2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Ghost of Kleine]

So we pay Shamet before Ayton???

We basically chose to pay everyone before Ayton! Also, Johnson's and Smith's options will come due on the 31st. So since we can't really negotiate again until the summer, pretty much everyone will get paid before Ayton! What a huge slap in the face this has to be for Ayton amongst his peers. Regardless of it being a reasonable business strategy or not, It's terrible in terms of optics!

- Ayton will surely leave now out of contempt for the disrespect of the whole situation. He won't want to play for " Saver the cheapskate " at all after this season, Money or not! If they try to match, he'll just take the qualifying offer or choose a 1+1 deal ( pre arranged in restricted free agency) to the team he wants! Play out his season here, And then bolt next summer.

- The word of how poorly Saver and our front office handled this negotiation as well as how poorly they treated Ayton will not be lost upon the players around the league either as they all talk and prioritize RESPECT in their free agency/ trade considerations. We'll likely not see another quality name sign here again whilst Sarver is connected to the franchise!

- The chemistry and camaraderie is going to be severely damaged now for sure. Saver just dismantled any promising cohesion that this team had as our season will be totally overshadowed by numerous distractions now.

Best case scenario now is in that Ayton might be willing ( for the fans) to do a sign ' n' trade with some team so that we could still be competitive. But then again, I can't see why he'd have any motivation whatsoever to help Saver and our front office that blatantly rejected him in terms of value. He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers! This was a huge screw up on Savers' part. And definitely will push us back to mediocrity in the eyes of everyone around the league.

[GoodBehavior]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

This makes me feel (slightly) better. It's not as disrespectful as underpaying him.

[dremill24]

So we pay Shamet before Ayton???

We basically chose to pay everyone before Ayton! Also, Johnson's and Smith's options will come due on the 31st. So since we can't really negotiate again until the summer, pretty much everyone will get paid before Ayton! What a huge slap in the face this has to be for Ayton amongst his peers. Regardless of it being a reasonable business strategy or not, It's terrible in terms of optics!

- Ayton will surely leave now out of contempt for the disrespect of the whole situation. He won't want to play for " Saver the cheapskate " at all after this season, Money or not! If they try to match, he'll just take the qualifying offer or choose a 1+1 deal ( pre arranged in restricted free agency) to the team he wants! Play out his season here, And then bolt next summer.

- The word of how poorly Saver and our front office handled this negotiation as well as how poorly they treated Ayton will not be lost upon the players around the league either as they all talk and prioritize RESPECT in their free agency/ trade considerations. We'll likely not see another quality name sign here again whilst Sarver is connected to the franchise!

- The chemistry and camaraderie is going to be severely damaged now for sure. Saver just dismantled any promising cohesion that this team had as our season will be totally overshadowed by numerous distractions now.

Best case scenario now is in that Ayton might be willing ( for the fans) to do a sign ' n' trade with some team so that we could still be competitive. But then again, I can't see why he'd have any motivation whatsoever to help Saver and our front office that blatantly rejected him in terms of value. He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers! This was a huge screw up on Savers' part. And definitely will push us back to mediocrity in the eyes of everyone around the league.

This is satire right? lol

[suns12345]

Again **** Sarver and I hope he sells.


But a couple things im really curious about. I do kind of suspect there might be some people in the org that aren't 100% sold on DeAndre for whatever reason. I wonder how close they got to trading him last year. I also wonder Booker's thoughts on him because I never got the sense Devin loved him and he doesn't seem to go out of his way to praise him like Paul seems to.

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I would've give DA the max, but mostly from a PR perspective.

Basketball wise, his longest streak of consistently "max level" play was for about 10 games in the playoffs.

Now, i'll admit, him playing well in the playoffs is a great sign, but in a vacuum he hasn't been anywhere close to a max player for most of his career.

And really, if he doesn't progress on offense significantly, one CP3 retires, he ain't worth all that. basically

2021 Playoff DA - worth the Max
DA for the rest of his career - worth about half that IMO

[dremill24]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

This makes me feel (slightly) better. It's not as disrespectful as underpaying him.

A lower annual salary is disrespectful (there's that word again lmao) but a lower overall contract value is not?

