Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[Qwigglez]

anyone got the fight online?

[AtheJ415]

But that's the point. Suns don't plan to resign him. If Thomas can't currently be traded for value given the injury then rehab him to a point where he does have value. Suns have the time to do that.

They allow Thomas to rehab the hip and then showcase his health/skill before the trade deadline. If the Suns, after conducting a physical, believe he can be on the court at full strength by the middle of January it's worth a shot.

His salary v skill ratio is off the charts. There will be teams who want cheap talent on a rental or who may be willing to trade for Thomas a give him a large deal.

Suns receive a young center, 2 firsts, and move on from Chandler or Dudleys contract. Even if they lose Thomas for nothing it's a decent deal. It's an ultimate tank move.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Problem is he may be out longer than that, and, even if he is healthy by the break, nobody is going to give up a ton for 1/2 a season of him. Best case scenario we are getting a late 1st from a playoff team, and we could get that just by taking Aldrich's salary.

But he expires. Even if you get nothing you are looking at 2 firsts, Zizic, and unloading Chandler/Dudley salary. I think Shump opts out.

Honestly, I wouldn't do it. Keep Bledsoe, tank and we have a shot at signing Cousins and taking a big leap in 18/19.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Why would anybody give us 2 firsts in that scenario plus Zizic?

[jredsaz]

Problem is he may be out longer than that, and, even if he is healthy by the break, nobody is going to give up a ton for 1/2 a season of him. Best case scenario we are getting a late 1st from a playoff team, and we could get that just by taking Aldrich's salary.

But he expires. Even if you get nothing you are looking at 2 firsts, Zizic, and unloading Chandler/Dudley salary. I think Shump opts out.

Honestly, I wouldn't do it. Keep Bledsoe, tank and we have a shot at signing Cousins and taking a big leap in 18/19.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Why would anybody give us 2 firsts in that scenario plus Zizic?

I had a proposal. Doesn't matter. But taking on Thomas has value for a team like the Suns. I havent head any report that he will be out til the break.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[Frank Lee]

anyone got the fight online?

yup.... had it from a russian feed.... (dont tell Trump)

Spoiler:

CmcG gassed then gone. Who would have thought conditioning would factor in? He was sucking wind after 4.

[DirtyDez]

As long as the BRK pick doesn't fail it's physical the deal will go thru.

well I guess CLE's medical staff hypothetically can check out the top ten lottery candidates...unless this is some kind of joke that's going over my head...oh wait, this is your way of saying it's already a done deal irregardless of IT's health, and this news is just filler (good one)

Isaiah is the 2nd best asset in the deal.

if CLE is trying to win a championship this year and retain Lebron, then not really

Can't re member if it was Woj or McMenamin but the story a few weeks ago about the Cavs treating the trade like preparation of life after a Lebron. Isaiah is an excellent win-piece but that pick is the gold mine. Just like Bledsoe could step in for Kyrie but Jackson is the main piece. Really seems like amateur hour for Ainge right now overpaying b/c Isaiah is hurt.

[MrMiyagi]

anyone got the fight online?

yup.... had it from a russian feed.... (dont tell Trump)

Spoiler:

CmcG gassed then gone. Who would have thought conditioning would factor in? He was sucking wind after 4.

Spoiler:

Yeah, McGregor gets winded in his UFC bouts, it was bound to happen in a boxing match.

[AtheJ415]

Does anybody actually know if Peters has signed yet?

[JoRain]

Does anybody actually know if Peters has signed yet?

yes, he signed two way deal

[NavLDO]

I was saying over and over this year that the market for len and centers in general would be soft this summer but even i didn't think noel would take the QO. Now I also thought the talk of the mini max for noel was silly but figured hed get around 15 per. I'm not so sure the market will be any better for these guys next summer unless the cap takes a big spike.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, I think the market has dried up for Cs especially, but I've read that GMs expect kind of a FA market "depression" next offseason since we had our FA $$ bubble last offseason and with a couple teams this offseason. That's why I don't expect Warren to get any really big offers or him to be too pricey.

(I'll address this first; our 'confrontation' from two weeks ago is done; we aren't 'chics' [though you are Chargers fan, so... ]. You want to hold a grudge and take pot shots, and drag it on, like you did here...
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1606694&start=60#start_here
...that's your prerogative. But to me--just agree to disagree, and move on. So with that said...)

I hope you are right, and Warren does not price himself out of the Suns future plans this next season. I haven't read beyond this point, yet even though I posted beyond here...did anyone answer whether we are allowed to sign Warren now? Not sure if his agent would go for it, but if McD offered higher than his worth, to date, but lower than an amount he might command if he blows up this year, maybe he'd sign for the. Plus, he turns 24 in a couple of weeks. He could sign a 4 year deal; something along the lines of what MKG or Middleton make per year...so a 4 yr/$54M or $56M?

