2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?

[dremill24]

Yeah these issues are only as big or small as the media chooses to make them.

[TeamTragic]

Yeah these issues are only as big or small as the media chooses to make them.

Media is bored as ****. They are just stirring up ****.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?

My guess and I could be wrong, is the supermax escalators only apply to the full 5 year deals. Pretty much everyone who got maxed out in his class have the escalators in their contract (aside from Luka who is already on the supermax). So a 3 or 4 year max deal will have no escalators and it's 1-2 years less of guaranteed money. Seems like he wants to full fat 5yr max

[dremill24]

Yeah these issues are only as big or small as the media chooses to make them.

Media is bored as ****. They are just stirring up ****.

The danger is it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Everyone keeps putting it out there how catastrophic it is and eventually (especially these days) theres going to be a weak minded young player who buys into it and does become a malcontent in a situation like this.

[Revived]

Mark Cuban famously didn’t pay Tyson Chandler after the Mavs championship run and Chandler signed a hefty deal with the Knicks instead but ended up bouncing around the league afterwards. Chandler did win DPOY the immediate year after though. Mavs never made much noise in the playoffs after that either.

[WeekapaugGroove]

On a side note, I am a big fan of Dave King, but it really feels like he's taking this DA news personally today. Not a fan when excellent writers let their emotions get the best of them

He's got a bit of a blindspot with Ayton and has acted like a soccer mom in regards to him for years now. He was in the Ayton camp that draft day been fighting the Luka people since then.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[TeamTragic]

Yeah these issues are only as big or small as the media chooses to make them.

Media is bored as ****. They are just stirring up ****.

The danger is it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Everyone keeps putting it out there how catastrophic it is and eventually (especially these days) theres going to be a weak minded young player who buys into it and does become a malcontent in a situation like this.

I don't think you give Ayton enough credit. This team was a few plays from winning a championship.

[Revived]

Strongly disagree here, Shamet is a lot better than you think, that contract is going to look like a bargin in a couple of years

We’ll see. I just don’t think this is the type of contract to give to a player that’s on like his 4th team in 4 years. He doesn’t seem to last with any team he was on and that’s definitely a bit of a red flag, at least to me.

Especially paying him before watching him play with this roster in a competitive game.

Apparently Monty vouched hard for him though according to Woj. Maybe even more so than Monty did for Ayton.

[SunsRback4Good]

Mark Cuban famously didn’t pay Tyson Chandler after the Mavs championship run and Chandler signed a hefty deal with the Knicks instead but ended up bouncing around the league afterwards. Chandler did win DPOY the immediate year after though. Mavs never made much noise in the playoffs after that either.

What an accurate comparison. Chandler is honestly 5 times better than a player of Ayton's caliber.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I tend to agree , maybe not with him not playing hard but maybe maximize his value if you do not think he is a long term fit for the money- but who are you trading him for?

but who are you trading him for?

There's really no one out there that'll be able to replicate Aytons' value and impact to this team. But IF it has to be so, Then the closest you could probably get IF you're still looking to contend would be:

1- Nikola Vucevic.
He's currently the one that offers the closest offensive production and rebounding numbers. But his defense is not nearly as strong as Aytons. So we'd be weaker in that regard, And need to find a really strong defensive 4/5. I'd look to acquire Boucher from Toronto if possible if we traded for Vucevic. (Jerami Grant or Christian Wood) would be ideal though for us to remain contenders!

2- Mitchell Robinson.
He'd be similarly strong defensively. But won't offer much in terms of offense aside from rim running and lobs. However, Should we get Charlottes' 2022 first in the deal along with either Barrett or Toppin, And Quickly as a throw in ( for added value) that Charlotte first could land us one of Yannick Zsosa or Damion Collins on cost controlled contracts. Szoza is a more versatile Capela with offensive upside. And Collins though young and skinny is an otherworldly explosive athlete with a very versatile offensive skillset and incredible upside comparison to Anthony Davis!! ( 6'9 with a 7'6 wingspan and unbelievable athleticism and fluidity) as a 4/5. We'd get two firsts in the deal likely. And could still then flip the other first ( Dallas 2023 first) along with Saric/ Smith to maybe Houston. Or for Young and then just straight out sign either Grant or Wood in 2023 free agency?