[Fo-Real]

Spoiler:

I hate this but let's be real, Ayton goes as our guards go!! If they aren't getting him open rolls and spoon fed set ups, he is just a great defensive minded big. You take away the sweet set ups and just let him go get his points on his own like dudes like Embiid, Joker, Towns or Nurkic, and he is an average big on offense!!

I don't know about spoon-fed. He attracts a fair amount of attention and it opens up our shooters. Gobert is probably an average offense big. IMO Ayton is way better than Gobert on that end.

He attracts attention because he isn't poor on offense like Gobert, Ayton is at least a threat to score while Gobert is a beast on defense. Can you say he is head and shoulders above a guy like McGee on ofense?? Our guards are gonna make McGee look good as hell this year and he isn't worth a pittance of a max contract at all. I said I hated this and wish we just maxed him but I can see an argument as to why not. As Book and Chris said in interviews during the playoffs, they have both been all over his ass to perform and both plus Payne have helped him look more offensively advanced than he really is.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

?t=q8t2GXXfO_Hkx6V8MaraSQ&s=19

Booker weighing in on the news of the day

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[TeamTragic]

This is not the way to deal with a team that just went to the **** Finals. I can't believe there's still people who stand by this a*****.

We offered Ayton a 4 year max and he wanted 5.

Don't believe the bull.

[GoodBehavior]

Spoiler:

I hate this but let's be real, Ayton goes as our guards go!! If they aren't getting him open rolls and spoon fed set ups, he is just a great defensive minded big. You take away the sweet set ups and just let him go get his points on his own like dudes like Embiid, Joker, Towns or Nurkic, and he is an average big on offense!!

I don't know about spoon-fed. He attracts a fair amount of attention and it opens up our shooters. Gobert is probably an average offense big. IMO Ayton is way better than Gobert on that end.

He attracts attention because he isn't poor on offense like Gobert, Ayton is at least a threat to score while Gobert is a beast on defense. Can you say he is head and shoulders above a guy like McGee on ofense?? Our guards are gonna make McGee look good as hell this year and he isn't worth a pittance of a max contract at all. I said I hated this and wish we just maxed him but I can see an argument as to why not. As Book and Chris said in interviews during the playoffs, they have both been all over his ass to perform and both plus Payne have helped him look more offensively advanced than he really is.

McGee has bounced around a lot. He's a quality backup big but does poorly against starting center.

[bwgood77]

I love Shamet's new contract, it's gonna be a bargain pretty soon.

Seems a little high to me. I'm definitely surprised. I saw Mulholland slot 8 which I thought might be a tad high. I was thinking more like 4/$30.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Again **** Sarver and I hope he sells.


But a couple things im really curious about. I do kind of suspect there might be some people in the org that aren't 100% sold on DeAndre for whatever reason. I wonder how close they got to trading him last year. I also wonder Booker's thoughts on him because I never got the sense Devin loved him and he doesn't seem to go out of his way to praise him like Paul seems to.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I would've give DA the max, but mostly from a PR perspective.

Basketball wise, his longest streak of consistently "max level" play was for about 10 games in the playoffs.

Now, i'll admit, him playing well in the playoffs is a great sign, but in a vacuum he hasn't been anywhere close to a max player for most of his career.

And really, if he doesn't progress on offense significantly, one CP3 retires, he ain't worth all that. basically

2021 Playoff DA - worth the Max
DA for the rest of his career - worth about half that IMO

Oh yeah there's a real legit question about having a huge investment in a C in today's NBA.

Now I just wish they would have had that debate back when they were deciding on the number 1 overall pick. Some of us here we're definitely saying it.

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[lilfishi22]

Holy ****

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Now this caught me off guard. I was certain they'd wait to year and let him test the market. I was also expecting a deal maybe around $7-9m so for it to be close to $11m a year is a bit of an overpay. Granted I do like him a lot as a back up SG who still has plenty of room to grow but not gonna lie, it feels like an overpay.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

[bwgood77]

There’s gonna some tension in the locker room this season imo. Not just the Ayton thing but Shamet getting paid nearly double than Payne before ever playing a game for suns isn’t likely to sit all that well with Payne either. Especially after all that Payne’s done the last year and half for the organization.

