2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

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Wearing a Payton jersey is pretty clever (Pay Ayton). I didn't see anything in the video that makes me think he's fine. He's just shooting and I didn't hear or see him laughing.
Doesn't mean anything but I'm just not seeing whatever Rankin is seeing.

I hadn't even watched it when I posted but now did and it's weird you say that because he is definitely the most animated and they only one you hear.

[bwgood77]

As for Shamet, let's wait to see the final numbers before passing judgement. If not all years are guaranteed it's going to look a hell of a lot better (and far more tradeable.)

I don't really mind the length and the 4 year part. The amount, particulary in the 2nd year is concerning considering Ayton, tax, etc.

[BobbieL]

Confused on why Shamet was signed before Ayton.

Listening to the PHNX podcast and they mentioned that Bridges and Shamet's deals may have been completed for a while now. They probably wanted to get DA's done and announce all 3. Once those talks ended, we heard Bridges first and then Landry's.

Sounds like the team simply won't celebrate it now as they know how angry fans are.

I guess that makes sense. I still do not understand why they didn't but it is what it is -
hopefully the team has the kind of season we all expect them to have

[bwgood77]

Confused on why Shamet was signed before Ayton.

Listening to the PHNX podcast and they mentioned that Bridges and Shamet's deals may have been completed for a while now. They probably wanted to get DA's done and announce all 3. Once those talks ended, we heard Bridges first and then Landry's.

Sounds like the team simply won't celebrate it now as they know how angry fans are.

I guess that makes sense. I still do not understand why they didn't but it is what it is -
hopefully the team has the kind of season we all expect them to have

Those press conferences with Bridges saying he hopes something would get done, wants to be in Phx, etc, would be weird if a deal had already been agreed to. Also didn't Woj reported that they were still discussing Shamet deal. I think once they get finalized the agent leaks to Woj..his contacts are mostly likely agents not FOs of teams.

[bwgood77]

There will be no shortage of teams ready to throw a max at Ayton. The Suns will almost certainly match. This is all a complete waste of time.

But the match would presumably be a 3 year deal plus a player option instead of a 5 year deal, then it opens up a scenario where *if he plays well* he can opt out just in time for the new TV deal that's gonna make the cap spike again, and either the Suns or someone else could give him a third contract that makes the current max offer look like a bargain.

I found the second part of this quote on the GB interesting. That would be funny if this is what happens is he gets that 3 year max offer and opts out or contract is over and he is a FA when the cap really spikes making his deal a bargain. What is even funnier is the reports that they were actually offering him a 3 year max.

What I am unsure about though is that when cap goes up big during a max contract does that help increase value of contract. I remember mentioning when the cap did not go up due to COVID this would impact Book not getting as much as originally projected because it is 25% of the cap and was told the projected amounts are written in stone in the contract.

Otherwise you would think a big cap jump because of tv money would help everyone currently on a % max contract since they are on a 25% of cap max, or 30% or 35% of cap max.

The other very odd thing about Phx offering a 3 year max is that after 7 years of play a player is eligible for a 30% max regardless, so if we sign him for 3 years and he becomes an all nba type definite max player, you would have to pay him way more those future years anyway than had you locked him up.

[bwgood77]

There will be no shortage of teams ready to throw a max at Ayton. The Suns will almost certainly match. This is all a complete waste of time.

But the match would presumably be a 3 year deal plus a player option instead of a 5 year deal, then it opens up a scenario where *if he plays well* he can opt out just in time for the new TV deal that's gonna make the cap spike again, and either the Suns or someone else could give him a third contract that makes the current max offer look like a bargain.

I found the second part of this quote on the GB interesting. That would be funny if this is what happens is he gets that 3 year max offer and opts out or contract is over and he is a FA when the cap really spikes making his deal a bargain. What is even funnier is the reports that they were actually offering him a 3 year max.

What I am unsure about though is that when cap goes up big during a max contract does that help increase value of contract. I remember mentioning when the cap did not go up due to COVID this would impact Book not getting as much as originally projected because it is 25% of the cap and was told the projected amounts are written in stone in the contract.

Otherwise you would think a big cap jump because of tv money would help everyone currently on a % max contract since they are on a 25% of cap max, or 30% or 35% of cap max.

The other very odd thing about Phx offering a 3 year max is that after 7 years of play a player is eligible for a 30% max regardless, so if we sign him for 3 years and he becomes an all nba type definite max player, you would have to pay him way more those future years anyway than had you locked him up.

[bigfoot]

Next Season:

Booker 34
Paul 28
Bridges 20
Crowder 10
Saric 10
Shamet 10
Payne 6
Johnson 6
Smith 5
-----
Ayton 29
Minimum 2
Minimum 2
Minimum 2
Minimum 2
Minimum 2

$168m salary - $141m luxury tax = $27m over luxury tax

That would cost Sarver roughly $70m in tax penalties so it'd be wise to keep our eyes open about possibilities.

I am not worried about Ayton we can match the 4 year max and if he wants out we're every chance to get an All-Star in return.

Yep, a progressive tax of $72M you would think has Sarver worried. Gotta wonder how much extra cash he makes from the playoff games? Also, wonder if he's a sell high type of guy since the value of Suns has to be much improved.

[King4Day]

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Wearing a Payton jersey is pretty clever (Pay Ayton). I didn't see anything in the video that makes me think he's fine. He's just shooting and I didn't hear or see him laughing.
Doesn't mean anything but I'm just not seeing whatever Rankin is seeing.

I hadn't even watched it when I posted but now did and it's weird you say that because he is definitely the most animated and they only one you hear.