3- Pascal Siakim trade? Toronto would do this in a heartbeat. But Ayton still offers more size and better overall production/ defense. Since Siakim is already making max money, I would rather trade him to another team for better fitting pieces. Maybe to Sacramento for Davion Mitchell/ Richaun Holmes and their 2022 first? Then with the 2022 first, look to add one of the above mentioned prospects to eventually be a cost controlled replacement at the 5? Or backup to Holmes until we can secure a better vet replacement?

Houston would be willing to likely offer Wood and additional assets of course. Maybe something like Wood/ Sengun/ Porter Jr. Or Wood / Martin Jr / Porter Jr and a first. Honestly I'd consider it for Wood/ Porter Jr and a first.

Jonas Valuncias? ( resigned and traded) Trey Murphy 3rd, Naji Marshall and a first? From the Pels.

Steven Adams? Memphis would of course need to add additional value. Maybe Adam's, Clarke, Bane, a first?

San Antonio. Maybe Poetl, Murray or White, Vassell and two firsts.

Charlotte ( I really like this idea IF we are looking to the future with cost controlled impact players included. For cash considerations ( Savers' interests). Plumlee/ KAI JONES/ Vernon carey, and a first?
- Kai Jones is comparable to Ayton in terms of athleticism and upside as an explosive and versatile big man with all star upside. And Vernon Carey would provide sixmze and girth but also with skills at the backup 5 at 6'10 270 lbs. And can rebound and hit the three at a solid clip.

Boston mentioned offering Robert " Timelord Williams " and fillers. So maybe Timelord/ Smart/ a first? Not interested too much in Timelord alone.

Orlando. Maybe WCJ / Anthony or Hampton/ 2 firsts?

For what it's worth, I don't think that Minnesota will trade Kat to us unless we severely overpay in excess of what was mentioned for him earlier. They'll really overvalue him unless he indicates he wants to be traded!

[bwoolf2]

Also. FTR.

I think there's a 50-50 chance that Ayton is gonna demand a trade before January 1st.

Aytons agents might demand a trade but Ayton won't he didn't all of a sudden turn I to an alpha male remember he is still the guy that was ok losing the finals at it was so much fun, nothing wrong with that but let's not act like he is a strong leader and demands things from teammates or people. He also didn't really blossom until CP3 Book and Monty consistently rode him, he might not have that same leadership on another team and goes back to what he has been for the most part so far ND thats soft. I'm hoping he shows out this year and gets the max but 90 percent of the people on this board wanted to trade him last year.

[Nando88]

Coming out of last season there was good vibes all around the team, the fans and the city. Can't really avoid the sour taste now heading into this season after today

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?

My guess and I could be wrong, is the supermax escalators only apply to the full 5 year deals. Pretty much everyone who got maxed out in his class have the escalators in their contract (aside from Luka who is already on the supermax). So a 3 or 4 year max deal will have no escalators and it's 1-2 years less of guaranteed money. Seems like he wants to full fat 5yr max

I get that but if the Suns aren’t gonna give him that and the most another team can give him the same exact 4 yr max the Suns are offering, then wouldn’t it just make sense to accept the 4 yr deal from the Suns? Especially since the Suns can just match if he waits for another team to offer it to him?

It’s not like another team can give him the 5yr max next summer.

[bwgood77]

Maybe for extremely short spurts. But JaVale is not that good. There is a reason he bounces around making the minimum and no one cares to keep him.

And a reason Ayton was in discussion for a max.

I assume you watched the playoffs. When Ayton was off the floor we sucked. I mean really sucked. He was our most important player. Even if he wasn't playing great, he was very important due to gravity, screening, contesting shots, etc.