Then, we do everything possible to 'unload' either BK or Chandler to help offset the cost. But I fear if we wait until next year, all it takes is one team to offer him $20+M, right, and we have to match, or let him go?

[NavLDO]

I'm really torn about whether I want this deal to be vetoed.

On the one thing, I would find it incredibly funny. The awkwardness of those guys going back to Boston would be epic. Also, the fact that Boston overpaid is a positive to Phoenix in relation to future trades. On the other hand, if Boston is out, and it is because of IT's hip, then that trade essentially became Crowder, Zizic, and Nets pick. Phoenix is one of the few teams who would still make sense, and if you remove IT from the deal, you are left with not nearly as much. Crowder, Zizic is a late first, and then the Nets pick. Something like Bledsoe and Warren might be better than that because Bledsoe>>Crowder and Warren>Zizic.

Regardless, I feel like the most likely thing to occur from this may be that Boston has to add a future pick or something. I don't expect Boston to walk away from that type of request and have to deal with IT and Crowder coming back.

I don't understand the bolded part because why would the Cavs accept the deal just because they are getting an extra pick? Sure the picks are nice, but if IT is dealing with a serious injury or could be out most of the season that really ruins any hope at a championship run this season or any hope of Lebron staying. If I'm the Cavs I back out immediately to find another package that is similar.

I don't think they believe Lebron is really staying unless they can pull a package like the Celtics deal. The problem is no other team can offer that. Phoenix is the only other team with that combo of players and picks and there is no way we are including a pick as valuable as that Brooklyn one, and I don't think we have the win-now players of IT and Crowder's caliber. We have just Bled really, and Dudley/Chandler/etc. are not as good as and as favorable contract-wise as Crowder.

It is of my opinion that we should. I've been 'banging the table' for Kyrie since the rumors started, and again, really, just to aid us towards getting back on the winning track, then attracting more stars.

And while Dudley is not on as favorable a contract, and is older, he is just one season removed from having a comparable season to Crowder's last year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/foefR

Yes, Jae's was better, but Dudley, as a career 40% PT shooter, is valuable to a 'win now' squad more than us, I'd say.

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

I don't care about next year's 'early' draft pick; we can still get a quality Big later in the 1st, and especially if we bring back Len and ACTUALLY give him a chance.

If not, then we can try Option B and hope that Bledsoe is enough to lure either DMC or Bron, but... 'bird in the hand'...

Kyrie/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Len...or...Kyrie/Booker/Warren/Chriss/Williams...or...Kyrie/Booker/Warren/Bender/Len...or...well, you get the point. We have plenty of young options.

[Waylay13]

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

[collidingNeurons]

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

i really think Boston and Cleveland work this out and we don't have to worry about it too much, but i'm in agreement with you, Kyrie as great an offensive player as he is doesn't move the needle much for a team like Phoenix and i don't buy the whole idea he will attract other free agents since he can and will likely leave in 2 years if traded to somewhere not of his liking

[BobbieL]

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

i really think Boston and Cleveland work this out and we don't have to worry about it too much, but i'm in agreement with you, Kyrie as great an offensive player as he is doesn't move the needle much for a team like Phoenix and i don't buy the whole idea he will attract other free agents since he can and will likely leave in 2 years if traded to somewhere not of his liking

I still think a deal gets done too - because that Unprotected pick is pretty damn valuable for the Cavs. They can either use at the deadline or keep it for themselves. As the team stands now - the Cavs can trade Shumpert, RJ, Frye - which is about 20m of cap space for a player if they attach that pick at the deadline. So if I am the Cavs, I hope Isiah might miss a few months at most, maybe be back in January - you will still be fine come play off time

And also the Suns would not be trading Josh J or that pick. If the Suns really wanted to take they would offer Bledsoe for Isiah and Frye to the Cavs if the Cavs do not thin Isiah would be ready. Suns would get two expirings for Bledsoe - if that's the route they would want to go

[NavLDO]

Any one have any interest in Smart?

Saw a trade idea to help with the Boston/Cleveland trade, pretty much having us use Bledsoe to replace IT and getting Smart/Shumpert/BOS 1st in return.

I like the idea of a defensive PG next to Booker, but damn Smarts offense is bad.

I love Smart as a player...he's better than what Fox was coming out on both sides of the ball....better 3 pt shooter, but quite a bit better defender. The problem is that you just can't have offensive liabilities on the floor much anymore. Since IT was insane offensively for them it worked and would probably work either Kyrie. Our offensive efficiency is already so bad it would only get worse with him, but of course with improved defense. I'd pass.