I don’t think any team in the league would’ve came to close to this offer next summer either. Suns basically outbid themselves for this.

Strongly disagree here, Shamet is a lot better than you think, that contract is going to look like a bargin in a couple of years

I don't think Payne cares. Dude was in China or wherever and now he's making near $20 million. Shamet has played for a couple of contenders and big playoff minutes for like 3 years. He's basically like a better CamJ on offense/worse on defense(though Cam can certainly be as good or better on offense..just had slumps for long periods last year). I figured CamJ would get like 4/$60...though I think seeing Shamet's I might be a little low with Cam.

[Slim Charless]

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

I'm confused what's been "ridiculously cheap" about this offseason lol? This board, you included, constantly complained about Shamet being a 1-year rental salary dump for Sarver's wallet, yet we signed him to a $40M extension before he's even touched the court for us. We retained CP3, Payne, extended Mikal to a $90M, and filled our only big roster hole with McGee. It's not like we tore it apart like the Mavericks did lol.

Does it shock you that much that people don't think Ayton's worth a max extension or something? The list of centers getting max contracts after averaging 14/11 isn't exactly long lol. I don't get why everyone is so much more concerned about him mailing it in for not getting extended than mailing it in after he gets his guarantees lol, this is the dude that was talking about his second contract to the media before he stepped on the court.

I would not be surprised to see plenty of games this year where Javale McGee outplays DA and finishes games in the 4th quarter.

Good that the Suns did not cave in and give him what he wants.

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Lol. The "Shaq'in a fool MVP" is gonna outplay Ayton? Cool story bro.

Do you remember when he had to get his mom to call Shaq out for making fun of him? Outta curiosity, is his mom gonna help him outplay Ayton or will he doing it all by himself.....



You Sarver lovers are weird.

[bwgood77]

$10M/yr for Shamet means at least $22M/yr for Cam Johnson next summer. Cam’s gotta be excited about that.

I doubt it. More like $16-$17. They are both bench players who are primarily shooters/scorers. Cam is a better defender with more size so should get more, but not like 220% of what Shamet got...more like 160%

[WeekapaugGroove]

If Ayton dogs it because he didn't get paid all hell do is prove the suns wise for the decision.

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[lilfishi22]

Shamet getting paid indicates to me that it’s James Jones not Sarver

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

Not cheap - more like fiscally inconsistent. Up and down
Like, I would have signed Ayton over Shamet. I get the variance in dollars is 110m or whatever. But does Sarver really think he can replace Ayton for under 110m (thats just adding Shamets $43m to say Jaren Jackson at $104 ot get $147).

I know it doesn't work that way but I think Ayton with this group isa difference making player

Yeah this sounds more appropriate. Sarver didn't pay Amare for $20m a year so he went out and paid Hakeem Warwick, Hedo Türkoğlu and Josh Childress for about $20m a year. It's not like he doesn't have the money to pay but he's just a dumb owner who thinks he knows more about basketball than the GM.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

That is VERY strange. Why would the Suns not want to lock him up for as long as possible?

And for Ayton, a 3 year max gets him to the 30% criteria for his next payday because he will have 7 years under his belt.

But mainly I don't understand the Suns point there. After Paul is gone this won't be an issue. The LONGEST Paul can be here is 3 years after this one which would coincide with Ayton's first 3 years so years 4 and 5 would be post Paul.

Suns and Sarver so dumb. Something must really worry them about Ayton. Maybe continuing to stay locked in or something, but they seem to say he works hard, etc.

[dremill24]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

That is VERY strange. Why would the Suns not want to lock him up for as long as possible?

And for Ayton, a 3 year max gets him to the 30% criteria for his next payday because he will have 7 years under his belt.

But mainly I don't understand the Suns point there. After Paul is gone this won't be an issue. The LONGEST Paul can be here is 3 years after this one which would coincide with Ayton's first 3 years so years 4 and 5 would be post Paul.

Suns and Sarver so dumb. Something must really worry them about Ayton. Maybe continuing to stay locked in or something, but they seem to say he works hard, etc.

I'm with you that it's strange, not sure i buy this report.