We definitely can't switch when JaVale is playing.

There is a reason JaVale makes about 25% of what Saric makes a year.

Sure JaVale looks good for a few minutes in the preseason and he will look good and put in a lot of effort despite his lack of skills, but we certainly won't be a contender...more like fringe playoff team if Ayton was out and he was in there instead.

Not going to pretend we were better with Ayton off the floor, but he did have an On-Off of -2.4 compared to Saric at +10.5 during the playoffs. Part of the reason we were especially awful with him on the bench against the Bucks was because we had no depth left with Saric out, not that he was doing anything to Giannis either.

JaVale's nothing special, but he's a perfect fit in a motion offense that uses its centers to constantly run dribble handoffs and screen and rolls with him diving towards the rim. I expect him to have a nice season for us.

Yes, I'm glad we have him, and I think he will be a soli backup, but I definitely don't think we were better when Saric played than with Ayton. Pretty misleading. Our wins against the Clips were close and the losses were significant, and this was due to Paul George, not their C.

And Giannis is Giannis. Ayton played really well against Jokic. He also played pretty well against AD but Saric probably got some burn after AD went out, while Ayton played more when Paul was playing with one arm. I think there is a lot of context here.

[TeamTragic]

Mark Cuban famously didn’t pay Tyson Chandler after the Mavs championship run and Chandler signed a hefty deal with the Knicks instead but ended up bouncing around the league afterwards. Chandler did win DPOY the immediate year after though. Mavs never made much noise in the playoffs after that either.

What an accurate comparison. Chandler is honestly 5 times better than a player of Ayton's caliber.

[TeamTragic]

Coming out of last season there was good vibes all around the team, the fans and the city. Can't really avoid the sour taste now heading into this season after today

SUNS now have a target on their back

[lilfishi22]

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?

My guess and I could be wrong, is the supermax escalators only apply to the full 5 year deals. Pretty much everyone who got maxed out in his class have the escalators in their contract (aside from Luka who is already on the supermax). So a 3 or 4 year max deal will have no escalators and it's 1-2 years less of guaranteed money. Seems like he wants to full fat 5yr max

I get that but if the Suns aren’t gonna give him that and the most another team can give him the same exact 4 yr max the Suns are offering, then wouldn’t it just make sense to accept the 4 yr deal from the Suns? Especially since the Suns can just match if he waits for another team to offer it to him?

It’s not like another team can give him the 5yr max next summer.

Because he can still get the full fat max next offseason as far as I'm aware and he's holding out for that.

[Revived]

Mark Cuban famously didn’t pay Tyson Chandler after the Mavs championship run and Chandler signed a hefty deal with the Knicks instead but ended up bouncing around the league afterwards. Chandler did win DPOY the immediate year after though. Mavs never made much noise in the playoffs after that either.

What an accurate comparison. Chandler is honestly 5 times better than a player of Ayton's caliber.

It’s not an apples to apples comparison. And nobody said he’s 5 times better either even though Tyson Chandler at the time was seen as an established best defensive big in the game.

Like I mentioned though, it wasn’t good for the Mavs to not pay him exactly because they broke up the title team with that move and have never had much playoff success since then.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

I don’t understand why Ayton would decline a 4 yr max from the Suns. The most any team can offer him next summer will be the 4 yr max and Suns can just match it then and it would be the same thing.

Or am I wrong in terms of the #s on this?

A 4 year max is even bigger than what other teams would offer. Doesn't sound like options were a big deal to them if he didn't want a shorter one either...probably in large part to get the escalator if he hits All NBA this year. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the main thing Sarver wanted to avoid.

As he quoted, he just wants to be respected like his peers and get the max. I think if he continues to improve and take another step, he will get it. If not we can match.

We just shouldn't low ball and offer him like $25 million a year to start because his QO is $16 so he wouldn't exactly be losing a ton to be able to go where he wanted the following year.