2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

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[bwgood77]

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[lilfishi22]

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This is what I was expecting. The battle is between Ayton and Sarver, once he's back in the fold with the fellas, it's back to work.

[Revived]

On a side note, I am a big fan of Dave King, but it really feels like he's taking this DA news personally today. Not a fan when excellent writers let their emotions get the best of them

He's got a bit of a blindspot with Ayton and has acted like a soccer mom in regards to him for years now. He was in the Ayton camp that draft day been fighting the Luka people since then.

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He’s also one of the people that constantly talks about how Ayton sacrificed his offense for the team and this and that. I don’t think he realizes that Ayton’s not an offensive player that you just throw to ball to down low and he posts up and gets buckets like a Shaq or even an Embiid or Jokic type. He’s had opportunities even after getting CP3 to dominate in the low post without getting set up for baskets and he hasn’t always done well with that. Suns have had games where 3pt shot wasn’t falling at all and they tried to feed Ayton down low to get higher % closer shots and he would just take two dribbles and kick it back out because he doesn’t know how to attack double teams or closes like the guys I mentioned above. He’s not an individual scorer and it’s not cause of a lack of opportunities it’s just not his game.

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I don’t think Ayton’s offense or his “hidden offensive potential” there is the reason to max him. If you max him then it’s for his elite defense and rim protection. He does enough on the offensive end to not be a liability like a Gobert so he can stay on the court in the playoffs too which is good.

[Revived]

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This is what I was expecting. The battle is between Ayton and Sarver, once he's back in the fold with the fellas, it's back to work.

Yea I don’t think he’s gonna try and dog it because of a lack of contract extension.

[bwoolf2]

Strongly disagree here, Shamet is a lot better than you think, that contract is going to look like a bargin in a couple of years

We’ll see. I just don’t think this is the type of contract to give to a player that’s on like his 4th team in 4 years. He doesn’t seem to last with any team he was on and that’s definitely a bit of a red flag, at least to me.

Especially paying him before watching him play with this roster in a competitive game.

Apparently Monty vouched hard for him though according to Woj. Maybe even more so than Monty did for Ayton.

2 vastly different contracts between 40 million and a super max I'm sure if Ayton was willing to take what bridges and shamet got combined 130 million the deal would be done we aren't comparing apples to apples the waygu to chuck roast

[suns12345]

Holy ****

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Now this caught me off guard. I was certain they'd wait to year and let him test the market. I was also expecting a deal maybe around $7-9m so for it to be close to $11m a year is a bit of an overpay. Granted I do like him a lot as a back up SG who still has plenty of room to grow but not gonna lie, it feels like an overpay.

A pretty tradeable contract. though, which could be useful too.Especially when you consider what other "shooters" are getting paid (Bertans etc. lol)

[lilfishi22]

Holy ****

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Now this caught me off guard. I was certain they'd wait to year and let him test the market. I was also expecting a deal maybe around $7-9m so for it to be close to $11m a year is a bit of an overpay. Granted I do like him a lot as a back up SG who still has plenty of room to grow but not gonna lie, it feels like an overpay.

A pretty tradeable contract. though, which could be useful too.Especially when you consider what other "shooters" are getting paid (Bertans etc. lol)

Yeah he certainly does more than a guy like Bertans and he's still relatively young so he'll improve on other aspects of his game like playmaking. I guess the figure in my head was around that $7-9m mark so $11m is a little jarring but not a massive overpay. It's fine.

[lilfishi22]

On a side note, I am a big fan of Dave King, but it really feels like he's taking this DA news personally today. Not a fan when excellent writers let their emotions get the best of them

He's got a bit of a blindspot with Ayton and has acted like a soccer mom in regards to him for years now. He was in the Ayton camp that draft day been fighting the Luka people since then.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

He’s also one of the people that constantly talks about how Ayton sacrificed his offense for the team and this and that. I don’t think he realizes that Ayton’s not an offensive player that you just throw to ball to down low and he posts up and gets buckets like a Shaq or even an Embiid or Jokic type. He’s had opportunities even after getting CP3 to dominate in the low post without getting set up for baskets and he hasn’t always done well with that. Suns have had games where 3pt shot wasn’t falling at all and they tried to feed Ayton down low to get higher % closer shots and he would just take two dribbles and kick it back out because he doesn’t know how to attack double teams or closes like the guys I mentioned above. He’s not an individual scorer and it’s not cause of a lack of opportunities it’s just not his game.

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I don’t think Ayton’s offense or his “hidden offensive potential” there is the reason to max him. If you max him then it’s for his elite defense and rim protection. He does enough on the offensive end to not be a liability like a Gobert so he can stay on the court in the playoffs too which is good.

