Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[Qwigglez]

I would do this...
Warren/Len/Knight/Tucker + 2017 1st round pick, 2 Miami 1st for Cousins/Gay

Bledsoe/Booker/Gay/Chriss/Cousins

I would hate to lose Warren but he is showing All-Star talent. Gay is a good replacement and we can sign him to a 3 year deal after this year while Bender develops off the bench and eventually takes over the starting 3 in a few years. Yes we give up our 1st round pick for the upcoming draft but we already got Booker/Chriss/Bender to develop. This trade would be along the lines of what the Clippers did to acquire CP3 except we are giving up a lot more assets.
Here is the Clippers/Hornets trade: CP3 for Gordon/Kaman/Aminu and a 1st from Minny. Gordon at the time was averaging 22/4.5/3/1.3. Warren is currently averaging 22/6/1/2.

Could possibly start Chandler at center and Cousins at PF but then we'd have no backup bigs.

[m1chal]

That's too much for Cousins, I wouldn't do it.

[TeamTragic]

I would do this...
Warren/Len/Knight/Tucker + 2017 1st round pick, 2 Miami 1st for Cousins/Gay

Bledsoe/Booker/Gay/Chriss/Cousins

I would hate to lose Warren but he is showing All-Star talent. Gay is a good replacement and we can sign him to a 3 year deal after this year while Bender develops off the bench and eventually takes over the starting 3 in a few years. Yes we give up our 1st round pick for the upcoming draft but we already got Booker/Chriss/Bender to develop. This trade would be along the lines of what the Clippers did to acquire CP3 except we are giving up a lot more assets.
Here is the Clippers/Hornets trade: CP3 for Gordon/Kaman/Aminu and a 1st from Minny. Gordon at the time was averaging 22/4.5/3/1.3. Warren is currently averaging 22/6/1/2.

Could possibly start Chandler at center and Cousins at PF but then we'd have no backup bigs.

Are you being serious right now? Give up Warren and multiple picks?

[Zelaznyrules]

That's too much for Cousins, I wouldn't do it.

If you think he's the best or close to the best center in the game and you're pretty positive he'll re-sign with you, it probably isn't too much. It's essentially 3 medium value 1st round picks, Warren and some low value players. And I'd say Gay alone is easily worth the low value players (Knight, Len and Tucker).

But I think he's overrated and a bad risk for our organization, so for me, it's too much.

[Villalobos]

Kinda close to mine. Everyone except Booker, Chriss and one of Bender/Warren.

I look at it this was, Chriss is our future PF. Bender, even though he is 7 feet tall, doesnt have the skillset to play PF or C. The kid is a SF, just like Warren. Warren has proven that he can score the ball while playing the SF spot, but lacks the rebounds/assists/steals/blocks/3 point shot to be considered an all-star there. Bender is just young, raw, and unproven so far. As long as we can hold on to one of Warren or Bender to be our future starting SF, im good. Thats why i replace Chriss in your proposal with Warren.

I don't see how you can include Warren. His numbers are just crazy. He is currently the best player from that 2014 class, and he is showing consistent improvement every year. Cousins is eligible for a higher salary and will be maxed. Warren is as much of a deal breaker for me as Booker. If they require a SF then I'd rather trade Bender.

The only crazy numbers are his points (on 41% shooting). Everything else is ordinary or below. To me, he has Rudy Gay written all over him, and i challenge anyone to convince me otherwise. Cool, he can score 20 points a game, but what else does he contribute to the team. Can he get a solid 20 points per game when the rest of the team isnt dogging it in the dumps like we have been for the past 5 games? Who knows, but i see a poormans Rudy Gay.

And to say that Warren is BETTER than guys like Wiggins/Parker/Randle/Lavine/Nurkić/Harris/Jokić/Grant, that just shows how rosey some fans glasses can be.

