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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 25 hours and... 

Post#561 » by blee732 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:09 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
blee732 wrote:
DRK wrote:You... Uhmm.. What now?

Thats it.Its 330am here... Im going back to bed. Thats enough RealGM for today


Although I'm not terribly familiar with Horford, one stat that jumps out to me is that Atlanta has been near the bottom of the league in rebounding rate the past few years. Also, Horford's overall rebound % is pretty low, a lot lower than I expected. Admittedly there's a lot more to consider, but I think the comparison between Keef and Horford is closer than many think.

But regardless I'd still take Horford over Kieff any day. From what I understand, he's a huge positive when it comes to being a teammate and overall team/organizational culture.


Time to put this one to bed.

Career comparison-you can look at just about anything....I thought under advanced, VORP popped out pretty big. But WS/48 he doubles him and just about any individual stat...

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPDQs

This year.... http://bkref.com/tiny/8n2b6 Markieff has negative advanced stats....but terrible across board.

If you want to throw this year out, because he will suddenly be a model citizen going forward and always put in 100%, we can look at last year...

http://bkref.com/tiny/kUdJG Horford still blows him away - rebounds, assists, blocks, fg%, more than doubles him in WS/48, almost triples him in VORP, PER 21.8 to 15.4, the list goes on.

Any way you slice it, Horford is on an entirely different level.

Our team doesn't need Horford, but as players, and especially as professional human beings, they are in different stratospheres.


Thanks for gathering all that, definitely agree that it paints a clear picture in Horford's favor. Even though things like advanced stats are heavily influenced by the performance of the overall team, VORP paints a pretty clear picture since it's harder to find a good center which makes Horford more valuable, even if they had the same exact stats everywhere else.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#562 » by Fo-Real » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:09 pm

Haha, our non activity is gonna piss a lot of people on this board off! :lol:
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#563 » by edmjet » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:11 pm

The Suns need some lady luck in this year's draft! With all of the BS and drama going on, and how far the Suns have fallen down to the bottom of the basement, it would be awesome to somehow, someway get the number 1 pick and snag Simmons! Let the Suns shine in!!!
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#564 » by letsgosuns » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:11 pm

Gambo has no idea what the Suns are going to do. He really has not been dialed in on the Suns since McDonough was hired. The only thing he said is Tucker has been told he is not being moved.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#565 » by saintEscaton » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:13 pm

McDonothing is gunna develop arthritis the way he is continuously sitting on his hands. Must be awfully toasty under there, hopefully he manages to pull something outta his a^s
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#566 » by jcsunsfan » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:15 pm

saintEscaton wrote:McDonothing is gunna develop arthritis the way he is sitting on his hands. Must be awfully toasty under there.


Why the name calling? It is inaccurate, McD has always been a very active GM. It just really comes across as juvenile and it doesn't help the discussion either.
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 27 hours and... 

Post#567 » by RunDogGun » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:19 pm

charley barkles wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
dremill24 wrote:
He spoke the truth, I'm sorry you don't like it. I've been to many games, in many different cities. The fans at PHX home games suck, well at least for the Suns. Now if it's a Chicago, Laker, Spurs, or heck any major city, our fans get dwarfed out of the building. Even when GS sucked, their home crowd was very good. I scream my head off at games, call out bad ref calls and players, and the fans around me, wherever I sat, look at you like you should be like a fan at a golf game. Great plays happen all the time, if you aren't there to cheer on your team (and hopefully at Walking Stick, it's for the Suns), and you feel you don't have ANYTHING to cheer for, go home. :nod:

Enough said on the subject, back to trades. Something will happen, but I just don't think it will be anything big for us. It probably looks as if we could do better in the offseason then right now. If anything, it would be to get a player who is restricted, that would be easier to resign than to go after in FA.


Whether Markieff beat the guy up with his own hands or not... he is guilty. Standing there, holding people back and so that the victim gets the s*** knocked out of him... yeah, thats just as bad as whoever did the physical beating.

Was there more cheers for Matt Bonner because he could actually make a basket? How do you cheer for your team when you get blown out? Cheer when they miss? turn it over?

My point with Horford is who cares about the stats... Markieff is not someone you want in your organization. He has bad character. No integrity. Quits on his teammates. Blames others. I haven't seen Horford do any of those things. For that reason alone, it'd be insane to choose Markieff over Horford.

And btw, I thought it was a typo the first time, but since you wrote it twice... it's Talking Stick, not Walking Stick. :lol:


Sorry for the incorrect use of the name, the fans in it act like they're in an old folk's home. Thought it was more fitting. :lol:
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Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 25 hours and counting... 

Post#568 » by Cactus Jack » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:20 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/dougandwolf987/status/700046077618073600[/tweet]

This makes me sad. What's Sarvers big hang up with Colangelo. Jealousy? Everyone and their damn brother knows Colangelo was a way better owner and a respected resident of AZ. Why not embrace it? Some people In life you just want to punch in the face and Sarver for me is one of them.

Mark Cuban had the former owner of the Mavs at the game when the Mavs won their championship and even honored him during the post game speech. Why the hell cant Sarver be a stand up guy and do the same damn thing? So god damn frustrating dealing with Sarver.


Anyway, I digress, hopefully Suns do something today.

Why did he sell the club when he did? He's now back in the league as a consultant for the Sixers.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#569 » by Saberestar » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:20 pm

I am waiting for a simple trade ( like Teletovic for a second round pick or something like that) and not big moves at all.
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Re: RE: Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 25 hours and counting... 

