2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Fo-Real]

I love Shamet's new contract, it's gonna be a bargain pretty soon.

Seems a little high to me. I'm definitely surprised. I saw Mulholland slot 8 which I thought might be a tad high. I was thinking more like 4/$30.

I was thinking 8 per year, I think he got a bit too much.

[Slim Charless]

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

Not cheap - more like fiscally inconsistent. Up and down
Like, I would have signed Ayton over Shamet. I get the variance in dollars is 110m or whatever. But does Sarver really think he can replace Ayton for under 110m (thats just adding Shamets $43m to say Jaren Jackson at $104 ot get $147).

I know it doesn't work that way but I think Ayton with this group isa difference making player

Yeah this sounds more appropriate. Sarver didn't pay Amare for $20m a year so he went out and paid Hakeem Warwick, Hedo Türkoğlu and Josh Childress for about $20m a year. It's not like he doesn't have the money to pay but he's just a dumb owner who thinks he knows more about basketball than the GM.

OK.....so you're saying that he's not cheap but he's stupid?

That's fair. I think he's both personally.

[bigfoot]

So Ayton could have inked a 3 or 4 yr max deal but didn’t? That’s nuts. What’s the number on those ?

Kind of sounds like a basketball decision. Love how tight lipped the FO is on this.

Ayton was stupid not to take the 3-year max. If he was going to be the player HE thinks HE'S going to turn into, his next contract would be enormous over 5-6 years.

[Slim Charless]

Also. FTR.

I think there's a 50-50 chance that Ayton is gonna demand a trade before January 1st.

[bwgood77]

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

I'm confused what's been "ridiculously cheap" about this offseason lol? This board, you included, constantly complained about Shamet being a 1-year rental salary dump for Sarver's wallet, yet we signed him to a $40M extension before he's even touched the court for us. We retained CP3, Payne, extended Mikal to a $90M, and filled our only big roster hole with McGee. It's not like we tore it apart like the Mavericks did lol.

Does it shock you that much that people don't think Ayton's worth a max extension or something? The list of centers getting max contracts after averaging 14/11 isn't exactly long lol. I don't get why everyone is so much more concerned about him mailing it in for not getting extended than mailing it in after he gets his guarantees lol, this is the dude that was talking about his second contract to the media before he stepped on the court.

I would not be surprised to see plenty of games this year where Javale McGee outplays DA and finishes games in the 4th quarter.

Good that the Suns did not cave in and give him what he wants.

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Maybe for extremely short spurts. But JaVale is not that good. There is a reason he bounces around making the minimum and no one cares to keep him.

And a reason Ayton was in discussion for a max.

I assume you watched the playoffs. When Ayton was off the floor we sucked. I mean really sucked. He was our most important player. Even if he wasn't playing great, he was very important due to gravity, screening, contesting shots, etc.

We definitely can't switch when JaVale is playing.

There is a reason JaVale makes about 25% of what Saric makes a year.

Sure JaVale looks good for a few minutes in the preseason and he will look good and put in a lot of effort despite his lack of skills, but we certainly won't be a contender...more like fringe playoff team if Ayton was out and he was in there instead.

[lilfishi22]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

[Slim Charless]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

Ayton is done on this team. Thanks to our **** owner.

The BEST case scenario we can look forward to is Minnesota crapping out again and KAT asking out. That swap somewhat works for both teams, though in our case our defense will take a dramatic decline.

[bigfoot]

Also. FTR.

I think there's a 50-50 chance that Ayton is gonna demand a trade before January 1st.

McD finally correct about the disgruntled player and Phoenix. DA will get a haul of 1st round picks and GOK will be in heaven.

[Fo-Real]

I'm confused what's been "ridiculously cheap" about this offseason lol? This board, you included, constantly complained about Shamet being a 1-year rental salary dump for Sarver's wallet, yet we signed him to a $40M extension before he's even touched the court for us. We retained CP3, Payne, extended Mikal to a $90M, and filled our only big roster hole with McGee. It's not like we tore it apart like the Mavericks did lol.

Does it shock you that much that people don't think Ayton's worth a max extension or something? The list of centers getting max contracts after averaging 14/11 isn't exactly long lol. I don't get why everyone is so much more concerned about him mailing it in for not getting extended than mailing it in after he gets his guarantees lol, this is the dude that was talking about his second contract to the media before he stepped on the court.

I would not be surprised to see plenty of games this year where Javale McGee outplays DA and finishes games in the 4th quarter.

Good that the Suns did not cave in and give him what he wants.

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Lol. The "Shaq'in a fool MVP" is gonna outplay Ayton? Cool story bro.

Do you remember when he had to get his mom to call Shaq out for making fun of him? Outta curiosity, is his mom gonna help him outplay Ayton or will he doing it all by himself.....



You Sarver lovers are weird.

No doubt in his younger years JaVayle earned the disrespect, but if you dont see that he has matured and discovered himself to the tune of contributing to 3 nba championships, then you are just lashing out in anger. No doubt that with the guards we have, Javale will have games where he helps more than Ayton, its basketball and it happens. There were times early last.year that Satic was more effective than Ayton, **** happens.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Situations like this are hard to gauge as a fan. We simply don't know all the behinds the scenes stuff. Plus we'll never get a real honest answer from Jones or Sarver and anything we hear from reporters is given to them from either the agent or the team so is very one sided.

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[Slim Charless]

So Ayton could have inked a 3 or 4 yr max deal but didn’t? That’s nuts. What’s the number on those ?

