Ghost of Kleine wrote:dremill24 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Perhaps it may seem that way to some who might be confused on how these things play out with real human dynamics such as percieved self valuation as well as that of athletes peers. As amongst their peers, Respect and value is measured by their financial alotments procured. As well as playing time. So honestly, what aspect of my post do you find satirical exactly? And why ? :dontknow:
My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head.
Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.
Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him. Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?
Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.
Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol
My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head
You can be human and still overlook the human ( emotional) dynamics in a situation if you're only looking at it from a business perspective and not how it could affect someone on a more personal level with that person having emotional investment in the situation as it affects them personally and in their social circles, for their familial/ needs interests etc. We all do that at times, as we're all human and not infallible by any measure. So apologies if that triggered you in some personal way.
Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.
It's relevant in the context as stated in my post. Since we can't really negotiate any further with Ayton contractually until next summer, that's just more players seeking contractual security regardless of financial scale disparity that would be prioritized before him, whenst they've had ample time to find a common ground. Again in that context of prioritization/ value estimation, it is not at all useless. It's basically implying that Saver and the suns don't legitimately value Ayton as much as securing their complimentary pieces. But you're either able to understand the context or you aren't. Lastly, just like an extension you can choose to pick up their options or not. So your assertion that their not remotely the same is irrelevant.
Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him.
Look, I get it. It makes you and others uncomfortable having to contemplate that he could actually choose to leave our team and you along with some others find comfort/ cope by being dismissive of that possibility and calling it an extremist perspective. When really it's not all that extremist at all. Unless your implying that no nba players have ever chosen to leave teams due to conflict with their teams front office, over contract disputes, etc.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bulls/exclusive-dwyane-wade-shares-story-heats-disrespect-and-why-he-left-miami-bulls“I thought it was an opportunity I would be there forever, but s--t happens,” Wade said in an exclusive interview with CSNChicago.com after the Bulls’ 112-80 win over the Orlando Magic on Monday night “And when s--t happens, you gotta be prepared to (move on). I found out very quickly that this is a business.”
Wade is a Chicago Bull in large part due to the business end of basketball, as he left Miami in free agency over the summer when negotiations with the franchise he never wanted to leave went sour.
https://www.ksat.com › 2019/05/27
'Uncle Dennis' reveals why Kawhi
Robertson told Yahoo! Sports that the three-time NBA All-Star requested to be traded from the San Antonio Spurs due to a degradation in trust between Leonard's camp and the franchise.May 26, 2019
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportskeeda.com/amp/basketball/5-nba-superstars-forced-way-trade-request Before and after the 2011-12 NBA season, Howard requested to be traded by the Orlando Magic. He had clashes with the team management and then-coach Stan Van Gundy.
The situation got tense between Leonard and the franchise as he allegedly felt the team did not handle his situation well enough.
I get that these three examples are not free agency but trade requests. But the premise being that they left due to being unhappy with their teams front office, the way they were treated, role, lack of trust, etc. There are honestly many reasons why players leave their teams. But the root cause of many is due to being unhappy in their situations with that team. So it has and continues to absolutely happen!
He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him.
Did you forget that he can take the qualifying offer and then still leave? Or that IF his agents are actually clever and want to play hardball back, They can just as easily find a team that he'd be interested in going to ( there'll be many suitors too, make no mistake) and then have Ayton sign a 1+1 deal, Forcing the suns to match or just let him go. So at worst if he decides that he doesn't want to be here, then he can leave after next season either way? Not to mention if he goes to New York and can easily make any money back with endorsements, etc. So actually he does have a choice if he feels like leaving he will.
Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?
I actually hope that you're right on this man, Because if you are, Then he'll stay and we'll still be contenders.But if you're at all aware of Sarvers' history, NATURE, and nuance in these situations, even the sociopathic comments towards former players such as Amare ( " I can go out and find guys to replace you tommorow ") and Raja Bell ( " I could pay you but I won't " because I don't have to! ) in important contractual negotiations. Or what about when he dismantled a title contender over 5 million disparity in the Joe Johnson debacle. He has an uncanny knack for pushing players out the door and making them feel unvalued or unimportant. You know like signing other players and even bench players over prioritizing your franchises star #1 pick ever in franchise history that helped lead your team to the freaking nba finals. Those kind of things carry residual effects that can be disruptive and breed discontent. But I guess let's keep our fingers crossed on that one huh?...lol. And terming it as a " Freak out" by Ayton is your perception of the situation. But again, Seeing as how many nba players have left their teams or forced trades to other teams out of conflict of some kind, or being unhappy in their situations, it seems to be the norm rather than a freak out scenario. You either work to keep your star players happy, Or you lose them. Ayton choosing to leave due to feeling disrespected or undervalued is a individual decision towards his best interests if he doesn't feel Saver values him legitimately or that he can't prosper in this scenario with this ownership, that also doesn't constitute a " freak out" scenario. But rather one of realizing one's own sense of worth and seeking a situation that recognizes and supports his self valuation. Even more sosa business decision in that he'll feel.he has better opportunities for success in an environment that would actually value him and appreciate him more than what Savers' shown or has a well documented history of.
Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.
Again, we'll see how things play out with this situation. But everyone who thinks this won't be a legitimate distraction amongst the team, locker room and to our team chemistry is blanketing themselves in blissful ignorance. Our team runs our offense through Aytons' gravity to get good looks for our shooters. Aytons' also a key defensive player and game changer at times for our team. IF he's distracted or moreover focused on showcasing himself to establish value instead of taking a background complimentary role to Booker and Paul who have already secured their futures, How good will team chemistry be then as a result?
I also get that he's going to be a restricted free agent this season and I get that the suns can offer him a boatload of money. But if Saver wasn't willing to value him enough to give him a full max currently, What in the world makes you think he'll do it after giving Shamet a bigger contract than expected along with also having Bridges deal, Shamets, and both Cams' and Smith's options to see to as well? Whether or not people accept this, There'll be a number of teams now strategizing to be able to offer Ayton the max! Again, at worst if he takes the qualifying offer or forces the suns to match an offer sheet ( could be a max amount beyond the 16 million qualifying offer by the way) from a team on a 1+1, HE DOES HAVE A CHOICE.
At worst he'd maybe lose around 20 million on a qualifying offer. But could easily make that up with a new team with structured incentives. Or even more so if he goes out and signs a 1+1 max offer sheet and becomes a free agent next yr. It all depends upon what his agents as well as he chooses to do. But he's not losing such a life changing amount of money to consider how Saver basically told him he doesn't value him enough to pay him along with everyone else who already got paid. Again, that stings even deeper after Ayton took a back seat offensively for the team to an anchor our defense. And help carry us to the finals, only to be told that he's not worth the money to the suns!!! Some things outweigh money in these matters.
Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol
You may see it has extreme hyperbole depending upon how you measure or scale retribution situationally! It's subjective, So what you infer to be extreme and hyperbole may not be depending upon the situation and how he views fair karma or leveling the playing field, getting even or making his point in general. In not knowing what he considers making his point and or getting even (individual perception) you can't accurately determine if his view of retribution is in fact extreme or hyperbolic at all. And to the context of him leaving out of contempt or in seeking retribution or karmic balance for being wronged in his perspective, His choosing to leave in free agency may not be viewed by most as being extreme or hyperbolic at all as again many instances of players leaving their teams by forced trade or other means ( free agency) are not uncommon. Especially in a climate wherein players have more control and can dictate their destinations. And since many players have/ are still leaving their teams over unhappy situations, it's not really hyperbolic now is it. :D