Gary Harris? Grant? Breh, maybe you need to take these off:



You mention Wiggins and Parker (or even Lavine) in the same breath as "cool, he can score 20 points in a game, but what else does he contribute to the team." Those guys are even worse defenders than Warren. Neither are great playmakers. The only elite parts of Wiggins game better than Warren are getting to the line (dude's been getting superstar calls since his rookie year) and jumping high. Jabari and Wiggins are finally shooting 3s well this season, but it's only been a few games so there's no real sample size. Wiggins shot terribly in pre-season, for instance.

Nah, I doubt Warren's the best player in his draft. I'm not sure who that is, maybe one of those Denver bigs or Embiid if he can stay healthy. But it's not crazy at all to say he'd be near the top in a re-draft, top 5 or something like that. Rodney Hood is the only other small forward I might want right now over him and there are no elite guards from that draft. Wiggins has all the physical tools to be an elite two way player, but he can't defend at all or just doesn't give a crap and he only plays with any sort of fire maybe 1/4th of the time. It's frustrating watching him. Maybe a few years with Thibs will help.

[PackSuns]

Kinda close to mine. Everyone except Booker, Chriss and one of Bender/Warren.

I look at it this was, Chriss is our future PF. Bender, even though he is 7 feet tall, doesnt have the skillset to play PF or C. The kid is a SF, just like Warren. Warren has proven that he can score the ball while playing the SF spot, but lacks the rebounds/assists/steals/blocks/3 point shot to be considered an all-star there. Bender is just young, raw, and unproven so far. As long as we can hold on to one of Warren or Bender to be our future starting SF, im good. Thats why i replace Chriss in your proposal with Warren.

I don't see how you can include Warren. His numbers are just crazy. He is currently the best player from that 2014 class, and he is showing consistent improvement every year. Cousins is eligible for a higher salary and will be maxed. Warren is as much of a deal breaker for me as Booker. If they require a SF then I'd rather trade Bender.

The only crazy numbers are his points (on 41% shooting). Everything else is ordinary or below. To me, he has Rudy Gay written all over him, and i challenge anyone to convince me otherwise. Cool, he can score 20 points a game, but what else does he contribute to the team. Can he get a solid 20 points per game when the rest of the team isnt dogging it in the dumps like we have been for the past 5 games? Who knows, but i see a poormans Rudy Gay.

And to say that Warren is BETTER than guys like Wiggins/Parker/Randle/Lavine/Nurkić/Harris/Jokić/Grant, that just shows how rosey some fans glasses can be.

Not sure what you have been watching. We are talking about TJ Warren right?

[Kerrsed]

Ok, with Grant, i was confusing him with Covington, so my bad. Thats the only one that i will secede from.

My statement was that Warren isnt the easy clear-cut best of the 2014 draft like was stated. I do put guys like Wiggins/Parker/Randle above him, and believe that he is in the same tier as the others (Lavine due to scoring instincts, Harris for his defense and Nurkić/Jokić for their ability to effect the game in all aspects that they should as bigmen like rebounds/blocks/steals while also being able to score). If there was a redo with that draft all over again would Warren be the #1 pick? Nope. Would he be somewhere in the top 10, yes.

You guys are also on this, "OH MY GOD, WARREN IS SOOOOOO AMAZING!! Sure, its only been 6 games and our team has sucked ass and our real future all-star Booker has played like hot garbage due to teams now stepping up their defensive pressure against him, but Warren is the greatest!!!" I give him credit for stepping up, but man, some of you guys are going completely overboard this early in the season.

Team has been garbage, and he has played the best on a hot mess of a team. Its Rudy Gay. Once Booker and/or Bledsoe start to get going, lets see if Warren can continue. Wiggins/Lavine have been playing good next to an all-star player in KAT. The Bucks have an absolute stud in Antetopoetopjwe;rgh;gfnh1, yet Parker still has been playing great next to him. Its like the past few seasons when i point out a player and the #1 thing i hear is, "He is only putting up stats like that because his team is sooooo bad" (Yes, i have heard that a lot, specially when it came to the 76ers).