I wouldn't say he's better than Fox offensively. His shooting numbers are worse than Fox's in college overall (TS and EFG). And with Fox you know he can get to the hoop at the NBA level due to his speed, which is very valuable. I can't see anything Smart does at a good level on offense in the NBA aside from FT%. He is a better defender, but he is so bad offensively 3 years in that I would much rather run the chance of Fox developing than Smart. Looking at his numbers he is shooting about the same from everywhere as his rookie year, with roughly the same shooting attempt rate, and with only improvement from the FT line. I would expect at least some legitimate minor improvement by now given how bad he was coming out on the offensive end. Besides, mindset matters and Smart straight chucks on offense. And when you watch him they aren't good shots. He almost has Brandon Knight's mentality imo (Knight takes a couple more shots a game/minute, but Knight is also a much better shooter than Smart sadly).

Another issue is he has a reputation as a winner (similar to Knight), which means he will get paid a premium that might not be warranted (like Knight), and he is an FA fairly soon.

I honestly wouldn't trade any of our youngsters for him except maybe Peters. Maybe I am being too harsh there, but I would rather Ulis get those minutes. Imo Ulis will end up better than Smart within 2 years. I'd take a pick or Bled way above Smart.

If we could get him for one of the vets, like Dudley or Chandler, okay. Then I'd be alright taking the chance on him given his age with the hopes he becomes anything on offense.

And look at his Playoff Numbers. Stls --> ; eFG% --> ; 3PT% --> ; TRBs --> ; TS% --> ...point being, it these types of things that help portray that type of reputation. When you play BETTER in a 'higher amped' environment, that's a positive for a player, IMO. He didn't 'crumble' under the pressure; he embraced it. He didn't 'explode' or anything, but he did improve somewhat.

[Bogyo]

And also the Suns would not be trading Josh J or that pick. If the Suns really wanted to take they would offer Bledsoe for Isiah and Frye to the Cavs if the Cavs do not thin Isiah would be ready. Suns would get two expirings for Bledsoe - if that's the route they would want to go

That's the best idea I've heard in a while! We play the youth as much as we have too ( A FRIGGIN LOT) early in the season, give them all the experience they need. While doing so we pretty much ensure a top 5 pick for the 2018 draft. Let IT rehab, then return in december 10-15 games before the trade deadline, then try to give him and Frye away for a team on a playoff run, and get an additional mid first round pick in the process. Then go all in on Boogie with all the cap space, and maybe an additional star for 1-2 of our picks and 1-2 of Chriss/Bender/Warren+fillers if needed. There should be a LOT of good players who will be RFA/FA. That could be quite a leap come 2018-2019 season.

[Walt_Uoob]

Maybe the Cavs would be willing to hedge their bets at PG because Rose, IT, and Bled are all fairly inexpensive (and injury prone). So say they do the existing Boston trade and also send us Shumpert and Frye and BRK 18 pick in exchange for Bledsoe and both MIA picks. Cavs save even more money, pick up an additional pick, and also get Bledsoe, and if Brooklyn has a decent season and/or MAI under-performs they might only be moving back a handful of spots in the 18 draft. And Bledsoe would still be tradeable for them if IT comes back relatively soon and/or there is friction between the three guards. For us, we're taking on salary and giving up Bledsoe and the MIA 21 pick just for the ability to move up from MIA's pick to BRK's next year, so it's a pretty steep price, but we know the MIA pick won't be top-7 (existing protection) and there's a good chance the BRK pick will be. Would y'all do that or something like it?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Maybe the Cavs would be willing to hedge their bets at PG because Rose, IT, and Bled are all fairly inexpensive (and injury prone). So say they do the existing Boston trade and also send us Shumpert and Frye and BRK 18 pick in exchange for Bledsoe and both MIA picks. Cavs save even more money, pick up an additional pick, and also get Bledsoe, and if Brooklyn has a decent season and/or MAI under-performs they might only be moving back a handful of spots in the 18 draft. And Bledsoe would still be tradeable for them if IT comes back relatively soon and/or there is friction between the three guards. For us, we're taking on salary and giving up Bledsoe and the MIA 21 pick just for the ability to move up from MIA's pick to BRK's next year, so it's a pretty steep price, but we know the MIA pick won't be top-7 (existing protection) and there's a good chance the BRK pick will be. Would y'all do that or something like it?

I don't think the Nets pick is worth both Miami picks. It's close, but I don't think so. Because these kinds of picks are rarely traded anymore, and stuff happens, and the future's tough to predict. Brooklyn could be okay, especially out east, where a tank race might take effect earlier than usual.