I can hear him a little but not the usual DA with a smile and all happy. Frank was into it more it seemed.
I just think Rankin overstated that everything is fine. Maybe it is, but that video didn't show anything to say either way.
It's simply DA doing 3pt drills or their own 3pt contest. DA wearing the statement jersey was the key thing to me. It's on his mind.

I wonder what happened to his middle finger. It's taped (might even be a splint). Probably nothing but that's the first I've seen it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

My take on this situation is... I think the FO has been wanting more out of Ayton. A lot of what some of the haytors around here have been asking for - more aggression, more passion, something closer to dominance, on both ends but mostly on offense. When we drafted him, I think we thought we were getting a 25 and 10 guy, and we've been disappointed.

I think the FO stiffed him partly as motivation. Go make an All-NBA team to up your max. Go out there and score 25 PPG. No one's really stopping you. You just have to be aggressive and those touches will be there.

If I had to guess.

[cberry78]

The Suns think DA is a 4/$120 player, DA thinks he is a 5/$170+ player - both sides know that he now has a year to prove that he is a 5/$170+ player. Not a huge deal.

[Revived]

Someone said it above. Ayton is a max player only by the compatible value law. Who is ayton closer to in skillet, John Collins or Anthony Davis? I know that isn't how it works, he'll get the max from someone, but if we trade him for a KAT package, we win the trade.

I want ayton. But it's okay to make the kid prove it. We'll match whatever offer he gets and move on.

If we trade him for a KAT package, we lose big time defensively. Towns isn’t a good defender and he’s an even worse rim protector. He’s way better offensively than Ayton but he doesn’t compliment this team well with what we need at the C spot which is rim protection.

I hope they don’t trade him but if they do, then the only trades that make sense to me would be players like Capela, Turner, Allen etc. Even then I think Ayton is a better player than those guys and he’s younger too but at least unlike a Towns trade, those guys can all defend as well.

I don’t think Suns brass will trade away the first #1 overall pick that they’ve drafted in franchise history. But maybe I’ll be proven wrong.

[King4Day]

Bobby Marks is on NBA radio right now and said if the Suns did offer DA a 4 year max, there's a chance he may have taken it.

Says one concern would be, if they max DA, then they have 2 guys under the designated max, meaning they can't trade for another one if they wanted to (like Simmons for example). I don't get that since the Nuggets have 3 max guys.

He mentioned that Phoenix likely wants him to prove it since giving a max to a 3rd or 4th option can be dangerous.


Personally, I think they'll be willing to offer it to him if he has at least the same year as last year. Any improvement and it's done.

[darmani]

There's a lot of good reasons to not give Ayton a designated player max extension. EOT.

[bwoolf2]

Bobby Marks is on NBA radio right now and said if the Suns did offer DA a 4 year max, there's a chance he may have taken it.

Says one concern would be, if they max DA, then they have 2 guys under the designated max, meaning they can't trade for another one if they wanted to (like Simmons for example). I don't get that since the Nuggets have 3 max guys.

He mentioned that Phoenix likely wants him to prove it since giving a max to a 3rd or 4th option can be dangerous.


Personally, I think they'll be willing to offer it to him if he has at least the same year as last year. Any improvement and it's done.

They probably should have just paid him but it's also not the end of the world they didn't, however he has a good year like I expect him to and Sarver balks at not paying him then, Sarver needs to be ran out 9f town and put on the 1st bus out of here this is is last chance he screws over this team and city again he should never show his face in Phoenix again.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Bobby Marks is on NBA radio right now and said if the Suns did offer DA a 4 year max, there's a chance he may have taken it.

Says one concern would be, if they max DA, then they have 2 guys under the designated max, meaning they can't trade for another one if they wanted to (like Simmons for example). I don't get that since the Nuggets have 3 max guys.

He mentioned that Phoenix likely wants him to prove it since giving a max to a 3rd or 4th option can be dangerous.


Personally, I think they'll be willing to offer it to him if he has at least the same year as last year. Any improvement and it's done.

Yeah man I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on the CBA/cap and the max player thing is confusing. The rule is you are only allowed 2 'max dedicated players' at a time. The 'dedicated' player thing is specifically about raises (30%) and escalators is the reach all NBA teams.

What causes the confusion is how 'max' contracts are reported. A guy can get the max amount but not the 'designated player' part. This is the case with that Porter contract in Denver.

If the disagreement with Ayton was about him demanding to get a real designated player max then honestly I can see why the suns didn't jump at that because it does limit some things they can do.

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[WeekapaugGroove]

So the Ben Simmons thing seems to be going about as expected. Jeez

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[Revived]

This Ben Simmons situation is why teams always have to be sure of the player’s mental capabilities before paying them the max.

When the Sixers paid Simmons the max deal I thought they would regret it but it was seen as a no brainer move at the time.

[King4Day]

This Ben Simmons situation is why teams always have to be sure of the player’s mental capabilities before paying them the max.

When the Sixers paid Simmons the max deal I thought they would regret it but it was seen as a no brainer move at the time.

The thing is, I don't doubt Simmons is worth max. The problem is Rivers and Embiid blamed him for that series loss. If Ben never fixes his shot, so be it. But when your team doesn't have your back, and publicly calls you out....that's where it ends.

[King4Day]

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[LV-Suns]

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I feel nothing. This is not even that bad of a situation. If Ayton actually deserves that max, he can earn it this year. He is not going anywhere unless we allow it. Maxing a young player just based on potential is how we could end up in a Wiggins situation