To top all this off, it all started when i said i would do Warren OR Bender instead of Chriss OR Bender. To me, one of these guys is our future SF, hell i think i even stated that. Bender has the higher ceiling in my opinion, but who knows if he will ever reach it. But it is funny that just me changing the trade to keeping Chriss and MAYBE including Warren is what started all this "Kerrsed is crazy and hates Warren stuff", when its far from the truth. I just majorly disagreed with the statement that he is the best of the 2014 draft and included some names who i think are better or on par with him.

....or maybe it was that i called and compared him to Rudy Gay......which i still dont think is all that far off.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How do you who are Suns fans feel about this trade idea:

Tyson Chandler and John Jenkins for Marcin Gortat and Trey Burke?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

IIRC Gortat doesn't like the Suns front office, so that may not be the best idea. On paper it's fine. Kind of a lateral move for both teams, probably worse for Washington because Chandler's usefulness could sink fast with age.

Thanks!

Phoenix has seriously upgraded with young talent. Gortat is real tight with Jared Dudley. Both are sharp guys, probably future coaches. Marcin Gortat would be an ideal mentor for Alex Len and Dragan Bender! Gortat is a seasoned, skilled professional.

Washington is paying Ian Mahinmi considerably more than Marcin.

Would the Suns take him back?

(Washington could also include Jason Smith and a round 2 pick for PJ A Tucker.)

Any others care to weigh in?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

[m1chal]

Phoenix has seriously upgraded with young talent. Gortat is real tight with Jared Dudley. Both are sharp guys, probably future coaches. Marcin Gortat would be an ideal mentor for Alex Len and Dragan Bender! Gortat is a seasoned, skilled professional.

Washington is paying Ian Mahinmi considerably more than Marcin.

Would the Suns take him back?

(Washington could also include Jason Smith and a round 2 pick for PJ A Tucker.)

Any others care to weigh in?

I would do it but being Polish I'm obviously biased I guess you will not find many takers for Marcin because people here mostly remember his fondness for layins instead of dunks and forget that his midrange game is much better than Chandler's.
To me both are similar players putting up comparable numbers but Gortat is younger and healthier. Both are professionals and great mentors for younger players. I would say Gortat would be easier to trade away in a couple of years if necessary. The problem might be that Gortat being more of a PnR player is more dependant on his PG and ours are laughable distrbutors compared to Wall.

[Kerrsed]

How do you who are Suns fans feel about this trade idea:

Tyson Chandler and John Jenkins for Marcin Gortat and Trey Burke?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

IIRC Gortat doesn't like the Suns front office, so that may not be the best idea. On paper it's fine. Kind of a lateral move for both teams, probably worse for Washington because Chandler's usefulness could sink fast with age.

Thanks!

Phoenix has seriously upgraded with young talent. Gortat is real tight with Jared Dudley. Both are sharp guys, probably future coaches. Marcin Gortat would be an ideal mentor for Alex Len and Dragan Bender! Gortat is a seasoned, skilled professional.

Washington is paying Ian Mahinmi considerably more than Marcin.

Would the Suns take him back?

(Washington could also include Jason Smith and a round 2 pick for PJ A Tucker.)

Any others care to weigh in?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

I just dont see it happening. Its kind of a lateral move for us. It really doesnt do much at all for us in any way. Gortats time here was short and he never reached the expected level of play that we were looking for. I cant stress to you how frustraited we were with him and his constant habit of going soft to the rim and missing easy lay-ins/dunks. Honestly, i would try to keep Len as far away from him as possible, as he exhibits the same issues that Gortat had. Chandler is the perfect "Seasoned Skilled Professional" that Len should be learning from, but i am starting to think that Len is Learning Challenged and believe that his time here might be coming to an end soon. I'd rather our young bigs learn from a former all-star, former defensive player of the year, former champ that is known for his defense and his fire than a soft Gortat.

On top of that, i believe Gortat also trashed the organization when he was traded. Now many of those faces are no longer here, but still, you dont burn bridges.