I think it might make more sense to try to secure some a future Cleveland FRP and a swap right wrt the BKN pick, in exchange for facilitating whatevs. Nothing makes sense unless Lebron and Bledsoe want EB in Cleveland. I view that as unlikely, but I wouldn't know.

You could S&T Len to CLE for Zizek or to BOS for Smart or a highly protected 1st; send Isiah to the team of his choice (basically, anywhere in the league... Denver? Milwaukee?). Phoenix could volunteer to accept mediocre vets to fill out our bench.

Ulis/Booker/Jackson and whoever steps up at 4-5. Works for me.

[NavLDO]

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

"...and again, really, just to aid us towards getting back on the winning track, then attracting more stars."

So like I've stated multiple times; this isn't about Kyrie, the better basketball player. It's about Kyrie, "USA Basketball" player and Star player who can attract others to come to the Suns. Again, as I've said, sure, Booker is nice. Now, let's start Kyrie AND Booker, and now maybe other stars are interested in what we are building down here in the the VotS.

For example, (and I already know how this is going to blow up in my face, but I'll venture it anyway) right now, would you trade Warren and an Unprotected 1st for Wiggins? I bet some on here might. Why? Is it because Wiggins is actually that much BETTER than Warren? Actually, no he isn't, but his name is, so...

I am actually with you in believing that Kyrie does not bring an 'Unprotected 1st' worth of talent with him over Bledsoe, but he's 2 years younger, and has a bigger name. That's it. That really is the only reason I would go after Kyrie with Bledsoe; he doesn't bring a whole heck of a lot of wins with him, IMO. Just a chance to attract more talent.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Bledsoe/Dudley/Suns' Unprotected 2018...for...Kyrie/Shumpert.

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

"...and again, really, just to aid us towards getting back on the winning track, then attracting more stars."

So like I've stated multiple times; this isn't about Kyrie, the better basketball player. It's about Kyrie, "USA Basketball" player and Star player who can attract others to come to the Suns. Again, as I've said, sure, Booker is nice. Now, let's start Kyrie AND Booker, and now maybe other stars are interested in what we are building down here in the the VotS.

For example, (and I already know how this is going to blow up in my face, but I'll venture it anyway) right now, would you trade Warren and an Unprotected 1st for Wiggins? I bet some on here might. Why? Is it because Wiggins is actually that much BETTER than Warren? Actually, no he isn't, but his name is, so...

I am actually with you in believing that Kyrie does not bring an 'Unprotected 1st' worth of talent with him over Bledsoe, but he's 2 years younger, and has a bigger name. That's it. That really is the only reason I would go after Kyrie with Bledsoe; he doesn't bring a whole heck of a lot of wins with him, IMO. Just a chance to attract more talent.

Can't a guy honestly and reasonably prefer to watch Ulis, Booker and Jackson try to carry a team and continuing to develop organically, through them and the other young guys and the future picks?

I don't want to watch Kyrie Irving play basketball here. Just don't. So... yeah!

[collidingNeurons]

Personally i have a hard time trading Bledsoe straight up for Kyrie but if you throw in an Unprotected pick it isnt worth it. Kyrie does one thing and that is score period. he isnt a passer, defender or a player that makes others better. There is no reason to ever think of parting with unprotected pick for that type of player.

"...and again, really, just to aid us towards getting back on the winning track, then attracting more stars."

So like I've stated multiple times; this isn't about Kyrie, the better basketball player. It's about Kyrie, "USA Basketball" player and Star player who can attract others to come to the Suns. Again, as I've said, sure, Booker is nice. Now, let's start Kyrie AND Booker, and now maybe other stars are interested in what we are building down here in the the VotS.

For example, (and I already know how this is going to blow up in my face, but I'll venture it anyway) right now, would you trade Warren and an Unprotected 1st for Wiggins? I bet some on here might. Why? Is it because Wiggins is actually that much BETTER than Warren? Actually, no he isn't, but his name is, so...

I am actually with you in believing that Kyrie does not bring an 'Unprotected 1st' worth of talent with him over Bledsoe, but he's 2 years younger, and has a bigger name. That's it. That really is the only reason I would go after Kyrie with Bledsoe; he doesn't bring a whole heck of a lot of wins with him, IMO. Just a chance to attract more talent.

Can't a guy honestly and reasonably prefer to watch Ulis, Booker and Jackson try to carry a team and continuing to develop organically, through them and the other young guys and the future picks?

I don't want to watch Kyrie Irving play basketball here. Just don't. So... yeah!

I'm with you on that, personally i'd prefer even just a chance of any of the top 5 in next year's draft then Kyrie alone, much less losing that and more for a chance to watch Kyrie on the Suns