Post#570 » by carey » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:23 pm

Cactus Jack wrote:Why did he sell the club when he did? He's now back in the league as a consultant for the Sixers.


Ask anyone in the know & they will say he was leveraged to the hilt and had to sell it. But the official story is he had a cancer scare.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#571 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:25 pm

Fo-Real wrote:Haha, our non activity is gonna piss a lot of people on this board off! :lol:


It's not non activity unless we don't hear anything by tomorrow at this time. Everyone said to ship out Bledsoe...we are trading him, he is going to take the QO, etc, etc, two summers ago, and I said "We will sign him at some point, even if it is September" and we did. Last trade deadline it all went down at the last minute.

Earlier I said likely nothing will happen until Thursday. Why people get so worked up before that time passes doesn't make sense. Might as well see when everyone puts their chips on the table when time is running out what choices we have.
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Re: RE: Re: The Trade Thread - The end of the phenomenal Kieff/Tucker era? 25 hours and counting... 

Post#572 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:30 pm

carey wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:Why did he sell the club when he did? He's now back in the league as a consultant for the Sixers.


Ask anyone in the know & they will say he was leveraged to the hilt and had to sell it. But the official story is he had a cancer scare.


I always read it was because he was leveraged to the hilt in the newspapers and stuff and heard about the cancer stuff from a long time follower of the organization. The official story certainly wasn't about cancer. I continued to read he kept bringing in more and more investors until everyone had such a small slice of the pie, and the debt was mounting that he had to sell. That was pretty common knowledge at the time.

So if "in the know" is reading newspapers and you think the cancer thing is bogus, fine. But apparently he did have cancer.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#573 » by RunDogGun » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:31 pm

Wasn't Colangelo at Nash's induction ceremony? Damn strange if Sarver hates or is jeolous of Jerry to invite him.

Bottom line, Jerry had to sell the team, because he was bad with his finances.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#574 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:36 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Wasn't Colangelo at Nash's induction ceremony? Damn strange if Sarver hates or is jeolous of Jerry to invite him.

Bottom line, Jerry had to sell the team, because he was bad with his finances.


I wouldn't call it bad with his finances. He was just never a multi millionaire...he rose as a GM for the Suns. To become owner was an achievement in itself, but you act like he gambled away his fortune or something. The only way he could have ever owned the Suns or likely we have a team in Phx at all is because he had to have some major leverage and take out loans. He continued to get investors, but interest builds too.

If interest rates were what they have been lately, he would have likely been fine, especially with the rise in values of nba franchises and all the tv deals. It's just too bad he did sell when he did and couldn't figure a way to hold on. We just didn't have a multimillionaire in Phx that was interested in becoming a major owner until Sarver stepped forward and wanted to eventually have all control. It's just too bad he didn't become a silent investor and fan and let Colangelo continue to run the organization as President or something.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#575 » by RunDogGun » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:43 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Wasn't Colangelo at Nash's induction ceremony? Damn strange if Sarver hates or is jeolous of Jerry to invite him.

Bottom line, Jerry had to sell the team, because he was bad with his finances.


I wouldn't call it bad with his finances. He was just never a multi millionaire...he rose as a GM for the Suns. To become owner was an achievement in itself, but you act like he gambled away his fortune or something. The only way he could have ever owned the Suns or likely we have a team in Phx at all is because he had to have some major leverage and take out loans. He continued to get investors, but interest builds too.

If interest rates were what they have been lately, he would have likely been fine, especially with the rise in values of nba franchises and all the tv deals. It's just too bad he did sell when he did and couldn't figure a way to hold on. We just didn't have a multimillionaire in Phx that was interested in becoming a major owner until Sarver stepped forward and wanted to eventually have all control. It's just too bad he didn't become a silent investor and fan and let Colangelo continue to run the organization as President or something.


Creating $200 million in debt, is being bad with ones finances, is it not? Glad Sarver did step up, it would have sucked to go through what Seattle did. JC made tons of mistakes, as did Bryan, it seems as if so many forget this.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#576 » by JJ13 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:44 pm

Still hoping for Stanley Johnson...Illy's gone, Harris is a SF...logjam with KCP, Harris and Johnson. Include Knight to play Combo next to Jackson. DET makes twin magic with nice line-up of Jackson-Knight-Harris-Kieff-Drummond...with Blake, KCP, Marcus coming off bench...pretty nice core on good contracts

Suns take on a couple contracts (Meeks, Baynes) but get a future stud in Johnson. Still leaves us with big hole at PF, but Bled-Booker-Johnson is great young core, with TJ coming off the bench. Like warriors, building small to big.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#578 » by Fo-Real » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:47 pm

Dude, they are not going to give us Stanly, not one chance in hell, he can play sg also. We have a better chance of Marcus being traded back to us.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#579 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:47 pm

JJ13 wrote:Sorry here is the trade http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hkefuun

You realize Detroit traded Knight away before, right? Doubt they want him back.
SHAZAM!

Suns traded Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and 4 1st round picks and a swap so some Vegas Bookies would like us.
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Re: Trade Deadline Countdown - Markieff? Tucker? Teletovic? 23 hours and counting... 

Post#580 » by blee732 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:50 pm

JJ13 wrote:Sorry here is the trade http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hkefuun

I love how that somehow nets out to -2 wins for each team.

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