[Qwigglez]

I would do this...
Warren/Len/Knight/Tucker + 2017 1st round pick, 2 Miami 1st for Cousins/Gay

Bledsoe/Booker/Gay/Chriss/Cousins

I would hate to lose Warren but he is showing All-Star talent. Gay is a good replacement and we can sign him to a 3 year deal after this year while Bender develops off the bench and eventually takes over the starting 3 in a few years. Yes we give up our 1st round pick for the upcoming draft but we already got Booker/Chriss/Bender to develop. This trade would be along the lines of what the Clippers did to acquire CP3 except we are giving up a lot more assets.
Here is the Clippers/Hornets trade: CP3 for Gordon/Kaman/Aminu and a 1st from Minny. Gordon at the time was averaging 22/4.5/3/1.3. Warren is currently averaging 22/6/1/2.

Could possibly start Chandler at center and Cousins at PF but then we'd have no backup bigs.

Are you being serious right now? Give up Warren and multiple picks?

It's really not that far off.
First off, you gotta give up some legit talent to get legit talent.I know nobody is crying about giving up Len/Knight/Tucker though. The multiple picks I doubt will ever put the numbers that Boogie puts up. And even if let's say we got a top 5 pick, and the best consensus player at that pick is another SG/SF/PF, positions we already got covered for the future are we going to draft BPA or go with need there? Too many variables with picks and it's a huge gamble anyway.

I'd rather trade for Boogie and solidify our starting unit which I think could be a top 5 team in the West this year if we did trade for gay cousins.

I know there is an argument where we could just wait to get Cousins in 2018 free agency, but maybe CP3 decided to join him this offseason with Griffin (highly unlikely but still). I just think if we had the opportunity to get Cousins without giving up Booker/Bender/Chriss we should absolutely do it even if it means giving up the Miami picks. Would the offer I posted be enough to get Cousins? Maybe not, but it's what I would offer.

[gaspar]

Spoiler:

How do you who are Suns fans feel about this trade idea:

Tyson Chandler and John Jenkins for Marcin Gortat and Trey Burke?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

IIRC Gortat doesn't like the Suns front office, so that may not be the best idea. On paper it's fine. Kind of a lateral move for both teams, probably worse for Washington because Chandler's usefulness could sink fast with age.

Thanks!

Phoenix has seriously upgraded with young talent. Gortat is real tight with Jared Dudley. Both are sharp guys, probably future coaches. Marcin Gortat would be an ideal mentor for Alex Len and Dragan Bender! Gortat is a seasoned, skilled professional.

Washington is paying Ian Mahinmi considerably more than Marcin.

Would the Suns take him back?

(Washington could also include Jason Smith and a round 2 pick for PJ A Tucker.)

Any others care to weigh in?

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

I just dont see it happening. Its kind of a lateral move for us. It really doesnt do much at all for us in any way. Gortats time here was short and he never reached the expected level of play that we were looking for. I cant stress to you how frustraited we were with him and his constant habit of going soft to the rim and missing easy lay-ins/dunks. Honestly, i would try to keep Len as far away from him as possible, as he exhibits the same issues that Gortat had. Chandler is the perfect "Seasoned Skilled Professional" that Len should be learning from, but i am starting to think that Len is Learning Challenged and believe that his time here might be coming to an end soon. I'd rather our young bigs learn from a former all-star, former defensive player of the year, former champ that is known for his defense and his fire than a soft Gortat.

On top of that, i believe Gortat also trashed the organization when he was traded. Now many of those faces are no longer here, but still, you dont burn bridges.

No, he didn't. Quite the opposite actually.

“I just want to beat them. Quite honestly, I just want to beat them bad,” Gortat said with a laugh, before explaining himself. “No hard feelings. I was never mad at these guys when I was leaving. It’s part of the game.”

After spending a few months working with new Coach Jeff Hornacek and observing first-year General Manager Ryan McDonough, Gortat said he isn’t completely shocked by the Suns’ run.