Kind of sounds like a basketball decision. Love how tight lipped the FO is on this.

Ayton was stupid not to take the 3-year max. If he was going to be the player HE thinks HE'S going to turn into, his next contract would be enormous over 5-6 years.

For once, I agree with you guys. $arver is a POS, but Ayton should've signed a shorter deal and hit FA again earlier. He could've gotten (in theory) a supermax deal quicker.

None of that excuses $arver from being a POS however.

[TeamTragic]

THE SKY IS FALLING

SARVER **** UP

THE SKY IS FALLING

[lilfishi22]

Not cheap - more like fiscally inconsistent. Up and down
Like, I would have signed Ayton over Shamet. I get the variance in dollars is 110m or whatever. But does Sarver really think he can replace Ayton for under 110m (thats just adding Shamets $43m to say Jaren Jackson at $104 ot get $147).

I know it doesn't work that way but I think Ayton with this group isa difference making player

Yeah this sounds more appropriate. Sarver didn't pay Amare for $20m a year so he went out and paid Hakeem Warwick, Hedo Türkoğlu and Josh Childress for about $20m a year. It's not like he doesn't have the money to pay but he's just a dumb owner who thinks he knows more about basketball than the GM.

OK.....so you're saying that he's not cheap but he's stupid?

That's fair. I think he's both personally.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. He can be both. I was just saying if he was totally cheap then he probably would've played hardball with Booker's extension for example but he didn't. I also don't think he would've allowed Jones to make the CP3 trade knowing he'd be up for an extension after one season. If he was just cheap and played hardball with all our players, I don't think CP3, Payne or Mikal would've accepted the offer. But considering they are all fair and some might say slightly below market, might suggest that they are in the ball park of their worth rather than straight lowball offers. So while I think he's both, I think he probably leans more dumb and chasing true value rather than purely cheap. Not sure If I can make a better distinction than one of my previous post where I said Sarver is an owner who thinks he knows basketball but he sees it as a pure business.

[dremill24]

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

Ayton is done on this team. Thanks to our **** owner.

The BEST case scenario we can look forward to is Minnesota crapping out again and KAT asking out. That swap somewhat works for both teams, though in our case our defense will take a dramatic decline.

Lol get a grip man. He'll get his bag next summer and be fine.

[darealjuice]

Maybe for extremely short spurts. But JaVale is not that good. There is a reason he bounces around making the minimum and no one cares to keep him.

And a reason Ayton was in discussion for a max.

I assume you watched the playoffs. When Ayton was off the floor we sucked. I mean really sucked. He was our most important player. Even if he wasn't playing great, he was very important due to gravity, screening, contesting shots, etc.

We definitely can't switch when JaVale is playing.

There is a reason JaVale makes about 25% of what Saric makes a year.

Sure JaVale looks good for a few minutes in the preseason and he will look good and put in a lot of effort despite his lack of skills, but we certainly won't be a contender...more like fringe playoff team if Ayton was out and he was in there instead.

Not going to pretend we were better with Ayton off the floor, but he did have an On-Off of -2.4 compared to Saric at +10.5 during the playoffs. Part of the reason we were especially awful with him on the bench against the Bucks was because we had no depth left with Saric out, not that he was doing anything to Giannis either.

JaVale's nothing special, but he's a perfect fit in a motion offense that uses its centers to constantly run dribble handoffs and screen and rolls with him diving towards the rim. I expect him to have a nice season for us.

[lilfishi22]

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

Ayton is done on this team. Thanks to our **** owner.

The BEST case scenario we can look forward to is Minnesota crapping out again and KAT asking out. That swap somewhat works for both teams, though in our case our defense will take a dramatic decline.

Lol get a grip man. He'll get his bag next summer and be fine.

Yeah this is hardly the final nail in the coffin.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

That is VERY strange. Why would the Suns not want to lock him up for as long as possible?

And for Ayton, a 3 year max gets him to the 30% criteria for his next payday because he will have 7 years under his belt.

But mainly I don't understand the Suns point there. After Paul is gone this won't be an issue. The LONGEST Paul can be here is 3 years after this one which would coincide with Ayton's first 3 years so years 4 and 5 would be post Paul.

Suns and Sarver so dumb. Something must really worry them about Ayton. Maybe continuing to stay locked in or something, but they seem to say he works hard, etc.

I'm with you that it's strange, not sure i buy this report.

Doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Locking him for the full 5 years means no massive jump in salary at the end of year 3 when he could be eligible for an even bigger max. Should've locked him up like we did with Booker and figure it out as we go.

[King4Day]

DA won't check out. He won't disrespect his team, and Paul especially, out of spite. He should not speak with Sarver or Jones much this season. That's as far as it should go.
When asked by the media about what happened, I would defer to Sarver and Jones EVERY TIME.

But I do think he knows the players have his back and he'll have theirs. Playing poorly would look bad to other teams and he'll get even less...even if they think he's hiding his true talent. In the meantime, we have a 2 season window to win a championship.

As bad as this looks, I do think there are a lot of 'sky is falling' takes right now. I understand the frustration and concern but in the end, if and when he has a good season, which is at least equal to last year, he'll be offered the 5 year max and he'll take it immediately.

[King4Day]

On a side note, I am a big fan of Dave King, but it really feels like he's taking this DA news personally today. Not a fan when excellent writers let their emotions get the best of them

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?