He plays game changing defense now being the Suns defensive anchor where our defense was ranked in the top 5 for most of the year and finishing in the top 10. If you max him and he doesn't reach his full potential (Hakeem? The Admiral?) which is ridiculously high, he's still be playing defense at or near all-NBA levels, he'd still finish for you at a super efficient clip and he'd still be a damn good rebounder. He'd be overpaid for sure but that's if he never improves one bit. With all rookie extensions, a fair chunk of that money is a bet that the player will improve.

[suns12345]

Question... When can we sign DA now, not until the start of free agency next year?

[sunskerr]

Shamet is 24 so he's not a finished product. Just stick with it. I hope he can live up to that contract and more, because he's had his moments where he looks like a pretty good player. I thought he was a really nice player when he was with the Clips, so hopefully he can start to build off that after being traded around quite a bit. This is real bench leader money he's on now.

[dremill24]

Question... When can we sign DA now, not until the start of free agency next year?

Yeah nothing happens until next July at this point

[Ghost of Kleine]

So we pay Shamet before Ayton???

We basically chose to pay everyone before Ayton! Also, Johnson's and Smith's options will come due on the 31st. So since we can't really negotiate again until the summer, pretty much everyone will get paid before Ayton! What a huge slap in the face this has to be for Ayton amongst his peers. Regardless of it being a reasonable business strategy or not, It's terrible in terms of optics!

- Ayton will surely leave now out of contempt for the disrespect of the whole situation. He won't want to play for " Saver the cheapskate " at all after this season, Money or not! If they try to match, he'll just take the qualifying offer or choose a 1+1 deal ( pre arranged in restricted free agency) to the team he wants! Play out his season here, And then bolt next summer.

- The word of how poorly Saver and our front office handled this negotiation as well as how poorly they treated Ayton will not be lost upon the players around the league either as they all talk and prioritize RESPECT in their free agency/ trade considerations. We'll likely not see another quality name sign here again whilst Sarver is connected to the franchise!

- The chemistry and camaraderie is going to be severely damaged now for sure. Saver just dismantled any promising cohesion that this team had as our season will be totally overshadowed by numerous distractions now.

Best case scenario now is in that Ayton might be willing ( for the fans) to do a sign ' n' trade with some team so that we could still be competitive. But then again, I can't see why he'd have any motivation whatsoever to help Saver and our front office that blatantly rejected him in terms of value. He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers! This was a huge screw up on Savers' part. And definitely will push us back to mediocrity in the eyes of everyone around the league.

This is satire right? lol

Perhaps it may seem that way to some who might be confused on how these things play out with real human dynamics such as percieved self valuation as well as that of athletes peers. As amongst their peers, Respect and value is measured by their financial alotments procured. As well as playing time. So honestly, what aspect of my post do you find satirical exactly? And why ?

[Revived]

He's got a bit of a blindspot with Ayton and has acted like a soccer mom in regards to him for years now. He was in the Ayton camp that draft day been fighting the Luka people since then.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

He’s also one of the people that constantly talks about how Ayton sacrificed his offense for the team and this and that. I don’t think he realizes that Ayton’s not an offensive player that you just throw to ball to down low and he posts up and gets buckets like a Shaq or even an Embiid or Jokic type. He’s had opportunities even after getting CP3 to dominate in the low post without getting set up for baskets and he hasn’t always done well with that. Suns have had games where 3pt shot wasn’t falling at all and they tried to feed Ayton down low to get higher % closer shots and he would just take two dribbles and kick it back out because he doesn’t know how to attack double teams or closes like the guys I mentioned above. He’s not an individual scorer and it’s not cause of a lack of opportunities it’s just not his game.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I don’t think Ayton’s offense or his “hidden offensive potential” there is the reason to max him. If you max him then it’s for his elite defense and rim protection. He does enough on the offensive end to not be a liability like a Gobert so he can stay on the court in the playoffs too which is good.

He plays game changing defense now being the Suns defensive anchor where our defense was ranked in the top 5 for most of the year and finishing in the top 10. If you max him and he doesn't reach his full potential (Hakeem? The Admiral?) which is ridiculously high, he's still be playing defense at or near all-NBA levels, he'd still finish for you at a super efficient clip and he'd still be a damn good rebounder. He'd be overpaid for sure but that's if he never improves one bit. With all rookie extensions, a fair chunk of that money is a bet that the player will improve.

Yeah I agree. I wouldn’t have had a problem with them maxing him just for his defense.

Someone brought up a point couple days ago though and they basically asked, at the end of reg season last year would Ayton have been worthy of the rookie max contract? I’m not sure any of us had him down for the max at that point and the discussion here on realgm was about if he makes $15M/yr or $20M/yr and almost everyone thought Bridges should be paid higher than him. Obviously playoffs changed all that.

I think that’s what Suns brass is thinking here. They want to see if Ayton can play at the same level that he played in the playoffs except over the course of a full season.