“I’m not. They have a very good coaching staff, a very good GM, they have a few young players, rising stars,” he said. “They have a great system. They have a great defensive coordinator. They’re young, they just enjoy playing.”

Gortat, who turns 30 next month, realized that his time in Phoenix was nearing its end when he arrived for training camp and the team had three young big men in fifth overall pick Alex Len of Maryland, Miles Plumlee and Slava Kravtsov. Though he never reached the playoffs in parts of three seasons in Phoenix, Gortat was still stung by the trade.

“There will be some emotions, for sure. I will have some emotions. I've been there for three years and I ain’t going to lie,” Gortat said. “Obviously, playing against your ex-team, it's always exciting and people are pumped up for that. But I don't have a particular reason to prepare for this game, like I really, really want to win, like I really want to show them who I am or what can I do. I don’t think it's about that. You just want to win the game, basically. Prove that you’re a good player. That’s it.”

LINK

[m1chal]

It really doesnt do much at all for us in any way. Gortats time here was short and he never reached the expected level of play that we were looking for.

That's interesting. What exactly did we expect then? I thought we were trading for Dwight's backup not Dwight himself?

[kennydorglas]

WCS pilling up some DNC-CD too
Can we make a deal for him?

[NavLDO]

If Cousins is on the block we should be offering, but we should be offering things like picks and vets and in no scenario should Booker, Warren, Chriss, or Bender be involved imo. Everyone else should be on the table though, including our picks.

Vlade is so bad it's possible he gets very little, particularly if other GMs are scared of Cousins as this suggests. He doesn't even understand the salary cap or that trades have to be reported to the league office after being agreed to.

Maybe we can convince him that Knight is still the player he was in Milwaukee, throw in one of our centers, and a couple picks and get him.

If Vlade is bad enough, we might be able to fool him enough to let us make that trade!! But apparently, not, since the RUMINT is that he is asking too much...his funeral, but he's about to lose Boogie for nothing instead of getting SOMETHING for him.

I'd even be willing to take on Gay and add more pieces not named Ulis, Booker, Warren, Chriss, or Bender.

Here you go:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hky9mtp

Then McD negotiates what picks we are handing over to Vlade and we're done. He's getting a valuable, and honestly, 'kick butt' Center/Mentor to the other 4 Centers they have on their roster. They get Bledsoe who is >>> better than what he's giving back in Collison, and he gets Tucker to fill in the minutes lost by Gay, who he wants to get rid of anyway...AND Tucker is expiring, so he can figure out his plan for SF in the off-season.

Yeah, I know, seems light on our end, but if you look at the 'surrounding factors' in this trade, rather than the straight up PER matches, you see they are getting a fair deal, and possibly, even enough to POSSIBLY vie for a playoff spot, when you consider Vlade's losing the attitudes, and gaining solid players in return.

[m1chal]

I'd even throw Knight in
But no way the Kings are going to do this trade.

[NavLDO]

Everyone except Booker, Warren and one of Bender/Chriss, I would give up. Which doesn't leave much since most of the value on our team is concentrated around Booker, Warren and to a much lesser degree, Bledsoe.

Kinda close to mine. Everyone except Booker, Chriss and one of Bender/Warren.

I look at it this was, Chriss is our future PF. Bender, even though he is 7 feet tall, doesnt have the skillset to play PF or C. The kid is a SF, just like Warren. Warren has proven that he can score the ball while playing the SF spot, but lacks the rebounds/assists/steals/blocks/3 point shot to be considered an all-star there. Bender is just young, raw, and unproven so far. As long as we can hold on to one of Warren or Bender to be our future starting SF, im good. Thats why i replace Chriss in your proposal with Warren.

I see both as equally capable of being our future PF. With the way the NBA big men is evolving, I see no reason why Bender, even without the bulk to bang in the post, couldn't play in tomorrow's NBA. He's the definition of a stretch big with his handles, 3PT shot, weakside shot blocking and ability to switch on the PnR. Chriss also seems like a MoBros type of 6'10. Small body with short arms but a long neck. He just seems small out there. At least, if it gets into the post, Bender has the length to cover other big men. Chriss does have that elite athleticism and instincts that could prove to be very useful going forward. I still like to see more of both players but I would only consider one of them close to untouchable if we trade the other.

