the field. Not even during his third season, when he led the post-Marbury Suns in MPG with 40, averaged 16, 5 and 4, and shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3. JJ really broke out as a shooter the year Nash joined the team, and then broke out as a player with the Hawks in his fifth and sixth NBA seasons.

I was posting on Suns boards back then buddy, and no one, NOT NO ONE was saying that JJ looked like a future All-Star before his fourth NBA season, and even then such talk barely registered as a whisper. The guy was a distant fourth banana behind Nash-Amare-Marion. PLENTY of posters assumed he was a bust back then and were ready to move on.

So yeah, I'm familiar with the attitudes currently prevailing on this message board. NOTE that not only did the Celtics give up on Johnson too soon, but when we S&T'd him to Atlanta, we traded him for second-year player Boris Diaw -- whom Atlanta similarly gave up on way too early after a disappointing rookie season. It's not a new thing. Young players usually take time to develop!

But yeah, Amare looked like a beast pretty much immediately. Every player is different.

[darealjuice]

Whoa whoa whoa hold the phone. JJ certainly did not look like he was going to be an all-star. He was disappointing for several years before 04-05. We all wanted him to take Penny's spot but he never managed it. Inconsistent play, low intensity, missed shots. Nobody was calling him a future all-star. Not his rookie year, when he was traded after half a season for two bench players. Not during his second season, when at the age of 21, he averaged 10, 3 and 3 in 28 MPG, shooting 40% from the field. Not even during his third season, when he led the post-Marbury Suns in MPG with 40, averaged 16, 5 and 4, and shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3. JJ really broke out as a shooter the year Nash joined the team, and then broke out as a player with the Hawks in his fifth and sixth NBA seasons.

I was posting on Suns boards back then buddy, and no one, NOT NO ONE was saying that JJ looked like a future All-Star before his fourth NBA season, and even then such talk barely registered as a whisper. The guy was a distant fourth banana behind Nash-Amare-Marion. PLENTY of posters assumed he was a bust back then and were ready to move on.

So yeah, I'm familiar with the attitudes currently prevailing on this message board.

That's cool that's what the message board thought, I never said that's what this message board thought though... I wasn't here, so I wouldn't know. I'm talking about the season prior to acquiring Nash it appeared the Matrix, STAT, and JJ had all established themselves as players. People here may not have felt like he'd be an All Star at the time, but he was my pops' favorite player back in the day and we saw him coming well before he left, so that's where I get him being a future all star from. Plus, regardless of if he looked like a future all star at the time he was one lol.

The point is that team was ahead of where we are now. Booker is about on par with what STAT was, no one is Marion level, and TJ is about Joe Johnson level. We're not ready for our "Steve Nash" yet.

[AtheJ415]

it is called the "timeline" for most teams it is simply called a 5 year plan. Two years ago the team finally said that they were going to stop trying to tread water and just get in the playoffs and really step back and rebuild and build a team that would be making a run at a championship. The team has stated that they build toward being a competitive in 2020 and going after a championship. Right now now matter if we traded away all of our future we still wouldnt be able to make a run at the warriors we dont have the players to get that far. So since we cant be competitive right now against the Warriors why not build a team that might be a championship contender in 2020?

I hate this idea that the big bad Warriors are around so we cannot make any moves that would indicate we're trying to be competitive now. I'm not even talking about competitive with the Warriors, I'm just talking about a competitive team. No one I've come across on these boards has advocated trading our entire future for a lost cause (a run at the Warriors) either. I get the timeline but I honestly don't think most people expected the rise of a fresh face barely 21 year old Booker to have developed into the elite scoring threat he is in less than 3 seasons. Likewise with TJ having developed into an efficient and reliable scorer while also making good improvements on defense. With the rise of these two players, I think we need to revisit this timeline which we set a few years ago and consider accelerating it.

Most companies have a 5 year strategic plan and also yearly objectives which they look to meet in order to achieve the vision set out in the 5 year plan. But they don't just blindly stick to the 5 year plan. Good companies review the 5 year strategic plan every couple of years to ensure it's still fit for purpose and still relevant in the constantly changing the landscape. This is where we're at right now. We're basically two years into our 5 year strategic plan aka "the timeline" and we need to review this plan.

Okay, so here's the problem with this 2020 timeline garbage. We are assuming that Chriss/Bender will eventually turn into quality players. Assuming Jackson will become one as well, and we hit on another draft pick or two. The problem is, Chriss/Bender may end up being the next Len on our team. Jackson may never be able to fix his shot and become the next MKG. We may miss on our next draft pick or the following one, what do we do then? Move the timeline to 2022? What if the Wolves become the next Warriors and get another top tier all-star on their team? Do we roll over and wait some more?

Someone mentioned Devin Booker being in his prime at 27, so we are just suppose to wait til he's in his prime years before deciding this is the time we should seriously put talent around him? Sounds a lot like what the Kings did for Boogie and look where that got them.

This timeline 2020 thing is a slippery slope and one misstep and we can set our franchise back even further.

No we're not. Every team is a couple players away if those players are star level. What people are assuming is that one of whoever we get this year and one of a combination of somebody else on the team (whether Warren, Jackson, Chriss, Bender, etc.), or somebody signed in the next 2 offseasons for what is likely a max contract, becomes a star.

It's not required that each and every pick become a quality player or star unless we are talking about competing with the prime Warriors.

[AtheJ415]

Pistons have lost 7 in a row...would they perhaps be interested in trading the expiring Avery Bradley?

If they are, we shouldn't be interested. He likely removes the possibility of us offering a max for the next 2 offseasons, while allowing us to just win enough games to jump up to 7th in the reverse rankings. Neither are ideal. Not to mention he is a soon to be FA.