[dremill24]

We basically chose to pay everyone before Ayton! Also, Johnson's and Smith's options will come due on the 31st. So since we can't really negotiate again until the summer, pretty much everyone will get paid before Ayton! What a huge slap in the face this has to be for Ayton amongst his peers. Regardless of it being a reasonable business strategy or not, It's terrible in terms of optics!

- Ayton will surely leave now out of contempt for the disrespect of the whole situation. He won't want to play for " Saver the cheapskate " at all after this season, Money or not! If they try to match, he'll just take the qualifying offer or choose a 1+1 deal ( pre arranged in restricted free agency) to the team he wants! Play out his season here, And then bolt next summer.

- The word of how poorly Saver and our front office handled this negotiation as well as how poorly they treated Ayton will not be lost upon the players around the league either as they all talk and prioritize RESPECT in their free agency/ trade considerations. We'll likely not see another quality name sign here again whilst Sarver is connected to the franchise!

- The chemistry and camaraderie is going to be severely damaged now for sure. Saver just dismantled any promising cohesion that this team had as our season will be totally overshadowed by numerous distractions now.

Best case scenario now is in that Ayton might be willing ( for the fans) to do a sign ' n' trade with some team so that we could still be competitive. But then again, I can't see why he'd have any motivation whatsoever to help Saver and our front office that blatantly rejected him in terms of value. He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers! This was a huge screw up on Savers' part. And definitely will push us back to mediocrity in the eyes of everyone around the league.

This is satire right? lol

Perhaps it may seem that way to some who might be confused on how these things play out with real human dynamics such as percieved self valuation as well as that of athletes peers. As amongst their peers, Respect and value is measured by their financial alotments procured. As well as playing time. So honestly, what aspect of my post do you find satirical exactly? And why ?

My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head.

Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.

Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him. Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?

Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.

Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol

[lilfishi22]

I agree few thought Ayton was a max player before the playoffs and that is *a* data point to look at but so is the 22 game performance in the playoff environment. I'd say he's certainly earned his deal.

For all the doomsdayers, this is certainly not the final nail in the coffin, it's unlikely to lead to locker room issues and it certainly doesn't mean he's taking the QO next offseason.

[lilfishi22]

This is satire right? lol

Perhaps it may seem that way to some who might be confused on how these things play out with real human dynamics such as percieved self valuation as well as that of athletes peers. As amongst their peers, Respect and value is measured by their financial alotments procured. As well as playing time. So honestly, what aspect of my post do you find satirical exactly? And why ?

My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head.

Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.

Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him. Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?

Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.

Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol

[bwgood77]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

[Ghost of Kleine]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

I think it's a point of personal pride for these players to assert status / relevance among their peers through their contractual achievements as well as winning. And I agree that he's a professional and won't act out in a blatantly obvious manner of course. But again, There absolutely will be a modicum of tension, contempt and animosity amongst the players. Also, I do think he'll be concentrating more on showcasing himself in interest of his market value next summer to potential suitors rather than deferring as much as he has in interest of general team success. It's important to remember, Everyone else has secured their contracts EXCEPT HIM! regardless of disparity in percieved value, he's looking for his 1st legitimate big contract and is a new father to boot! He'll be prioritizing marketing himself more than ever before with the knowledge that Saver obviously doesn't value him to the amount he's seeking. So whilst he won't be an outright cancerous malcontent ( as it'd damage his market value). He won't be looking to defer and play complimentary in interest of team success and team play as much as establishing his own value heading into restricted free agency. He won't trust Saver or the suns front office to meet his financial requests. So he'll use this season to market himself and escalate his value as much as possible!

[bwoolf2]

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

I think it's a point of personal pride for these players to assert status / relevance among their peers through their contractual achievements as well as winning. And I agree that he's a professional and won't act out in a blatantly obvious manner of course. But again, There absolutely will be a modicum of tension, contempt and animosity amongst the players. Also, I do think he'll be concentrating more on showcasing himself in interest of his market value next summer to potential suitors rather than deferring as much as he has in interest of general team success. It's important to remember, Everyone else has secured their contracts EXCEPT HIM! regardless of disparity in percieved value, he's looking for his 1st legitimate big contract and is a new father to boot! He'll be prioritizing marketing himself more than ever before with the knowledge that Saver obviously doesn't value him to the amount he's seeking. So whilst he won't be an outright cancerous malcontent ( as it'd damage his market value). He won't be looking to defer and play complimentary in interest of team success and team play as much as establishing his own value heading into restricted free agency. He won't trust Saver or the suns front office to meet his financial requests. So he'll use this season to market himself and escalate his value as much as possible!

If what you say is true he will have to become a completely different person than. He has been through high school, college, and his pro career to date, is it possible sure, is it likely it's hard for a peach to become an apple. I just don't see it.