I'm on the fence with Warren. He's proven he can be a very efficient scorer, something like a 3rd scoring option on a very good playoff team. I also think he's a solid rebounder for his position. He's currently sitting at tied-11th for rebounds for a SF. He still has a boatload of potential so I wouldn't want to move him just yet. But for a deal involving a top 3 C who is still young, I'd have to think on it.

So, what more do you want from Warren than what he's already producing in his 3rd (but really, 2nd year, considering he started this season with only 87 games played...). The man is scoring at a high volume...EFFICIENTLY, I might add, as opposed to others on this roster. He's averaging over 2 steals a game, on top of his 22 pts and 6 TRBs. He's been shooting 40% from 3 dating back to last season...and yet somehow, he's an easy piece to throw in a trade?? (not you, lilfishi...in general)

So how posters here can even 2nd guess Warren's ability, while 'bowing down' to the all-mighty Booker, when Warren is doing everything Booker is doing...only more efficiently, with a third less TOVs, more TRBs, higher 3PT%, higher TS%, so on and so forth, all the while understanding that Warren has a whopping 12 total game advantage in NBA experience over Booker.

Honestly, what more can Warren do to show that he's the real deal and was a steal in the '14 draft. He's been great since he's been in the league, and he's continuing to progress. Right now, to me?? Warren is every bit as vital to our future success as Booker has shown. And I hold Warren in as high of regard as Booker in worth, and NEITHER should even closely be considered in a trade; those two are my top two DO NOT TOUCH list for trades.

[bwgood77]

So how posters here can even 2nd guess Warren's ability, while 'bowing down' to the all-mighty Booker, when Warren is doing everything Booker is doing...only more efficiently, with a third less TOVs, more TRBs, higher 3PT%, higher TS%, so on and so forth, all the while understanding that Warren has a whopping 12 total game advantage in NBA experience over Booker.

He also is among the league leaders in steals.

[bwgood77]

Leandro Barbosa 2016-17 Current PER: 9.75
League Average Comparison: -5.25
2015-16 PER: 11.81

Dragan Bender 2016-17 Current PER: 17.55
League Average Comparison: +2.55

Eric Bledsoe 2016-17 Current PER: 15.40
League Average Comparison: +0.40
2015-16 PER: 20.10

Devin Booker 2016-17 Current PER: 14.52
League Average Comparison: -0.48
2015-16 PER: 12.00

Tyson Chandler 2016-17 Current PER: 13.95
League Average Comparison: -1.05
2015-16 PER: 14.73

Marquese Chriss 2016-17 Current PER: 9.87
League Average Comparison: -5.13

Jared Dudley 2016-17 Current PER: 10.25
League Average Comparison: -4.75
2015-16 PER: 11.69

John Jenkins 2016-17 Current PER: --
League Average Comparison: -15.00
2015-16 PER: 10.04

Brandon Knight 2016-17 Current PER: 6.75
League Average Comparison: -8.25
2015-16 PER: 14.75

Alex Len 2016-17 Current PER: 15.65
League Average Comparison: +0.65
2015-16 PER: 12.49

P.J. Tucker 2016-17 Current PER: 4.22
League Average Comparison: -10.78
2015-16 PER: 10.85

Tyler Ulis 2016-17 Current PER: 12.71
League Average Comparison: -2.29

TJ Warren 2016-17 Current PER: 20.42
League Average Comparison: +5.42
2015-16 PER: 15.78

Alan Williams 2016-17 Current PER: -0.98
League Average Comparison: -15.98
2015-16 PER: 21.15

http://www.espn.com/nba/teams/hollinger/_/team/PHX

[RaisingArizona]

I don't see the point in parting with Warren or Booker for anyone. Our best two players on cheap deals and they're young. Why even take the risk?